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What is nudity to me?

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I'm trying to undress how

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I think of nudity
because I realise it has been

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taught to me according to my gender,

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my skin colour, my size, my weight.

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What does nudity mean?

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Taboo, inflammatory material,

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exposure?

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Who is allowed to be nude

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and why?

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Well, the bodies that we are

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told are beautiful

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are such a narrow part
of the diversity of bodies.

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Liberation or oppression?

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How much strength and power
is there in nudity?

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It was always like the odd one out.
I was never as skinny

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as anybody. I never looked like
anyone around me.

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And grew up very religious.

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Beauty or shame?

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Is skin without a cover a piece

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of individual freedom?

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I feel like being so exposed

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right from the start

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makes me feel very connected
to the people here.

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The naked body -
a historical battlefield.

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FOR THOSE BANNED FROM THE POOL
WHEN THEY'RE TOPLESS

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I think it's really important,
as we're so vulnerable,

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and naked, to listen to each other.

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And I've always found that someone
or multiple people

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are always saying something
that I need to hear in this moment.

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Watch Online Movies and Series for FREE
www.osdb.link/lm

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I don't think I would necessarily
like to be naked more often,

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I think I would like to be freer

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in being naked.
We also have the pubic hair,

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the labia,

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that is already completely
built into our language.

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A feeling of shame
is something unpleasant,

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it triggers stress in me.
When I know

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I'm in a setting

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where I'm not really allowed
to be naked.

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I missed the most
diverse body shapes.

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Different skin colours,

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hair.

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I didn't even let
my first armpit hair

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grow out fully

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before I shaved it off completely.

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For me, that was also tainted
with shame

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and was not allowed to exist.

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And that hurts me.

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This is gonna be
our shooting space here.

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Which I lowkey

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- tried to prepare already...
- We're gonna do stuff here.

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Yeah.

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We have, like, a lot of furniture

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we can use. I am planning
to work with the table,

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I am planning
to work with these chairs.

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My name is Annina Tonkov.

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I come from Berlin.
I am 28 years old

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and I am a psychologist
by profession.

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I do nude photography

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because I like working with people

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when they can

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take everything off themselves,

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so to speak.
You can psychologically analyse

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or explain many aspects of nudity

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and also

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work with them.

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Mara and Gami are friends.

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They don't always feel
at home in their bodies.

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Both are non-binary

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and do not see themselves
as men or women.

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Having their bodies photographed
naked is like therapy for them.

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When I am nude,
it's like I'm a lot more relaxed

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in some way.

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As a non-binary person,
I think

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that I feel more dysphoria

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when I'm wearing
certain types of clothes.

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Like, especially with my chest.

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I feel like there are outfits that
I just want to like,

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put my boobs on a shelf
for a little bit and then

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put them back on again.

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But I found that, like,

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when I am nude...
they are just kind of there,

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they are just, like, a part
of my whole body

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because everything is exposed,
I guess.

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I just thought

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that clothes in particular

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are a form of gender expression.

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Without the clothes,
we just feel naked as we are

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and don't feel the need

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to somehow put our identity

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out there because

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that's just the way
we are as human beings.

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No matter whether male,
female, non-binary.

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I brought a bathing suit

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because nudity as such

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is not to be understood
but only in relation to clothing.

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I think being naked

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and what it means
can be perceived very differently.

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You have to distinguish

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between people who undress
themselves and how they feel

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and what

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the view from the outside
does to these bodies.

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The problem is that we are all

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always read in a certain way.

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And we may not like it,

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but it's quite difficult
to oppose those looks.

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The main focus of my research
for a very long time

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was on things like bias, prejudice,
intergroup relations,

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which is very important.
But it's also very sad,

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looking up all the reasons why
people are terrible to each other.

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That's not fun.

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So I decided that
it was time to start

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doing research
on more enjoyable things.

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Things that worked for people,
that brought people's spirits up.

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And I stumbled into
the nudity space.

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{\an8}So I've observed that many societies

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{\an8}have layers of shame
around various kinds of behaviour

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{\an8}and that shame is a good way
of telling who belongs

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to your society and who doesn't.

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Nudity is a social
and cultural construction.

