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I always dreamed
about Cherry Grove.

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It was a gay Shangri-La.

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We arrived at the
dock and I looked down

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and I saw all of these
beautiful men in speedos

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and high heels and I thought
I had died and gone to heaven.

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Cherry Grove was
always the best kept secret

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in the whole gay world
for decades and decades.

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The first time I came
to Cherry Grove

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was the summer of 1943.

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I wasn't born yet, but my
mother came all that summer.

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As a kid I came over here.

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The family had property
here in 19-,

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it was the end of World War
II, back in late 1944, 1945.

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I first came here in 1951

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maybe for a day or a weekend.

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1954.

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1955.

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1956.

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In the summer of 1957.

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1957, I was 20 years old.

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1958.

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Probably in '58 or '59.

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About 1961, '62,
it was about '63.

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I came in 1963, and
I fell in love with it.

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I came for my
first visit in 1968.

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The late 60's.

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First time, 1970.

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1972, I was 17.

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Early to mid '70s.

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1977.

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1977.

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I remember because that was the
year after the bicentennial.

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1982.

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1983.

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I believe that I first
visited Cherry Grove in 1999.

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In 2002.

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I came the summer after 9/11.

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2004.

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My first day trip was in 2005,

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and my first girlfriend
brought me,

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and it was incredible,
and really eye-opening.

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I had just come out as gay,

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and it was really life-changing
for me to arrive here.

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One common
story is that there were

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pirates on Cherry Grove.

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- Recently?
- No.

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Pirates, recently!

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That would be fun.

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Years ago.

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I would imagine there could be.

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Well, there used to be
shipwrecks along the coast,

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and were there pirates?

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Possibly, Fire Island
got its name by people

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that were shipwrecked
here in the early days

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and would light fires
on the bay coast

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to tell the people on
the mainland that

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they were here,
and they were stranded.

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They claim it was
called Fire Island because

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the pirates would set
fires on the island,

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they'd lure the ships in and
then murder

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the ships and steal their goods,

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that's one of the lores.

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Charlie Dickerson
was a World War,

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let's see, World War I veteran,

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and he had a wonderful
series of short stories,

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and one of the stories
that he had was

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of a Mr. Smith, who was
supposedly here

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in the 1600s, who was a pirate,

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and who lived someplace
in this area

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of Fire Island, we don't
know exactly where.

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They say there is
treasure on Fire Island.

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People through the years
have come up with coins.

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When I used to take
my walks every morning,

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which I can't do anymore,
but I would always

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be looking for the chest
of coins or something,

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but never found it,
and no one else has,

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as far as I know.

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When there's fog
at night, the pirates come

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into the Meat Rack out of
the fog and murder people.

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Have you ever seen one?

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Yes, I did,
but he didn't kill me.

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In the old, old days,
when there was no wagons

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and no people, and there
were just people over

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here building, and I
guess they were,

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I guess they would harvest
hay over here and ship it off.

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I think that was one of the
things that they did do,

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and in order to do that,
they had to have horses

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to take the carts of hay
to the, to the boats,

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and there were a couple
of guys over here

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who had brought a
horse over on a barge,

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and the horse died, and
they didn't know what to do

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with the horse, so they
were just sitting around

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drinking quite a bit,
wondering what to do with it,

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and they decided
they'd better bury it,

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so they dig a hole, and
they bury the horse,

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but they didn't dig the
hole deep enough,

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and the four legs were
sticking up out of the,

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out of the earth, so these
guys just sawed the legs off.

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My grandparents first
came to Cherry Grove,

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like, 1918, and it was
very rural at the time,

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and they rented for six years,

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and they realized that they
had discovered paradise.

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So, they bought the property
where my house is now,

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and we've been here ever since.

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Sayville families built
the original cottages

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and brought them over
and bought huge

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stretches of the community,
the Duryeas

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and the Greens, and the Gerards,

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their family names,
and they bought

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whole stretches from
the bay to the ocean.

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My aunt owned property
here, and we came over

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to help her open up the houses
and close up the houses,

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so as a little kid, it
was mostly off season.

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My jobs were to clean
the chimneys,

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because the kerosene
was the only,

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there was no electric,
the only way of lighting

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at night was the
kerosene, and so,

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I cleaned the chimneys, I
got to dig the garbage holes.

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Over here, we had
outside burning,

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the west end,
if you dig in your yard,

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all of a sudden,
you'll hit crunch,

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because you'll be
hitting old, rusty cans

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or whatnot, the things
that were left over

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from back in the earlier days,

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before we had garbage service.

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When I first came here,
we did not have electricity,

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we did not have running water,

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we had to pump water up to
tanks on top of the house,

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and we'd all be at the beach.

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The first one home
would have a hot shower,

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the rest of us would not.

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I just find the fact that
there was no electricity

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until the '60s very interesting,

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I can't imagine living
without electricity.

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I can't imagine putting
on a drag show with

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a generator in here in
the community house.

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Can you imagine putting
your makeup onto that?

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Mary, some of them
are beasts as it is,

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can you imagine without
lights what they look like?

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The fire department
consisted of everyone.

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There was a post with a
big, round ring on it,

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which was a railroad
tie bent into a circle,

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with a hammer hanging,
and if there was a fire,

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you would ring this gong.

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Living with my family,
it was kind of touching,

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though I was only, like, 23.

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So, we would go out to
Ocean Beach for the day

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and dance at the hotel,
and then we moved

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to Ocean Bay, and I rented
there for two years.

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I loved the whole
idea of Fire Island.

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I don't think I
knew what it was.

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I think I, I, I knew that
it was a queer community,

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and I was a kid from
the south Bronx who

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knew I was gay, but didn't
know what that meant.

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It was just different than
anyplace that

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I probably have
ever been, and it was.

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I stayed with Dick Hall
and Michael DeSantis,

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and I stayed there about
four or five weekends,

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but I was a guest that
never wanted to leave.

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We would find Captain
Hawkins, who had keys to houses,

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and we'd get together and
he'd find a house for us

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for 20 bucks for the weekend.

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A lot of people stopped using
their houses in the summer,

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and that's when the
rentals started.

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Next generation were
the local people who

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inherited the houses, began
to sell them to the renters.

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Maggie and I rented with
Tom Holden and a bunch

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of the guys, and our share
each for the whole summer,

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starting in May through
September, was 125 dollars.

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I met a guy, and he
knew about Cherry Grove.

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I hadn't even heard
of the place,

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so we came out
here for a weekend,

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and we stayed at the hotel.

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And there was an awful lot
of dancing in those days.

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There was nothing
but men out here.

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You had one or
two women, I think,

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but essentially,
it was nothing but a mass

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of young men in
their 20s and 30s,

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and coming out here

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with a boyfriend was like going

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to a whorehouse with your wife.

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Were women
allowed to dance together?

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No, no more than guys were.

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So, what was the policy?

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The policy was, then,
when the bartender whistled

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or Duffy, himself did,
the women would quickly

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find a male partner
and get up and dance.

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It was the same in the city.

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Like, up at the Ice
Palace, they had a jukebox,

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and when dancing, you
had a dance with maybe

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three guys and one girl.

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There always had to be a
girl in the dancing group,

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00:11:56,549 --> 00:11:59,302
and if the cops came
in, the lights went on,

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and then, right away,
it stopped,

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or you just stayed
dancin' with the girl.

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I've been in the
shows since 1955.

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It's 60 years on the calendar,

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00:12:17,696 --> 00:12:20,740
but I've been performing
for 61 years

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00:12:20,782 --> 00:12:22,992
in the, this is my 61st season.

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It was very hard
at the beginning,

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00:12:27,956 --> 00:12:32,669
because people, someone,
I'm not even gonna mention,

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called me The Singing Jew,

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and then there was,
there weren't that many

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00:12:38,717 --> 00:12:40,468
Jewish people out here then,

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00:12:40,510 --> 00:12:42,971
but I bought my
house early on, anyway.

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00:12:43,013 --> 00:12:47,225
But there was somebody who was,

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00:12:47,267 --> 00:12:50,145
he owned a house on the ocean,

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00:12:50,186 --> 00:12:53,690
he was very wealthy, big shot,

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00:12:53,732 --> 00:12:55,900
with people around
him all the time.

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They came to the theater,
and I was in a show,

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00:12:58,987 --> 00:13:02,449
and they were sitting
in the first row,

213
00:13:02,490 --> 00:13:05,744
and when I started
to sing, they all put

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their newspapers
up in front of their face

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00:13:10,081 --> 00:13:13,043
and I stopped the song,
and I ran across

216
00:13:13,084 --> 00:13:16,296
the stage, and I
grabbed the newspapers,

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00:13:16,338 --> 00:13:18,048
and I threw it at them,

218
00:13:19,132 --> 00:13:21,551
and the audience went wild,

219
00:13:21,593 --> 00:13:24,012
and then I started
my song all over again.

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00:13:26,139 --> 00:13:29,100
♪ Keep your sweeties,
I'll eat my Wheaties ♪

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00:13:29,142 --> 00:13:32,020
♪ With an all-American boy ♪

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00:13:46,701 --> 00:13:48,203
♪ Soccer, baseball,
tennis, hockey ♪

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00:13:48,244 --> 00:13:50,163
♪ Let 'em play ball ♪

224
00:13:50,205 --> 00:13:52,165
♪ Gino, Tester, Slugger, Rocky ♪

225
00:13:52,207 --> 00:13:53,708
♪ I love 'em all ♪

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00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:55,585
♪ Tease us, read us ♪

227
00:13:55,627 --> 00:13:57,212
♪ I'm hot for Adidas ♪

228
00:13:57,253 --> 00:14:01,049
♪ On an all-American boy ♪

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00:14:03,468 --> 00:14:04,719
When I was in high school,

230
00:14:04,761 --> 00:14:08,056
my best friend told me
that he saw in a magazine

231
00:14:08,098 --> 00:14:11,601
a picture of two boys
holding hands on a beach

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00:14:11,643 --> 00:14:13,103
in a place called Cherry Grove,

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00:14:13,144 --> 00:14:15,730
and I was very
interested in that,

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00:14:15,772 --> 00:14:19,818
because I was gay,
and didn't know it,

235
00:14:19,859 --> 00:14:22,404
but I knew that I would
be very comfortable

236
00:14:22,445 --> 00:14:25,156
and very at home
in a place like that,

237
00:14:25,198 --> 00:14:27,784
so I went to the store
where the magazines were,

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00:14:27,826 --> 00:14:30,036
and sure enough, there
was a picture of two boys

239
00:14:30,078 --> 00:14:33,039
on the beach in their
little bathing suits,

240
00:14:33,081 --> 00:14:34,708
going to the water,
holding hands.

241
00:14:45,176 --> 00:14:47,095
In the '60s, it was amazing,

242
00:14:47,137 --> 00:14:49,806
'cause you just get people
coming to Cherry Grove

243
00:14:49,848 --> 00:14:51,766
from all over,
all over the world,

244
00:14:51,808 --> 00:14:53,184
just to meet other gay people.

245
00:14:56,312 --> 00:14:59,232
Hello, Dolly was blaring
out of all of the windows.

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00:15:02,694 --> 00:15:05,155
I had heard that
it was a gay party town,

247
00:15:05,196 --> 00:15:08,616
and that it was very free
and promiscuous and fun.

248
00:15:08,658 --> 00:15:11,327
To me, Fire Island
was sex and booze.

249
00:15:11,369 --> 00:15:15,498
That, you know, could have
as much liquor as I wanted,

250
00:15:15,540 --> 00:15:17,167
have as much sex as I wanted,

251
00:15:17,208 --> 00:15:20,128
if I wanted it, was
extraordinary.

252
00:15:20,170 --> 00:15:22,589
I was scared shit of
it, in plain English,

253
00:15:22,630 --> 00:15:26,051
'cause I heard this was
an island of all gays,

254
00:15:26,092 --> 00:15:29,179
and it was a sinful city,
supposedly,

255
00:15:29,220 --> 00:15:30,972
you know, you hear
all these things.

256
00:15:37,437 --> 00:15:38,897
What is the Meat Rack?

257
00:15:38,938 --> 00:15:40,482
What is the Meat Rack?

258
00:15:40,523 --> 00:15:41,358
Well, there's many ways you
could describe the Meat Rack.

259
00:15:41,399 --> 00:15:43,943
The Meat Rack was a sex haven.

260
00:15:43,985 --> 00:15:47,238
We'd all start getting
prepared to go out

261
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,241
to the Rack about 10:00 o'clock.

262
00:15:50,283 --> 00:15:55,288
You'd do all sorts of
cleansing and gargling.

263
00:15:57,165 --> 00:16:00,794
Filing your fingernails.

264
00:16:02,087 --> 00:16:03,755
Getting everything together,

265
00:16:03,797 --> 00:16:07,717
the poppers, the handkerchief,
before you went out.

266
00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:10,345
I don't think I can really
say what the Meat Rack

267
00:16:10,387 --> 00:16:12,931
is because I have
never been there.

268
00:16:12,972 --> 00:16:15,183
There's a little
path that goes through,

269
00:16:15,225 --> 00:16:17,310
because people who
wanna go from the Grove

270
00:16:17,352 --> 00:16:20,355
to the Pines use
this same trail.