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Because being naked
is objectively a state

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that doesn't cause shame,
it's natural.

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So the feeling of shame is learned.

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I think it's really important

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that each person first gets
the space to come around.

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Most people are totally nervous,

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especially when they do it

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to confront their own nakedness.

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Where does it come from -

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shame about one's own naked body?

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Is it innate or a concept?

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I believe that stories like
Adam and Eve are already a piece

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of coagulated life experience
of humanity.

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It goes back to the seventh century,

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and the first oral versions
were certainly even older.

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People simply wanted
to explain various things about life

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to each other.

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Why is life so tedious?

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Why can births be painful?

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Why is shame like that?

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And then there is
the story of Adam

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and Eve and the Fall.

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Adam and Eve become aware

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of their own nakedness

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when they are thrown out of paradise

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and become ashamed.

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So you can say that
in the Christian tradition,

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nakedness and shame

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is the start of human history.

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- Hello.
- Hello.

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Nice to see you. OK.

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Huh?

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Yeah.

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We're just gonna try this.
I have no idea

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if it makes sense
or if it works out.

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Like you can first go inside, like,

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take care that you're,
yeah, exactly.

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If you can't hold it anymore,
tell me.

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But then something
really interesting happens:

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the relaxation sets in

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when the person realises that
they simply have

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to concentrate on something else.

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There is no longer the space

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to worry about being naked.

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I mean, it's just a flute.

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And I was so anxious
about playing it at first,

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but every time I play it around
other people, I get less anxious.

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And in some ways,
that's a nice metaphor

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for our own bodies and how we feel
about other people seeing them.

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And so nakedness comes in or rather,
I'd say a certain kind of nakedness,

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so naturism comes in,

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and that's a kind of communal nudity

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without necessarily
an expectation of sexuality.

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And then things change.

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You have people responding
to your naked body,

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and you can see
other people's naked bodies.

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And they're not in magazines,
they're not on television,

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they're just normal naked people.

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You feel a lot less anxious
about your own body.

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I haven't found any evidence
that gender is negative

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when it comes to the positive
effects of nudity in any way.

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You can still - yeah, like this,
you can still look to me.

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At the latest
with this Christian myth

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of Adam and Eve, it was clear:

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Eve is something secondary

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created from Adam's rib.

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This subordination of the woman

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means that her nakedness
always means something different

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to male nakedness.

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I think at the end of the day,

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it's the old white men who say:

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this is OK,
and this is not OK.

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For me, nudity has to do with power,

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that I believe that people

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who want to show themselves naked...

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should decide what they want
to express with it.

198
00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:08,040
It has something very, like, Greek

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00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,280
God statue.

200
00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,880
Nudity reveals the beauty ideals
of every era.

201
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,000
Nudity

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00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,880
in ancient Greece was indeed

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a special feature.

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00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,080
In this respect,
one can say

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00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,360
that ancient Greece
normalised nudity

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00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:35,080
in certain areas in public.

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It is a special phenomenon,

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00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,120
but at the same time,
it resulted in many exclusions.

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00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,640
Because, for example,
the ageing body

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00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,240
was something that was not
highly valued in ancient Greece.

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00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,440
In Europe, nudity is not forbidden.

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00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,280
However, it is compulsory to cover
one's sexual features in public.

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00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,720
Breaking this taboo is provocative.

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00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:09,360
And it draws attention

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00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:12,080
to social grievances.

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00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,680
- It looks super nice.
- It looks so good.

217
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,760
Yes, the poster is fab.

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00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,680
I think it's good. But I think
"femicide" is better -

219
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,440
But I'll get it on my body.

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00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,360
I'm not embarrassed at all.

221
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,640
And I have never been ashamed.

222
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,640
I always thought nudity was good.

223
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,280
I still like being naked today.

224
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,640
My name is Barbara,
I am 68 years old

225
00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,520
and I feel very much a feminist.

226
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,920
Nudity as a political tool:

227
00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,800
FEMEN call themselves
a global women's movement.

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00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,040
Their protest slogans are written
on their naked torsos.

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Flower wreaths in the hair
are reminiscent

230
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,480
of the first FEMEN in Ukraine.