271
00:16:20,397 --> 00:16:22,440
Such a little trail that
people can

272
00:16:22,482 --> 00:16:24,317
go off and be alone.

273
00:16:24,359 --> 00:16:25,860
Some people prefer
not to be alone,

274
00:16:25,902 --> 00:16:27,320
they like to show everything.

275
00:16:27,362 --> 00:16:30,990
I don't like that
term, and I never have.

276
00:16:31,032 --> 00:16:32,784
You know, it's like, Meat Rack.

277
00:16:32,826 --> 00:16:36,204
Before I came out, I
heard the Ice Palace,

278
00:16:36,246 --> 00:16:38,456
and I thought it was,
like, a freezer,

279
00:16:38,498 --> 00:16:40,041
and then I heard the Meat Rack,

280
00:16:40,083 --> 00:16:42,794
and I literally thought it was
a place where they hung meat.

281
00:16:42,836 --> 00:16:45,213
The Meat Rack's where we
tell people who come to visit,

282
00:16:45,255 --> 00:16:47,007
"Don't go there unless
you're looking

283
00:16:47,048 --> 00:16:50,427
"for a homosexual experience."

284
00:16:50,468 --> 00:16:51,886
It's like a circus.

285
00:16:51,928 --> 00:16:55,348
You see all different
types of things goin' on.

286
00:16:55,390 --> 00:17:00,270
It's known for
havin' people that

287
00:17:00,311 --> 00:17:03,189
perform sexual acts.

288
00:17:04,441 --> 00:17:06,526
I think mostly at night,
although I've caught

289
00:17:06,568 --> 00:17:08,236
a glimpse in the daytime.

290
00:17:08,278 --> 00:17:10,321
When I first came in the '70s,

291
00:17:10,363 --> 00:17:14,117
it was the time of,
you know, liberation,

292
00:17:14,159 --> 00:17:17,245
of course, and free sex.

293
00:17:17,287 --> 00:17:19,265
When I was younger, I
used to go to the Belvedere

294
00:17:19,289 --> 00:17:22,584
and walk up to the Belvedere,
thinking I was going

295
00:17:22,625 --> 00:17:24,878
to the Rack, and I
wouldn't have the balls to

296
00:17:24,919 --> 00:17:26,504
pass the lions.

297
00:17:26,546 --> 00:17:29,924
I would turn around
and go back home.

298
00:17:33,428 --> 00:17:35,680
One Sunday morning, I
came out of the house,

299
00:17:35,722 --> 00:17:40,060
and there was a guy
named Mitty Malleus,

300
00:17:41,269 --> 00:17:44,230
and I go, "Hi, Mitty, how is
everything,

301
00:17:44,272 --> 00:17:47,859
"how was the Rack last night?"

302
00:17:47,901 --> 00:17:51,071
"Oh, May, you don't know
what I went through."

303
00:17:51,112 --> 00:17:53,490
And I said, "What?"

304
00:17:53,531 --> 00:17:56,409
She says, "There I was,
working on a nice,

305
00:17:56,451 --> 00:18:00,497
"big piece of meat,
and some ditzy queen

306
00:18:00,538 --> 00:18:04,084
"went and pulled
it out of my mouth,

307
00:18:04,125 --> 00:18:07,504
"so I bit him on the hand."

308
00:18:07,545 --> 00:18:09,964
I said, "Oh," I said, "He's
probably dead

309
00:18:10,006 --> 00:18:13,051
"by now, with their
portion in you."

310
00:18:13,093 --> 00:18:16,888
And, later in the day,
I met another friend,

311
00:18:16,930 --> 00:18:19,224
Daphne, and I said,
"Daphne, how was the

312
00:18:19,265 --> 00:18:21,476
"Meat Rack last night?"

313
00:18:21,518 --> 00:18:26,064
"Oh, it was wonderful, but
some ditzy bitch bit me."

314
00:18:26,106 --> 00:18:29,526
And I said, so I says,
"I think you better

315
00:18:29,567 --> 00:18:31,194
"go to the doctor
and get a shot."

316
00:18:32,445 --> 00:18:34,197
We did go there once
when we were living

317
00:18:34,239 --> 00:18:36,282
here in the winter, and
it was the dead of winter.

318
00:18:36,324 --> 00:18:38,660
It was snow, the bay was
frozen, there was snow

319
00:18:38,702 --> 00:18:41,413
on the ground, and we
went into the Meat Rack

320
00:18:41,454 --> 00:18:44,457
expecting to find out
what was there,

321
00:18:44,499 --> 00:18:46,543
it was a pretty wooded area,

322
00:18:46,584 --> 00:18:49,337
and we were amazed in
January, there were a couple

323
00:18:49,379 --> 00:18:52,465
of men in there, just
mind-boggling.

324
00:18:59,264 --> 00:19:00,825
I know what it's like
out here in the winter,

325
00:19:00,849 --> 00:19:02,726
because I've been
out here in the winter.

326
00:19:02,767 --> 00:19:04,769
I spent, actually,
Bobby and I spent

327
00:19:04,811 --> 00:19:06,146
several Christmases here.

328
00:19:06,187 --> 00:19:08,356
We always used to spend
Thanksgiving,

329
00:19:08,398 --> 00:19:10,400
but when his mother was
alive, we were taking

330
00:19:10,442 --> 00:19:12,569
care of her, so we
had to go back,

331
00:19:12,610 --> 00:19:15,488
but we did spend a couple
of Christmases here

332
00:19:15,530 --> 00:19:19,451
after that, and it was
absolutely breathtaking,

333
00:19:19,492 --> 00:19:22,203
beautiful, and lovely,
with no people.

334
00:19:22,245 --> 00:19:25,206
It was heaven, real heaven.

335
00:20:15,757 --> 00:20:17,133
There was this whole myth that

336
00:20:17,175 --> 00:20:18,444
there was something
called The Donut...

337
00:20:18,468 --> 00:20:19,844
- Never.
- Rack.

338
00:20:19,886 --> 00:20:21,554
- Never.
- So, it didn't...

339
00:20:21,596 --> 00:20:22,596
No, no.

340
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,308
I heard that there
was a Donut Rack,

341
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:29,521
but I don't know if
it was true or not.

342
00:20:29,562 --> 00:20:32,774
It certainly is a legend
'round here that there was.

343
00:20:32,816 --> 00:20:34,567
I don't think that's true,

344
00:20:34,609 --> 00:20:36,528
'cause I'm not a lesbian.

345
00:20:36,569 --> 00:20:40,073
I heard about it also,
and there were several

346
00:20:40,115 --> 00:20:42,534
women who would
exchange partners

347
00:20:42,575 --> 00:20:45,578
after a party,
but that was that.

348
00:20:45,620 --> 00:20:49,332
The Meat Rack was on,
towards the Pines,

349
00:20:49,374 --> 00:20:52,419
and the Donut Rack was
towards Sailor's Haven.

350
00:20:52,460 --> 00:20:54,045
That's where they said it was,

351
00:20:54,087 --> 00:20:56,464
but I don't believe it,
and I don't remember,

352
00:20:56,506 --> 00:21:00,176
I mean, I remember the
statements about it,

353
00:21:00,218 --> 00:21:02,554
but I don't think it ever
happened.

354
00:21:02,595 --> 00:21:05,390
Lesbians don't cruise publicly.

355
00:21:05,432 --> 00:21:08,560
No, there was never
a Donut Rack.

356
00:21:08,601 --> 00:21:11,021
There were maybe
24 lesbians in place

357
00:21:11,062 --> 00:21:12,272
when we were there.

358
00:21:19,571 --> 00:21:21,948
I had a lover who was
trying to impress me,

359
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:25,410
so he was, they were
having the Bartender Awards

360
00:21:25,452 --> 00:21:27,704
out here on Fire Island
back in the day.

361
00:21:27,746 --> 00:21:29,956
They used to have Bartender's
Awards every month,

362
00:21:29,998 --> 00:21:31,475
and they used to
travel bar to bar and

363
00:21:31,499 --> 00:21:33,501
have this big parties,
and it was here

364
00:21:33,543 --> 00:21:35,754
at the Ice Palace, so
he rented a limousine,

365
00:21:35,795 --> 00:21:39,966
and stocked with
liquor and weed,

366
00:21:40,008 --> 00:21:42,135
and all kinds of stuff,
and we got in the limo

367
00:21:42,177 --> 00:21:45,221
and drove to Fire Island,
and went to the Pines

368
00:21:45,263 --> 00:21:49,434
by mistake, and back then,

369
00:21:49,476 --> 00:21:51,895
the taxi here on the
island was in a dune buggy

370
00:21:51,936 --> 00:21:54,898
as opposed to boats, so we
had to walk to the ocean

371
00:21:54,939 --> 00:21:57,692
and call a dune buggy
and travel along this

372
00:21:57,734 --> 00:22:00,320
beautiful beach
in the full moon.

373
00:22:00,362 --> 00:22:02,739
It was absolutely magical,

374
00:22:02,781 --> 00:22:05,241
and then we landed
at the Cherry Grove,

375
00:22:05,283 --> 00:22:06,826
and walked up into
the Ice Palace

376
00:22:06,868 --> 00:22:08,870
to this massive drag show.

377
00:22:08,912 --> 00:22:11,790
It was just a night
I'll never forget,

378
00:22:11,831 --> 00:22:13,750
it was just spectacular,
and right away,

379
00:22:13,792 --> 00:22:15,835
I knew this was
the place for me.

380
00:22:27,180 --> 00:22:30,517
You know, drag shows
were really nonexistent

381
00:22:30,558 --> 00:22:32,769
anywhere else, and the
people that came over

382
00:22:32,811 --> 00:22:35,730
to the shows,
this place was mobbed.

383
00:22:35,772 --> 00:22:39,025
Even back in the early
'60s, I worked at Pat's

384
00:22:39,067 --> 00:22:40,902
Restaurant for a while,
and the people

385
00:22:40,944 --> 00:22:42,779
would come down
from Ocean Beach,

386
00:22:42,821 --> 00:22:44,906
and they'd all
sit at a big table,

387
00:22:44,948 --> 00:22:47,701
and they would keep
saying, "When are the boys

388
00:22:47,742 --> 00:22:49,369
"coming in with
their funny hats,"

389
00:22:49,411 --> 00:22:51,496
and I would make
up stories, and I'd say,

390
00:22:51,538 --> 00:22:52,765
"Oh, they're not
coming in tonight,

391
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:54,350
"there's a big party
down at the other end

392
00:22:54,374 --> 00:22:56,751
"of the beach, so nobody
will be in tonight,"

393
00:22:56,793 --> 00:22:58,688
'cause they would sit there
for two or three hours,

394
00:22:58,712 --> 00:23:01,131
waiting to see people
that were stranger,

395
00:23:01,172 --> 00:23:03,591
I guess, then they'd ever seen.

396
00:23:11,975 --> 00:23:16,646
There was that feeling
that this was our place.

397
00:23:17,814 --> 00:23:20,734
And, back then,
it was very important,

398
00:23:20,775 --> 00:23:22,003
because we didn't have a place,

399
00:23:22,027 --> 00:23:25,113
and we didn't feel like
we fit in anywhere.

400
00:23:34,372 --> 00:23:36,624
This was before
the Stonewall Riots,

401
00:23:36,666 --> 00:23:38,626
and I worked the
Stonewall before the riots

402
00:23:38,668 --> 00:23:43,214
in 1968, so it was
illegal to be gay,

403
00:23:43,256 --> 00:23:46,593
and so we would come
out here to Fire Island

404
00:23:46,634 --> 00:23:48,487
to meet other gay people
and everything without,

405
00:23:48,511 --> 00:23:50,472
'cause we used to
meet in the streets

406
00:23:50,513 --> 00:23:52,682
in Manhattan,
and three or four people

407
00:23:52,724 --> 00:23:54,684
would be congregating
on a corner,

408
00:23:54,726 --> 00:23:56,644
talking friends,
and we'd be arrested

409
00:23:56,686 --> 00:23:58,813
and brought to jail for
homosexual,

410
00:23:58,855 --> 00:24:01,566
we couldn't congregate
on a corner.

411
00:24:03,902 --> 00:24:06,154
The oppression against
the gay community,

412
00:24:06,196 --> 00:24:08,239
the lesbian and gay
community, was so severe

413
00:24:08,281 --> 00:24:10,283
that you couldn't
tell your family,

414
00:24:10,325 --> 00:24:11,409
you couldn't tell your job,

415
00:24:11,451 --> 00:24:13,495
you had to be
constantly closeted,

416
00:24:13,536 --> 00:24:15,413
so the importance of
Cherry Grove was that

417
00:24:15,455 --> 00:24:18,917
it was a safe haven where
people could come and be gay.

418
00:24:18,958 --> 00:24:21,878
Hold hands with your
boyfriend and hang out

419
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,464
with other homosexuals,
as they called us,

420
00:24:24,506 --> 00:24:27,717
and I think, in that,
it helped to create

421
00:24:27,759 --> 00:24:30,929
a community that didn't
necessarily

422
00:24:30,970 --> 00:24:33,932
exist in the city, for instance.

423
00:24:33,973 --> 00:24:36,976
I mean, the major communities
were either private,

424
00:24:37,018 --> 00:24:40,021
upper-class communities,
or the bars.

425
00:24:40,063 --> 00:24:42,732
You know, there was always
a network of gay bars,

426
00:24:42,774 --> 00:24:44,859
usually owned by the
Mafia, back in the '40s,

427
00:24:44,901 --> 00:24:46,736
'50s, and '60s, and '70s,

428
00:24:46,778 --> 00:24:48,571
and that's all there was.

429
00:24:48,613 --> 00:24:50,448
It was a very
different world back then,

430
00:24:50,490 --> 00:24:51,574
in the gay world, you know,

431
00:24:51,616 --> 00:24:53,034
we were still hiding.

432
00:24:53,076 --> 00:24:54,637
I was still jumping
out of bathroom windows

433
00:24:54,661 --> 00:24:57,455
from gay clubs that
were being raided,

434
00:24:57,497 --> 00:25:00,959
so the fact that this existed,

435
00:25:01,001 --> 00:25:03,920
literally, 55 miles
out of New York City

436
00:25:03,962 --> 00:25:06,715
seemed like paradise.

437
00:25:15,598 --> 00:25:17,934
Maggie and I always
palled around with much

438
00:25:17,976 --> 00:25:22,230
older people, you know,
and they just

439
00:25:22,272 --> 00:25:25,442
welcomed us, as I said,
Natalia brought me up,

440
00:25:25,483 --> 00:25:28,153
and she was 35
years older than I.

441
00:25:28,194 --> 00:25:31,406
A very good friend, I met
Janet Flanner through her,

442
00:25:31,448 --> 00:25:34,534
and a lot of the
literary groups.

443
00:25:34,576 --> 00:25:37,746
Maggie and I gave a party
when our house was finished.

444
00:25:37,787 --> 00:25:40,415
Natalia Danesi Murray
called us and said,

445
00:25:40,457 --> 00:25:43,043
"Darling, I'm not
going to be here,

446
00:25:43,084 --> 00:25:45,879
"I'm in Rome, but someone
is renting my house,

447
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,881
"and I want you to go
over and invite him

448
00:25:47,922 --> 00:25:50,759
"to your party," and I said,
"Who's that?"

449
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,011
And she said, "Tennessee
Williams," and I said,

450
00:25:53,053 --> 00:25:55,221
"Oh my God, how wonderful."

451
00:25:55,263 --> 00:25:57,515
Went over the night
of the party and said,

452
00:25:57,557 --> 00:26:00,769
"Mr. Williams, would you
like to come to our party,

453
00:26:00,810 --> 00:26:02,729
"and it's our first night?"

454
00:26:02,771 --> 00:26:06,232
"I would love to,
and please call me T."

455
00:26:06,274 --> 00:26:07,901
He was the first one to show up,

456
00:26:07,942 --> 00:26:09,903
and the last one to leave.

457
00:26:09,944 --> 00:26:12,989
During the evening, people
would come over and say,

458
00:26:13,031 --> 00:26:14,699
"Is that who I think it is?"

459
00:26:14,741 --> 00:26:16,951
And I'd say, "Who do
you think it is?"

460
00:26:16,993 --> 00:26:18,495
"Tennessee Williams,"
and I'd say,

461
00:26:18,536 --> 00:26:19,788
"Well, just keep it quiet."

462
00:26:19,829 --> 00:26:21,831
There was a tremendous emphasis

463
00:26:21,873 --> 00:26:25,585
on home parties, house
parties, themed parties.

464
00:26:25,627 --> 00:26:27,271
Well, when I first
came here, there were these

465
00:26:27,295 --> 00:26:30,173
huge costume parties,
and, in fact,

466
00:26:30,215 --> 00:26:32,342
our house, there were
no trees at the time,

467
00:26:32,384 --> 00:26:35,470
it was just sand, and
they once had a party,

468
00:26:35,512 --> 00:26:39,099
and they had a rope
going from Belvedere

469
00:26:39,140 --> 00:26:42,644
into our yard, and some
queen came as Peter Pan,

470
00:26:42,686 --> 00:26:44,479
but she got stuck in the middle

471
00:26:44,521 --> 00:26:46,940
for about an hour, screaming.

472
00:26:46,981 --> 00:26:49,859
Someone arrived in a
barge shaped like swan,

473
00:26:49,901 --> 00:26:51,778
pulled by eight muscle men.

474
00:26:51,820 --> 00:26:54,280
They were really,
very elaborate.

475
00:26:54,322 --> 00:26:56,574
There was an MGM party,
people would come

476
00:26:56,616 --> 00:26:59,285
as their favorite star, one
person I remember coming,

477
00:26:59,327 --> 00:27:01,705
being covered in glitter,
and had dry ice underneath

478
00:27:01,746 --> 00:27:03,123
so there was smoke rising.

479
00:27:03,164 --> 00:27:08,044
I saw Sarah Vaughan here
at the Club Atlantique,

480
00:27:08,837 --> 00:27:10,964
which is the Sandpiper.

481
00:27:11,006 --> 00:27:14,843
I saw, Della Reese
was at the hotel.

482
00:27:14,884 --> 00:27:17,679
We always went every, on
Friday and Saturday evenings,

483
00:27:17,721 --> 00:27:19,931
to the Le Monstrum,
we'd stand outside.

484
00:27:19,973 --> 00:27:22,892
There were wicker chairs
and couches on the side,

485
00:27:22,934 --> 00:27:24,561
and we both had wicker row,

486
00:27:24,602 --> 00:27:27,397
and we'd sit there, and
there'd probably be,

487
00:27:27,439 --> 00:27:29,983
like, 30 or 40 of us
standing around outside,

488
00:27:30,025 --> 00:27:32,986
and there was one guy
there that we called

489
00:27:33,028 --> 00:27:36,448
Popper Bill, and he
opened his vest,

490
00:27:36,489 --> 00:27:38,616
you'd talk to him, he had
all these little pockets

491
00:27:38,658 --> 00:27:42,328
in it, with all these
amyl nitrate and poppers

492
00:27:42,370 --> 00:27:44,122
and things there,
that you just bought 'em

493
00:27:44,164 --> 00:27:45,623
off him there, on the spot,

494
00:27:45,665 --> 00:27:48,043
and it was, like, wide open.

495
00:27:49,502 --> 00:27:51,022
How important
do you think Cherry Grove

496
00:27:51,046 --> 00:27:55,133
was to sexual liberation and
the LGBT movement in general?

497
00:27:56,468 --> 00:27:57,987
Well, I think it was
very important in terms

498
00:27:58,011 --> 00:28:00,013
of sexual liberation,
but it was absolutely

499
00:28:00,055 --> 00:28:02,474
missing from the gay
rights movement.

500
00:28:02,515 --> 00:28:05,852
Well, certainly, Cherry
Grove was gay liberation

501
00:28:05,894 --> 00:28:07,455
before it happened in the
city, there's no question

502
00:28:07,479 --> 00:28:08,998
about that, people came
out here from the city

503
00:28:09,022 --> 00:28:12,817
when they were living a
very confined gay life

504
00:28:12,859 --> 00:28:15,570
in the city, and you came
here and you were able

505
00:28:15,612 --> 00:28:18,698
to be gay or lesbian
on the walks,

506
00:28:18,740 --> 00:28:21,576
and you felt a kind
of wonderful relief

507
00:28:21,618 --> 00:28:24,704
from social pressures
you might be feeling

508
00:28:24,746 --> 00:28:28,833
at your job, or in any other
part of your life in the city.

509
00:28:28,875 --> 00:28:33,296
I suspect the Mattachine
Society and the people

510
00:28:34,172 --> 00:28:36,049
who were active in that type

511
00:28:36,091 --> 00:28:41,096
of movement,
and of course, Stonewall,

512
00:28:43,598 --> 00:28:48,728
was what led to gay liberation
more than Cherry Grove.

513
00:28:48,770 --> 00:28:52,023
I personally found the
residents of Cherry Grove

514
00:28:52,065 --> 00:28:54,526
wanted nothing to do
with the LGBT movement

515
00:28:54,567 --> 00:28:55,985
back in the '70s and '80s,

516
00:28:56,027 --> 00:28:58,988
they wanted to be complacent
in their little gay haven,

517
00:28:59,030 --> 00:29:02,033
so I personally
found it as a youth,

518
00:29:02,075 --> 00:29:04,160
gay youth back then,
that it was a challenge

519
00:29:04,202 --> 00:29:06,538
getting people involved
into the movement

520
00:29:06,579 --> 00:29:09,416
or wanting to do anything,
even with the AIDS crisis.

521
00:29:09,457 --> 00:29:12,043
They just wanted this to be
the perfect little haven.

522
00:29:12,085 --> 00:29:16,297
I think many famous people
stayed here and visited here.

523
00:29:16,339 --> 00:29:19,134
Gilbert and, you know,
Larry Kramer,

524
00:29:19,175 --> 00:29:21,302
and different people,
but as a community,

525
00:29:21,344 --> 00:29:23,972
I think that, individually,
people participated,

526
00:29:24,014 --> 00:29:25,682
but as a community, it did not.

527
00:29:30,061 --> 00:29:32,230
We were sitting on our
deck and saying, you know,

528
00:29:32,272 --> 00:29:33,690
"Why are gay people upset?

529
00:29:33,732 --> 00:29:37,235
"Everything's fine,"
and not realizing that,

530
00:29:37,277 --> 00:29:40,113
in a way, we were
in our little ghetto.

531
00:29:45,243 --> 00:29:47,746
I think it was very important,

532
00:29:47,787 --> 00:29:49,956
and I was then
involved with Sage,

533
00:29:49,998 --> 00:29:51,708
I was one of the
people who were found

534
00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:54,711
at the women's dances,
and the freedom

535
00:29:54,753 --> 00:29:57,839
that we had that night,
the very first dance,

536
00:29:57,881 --> 00:30:00,050
and all of it together,
Stonewall,

537
00:30:00,091 --> 00:30:03,136
and then the march in
Washington,

538
00:30:03,178 --> 00:30:06,139
for women, was very important.

539
00:30:12,979 --> 00:30:15,815
I had read about
Fire Island in a book

540
00:30:15,857 --> 00:30:18,777
when I was in middle
school or high school.

541
00:30:18,818 --> 00:30:20,236
The book was
called Rainbow Boys,

542
00:30:20,278 --> 00:30:23,656
and it was all about gay
men on the east coast,

543
00:30:23,698 --> 00:30:25,784
and they talked about
going to an island where

544
00:30:25,825 --> 00:30:26,743
everyone was gay,
and I was like,

545
00:30:26,785 --> 00:30:28,787
"This doesn't exist."

546
00:30:28,828 --> 00:30:30,997
When I first came to Cherry
Grove,

547
00:30:31,039 --> 00:30:33,083
I slept on the beach, in a tent.

548
00:30:33,124 --> 00:30:35,043
I was 16, and I
lived at the hotel

549
00:30:35,085 --> 00:30:36,628
when I started working here.

550
00:30:38,963 --> 00:30:41,132
I had a girlfriend
in high school who came

551
00:30:41,174 --> 00:30:43,677
with her family once to
look at the drag queens,

552
00:30:43,718 --> 00:30:47,514
and she told me a
story on the phone once,

553
00:30:47,555 --> 00:30:51,142
like, saying, "There's men
there who dress like women,

554
00:30:51,184 --> 00:30:54,062
"and everybody gets
really drunk and they have

555
00:30:54,104 --> 00:30:55,313
"sex with each other."

556
00:30:55,355 --> 00:30:57,440
I remember her telling
me the really long story

557
00:30:57,482 --> 00:31:00,110
on the phone and me
thinking, "How am I gonna

558
00:31:00,151 --> 00:31:03,238
"respond to this without
giving myself away?"

559
00:31:04,572 --> 00:31:08,159
There was something
to me about Fire Island

560
00:31:08,201 --> 00:31:10,829
that I had this kind of
preconception that

561
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:13,206
it was a little played
out, it was a little

562
00:31:13,248 --> 00:31:16,001
kind of, like, passe, and
something from

563
00:31:16,042 --> 00:31:17,168
the previous generation.

564
00:31:19,129 --> 00:31:22,465
I first came to Cherry
Grove as a visitor.

565
00:31:22,507 --> 00:31:25,135
I was staying in the Pines,
and I wandered

566
00:31:25,176 --> 00:31:29,305
down to Cherry Grove, and
gave it just the once over.

567
00:31:29,347 --> 00:31:31,725
It just seemed like a
bunch of, you know,

568
00:31:31,766 --> 00:31:35,270
fat queens in dashikis
and Judy Garland music

569
00:31:35,311 --> 00:31:39,190
and a lot of drunk people,
and it looked kinda tawdry.

570
00:31:43,528 --> 00:31:46,239
Over time, I began to
understand that it was

571
00:31:46,281 --> 00:31:50,118
the people in Cherry Grove
that ultimately won me over.

572
00:32:01,588 --> 00:32:03,316
This is Jana Mooger,
and I'm in the beautiful

573
00:32:03,340 --> 00:32:07,218
backyard palatial
gardens of Que Sera Sera.

574
00:32:10,180 --> 00:32:12,640
Every house had
a name back in the day.

575
00:32:17,145 --> 00:32:19,314
- Bangkok.
- Bottoms Up.