231
00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:06,320
Undressing to be heard,

232
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:07,760
to be seen.

233
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,200
{\an8}This is political.
The nudity of women.

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00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:16,640
{\an8}I would say

235
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,720
{\an8}since women started to take
responsibility for their bodies.

236
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,200
So I connect here

237
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,480
Paula Modersohn Becker
with Suzanne Valadon,

238
00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:27,800
both painters at the end
of the 19th century.

239
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,120
Valadon was first and foremost
a model

240
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,520
for great painters
of the late 19th century.

241
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,360
Then she decided
to become a painter herself,

242
00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:40,920
so she went from being an object
to being a subject.

243
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,240
And as a painter,
she wanted to represent herself,

244
00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:45,280
especially topless, to show:

245
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,240
this is my own body
that I am showing naked.

246
00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:49,720
That's what was fantastic.

247
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:51,840
Nudity has been politicised
again and again

248
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,720
in all sorts of directions

249
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,400
for National Socialist fantasies
of racial improvement,

250
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,200
through the dropping of bras
in the second wave

251
00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,120
of the women's movement.

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00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,000
Nudity can take on
political functions,

253
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,720
can be politicised.

254
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:09,320
After all,
everything is political,

255
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,000
but then that
doesn't tell the story.

256
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,440
I think the only people
who think things aren't political

257
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,520
are people who are
so wonderfully enshrouded

258
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:18,840
their own privilege
that they know

259
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,800
no political decision
in their lifetime

260
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,320
will ever affect them negatively.

261
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,680
So of course, nudity is political.

262
00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:28,360
Choose your fighter.

263
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,480
With you we have so much space
and you take the shortest...

264
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,720
Stop violence against women...

265
00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,560
We can write, "Women are killed
because you don't do your job".

266
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,240
But, really.

267
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,840
In many nude protests,

268
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,120
even if they are women,

269
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,040
we see young,

270
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,120
slim women

271
00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,560
who are read as sexy

272
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,800
and who have the possibility
of attracting attention,

273
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,840
also in the media.

274
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,840
{\an8}So to speak,
the self-dramatisation as sexy

275
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,120
{\an8}is only available to certain women.

276
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,320
{\an8}And that has to do with age

277
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,480
and also classic aesthetic norms.

278
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,520
I have the impression
that FEMEN in particular

279
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,120
do not exclude women.

280
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,840
My friend Judith
is a bit younger than me,

281
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,280
but she is also a bit more corpulent

282
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,960
and she could also come.
And it's not about beauty either.

283
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,600
I've just noticed

284
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,400
that it's always about breasts here,

285
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:39,880
and I don't have a burden

286
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,760
with that at all. I have problems
with being so fat.

287
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:44,160
And...

288
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:46,880
that irritates me
massively right now.

289
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,040
I'm also the only
overweight person here -

290
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,520
everyone else is slim.

291
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:54,680
And yes:

292
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:56,600
it is quite a challenge.

293
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,720
I would like to go home.

294
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,960
So I feel quite brave
being here somehow.

295
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,120
Nudity is brutal.

296
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:08,560
Depending on how you...

297
00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,680
which form of nudity you choose

298
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,000
and which way you want to go
with nudity.

299
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,800
I get different feedback,
also from older women:

300
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,120
Do you show your naked breasts?
Could it be done differently?

301
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,680
The slogans we have today,

302
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,520
"Women are being killed
because you don't do your job!"

303
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,920
"Act now - stop femicide! Act now!"

304
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,600
I have often been called

305
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:49,680
a human trafficker on Twitter,
unfortunately.

306
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,920
That's how far ignorance goes!

307
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,000
My name is Paulita Pappel.

308
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:56,320
I always wanted to do porn

309
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,160
but thought it was the tool
of the patriarchy

310
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:00,560
to exploit women.

311
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,400
I had this conflict in me,
thought something was wrong with me.

312
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,040
Then I came to Berlin,

313
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,600
met sex-positive, feminist,

314
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,000
queer women who did porn

315
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,400
as part of their practice.

316
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,720
And that was the moment
when it somehow all made sense

317
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:18,360
and I said, "OK,

318
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,000
I can be a feminist
and also do porn".