576
00:32:19,356 --> 00:32:20,899
Spank You Very Much.

577
00:32:20,940 --> 00:32:24,027
My house now is
called Bella's Passion.

578
00:32:24,069 --> 00:32:26,363
Before that, it was
called The Cuckoo's Nest.

579
00:32:26,404 --> 00:32:27,822
Something and the Wolf.

580
00:32:27,864 --> 00:32:29,282
Dennis and the Wolf.

581
00:32:29,324 --> 00:32:31,618
My name, Mae's Bush.

582
00:32:31,659 --> 00:32:33,995
Fairy View, because you can see

583
00:32:34,037 --> 00:32:35,622
the fairies from the house.

584
00:32:35,663 --> 00:32:37,874
Well, my house
is called Roseland,

585
00:32:37,916 --> 00:32:42,712
because of my persona
out here, Rose Levine,

586
00:32:42,754 --> 00:32:44,482
and I've been Rose Levine
since I arrived here

587
00:32:44,506 --> 00:32:48,343
in Cherry Grove,
so when I bought a house,

588
00:32:48,385 --> 00:32:49,844
I put a sign up, Roseland,

589
00:32:49,886 --> 00:32:51,304
and it's still Roseland.

590
00:32:54,265 --> 00:32:57,435
We had a home called
The Valley of the Pods,

591
00:32:57,477 --> 00:33:00,563
which, that was because
everyone in the household

592
00:33:00,605 --> 00:33:04,317
joined AA, and at 6:00
o'clock, at that time,

593
00:33:04,359 --> 00:33:06,611
everybody slowly
left the beach and left

594
00:33:06,653 --> 00:33:08,738
their homes and kinda
wandered, like that movie,

595
00:33:08,780 --> 00:33:10,156
Valley of the Pods.

596
00:33:10,198 --> 00:33:12,992
The one Judy and I live
in is called Happiness Is.

597
00:33:13,034 --> 00:33:16,788
The little one around the
corner that was an outhouse

598
00:33:16,830 --> 00:33:19,708
back in the 1800s, before
they barged it over here,

599
00:33:19,749 --> 00:33:22,836
it was called
Small Comfort, it is small.

600
00:33:26,256 --> 00:33:29,843
Other names, Boys in the Attic,

601
00:33:29,884 --> 00:33:32,262
Above and Beyond.

602
00:33:32,303 --> 00:33:36,141
White Swallow, which
they made them change.

603
00:33:37,392 --> 00:33:40,937
Lickety Split, which
they made them change.

604
00:33:40,979 --> 00:33:42,355
Who made them change it?

605
00:33:42,397 --> 00:33:45,442
The community, they said,

606
00:33:47,277 --> 00:33:48,820
"Ease it up a little bit."

607
00:33:50,530 --> 00:33:53,116
I see people stopping
in front of Pride House,

608
00:33:53,158 --> 00:33:54,492
and they're taking pictures.

609
00:33:54,534 --> 00:33:57,120
I heard some people say,
"This is the house that was

610
00:33:57,162 --> 00:34:00,373
"named after the Gay Pride day,"

611
00:34:00,415 --> 00:34:02,625
and I stopped
and I said, "No, it's not,"

612
00:34:02,667 --> 00:34:05,045
I said, "It was Pride
House and Prejudice House,

613
00:34:05,086 --> 00:34:08,631
"and Prejudice House is
the one down at the foot

614
00:34:08,673 --> 00:34:10,717
"of the dune, right next door."

615
00:34:10,759 --> 00:34:12,594
Oh, Hansel and Gretel.

616
00:34:12,635 --> 00:34:15,805
Roman Holiday always had a
big crowd and nice people.

617
00:34:15,847 --> 00:34:17,283
You see, years ago, a lot of
people stayed

618
00:34:17,307 --> 00:34:19,476
in groups and kept
comin' back every year,

619
00:34:19,517 --> 00:34:21,436
so everybody became
friendly and family,

620
00:34:21,478 --> 00:34:24,898
so we got to know who was
who and what was what.

621
00:34:24,939 --> 00:34:27,359
Some old-timers have
come up to me, says,

622
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,277
"I remember
this wonderful party,

623
00:34:29,319 --> 00:34:30,695
"this wonderful orgy,
if you will,

624
00:34:30,737 --> 00:34:33,448
"that happened in
this house," my house.

625
00:34:33,490 --> 00:34:35,325
I guess before it
was named O'Lay,

626
00:34:35,367 --> 00:34:36,701
where there was
this leather group

627
00:34:36,743 --> 00:34:40,080
and this black room,
and it was called

628
00:34:40,121 --> 00:34:41,790
La Maison du Pain.

629
00:34:43,416 --> 00:34:45,877
Well, if I sell my house,
I'm taking my sign down.

630
00:34:55,261 --> 00:34:58,723
Years ago, I was very
friendly with a hairdresser

631
00:35:00,433 --> 00:35:03,520
who had a long braid in
the back of his hair,

632
00:35:03,561 --> 00:35:07,482
and he wore a hat,
and he had an accent.

633
00:35:07,524 --> 00:35:11,236
I cannot ever reveal
his name today

634
00:35:11,277 --> 00:35:14,114
because he wanted to sue me,

635
00:35:15,407 --> 00:35:18,910
'cause I told the story
on stage using his name.

636
00:35:18,952 --> 00:35:21,705
So, I could tell the story,
'cause it's my story,

637
00:35:21,746 --> 00:35:23,415
but I can't use his real name,

638
00:35:23,456 --> 00:35:25,750
so I just refer to
him as Asshole.

639
00:35:27,210 --> 00:35:30,422
So, the asshole came to
me on the beach and said,

640
00:35:30,463 --> 00:35:32,590
"Darling, I'm having
a dinner party,

641
00:35:32,632 --> 00:35:35,260
"and I'd love you to come,"

642
00:35:35,301 --> 00:35:36,821
and he used to always
walk around with this

643
00:35:36,845 --> 00:35:39,097
little capuchin monkey
that was this big.

644
00:35:39,139 --> 00:35:40,932
It was beautiful,
and I loved it,

645
00:35:40,974 --> 00:35:42,702
and it used to always
come sit on my shoulder,

646
00:35:42,726 --> 00:35:44,853
I used to pet it,
I never had a problem

647
00:35:44,894 --> 00:35:47,522
with this friggin' monkey,
can I curse here and there?

648
00:35:47,564 --> 00:35:48,773
- Of course.
- Okay.

649
00:35:50,066 --> 00:35:52,610
So, he invites me as
Bella to go to his house.

650
00:35:52,652 --> 00:35:54,571
All right, Mary, I
can't eat that much when

651
00:35:54,612 --> 00:35:56,007
I'm dressed as Bella,
you know what I mean?

652
00:35:56,031 --> 00:35:58,116
I want to enjoy myself.

653
00:35:58,158 --> 00:36:00,577
So, I go to his house,
and I've been to his house

654
00:36:00,618 --> 00:36:02,078
other times, for a pool party,

655
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,830
but this was a special dinner,

656
00:36:03,872 --> 00:36:05,498
a big party, you should say,

657
00:36:05,540 --> 00:36:07,143
and he's telling me who
was going to be there,

658
00:36:07,167 --> 00:36:10,003
Liza Minnelli, Claudette
Colbert,

659
00:36:10,045 --> 00:36:11,647
and this one and that
one, I said to myself,

660
00:36:11,671 --> 00:36:14,549
"He's so full of fucking
shit, I know that he does hair

661
00:36:14,591 --> 00:36:18,094
"to famous people, but
this," but I had to go.

662
00:36:18,136 --> 00:36:20,430
And, sure enough, all
these people were there,

663
00:36:20,472 --> 00:36:22,724
Liza Minnelli,
Claudette Colbert,

664
00:36:23,683 --> 00:36:27,228
the writer of some big movie,

665
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:28,772
whatever it was,
whatever he said,

666
00:36:28,813 --> 00:36:31,816
and the food was delicious,
and the shrimps were this big.

667
00:36:31,858 --> 00:36:35,070
So, after I made a pig of
myself, eatin' all the shrimps,

668
00:36:35,111 --> 00:36:39,157
I had to go fix myself up,
because Bella was coming apart.

669
00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:41,785
So, I went upstairs
to the bathroom,

670
00:36:41,826 --> 00:36:43,286
and I started to fix myself,

671
00:36:43,328 --> 00:36:44,472
and all of a sudden,
I look down,

672
00:36:44,496 --> 00:36:46,831
and what do I see on
the side of the bed,

673
00:36:46,873 --> 00:36:51,002
out of the bathroom, was
this cage with a blanket.

674
00:36:51,044 --> 00:36:53,129
It was the worst thing
I ever did in my life,

675
00:36:53,171 --> 00:36:54,297
to take off the blanket.

676
00:36:54,339 --> 00:36:57,258
I took the blanket off,
and when I took

677
00:36:57,300 --> 00:36:58,700
the blanket off,
I see the little...

678
00:37:01,846 --> 00:37:03,431
You're sweet, that's a good pea,

679
00:37:03,473 --> 00:37:06,726
I went, "Oh, oh," and he
remembered me.

680
00:37:06,768 --> 00:37:10,855
So, I opened up the door, and
he just jumped into my arms,

681
00:37:10,897 --> 00:37:14,901
and this monkey
was just delicious.

682
00:37:14,943 --> 00:37:17,445
All right, Mary,
enough is enough.

683
00:37:17,487 --> 00:37:20,490
I had this monkey in my
arms 15 minutes, at least.

684
00:37:20,532 --> 00:37:23,702
I go to put it in the cage,
and it doesn't wanna get off.

685
00:37:23,743 --> 00:37:25,745
So, I says, "Come on!"

686
00:37:25,787 --> 00:37:28,373
I go to put it in the cage, and
I go to slam the door on it,

687
00:37:28,415 --> 00:37:31,960
and the monkey held onto
the door and the cage,

688
00:37:32,002 --> 00:37:35,088
and with one second,
became a vicious bastard,

689
00:37:35,130 --> 00:37:37,966
because he opens his mouth,
and I saw these teeth

690
00:37:38,008 --> 00:37:39,759
that I never saw before.

691
00:37:42,971 --> 00:37:45,223
Oh, I jumped back,
I said, "What the fuck

692
00:37:45,265 --> 00:37:46,641
"am I gonna do now?"

693
00:37:46,683 --> 00:37:48,852
And I go to pick it up,
and he jumps up in the air,

694
00:37:48,893 --> 00:37:52,313
and it lands on my head.

695
00:37:52,355 --> 00:37:54,941
Into the wig, the nails
were, and I couldn't

696
00:37:54,983 --> 00:37:56,693
get him out of my hair.

697
00:37:56,735 --> 00:37:57,753
I couldn't do it, I
didn't know what to do.

698
00:37:57,777 --> 00:38:00,530
I was startin' to freak out now.

699
00:38:00,572 --> 00:38:01,716
I was on my hands
and knees, and I said,

700
00:38:01,740 --> 00:38:03,450
"This is how it has to be."

701
00:38:03,491 --> 00:38:07,579
I took him, still on my
head, and I threw him forward

702
00:38:07,620 --> 00:38:09,122
so he would land on the bed.

703
00:38:09,164 --> 00:38:12,459
He landed on the bed, broke
away from me and the wig,

704
00:38:12,500 --> 00:38:14,395
had to see the wig when it
was done, it was horrible,

705
00:38:14,419 --> 00:38:16,338
and I threw him in
the cage, when he went

706
00:38:16,379 --> 00:38:17,922
again, I said, "Fuck you,"

707
00:38:17,964 --> 00:38:21,384
and I slammed the door,
and his arm went limp,

708
00:38:21,426 --> 00:38:24,304
and I see him crying
and holding the arm.

709
00:38:24,346 --> 00:38:26,598
I said, "Oh, dear
God in heaven."

710
00:38:26,639 --> 00:38:29,726
I covered him, I fixed
the Bella up beautiful,

711
00:38:29,768 --> 00:38:31,603
all over again,
I went downstairs,

712
00:38:31,644 --> 00:38:34,647
and I says, "I'm leaving
now, I have to go."

713
00:38:34,689 --> 00:38:36,125
He was like, "Oh, no,
Bella, we're having this,

714
00:38:36,149 --> 00:38:37,543
"we're having that," I
said, "Well, maybe I'll stay

715
00:38:37,567 --> 00:38:39,486
"a couple more shrimp."

716
00:38:39,527 --> 00:38:40,838
I'm on the beach
the next day with my

717
00:38:40,862 --> 00:38:45,450
Bain de Soleil #4, and
I'm tanning my whole body,

718
00:38:45,492 --> 00:38:48,578
and all of a sudden,
I see Asshole

719
00:38:48,620 --> 00:38:51,539
walking with his
monkey in his arm.

720
00:38:51,581 --> 00:38:53,559
And I put my head down,
made believe I was sleeping,

721
00:38:53,583 --> 00:38:56,628
but I'm looking out with
the little corner of my eye

722
00:38:56,670 --> 00:38:59,673
and I see the asshole, the
monkey,

723
00:38:59,714 --> 00:39:01,758
and the monkey had a sling.

724
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,220
I says, "Oh, dear Jesus,
oh, dear Jesus."