319
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:24,320
The stricter

320
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,120
the sexual morality of a society,

321
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,720
the more abysmal
the double standard.

322
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,000
{\an8}So when in ancient texts,

323
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,960
{\an8}a people describes another people

324
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,080
{\an8}and wants to make them look bad,

325
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,080
{\an8}this is very often done
by making them look

326
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,080
morally contemptible as well.

327
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,160
A typical example of this

328
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,280
from the Old Testament
is the Whore of Babylon.

329
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,040
The Babylonians then became

330
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,400
the epitome of the wicked,

331
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,240
even though it was a high culture.

332
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,320
These fantasies:
Everyone there is naked,

333
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,920
everyone has intercourse
with each other

334
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,600
and that Babylon is actually
like a huge brothel,

335
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,920
which is of course,
culturally not true.

336
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,280
But it was an attempt
to make this hostile people

337
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:09,600
look contemptible.

338
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,200
Good.

339
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,360
Paulita stages pornography -

340
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,600
behind and in front of the camera.

341
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,440
She is concerned
with freedom and fairness

342
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,120
in nudity and sexuality.

343
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,960
Nudity is something I grew up with

344
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,240
quite freely in my family,
on the nudist beach with my parents,

345
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,680
which is unusual for Spain.

346
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,720
I mean, I come from a big city.

347
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,200
Madrid is not a village.

348
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:40,200
And yet,

349
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,040
it's still Catholic, and that's full

350
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,320
of shame and guilt.

351
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,160
I mean, my father grew up thinking,
if he masturbated

352
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:50,320
he would go blind.

353
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,560
I was a men's speaker

354
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,040
for a long time, dealing with topics
such as men, women and sexuality.

355
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,760
And at some point I noticed
how many naked people

356
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,120
there are in our churches.

357
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,400
And that's when I became curious.

358
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,280
The 19th century is really

359
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,360
the century of prudery.

360
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,280
On the one hand,
there was the Church, which rejected

361
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,480
everything modern in any way,
and was always

362
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:16,560
opposed to it.

363
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,320
That's how the great
bourgeois morality

364
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,800
really first emerged.
Immanuel Kant,

365
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:24,200
the supreme enlightener,

366
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,440
himself wrote that masturbation

367
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,720
was even worse than suicide.

368
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,080
I mean it's just very different, no?

369
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:36,760
I feel like a Jackson.

370
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,560
Paulita's goal is equality,

371
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,280
in porn, too.

372
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,240
She is looking for a way to film sex

373
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,360
without erotic clichés.

374
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,440
Nudity is one of them.

375
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,200
For me personally,

376
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,840
nudity doesn't necessarily
have anything to do with porn.

377
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,640
My concept of pornography

378
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,480
says a porno

379
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,680
can be totally sexy

380
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,720
and arousing
without showing nudity.

381
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,440
I like the emphasis on clothing.
I think it also brings out

382
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,000
the power of the nudity, too.

383
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,800
And how clothes kind of wear us
and how we wear them

384
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,400
and it really, like, shows the body
in different ways.

385
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,760
I think, like, there is almost
nothing, like, sexier than that.

386
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,400
No, no, no, no.

387
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,000
The story is,
we are in a fashion shoot.

388
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,240
We are three models
trying to do the shoot,

389
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,600
and the director is freaking out
all the time.

390
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,080
He wants more passion, connection,
wants, more, more, more.

391
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,600
Until he leads us to just having sex
with each other.

392
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,280
- Perfect.
- That's it!

393
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:51,680
Yes.

394
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,360
Sex work and open sexuality -

395
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,200
in ancient times,
that was everyday culture.

396
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,520
Pornography in that sense,
I think, only emerges

397
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,040
where sexuality

398
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,440
is very strongly restricted

399
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:22,800
as an outlet.

400
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:26,600
In Pompeii, I think that
was still a matter of course.

401
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,760
This bourgeois unity of everything,

402
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,120
as we are used to today,

403
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:33,800
simply didn't exist back then.

404
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,400
That's why the geologist there
in Pompeii

405
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,000
was so surprised

406
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,680
as obviously

407
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,640
the penis on the wall as a signpost
and so on.