725
00:39:05,261 --> 00:39:07,681
"Bella, Bella!"

726
00:39:07,722 --> 00:39:10,016
I says, "Oh, hi, yes."

727
00:39:10,058 --> 00:39:11,685
"Look what happened!

728
00:39:11,726 --> 00:39:13,103
"Do you know anybody
went upstairs

729
00:39:13,144 --> 00:39:14,521
"in my room last night?"

730
00:39:14,562 --> 00:39:16,690
I said, "I did,
to fix myself up,

731
00:39:16,731 --> 00:39:19,567
"but I didn't
hear nothing strange."

732
00:39:19,609 --> 00:39:21,111
I said, "Why, where
was the baby?"

733
00:39:21,152 --> 00:39:23,279
"Right there",
"Oh, I didn't even notice."

734
00:39:23,321 --> 00:39:25,031
"Right there", "Oh, really?"

735
00:39:25,073 --> 00:39:27,742
"The monkey's arm, and"

736
00:39:28,785 --> 00:39:30,453
I said, "Oh, that's a shame."

737
00:39:30,495 --> 00:39:32,789
Well, all of a sudden,
somebody that I didn't know,

738
00:39:32,831 --> 00:39:35,792
must've been a big shot,
calls this asshole's name,

739
00:39:35,834 --> 00:39:38,253
and he gets excited to
see them, I had to think

740
00:39:38,294 --> 00:39:40,088
it was somethin' to
do with California and

741
00:39:40,130 --> 00:39:42,590
a whatever show he was gonna do.

742
00:39:42,632 --> 00:39:45,051
He turns around, and
he says, "Here, Bella,"

743
00:39:45,093 --> 00:39:48,930
and throws the
monkey in my arms.

744
00:39:48,972 --> 00:39:51,933
The monkey looked at me,
and I looked at the monkey,

745
00:39:51,975 --> 00:39:54,602
and I knew the monkey
remembered me.

746
00:39:54,644 --> 00:39:57,147
Well, I got the biggest,

747
00:39:57,188 --> 00:39:58,773
freakin' out all over me.

748
00:39:58,815 --> 00:40:00,567
She grabs the
monkey back, she said,

749
00:40:00,608 --> 00:40:03,695
"You, you broke
my monkey's arm,"

750
00:40:03,737 --> 00:40:05,697
and I never saw her again.

751
00:40:07,824 --> 00:40:11,369
At one time,
this was in the '60s,

752
00:40:11,411 --> 00:40:14,706
you had to show that you
were staying with somebody

753
00:40:14,748 --> 00:40:19,461
here in Cherry Grove before
they'd let you off the boat.

754
00:40:20,754 --> 00:40:23,673
They just wouldn't let
anybody off the ferry.

755
00:40:27,844 --> 00:40:31,598
Part of the thing was trying
to protect the community.

756
00:40:31,639 --> 00:40:34,851
The reason why they were
doing this was to prevent

757
00:40:34,893 --> 00:40:37,228
the Sayville types
from coming over

758
00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:41,024
and beating up the guys,
the gay guys.

759
00:40:43,234 --> 00:40:45,862
The guys used to come
by on motorcycles and

760
00:40:45,904 --> 00:40:47,697
in automobiles and scream out,

761
00:40:47,739 --> 00:40:51,785
"Oh, fuckin' faggots,"
and stuff like that

762
00:40:51,826 --> 00:40:53,119
at the train station.

763
00:41:03,046 --> 00:41:05,840
Drag queens used to
have to hide their clothes

764
00:41:05,882 --> 00:41:10,345
underneath the boards of
the houses in order to,

765
00:41:10,387 --> 00:41:12,722
because it was illegal
to dress like a woman.

766
00:41:16,768 --> 00:41:17,977
Have you ever heard any horror

767
00:41:18,019 --> 00:41:19,688
stories about Cherry Grove?

768
00:41:19,729 --> 00:41:21,648
Horror stories, yeah.

769
00:41:21,690 --> 00:41:24,067
Some guy was
murdered on Doctors Walk.

770
00:41:24,859 --> 00:41:26,069
Why?

771
00:41:26,111 --> 00:41:28,071
In Limerick, do you
know the house Limerick?

772
00:41:29,489 --> 00:41:33,201
Rough sex, he was the
piano player in Le Monster,

773
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:35,829
and they were having rough sex,

774
00:41:35,870 --> 00:41:38,832
and the guy that he,
it's not funny,

775
00:41:38,873 --> 00:41:42,419
the guy that he was
with stuck a sock down

776
00:41:42,460 --> 00:41:45,088
his throat, and he
gagged to death.

777
00:41:46,214 --> 00:41:47,257
And that's true?

778
00:41:47,298 --> 00:41:48,925
But they never
found out who it was.

779
00:41:48,967 --> 00:41:50,051
And it's true?

780
00:41:50,093 --> 00:41:51,761
Yeah, it's a true story.

781
00:41:51,803 --> 00:41:53,443
What do you think,
I make these things up?

782
00:41:58,768 --> 00:42:00,854
When I was working
at The Monster,

783
00:42:00,895 --> 00:42:04,065
there was this guy going
around setting fire to houses.

784
00:42:04,107 --> 00:42:06,109
He would set a
fire on one side of town,

785
00:42:06,151 --> 00:42:07,944
then go to the
other side of town

786
00:42:07,986 --> 00:42:11,781
and set a fire under
somebody else's house,

787
00:42:11,823 --> 00:42:15,285
and it had everybody in
a total state of panic.

788
00:42:15,326 --> 00:42:19,539
A maid in the Ice Palace
was cleaning his room

789
00:42:19,581 --> 00:42:23,835
and found flammable
fluids under his bed.

790
00:42:26,296 --> 00:42:27,964
The police came and arrested him

791
00:42:28,006 --> 00:42:30,717
and quietly took
him off the island

792
00:42:30,759 --> 00:42:32,969
early in the mornings,
before anybody

793
00:42:33,011 --> 00:42:36,514
could see who it was,
'cause if they had,

794
00:42:36,556 --> 00:42:38,224
they probably
would've lynched him.

795
00:42:40,685 --> 00:42:43,688
Years ago, there
was a young man who was

796
00:42:43,730 --> 00:42:46,691
robbing people,
and he was finally caught,

797
00:42:46,733 --> 00:42:50,362
and fairly kicked around
by some of the local

798
00:42:50,403 --> 00:42:52,203
residents and was very
glad to have the police

799
00:42:52,238 --> 00:42:53,406
come and take him away.

800
00:42:54,991 --> 00:42:59,746
The evildoers over here are
meted a very strange justice.

801
00:43:03,041 --> 00:43:04,125
Were you ever worried about

802
00:43:04,167 --> 00:43:06,169
getting in trouble
in Cherry Grove?

803
00:43:06,211 --> 00:43:07,420
No.

804
00:43:07,462 --> 00:43:09,262
Just once, there was
said that they were doing

805
00:43:09,297 --> 00:43:12,008
a thing on the boat,
checking everybody's bags

806
00:43:12,050 --> 00:43:15,095
for drugs and marijuana,
so yeah,

807
00:43:15,136 --> 00:43:17,305
they didn't have sniffing
dogs at the time,

808
00:43:17,347 --> 00:43:20,392
so I put my little
wig on my head,

809
00:43:20,433 --> 00:43:23,228
and I stuffed an ounce
into my wig inside,

810
00:43:23,269 --> 00:43:26,022
and I just looked like
I had a bubble hairdo.

811
00:43:26,064 --> 00:43:27,064
What can I tell you?

812
00:43:27,899 --> 00:43:30,318
There was an
author out here one time,

813
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,906
and he was gonna do a,
write a novel

814
00:43:34,948 --> 00:43:37,659
about murder in the Meat Rack.

815
00:43:37,701 --> 00:43:41,746
And we all went crazy,
"Don't you ever do that,

816
00:43:43,039 --> 00:43:46,626
"because it'll give some
nut the idea to do it."

817
00:43:47,919 --> 00:43:49,254
Do you remember people being

818
00:43:49,295 --> 00:43:50,839
arrested in the Meat Rack?

819
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,299
Oh, yes, I remember
people being arrested.

820
00:43:53,341 --> 00:43:55,468
Three guys that lived with us.

821
00:44:00,765 --> 00:44:03,309
In 1965, I had a guest,

822
00:44:03,351 --> 00:44:05,895
and I was doing a show,

823
00:44:05,937 --> 00:44:08,064
and he was supposed to
meet me at 2:00 o'clock

824
00:44:08,106 --> 00:44:09,941
in the morning,
after the rehearsal,

825
00:44:09,983 --> 00:44:12,819
that's how we
used to rehearse here.

826
00:44:12,861 --> 00:44:15,030
I'm waiting and waiting,
I go home.

827
00:44:15,071 --> 00:44:17,907
Anyway, he never showed up.

828
00:44:17,949 --> 00:44:21,453
The next morning, since
we never had telephones

829
00:44:21,494 --> 00:44:23,580
at that time in the house,

830
00:44:23,621 --> 00:44:26,124
I got a telephone call
from the telephone

831
00:44:26,166 --> 00:44:31,212
booth downtown, and he was
in jail on the mainland.

832
00:44:31,254 --> 00:44:34,215
He went out last night and
he did a little cruising,

833
00:44:34,257 --> 00:44:38,887
I guess, and they were
plainclothes policemen,

834
00:44:38,928 --> 00:44:43,099
and he might've touched
him, boom, he was arrested.

835
00:44:43,141 --> 00:44:46,644
I had to send $1,000
over to the mainland

836
00:44:46,686 --> 00:44:49,230
to bail him out,
and he was terrible.

837
00:44:51,066 --> 00:44:54,069
During the '60s,
there were raids

838
00:44:54,110 --> 00:44:57,280
by the Suffolk County Police
Department.

839
00:44:57,322 --> 00:45:00,742
It was something that
happened with some regularity.

840
00:45:00,784 --> 00:45:03,370
In those days, the Meat Rack

841
00:45:03,411 --> 00:45:06,956
was all the way
up to Marilyn Walk.

842
00:45:09,417 --> 00:45:11,920
Well, we found out there
was going to be a raid,

843
00:45:11,961 --> 00:45:14,547
we just was upset,
and "Why don't you just

844
00:45:14,589 --> 00:45:18,802
"leave us alone,"
you know, they,

845
00:45:18,843 --> 00:45:21,304
we don't do it in
front of them, and,

846
00:45:21,346 --> 00:45:26,351
but they have come on our
territory now.

847
00:45:30,605 --> 00:45:31,731
Were you ever worried about

848
00:45:31,773 --> 00:45:33,858
getting in trouble
in Cherry Grove?

849
00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:36,569
Yeah, I was, and in a way,

850
00:45:36,611 --> 00:45:40,115
this doesn't, I don't think
speaks very well for me,

851
00:45:41,741 --> 00:45:44,119
the danger of the Meat
Rack was one of the things

852
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:45,161
that attracted me to it.

853
00:45:47,664 --> 00:45:51,001
Frankie McNamara, he was
a queen that lived out here,

854
00:45:51,042 --> 00:45:53,378
he's since passed, and I'm
very friendly with him,

855
00:45:53,420 --> 00:45:55,547
and he was 10 years
older than me.

856
00:45:55,588 --> 00:45:58,800
There were times that
people would go to the Rack,

857
00:45:58,842 --> 00:46:01,386
that was the known
place, of course,

858
00:46:01,428 --> 00:46:04,472
and one time they came,
all the cops,

859
00:46:04,514 --> 00:46:07,142
not the rangers, the cops,

860
00:46:07,183 --> 00:46:10,854
with flashlights and
floodlights and whatever,

861
00:46:10,895 --> 00:46:15,066
and started to grab the
people and handcuff them.

862
00:46:15,108 --> 00:46:18,111
Half-naked, half-undressed,
whatever it was.

863
00:46:18,153 --> 00:46:20,113
Frankie was naked in the Rack,

864
00:46:20,155 --> 00:46:22,907
completely bare-ass naked,
and I thought,

865
00:46:22,949 --> 00:46:24,034
"Girl, you have no sense."

866
00:46:25,618 --> 00:46:30,623
And she laid under the walk
that leads you into the Rack.

867
00:46:31,958 --> 00:46:34,002
Under that, she was,
completely naked,

868
00:46:34,044 --> 00:46:36,087
in the water, hangin' out.

869
00:46:36,129 --> 00:46:40,925
Then, she floated
herself out to the bay

870
00:46:40,967 --> 00:46:43,720
and floated herself
down to Aeon Walk,

871
00:46:43,762 --> 00:46:45,472
and she saved herself.

872
00:46:51,227 --> 00:46:55,690
It was very disheartening
to see these poor boys

873
00:46:55,732 --> 00:46:58,526
just sitting on the dock
at 7:30 in the morning

874
00:46:58,568 --> 00:47:01,905
waiting for the police boat,
in handcuffs,

875
00:47:01,946 --> 00:47:03,573
they would do it on purpose,

876
00:47:03,615 --> 00:47:04,908
so people would see them.

877
00:47:12,415 --> 00:47:13,917
They used to take you downtown,

878
00:47:13,958 --> 00:47:15,627
chain you to the post,

879
00:47:16,753 --> 00:47:20,006
the telephone pole,
and arrest you,

880
00:47:20,048 --> 00:47:21,466
but they humiliated you.

881
00:47:21,508 --> 00:47:23,760
That was humiliation, and then,

882
00:47:23,802 --> 00:47:25,428
the next day, in the newspaper,

883
00:47:25,470 --> 00:47:28,223
they would write a
whole article about

884
00:47:28,264 --> 00:47:30,642
who got caught in the Rack.

885
00:47:30,684 --> 00:47:35,355
Your name, your address,
your telephone number.

886
00:47:35,397 --> 00:47:37,065
That was real discrimination.

887
00:47:47,033 --> 00:47:51,079
I was out in the Rack,
and all of a sudden,

888
00:47:52,414 --> 00:47:55,417
headlights in a row off

889
00:47:55,458 --> 00:47:58,628
of the beach just went on.

890
00:47:58,670 --> 00:48:03,008
There were two, four,
six, eight headlights,

891
00:48:04,134 --> 00:48:07,178
just went on,
I knew it was a raid,

892
00:48:07,220 --> 00:48:09,389
and I could just
see my career going up

893
00:48:09,431 --> 00:48:11,725
in smoke if I got caught,

894
00:48:11,766 --> 00:48:15,687
and I got, maybe it was my
legal mind that went to work.

895
00:48:15,729 --> 00:48:19,607
I said, "Well, I know
you can't go south,

896
00:48:19,649 --> 00:48:24,654
"because that's where the
headlights are,

897
00:48:24,696 --> 00:48:26,132
"and I don't know whether," I
didn't know

898
00:48:26,156 --> 00:48:29,492
whether there were trucks,
automobile,

899
00:48:29,534 --> 00:48:31,202
Jeeps, or what,
all I knew that there were

900
00:48:31,244 --> 00:48:36,249
these headlights
shining from the dunes

901
00:48:37,459 --> 00:48:38,960
into the Rack itself.

902
00:48:40,462 --> 00:48:43,089
I also thought that

903
00:48:44,257 --> 00:48:49,346
if this was this well-prepared

904
00:48:49,387 --> 00:48:52,724
that maybe there was
somebody at each exit.

905
00:48:52,766 --> 00:48:56,603
There was a eastern exit
that came into the Grove,

906
00:48:56,644 --> 00:48:59,147
and there was a western
exit that exited into

907
00:48:59,189 --> 00:49:02,650
the Pines, so there
might be a cop

908
00:49:02,692 --> 00:49:05,320
standing there at
the exits to catch you

909
00:49:05,362 --> 00:49:07,739
as you tried to get out.

910
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:11,284
So, that left only
one direction to go,

911
00:49:11,326 --> 00:49:14,120
and that was north,
and the only thing

912
00:49:14,162 --> 00:49:18,291
north was the bay, so
I headed for the bay,

913
00:49:18,333 --> 00:49:23,380
grabbed a couple reeds,
broke 'em off,

914
00:49:23,421 --> 00:49:27,342
and got into the bay,
and sat down in the

915
00:49:27,384 --> 00:49:29,302
muck and mud of
the bay with the reeds,

916
00:49:29,344 --> 00:49:32,889
and I sat there until the sun
came up.

917
00:49:32,931 --> 00:49:35,767
I did not get arrested.

918
00:49:35,809 --> 00:49:38,436
So, I don't
know who did that day,

919
00:49:38,478 --> 00:49:42,148
but I never did, thank God.

920
00:49:48,113 --> 00:49:50,573
I remember one
morning in August,

921
00:49:51,825 --> 00:49:54,285
this friend of ours,
knocking on the door,

922
00:49:54,327 --> 00:49:56,871
very excited,
couldn't get his words out,

923
00:49:56,913 --> 00:50:01,418
and he kept stuttering,
and we yelled,

924
00:50:01,459 --> 00:50:03,628
"Say something, what is it,"

925
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:07,507
and he said, "The Meat
Rack was raided last night,

926
00:50:07,549 --> 00:50:09,259
"and Marilyn Monroe died."

927
00:50:26,943 --> 00:50:29,154
When I first came, there
were still a lot of the

928
00:50:29,195 --> 00:50:31,489
old timers that had
gone through that,

929
00:50:31,531 --> 00:50:34,701
and what struck me
was that they could

930
00:50:34,743 --> 00:50:36,286
talk about it with humor.

931
00:50:38,913 --> 00:50:41,458
There was one that,
I knew him because

932
00:50:41,499 --> 00:50:43,877
he was the lover of a good
friend of mine.

933
00:50:43,918 --> 00:50:47,422
Years later, I heard the
story that they had met

934
00:50:47,464 --> 00:50:51,259
by taking refuge under
the basement of a house

935
00:50:51,301 --> 00:50:53,136
due to the raid
of the Meat Rack.

936
00:50:55,305 --> 00:51:00,310
The guy who ran
the Sea Shack kept a box

937
00:51:01,770 --> 00:51:05,982
of money that, whenever somebody

938
00:51:08,026 --> 00:51:11,279
was arrested, he had
his lawyer in Sayville

939
00:51:11,321 --> 00:51:12,947
go and bail them out.

940
00:51:15,617 --> 00:51:18,620
There was a wonderful
straight couple out here,

941
00:51:18,661 --> 00:51:20,080
Jim and Marie Fallon.

942
00:51:21,331 --> 00:51:23,667
Marie came out when
she was two years old,

943
00:51:23,708 --> 00:51:25,627
to Cherry Grove,
and she died at 92,

944
00:51:25,669 --> 00:51:27,337
so for 90 years,
she come out here.

945
00:51:27,379 --> 00:51:29,839
Jim was a lawyer in Sayville,

946
00:51:29,881 --> 00:51:33,927
and he represented the
gay men who were arrested.

947
00:51:37,222 --> 00:51:39,432
Thank God for some of the locals

948
00:51:40,642 --> 00:51:44,646
that would go
to bat for them and

949
00:51:44,688 --> 00:51:47,315
bail them out, but of course,

950
00:51:47,357 --> 00:51:50,276
by that time, the newspaper
had your name.

951
00:51:52,862 --> 00:51:56,157
Ed McCarthy,
mainly, he took care

952
00:51:56,199 --> 00:51:58,535
of a couple of people
and got them out of jail,

953
00:51:58,576 --> 00:52:01,204
and Jim Fallon, and
these were straight men,

954
00:52:01,246 --> 00:52:03,623
they were not gay, and
they were protecting,

955
00:52:03,665 --> 00:52:06,126
as they said, that, "We're
protecting the boys."

956
00:52:31,109 --> 00:52:33,445
Tell me a
little bit about the invasion.

957
00:52:33,486 --> 00:52:38,199
The invasion, well, the
invasion started in 1976.

958
00:52:38,241 --> 00:52:41,661
It started, there was a drag
queen named

959
00:52:41,703 --> 00:52:44,414
Terry Warren who was
an icon out here.

960
00:52:44,456 --> 00:52:46,666
She was a great performer
in the bars and

961
00:52:46,708 --> 00:52:49,085
in the theater here,
and she went

962
00:52:49,127 --> 00:52:50,587
to the Pines for
dinner one night,

963
00:52:50,628 --> 00:52:54,049
and John White, she
went to the Blue Whale,

964
00:52:54,090 --> 00:52:55,842
and John White
asked his maitre d'

965
00:52:55,884 --> 00:52:58,887
to ask her to leave because
it was a family restaurant,

966
00:53:00,430 --> 00:53:03,808
and they wouldn't allow her
in because she was in drag.

967
00:53:03,850 --> 00:53:05,560
Terry, more or less,
lived in drag,

968
00:53:05,602 --> 00:53:07,479
even when he wasn't in
drag, he Looked like

969
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:11,483
he was in drag,
and he came back,

970
00:53:11,524 --> 00:53:15,737
and it enhanced the rift
between the two communities.

971
00:53:15,779 --> 00:53:17,590
I mean, people always
looked at us, like the Pines

972
00:53:17,614 --> 00:53:19,407
was the upper East Side,
and the Grove was

973
00:53:19,449 --> 00:53:22,285
the West Village, and
there was always that

974
00:53:22,327 --> 00:53:24,412
competition that went on,
and I think that

975
00:53:24,454 --> 00:53:26,831
sort of enhanced the feeling of
distrust

976
00:53:26,873 --> 00:53:29,334
and dislike between the two
communities.

977
00:53:29,376 --> 00:53:31,002
I mean, it just inflamed it.

978
00:53:38,343 --> 00:53:41,554
On July 4th,
we were having a party,

979
00:53:41,596 --> 00:53:43,598
and the subject came up,
and I remember

980
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:45,684
we were watching television,
and it was during

981
00:53:45,725 --> 00:53:48,478
the Bicentennial, and they
had a massive flotilla

982
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,481
going up and down the Hudson
River, it was spectacular.

983
00:54:04,619 --> 00:54:07,122
And the conversation
went on about John White

984
00:54:07,163 --> 00:54:09,332
and what he did and how
disgraceful it was

985
00:54:09,374 --> 00:54:11,543
and how could someone
in a gay community

986
00:54:11,584 --> 00:54:13,545
be so closeted and close-minded,

987
00:54:13,586 --> 00:54:15,046
how could he do that to his own,

988
00:54:15,088 --> 00:54:17,132
how could anyone do
that to their own,

989
00:54:17,173 --> 00:54:19,926
and it just sort of inflamed
everybody.

990
00:54:19,968 --> 00:54:21,678
I don't know who said it,

991
00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:24,681
but someone said, "Well, we
should go and show them,"

992
00:54:24,723 --> 00:54:27,517
and "Why don't we have
a flotilla of our own

993
00:54:27,559 --> 00:54:29,602
"in our bay," and it
just went on and on,

994
00:54:29,644 --> 00:54:33,064
so we all decided to have
a little Pansymonium,

995
00:54:33,106 --> 00:54:37,152
as we called it.

996
00:54:51,541 --> 00:54:53,585
When I was homecoming
queen, I used to decide

997
00:54:53,626 --> 00:54:58,131
to do something, and I would
call everybody up and say,

998
00:54:58,173 --> 00:54:59,466
"We're all meeting at the pool,

999
00:54:59,507 --> 00:55:01,426
"and we're all gonna be
Esther Williams today,"

1000
00:55:01,468 --> 00:55:03,112
or, "We're all gonna
meet in the Meat Rack,

1001
00:55:03,136 --> 00:55:04,679
"and we're gonna have lunch,"

1002
00:55:04,721 --> 00:55:06,348
so we use to have a
lot of these events.

1003
00:55:06,389 --> 00:55:08,058
So, now, this was to
become an event,

1004
00:55:08,099 --> 00:55:09,726
and we all got on the
phone and said,

1005
00:55:09,768 --> 00:55:11,227
"We're going to
invade the Pines,

1006
00:55:11,269 --> 00:55:12,562
"everyone has to be in drag,

1007
00:55:12,604 --> 00:55:13,622
"meet so-and-so at the dock,

1008
00:55:13,646 --> 00:55:15,398
"we'll order the water taxi."

1009
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:17,192
So, it was sort of an event,

1010
00:55:17,233 --> 00:55:18,985
and everybody dressed in drag,

1011
00:55:19,027 --> 00:55:20,904
and there was a
small number of us,

1012
00:55:20,945 --> 00:55:24,282
and we went to invade.

1013
00:55:24,324 --> 00:55:27,702
To show, how dare you do
this to one of our own,

1014
00:55:27,744 --> 00:55:29,662
and we had no
idea what to expect,

1015
00:55:29,704 --> 00:55:32,665
but we went, and it
was very well-received,

1016
00:55:32,707 --> 00:55:34,793
it was rather an exciting
happening,

1017
00:55:34,834 --> 00:55:36,961
and we just decided
to do it every year,

1018
00:55:37,003 --> 00:55:38,546
and now it's grown
to what it is.

1019
00:55:41,966 --> 00:55:45,970
Terry Warren and Suzy,
they were the only ones

1020
00:55:46,012 --> 00:55:49,432
that Jimmy married,
let go in drag.

1021
00:55:49,474 --> 00:55:52,435
Her and Suzy did drag
shows out here before

1022
00:55:52,477 --> 00:55:54,270
the rest of them did
it, I mean, they always

1023
00:55:54,312 --> 00:55:56,189
had the ball, and everything.

1024
00:55:56,231 --> 00:55:58,233
Terry died 25 years ago.

1025
00:56:12,622 --> 00:56:14,916
Before the Pines
had the Pavilion

1026
00:56:14,958 --> 00:56:16,918
and the dancing before that,

1027
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:18,253
everybody came to Cherry Grove

1028
00:56:18,294 --> 00:56:20,672
to the Ice Palace and dance,

1029
00:56:20,714 --> 00:56:22,173
they all came from the Pines,

1030
00:56:22,215 --> 00:56:25,885
and so, liquor was turned
off at 4:00 o'clock,

1031
00:56:25,927 --> 00:56:28,638
but everybody stayed and
continued dancing until dawn.

1032
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:30,241
Sometimes, I mean, I,
myself, would run down

1033
00:56:30,265 --> 00:56:33,184
to the ocean, throw yourself
in the ocean, come back.

1034
00:56:33,226 --> 00:56:36,187
A good number of us were on
minor drug kind of things.

1035
00:56:36,229 --> 00:56:37,647
You had the energy
to keep going,

1036
00:56:37,689 --> 00:56:41,109
and in the mornings, I remember
walking out to the beach,

1037
00:56:41,151 --> 00:56:44,988
and here it seemed like
500 guys walking back

1038
00:56:45,030 --> 00:56:47,407
into the Pines,
the sun was coming up.

1039
00:56:47,449 --> 00:56:50,952
They all kind of glowed, it
was just, it was marvelous.

1040
00:57:09,179 --> 00:57:12,474
It hit here like a nuclear bomb.

1041
00:57:12,515 --> 00:57:13,933
Whole houses were wiped out.

1042
00:57:15,477 --> 00:57:18,563
When we come out on
a Friday night from working

1043
00:57:18,605 --> 00:57:21,649
in the city, we'd hear,
"Joe died, Al died,

1044
00:57:21,691 --> 00:57:24,152
"Steve died," five or
six of our friends

1045
00:57:24,194 --> 00:57:27,822
had died that week, and
any of us were vulnerable.

1046
00:57:27,864 --> 00:57:30,408
We used to keep track
of the people we knew

1047
00:57:30,450 --> 00:57:34,371
who died of AIDS,
and we stopped counting

1048
00:57:34,412 --> 00:57:35,580
when we reached 100.

1049
00:57:36,748 --> 00:57:38,291
I think it devastated the
community.

1050
00:57:38,333 --> 00:57:40,210
It was such an eye-opener
to so many people,

1051
00:57:40,251 --> 00:57:43,505
that early, early times,
to start seeing

1052
00:57:43,546 --> 00:57:47,926
everybody change,
I mean, people were

1053
00:57:47,967 --> 00:57:51,680
changing physically, and
it was such a visual.

1054
00:57:51,721 --> 00:57:54,307
I mean, if you lived in
New Rochelle

1055
00:57:54,349 --> 00:57:56,893
or Jersey City, or
something, and read about

1056
00:57:56,935 --> 00:57:59,646
the AIDS epidemic, it
might not have affected

1057
00:57:59,688 --> 00:58:01,856
you so much, but out here,
you saw your neighbors

1058
00:58:01,898 --> 00:58:06,152
losing 100 pounds or
getting Kaposi's sarcoma

1059
00:58:06,194 --> 00:58:09,447
on their face, and I
think it was devastating.

1060
00:58:09,489 --> 00:58:12,325
People didn't know what
to do or how to handle it.

1061
00:58:12,367 --> 00:58:14,327
People felt that if
you got off the boat,

1062
00:58:14,369 --> 00:58:16,871
you were gonna get AIDS.

1063
00:58:16,913 --> 00:58:20,917
There were definitely people
running around here, scared.

1064
00:58:25,422 --> 00:58:28,717
A lot of people at the
time looked the other way,

1065
00:58:28,758 --> 00:58:31,886
especially at the
beginning of the epidemic.

1066
00:58:31,928 --> 00:58:34,305
We didn't know what caused it.

1067
00:58:34,347 --> 00:58:38,560
It was then, later on,
established to be bloodborne,

1068
00:58:38,601 --> 00:58:40,937
and there are a lot of people
that thought that maybe

1069
00:58:40,979 --> 00:58:44,149
mosquitoes would carry it.

1070
00:58:46,901 --> 00:58:49,904
We invited some straight
relatives out here,

1071
00:58:49,946 --> 00:58:53,700
and they came home thinking it
was sort of a leper's colony.

1072
00:58:54,784 --> 00:58:57,537
They saw people very, very sick.

1073
00:58:57,579 --> 00:59:01,750
The fact that I'm 87,
I'm damn glad to be here,

1074
00:59:01,791 --> 00:59:03,769
because there were an awful
lot of my contemporaries

1075
00:59:03,793 --> 00:59:05,795
who didn't make it,
I can assure you.

1076
00:59:05,837 --> 00:59:09,758
I could go right down
Lewis Walk, practically,

1077
00:59:09,799 --> 00:59:12,635
and I'm sure I could give you

1078
00:59:12,677 --> 00:59:15,013
a half a dozen names
of people who died.

1079
00:59:15,055 --> 00:59:16,806
My friend Paul.

1080
00:59:16,848 --> 00:59:18,475
Paul, he was in a
house on Fire Island,

1081
00:59:18,516 --> 00:59:19,827
people were in that
house for a long time,

1082
00:59:19,851 --> 00:59:21,811
Bella and I, and a bunch.

1083
00:59:21,853 --> 00:59:25,648
My friend Joey, Joey Yvonne.

1084
00:59:25,690 --> 00:59:30,028
Aljean, and all the,
Jackie Morrell,

1085
00:59:30,070 --> 00:59:32,697
many, many, I could go on,
I could go on.

1086
00:59:37,911 --> 00:59:40,288
The guys I spent so
much time with,

1087
00:59:40,330 --> 00:59:41,414
they were good friends,

1088
00:59:41,456 --> 00:59:45,585
and it was heartbreaking
when they died.

1089
00:59:48,922 --> 00:59:53,301
Boys started dying, all
the men who owned homes

1090
00:59:53,343 --> 00:59:55,679
started to die off.

1091
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,723
Women were making a lot
more money in their jobs.

1092
00:59:58,765 --> 01:00:01,267
And there was a slogan
at the time,

1093
01:00:02,519 --> 01:00:04,979
"Men die, and the women buy."

1094
01:00:05,021 --> 01:00:07,190
Women started to
have the kinds of jobs

1095
01:00:07,232 --> 01:00:09,859
where they made the money
to be able to come out here,

1096
01:00:09,901 --> 01:00:13,321
and there was more opportunity
to do that,

1097
01:00:13,363 --> 01:00:17,325
because of the demographic
changing.

1098
01:00:17,367 --> 01:00:20,829
There was a real time
when this town was torn.

1099
01:00:20,870 --> 01:00:24,499
Gay men were dying of AIDS,
and lesbians were moving in.

1100
01:00:24,541 --> 01:00:28,503
I remember the memorial service,

1101
01:00:28,545 --> 01:00:30,880
the listing of people, you know,

1102
01:00:30,922 --> 01:00:33,299
60 names long,
that had passed along.

1103
01:00:33,341 --> 01:00:38,096
Two pages of names for the
memorial service every year.

1104
01:00:38,596 --> 01:00:40,015
Two pages.

1105
01:00:40,056 --> 01:00:42,308
Lost a lot of friends.

1106
01:00:45,562 --> 01:00:48,523
And all I kept saying was,
"It is not fair

1107
01:00:48,565 --> 01:00:52,986
"to die from sex, that's a
ridiculous reason to die."

1108
01:00:56,197 --> 01:00:58,742
Oh, I think it put
us through a protracted

1109
01:00:58,783 --> 01:01:02,871
mourning period, and a
period of cohesiveness,

1110
01:01:02,912 --> 01:01:05,123
of coming together, we
discovered a sense

1111
01:01:05,165 --> 01:01:07,792
of responsibility and
caring for each other

1112
01:01:07,834 --> 01:01:09,961
that we were less aware of
prior.

1113
01:01:10,003 --> 01:01:11,338
Well, hello, buddies.

1114
01:01:11,379 --> 01:01:13,048
Welcome to our beautiful island.

1115
01:01:13,089 --> 01:01:17,469
Today is your day, please
use our island, use us.

1116
01:01:17,510 --> 01:01:19,304
We can't say how.

1117
01:01:19,346 --> 01:01:22,015
Have a great time,
we love you, thank you.

1118
01:01:33,234 --> 01:01:36,988
I think we, out here,
more than in the city,

1119
01:01:37,030 --> 01:01:40,784
felt a lot of compassion
for AIDS and HIV people.

1120
01:01:40,825 --> 01:01:42,911
I don't know why that is,
but that's how

1121
01:01:42,952 --> 01:01:45,914
I found it, I know on the
invasion, for instance,

1122
01:01:45,955 --> 01:01:49,709
people who were ill felt very
free to come

1123
01:01:49,751 --> 01:01:52,045
and participate in the
invasion, it was a free day

1124
01:01:52,087 --> 01:01:54,381
to have fun,
and I know in the city

1125
01:01:54,422 --> 01:01:57,133
people often didn't
go to public events

1126
01:01:57,175 --> 01:01:59,052
because they were so
self-conscious,

1127
01:01:59,094 --> 01:02:00,595
but I think out here
on the island

1128
01:02:00,637 --> 01:02:02,597
we all loved each other so much

1129
01:02:02,639 --> 01:02:06,184
that there was a certain
freedom about the experience.

1130
01:02:16,695 --> 01:02:18,655
The thing I love about the
Meat Rack is,

1131
01:02:18,697 --> 01:02:20,907
that I've heard from other
residents here,

1132
01:02:20,949 --> 01:02:22,826
is that so many people who
passed away

1133
01:02:22,867 --> 01:02:24,703
had their ashes spread there,

1134
01:02:24,744 --> 01:02:27,163
and that, to me, just
speaks volumes, like,

1135
01:02:27,205 --> 01:02:29,958
that is the final place
that they wanted to be.

1136
01:02:34,129 --> 01:02:37,298
I probably was lucky,
because I did

1137
01:02:37,340 --> 01:02:38,967
have a long-term relationship,

1138
01:02:39,009 --> 01:02:42,721
and that's probably what,
why I'm alive today.

1139
01:02:55,692 --> 01:02:58,278
Has the Meat
Rack changed over the years?

1140
01:02:58,319 --> 01:03:00,071
Yes, it has.

1141
01:03:01,239 --> 01:03:02,574
Well, I haven't
been there lately,

1142
01:03:02,615 --> 01:03:05,994
to be perfectly honest,
so I don't know

1143
01:03:06,036 --> 01:03:08,788
how much it's changed, but
I remember in the '70s,

1144
01:03:08,830 --> 01:03:11,332
it was packed on both
sides of Cherry Grove

1145
01:03:11,374 --> 01:03:13,585
and the Pines,
and a very active place,

1146
01:03:13,626 --> 01:03:16,129
and I think the activity
lessened over the years.

1147
01:03:16,171 --> 01:03:18,590
I don't think it is what it was,

1148
01:03:18,631 --> 01:03:21,343
but it's still there.

1149
01:03:21,384 --> 01:03:23,112
People are still joking
about the Meat Rack.

1150
01:03:23,136 --> 01:03:25,638
There's five people out
there, there's 20 people.

1151
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:28,850
You know, it's not
like in it's heyday

1152
01:03:28,892 --> 01:03:31,186
of gloriousness, I thought.

1153
01:03:31,227 --> 01:03:34,314
I mean, it used to be
a complete free-for-all,

1154
01:03:34,356 --> 01:03:36,483
in the best possible way.

1155
01:03:36,524 --> 01:03:40,070
And I think, you know,
that was probably tempered

1156
01:03:40,111 --> 01:03:43,156
a bit with the AIDS crisis.

1157
01:03:43,198 --> 01:03:44,783
My fear is that the Internet

1158
01:03:44,824 --> 01:03:47,118
has made the Meat Rack obsolete.

1159
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:48,220
It has changed over the years,

1160
01:03:48,244 --> 01:03:50,705
and I feel like with
Grindr and Scruff

1161
01:03:50,747 --> 01:03:52,957
and all of, like, the gay apps,

1162
01:03:52,999 --> 01:03:54,876
no one really needs to go out
and see each

1163
01:03:54,918 --> 01:03:58,296
other anymore,
and it's all just social

1164
01:03:58,338 --> 01:04:02,717
media interaction,
and they police it now.

1165
01:04:07,138 --> 01:04:08,473
What do you think about

1166
01:04:08,515 --> 01:04:10,558
people not being able to
lay naked on the beach,

1167
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,103
or them writing tickets in the
Meat Rack?

1168
01:04:13,144 --> 01:04:16,523
It's not the free

1169
01:04:18,191 --> 01:04:20,110
island that we had.

1170
01:04:30,537 --> 01:04:32,414
There's a lot less
freedom allowed here

1171
01:04:32,455 --> 01:04:35,000
in Cherry Grove in certain ways.

1172
01:04:35,041 --> 01:04:36,793
I find that any of
the freedoms that

1173
01:04:36,835 --> 01:04:39,295
used to be enjoyed for free,

1174
01:04:39,337 --> 01:04:41,089
you can still enjoy,
but they're mostly

1175
01:04:41,131 --> 01:04:43,633
in venues like the bars and
restaurants

1176
01:04:43,675 --> 01:04:45,468
in towns have nights
where you're allowed

1177
01:04:45,510 --> 01:04:47,512
to take off your clothes
and have sex onstage

1178
01:04:47,554 --> 01:04:49,305
and do whatever you
want, as long as you pay

1179
01:04:49,347 --> 01:04:51,891
the cover or you're
participating in somebody

1180
01:04:51,933 --> 01:04:53,476
making money off of it.

1181
01:04:53,518 --> 01:04:55,645
I find that there are
much less opportunities

1182
01:04:55,687 --> 01:04:58,773
to do that in the
traditional places that

1183
01:04:58,815 --> 01:05:00,751
that was done in Cherry
Grove, like the Meat Rack,

1184
01:05:00,775 --> 01:05:01,943
or even on the beach.

1185
01:05:06,573 --> 01:05:10,201
If nudity upsets you, you
shouldn't come to Fire Island.

1186
01:05:10,243 --> 01:05:13,163
This is our place to be free,

1187
01:05:13,204 --> 01:05:16,249
and that includes taking our
clothes off if we feel like it.

1188
01:05:20,795 --> 01:05:22,355
Recently, it seems
that there has been

1189
01:05:22,380 --> 01:05:27,093
a kind of heightened
enforcement of

1190
01:05:29,596 --> 01:05:33,308
regulations about nudity,
about loitering

1191
01:05:33,350 --> 01:05:36,770
in the Meat Rack,
and it seems like very,

1192
01:05:39,105 --> 01:05:41,149
on the surface, it seems
a little homophobic.

1193
01:05:47,197 --> 01:05:49,741
Because you're goin' right
back the way things were,

1194
01:05:49,783 --> 01:05:51,910
what, 50 years ago.

1195
01:05:55,580 --> 01:05:58,124
The more that we, as gay people,

1196
01:05:58,166 --> 01:06:01,211
become assimilated into
the rest of the population,

1197
01:06:01,252 --> 01:06:05,006
the more the subversive
or the underground

1198
01:06:05,048 --> 01:06:09,094
or the things that we did

1199
01:06:09,135 --> 01:06:11,680
that straight people object to

1200
01:06:11,721 --> 01:06:14,808
and still object to
will be cracked down on.

1201
01:06:22,357 --> 01:06:24,651
I don't consider the
Meat Rack public.

1202
01:06:24,693 --> 01:06:27,112
That's the way I look at it.

1203
01:06:27,153 --> 01:06:30,156
It's like, I know
about that from,

1204
01:06:30,198 --> 01:06:33,410
you know, like, the
first season I was here,

1205
01:06:33,451 --> 01:06:35,829
and we didn't go there.

1206
01:06:35,870 --> 01:06:37,205
It was that simple.

1207
01:06:41,376 --> 01:06:46,256
Government, and
governmental agencies love

1208
01:06:46,297 --> 01:06:49,384
to exercise their authority.

1209
01:06:49,426 --> 01:06:50,969
It's the only reason, sometimes,

1210
01:06:51,011 --> 01:06:53,054
that they feel like they're in
existence.

1211
01:06:55,932 --> 01:06:58,226
Why don't they go find
some of these terrorists

1212
01:06:58,268 --> 01:07:00,395
instead of bothering us?

1213
01:07:00,437 --> 01:07:03,356
I think the terrorists are
doin' more harm than havin' sex.

1214
01:07:06,943 --> 01:07:09,154
I do wonder, like,
what is the trade off

1215
01:07:10,613 --> 01:07:14,701
that we have now, that we
are so much more accepted,

1216
01:07:14,743 --> 01:07:16,453
that we can get married
in every state,

1217
01:07:16,494 --> 01:07:19,122
you know, like, there used
to be a kind of renegade

1218
01:07:19,164 --> 01:07:24,085
quality to being queer,
and as that lessens,

1219
01:07:25,420 --> 01:07:28,298
you know, I feel like
those kind of liberties

1220
01:07:28,340 --> 01:07:32,802
that we can take might get
diminished.

1221
01:07:45,774 --> 01:07:46,959
Do you think that Cherry Grove

1222
01:07:46,983 --> 01:07:49,569
is as important now
as it was in the '50s?

1223
01:07:49,611 --> 01:07:51,196
To me, it's very important.

1224
01:07:52,447 --> 01:07:55,575
I survived it here,
through all the years.

1225
01:07:55,617 --> 01:07:58,328
I felt that I was
accepted in this community

1226
01:07:58,370 --> 01:08:01,790
of Cherry Grove,
and this is where I live.

1227
01:08:01,831 --> 01:08:04,793
I may not live here 12
months out of the year,

1228
01:08:04,834 --> 01:08:06,437
but for the six-and-a-half
months I'm here,

1229
01:08:06,461 --> 01:08:09,422
this is my home,
these are my friends,

1230
01:08:09,464 --> 01:08:10,548
and this is my community.

1231
01:08:10,590 --> 01:08:12,509
I just love it here.

1232
01:08:12,550 --> 01:08:14,344
The biggest argument
that you'll hear

1233
01:08:14,386 --> 01:08:17,138
or discussion that
you always hear is that

1234
01:08:18,223 --> 01:08:20,350
gays can go anywhere
in the world,

1235
01:08:20,392 --> 01:08:22,268
so they don't need a
destination,

1236
01:08:22,310 --> 01:08:24,187
and I actually disagree.

1237
01:08:24,229 --> 01:08:26,940
The reason I come
here is because

1238
01:08:26,981 --> 01:08:28,942
it's a community of my fellows.

1239
01:08:28,983 --> 01:08:30,944
Even though there is more
widespread

1240
01:08:30,985 --> 01:08:33,321
LGBT acceptance,
you know, it has been

1241
01:08:33,363 --> 01:08:36,408
really powerful for me
as a queer woman

1242
01:08:36,449 --> 01:08:38,451
to be here, and to all
of a sudden be like,

1243
01:08:38,493 --> 01:08:41,204
oh, even in New York City,
where I live,

1244
01:08:41,246 --> 01:08:43,707
I don't feel as fully
comfortable

1245
01:08:43,748 --> 01:08:45,417
being out as I do here.

1246
01:08:45,458 --> 01:08:48,044
When I'm out with my partner
at dinner at a restaurant,

1247
01:08:48,086 --> 01:08:50,130
even in the part of
Brooklyn I live in,

1248
01:08:50,171 --> 01:08:52,549
which is very progressive,
there's still

1249
01:08:52,590 --> 01:08:55,385
a layer of shame
and a layer of, like,

1250
01:08:55,427 --> 01:08:58,179
that's so subtle and so deep,

1251
01:08:58,221 --> 01:09:00,432
I don't even notice
it until it's removed,

1252
01:09:00,473 --> 01:09:03,226
and when I come here,
it's sort of, like,

1253
01:09:03,268 --> 01:09:05,562
in the negative,
the absence of that

1254
01:09:05,603 --> 01:09:08,356
makes me aware that it was
there in the first place.

1255
01:09:08,398 --> 01:09:10,608
Now, you can kinda be gay
anywhere,

1256
01:09:10,650 --> 01:09:12,527
is what people think,
but even, you can't.

1257
01:09:12,569 --> 01:09:14,904
In the streets of New
York, you can't be gay.

1258
01:09:14,946 --> 01:09:17,699
You'll get called a faggot
and this and that everywhere.

1259
01:09:17,741 --> 01:09:19,260
You don't have to
worry about the judgment

1260
01:09:19,284 --> 01:09:22,495
quite as much, and I feel like
that's always been the draw.

1261
01:09:22,537 --> 01:09:26,458
I think it still
retains its tradition,

1262
01:09:26,499 --> 01:09:31,504
its importance, simply
because it reflects,

1263
01:09:32,672 --> 01:09:35,925
I think, the entire history

1264
01:09:35,967 --> 01:09:38,803
of the gay movement.

1265
01:09:38,845 --> 01:09:40,889
I've lived in New York
most of my adult life,

1266
01:09:40,930 --> 01:09:44,351
and I've seen neighborhoods
gentrify and change

1267
01:09:44,392 --> 01:09:48,021
and shift the value that
they bring to a community,

1268
01:09:48,063 --> 01:09:51,316
and I feel like that is
happening here,

1269
01:09:51,358 --> 01:09:56,112
but I don't think anyone
knows what the next

1270
01:09:56,154 --> 01:09:58,573
era will be for
Cherry Grove, like,

1271
01:09:58,615 --> 01:10:01,201
it might become a straight
community, it seems to me.

1272
01:10:07,791 --> 01:10:11,878
Being the majority is a
different kind of experience,

1273
01:10:13,463 --> 01:10:16,466
and it's important, I think,
that we have that experience,

1274
01:10:16,508 --> 01:10:19,636
and I think it's important
that we preserve and honor

1275
01:10:19,678 --> 01:10:22,514
and build upon the
culture and the roots

1276
01:10:22,555 --> 01:10:24,516
that were laid down
in the 1950s.

1277
01:10:45,328 --> 01:10:48,206
I really appreciate
what the people

1278
01:10:49,374 --> 01:10:52,419
did 50 years ago,
you know, to maintain

1279
01:10:52,460 --> 01:10:56,381
this for us,
so I would just say,

1280
01:10:56,423 --> 01:11:00,135
you know, like, keep it
for the next set of kids.

1281
01:11:00,176 --> 01:11:01,946
I remember my parents
telling me they walked

1282
01:11:01,970 --> 01:11:03,930
to school barefoot,
and I always think

1283
01:11:03,972 --> 01:11:05,282
when I'm talking to
young gay people,

1284
01:11:05,306 --> 01:11:06,766
it's the same thing, you know,

1285
01:11:06,808 --> 01:11:08,869
when I'm telling them what
it was like when I was young.

1286
01:11:08,893 --> 01:11:12,772
So, I try to avoid saying
something like that.

1287
01:11:12,814 --> 01:11:14,542
Because, in 50 years,
it's going to be something

1288
01:11:14,566 --> 01:11:17,861
completely different,
and it's gonna morph

1289
01:11:17,902 --> 01:11:20,280
into something wonderful,
but probably very

1290
01:11:20,321 --> 01:11:21,948
different than we know it today.

1291
01:11:31,541 --> 01:11:32,601
One of my favorite things is,

1292
01:11:32,625 --> 01:11:34,502
like, walking on the
beach at night.

1293
01:11:34,544 --> 01:11:36,504
I get to connect
with nature, it's quiet,

1294
01:11:36,546 --> 01:11:38,214
there's no one around,
it's just, like,

1295
01:11:38,256 --> 01:11:39,924
you and nature,
so I feel like if I could

1296
01:11:39,966 --> 01:11:43,136
never come back, the
last thing I would want

1297
01:11:43,178 --> 01:11:45,680
is, like, a night beach walk.

1298
01:11:45,722 --> 01:11:47,724
If I could never return to
Cherry Grove,

1299
01:11:48,808 --> 01:11:50,977
then I would die.

1300
01:11:51,019 --> 01:11:54,022
I don't know,
maybe start writing

1301
01:11:54,064 --> 01:11:56,191
little notes to myself, memoir.

1302
01:12:00,612 --> 01:12:03,239
Watch the sunset on the
Great South Bay, mm-hmm.

1303
01:12:10,205 --> 01:12:13,667
I would wanna kiss the little

1304
01:12:13,708 --> 01:12:16,961
chameleon that I
have on the door there

1305
01:12:17,003 --> 01:12:19,798
and wish it luck,
wish the house luck.

1306
01:12:19,839 --> 01:12:22,425
I think have my
ashes thrown in the bay.

1307
01:12:24,469 --> 01:12:25,469
That would be it.

1308
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:36,064
I would have to walk to
the beach to see the ocean.

1309
01:12:40,694 --> 01:12:44,864
I would just look back and
think of all the good times.

1310
01:12:46,700 --> 01:12:47,968
The best thing that
I've ever gotten out

1311
01:12:47,992 --> 01:12:49,619
of Cherry Grove is the
relationships that

1312
01:12:49,661 --> 01:12:51,461
I've formed with other
people, so I think that

1313
01:12:51,496 --> 01:12:53,415
that's how I would
enjoy my last time here,

1314
01:12:53,456 --> 01:12:55,333
is being with the people here.

1315
01:12:57,752 --> 01:13:01,381
Kiss my house goodbye.

1316
01:13:01,423 --> 01:13:02,799
I don't know what it would be,

1317
01:13:02,841 --> 01:13:05,719
because I hope that day never
comes.

1318
01:13:51,389 --> 01:13:53,350
The last thing
I would like to do

1319
01:13:53,391 --> 01:13:56,144
in Cherry Grove
if I can't return.

1320
01:13:57,937 --> 01:13:59,689
I'd keep singing.

1321
01:13:59,731 --> 01:14:01,816
Keep writing my column, I don't,

1322
01:14:01,858 --> 01:14:04,986
I'm not leaving.

1323
01:14:06,988 --> 01:14:11,576
♪ I feel a song comin' on ♪

1324
01:14:12,827 --> 01:14:16,748
♪ It's a melody full
of the laughter ♪

1325
01:14:16,790 --> 01:14:20,835
♪ Of children out
after the rain ♪

1326
01:14:20,877 --> 01:14:25,340
♪ I hear a tuneful story ♪

1327
01:14:25,382 --> 01:14:27,717
♪ Ringin' through ya ♪

1328
01:14:27,759 --> 01:14:29,761
♪ Love and glory ♪

1329
01:14:29,803 --> 01:14:31,846
♪ Hallelujah ♪

1330
01:14:31,888 --> 01:14:36,768
♪ And now that
my troubles are gone ♪

1331
01:14:38,186 --> 01:14:42,190
♪ Let those heavenly
drums go on drummin' ♪

1332
01:14:42,232 --> 01:14:47,237
♪ 'Cause I feel a song ♪

1333
01:14:48,488 --> 01:14:53,910
♪ Comin' on ♪

1334
01:14:54,305 --> 01:15:54,267
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