408
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,720
That was a normal part
of the culture at that time.

409
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,720
And if you want to look
at the paintings today,

410
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,440
you have to look for
the adult section.

411
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:02,680
Now in a metaphorical sense,

412
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,280
I would say about nakedness,

413
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,360
that it is perhaps a vulnerability,

414
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,520
but that in turn

415
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,040
can be a position of power.

416
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,560
I think it takes courage
to be naked or vulnerable.

417
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,520
I think people who are unwilling

418
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,120
to do that
are people who are afraid.

419
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,000
And I think someone

420
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,360
who is willing
to be vulnerable or naked

421
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:27,840
has power

422
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,000
because there is no fear behind it.

423
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,680
And you know that vulnerability

424
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,320
is part of life
and part of being human.

425
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,960
Being sexualised
is definitely my issue too.

426
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,760
I find that totally horrible.

427
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,680
For me, one of the fascinations

428
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,600
of nude photography

429
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,480
is to separate
the body from sexuality.

430
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,320
And I think that's also

431
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,120
one of the big problems

432
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,800
in our society,
that you're quickly reduced

433
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,440
to your body parts

434
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,960
and that's just an incredibly
unpleasant feeling.

435
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,000
Just being naked together -

436
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:16,880
is that a state of liberation?

437
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,400
Can shared nudity
even be more intimate than sex?

438
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,640
What do you feel more like,
a mattress or a table?

439
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:25,880
Ooh!

440
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,960
- Yes, around the table.
- Yeah?

441
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,080
It feels, like, very summery
and very relaxed in a way.

442
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,960
Like, I haven't felt like,
as though these

443
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,120
positions are at all, like, sexual,

444
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,280
it's more like, I think about it
from the outside perspective.

445
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,200
Like, I guess you could see
it that way.

446
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:54,160
But...

447
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,920
yeah, I think
there's, like, a warmth to them

448
00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:00,800
that I think is... like, portrays

449
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,320
that sort of outdoor feel,

450
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,120
I guess, if that's like
an embodied thing.

451
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,320
But yeah, not sexual to me.

452
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:11,920
I grew up in Jamaica,

453
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,240
and Jamaicans are typically
more conservative

454
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,480
than Europeans, let's say Germans,

455
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:17,960
around nudity.

456
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,520
Jamaicans are very comfortable

457
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,440
with people seeing us
in bathing suits, for example.

458
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,320
{\an8}Growing up, I saw a lot
of my teachers, my friends,

459
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,280
{\an8}my relatives in bathing suits,
in bikinis. That was normal.

460
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,160
In many other countries,
that's not normal.

461
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:34,400
But we don't consider that
a level of nudity.

462
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,040
We consider that to be normal attire
for a particular situation.

463
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,480
And I point that out to say
that cultures go up and down,

464
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,360
that nudity isn't just showing flesh
or showing skin.

465
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,480
It's about what's appropriate
for a particular time.

466
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,840
And I know personally, some people

467
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,480
in nature spaces,
particularly in the UK,

468
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,960
who will repeatedly say
that nudity is non-sexual.

469
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,480
It's a very, very,
clearly defined tenant

470
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,040
of the things that they believe.

471
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,840
Of course, in other cultures,
people strongly disagree.

472
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,680
I think the attempt to simplify it

473
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,600
has led to very, very
unhelpful discourse.

474
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,480
And that is important when it comes
to nudity because nudity

475
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,040
makes the body visible.

476
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:20,800
So it's also always about
certain gaze regimes.

477
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:23,520
Who looks and who is looked at.

478
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,880
I like this a lot.
This is very nice.

479
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,760
I like when you look bossy.

480
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,880
As a Black person,
I get asked weird questions

481
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,200
about my body all the time.

482
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,120
I think the representation of bodies

483
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,440
in nudity is incredibly important.

484
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,280
Especially at a young age
when you're still being taught

485
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:46,720
how you're supposed to be,

486
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,880
how you're supposed
to look and act -

487
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,400
it's a question of how

488
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,800
comfortable you are in your skin
later in life

489
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,920
and not thinking that it might
be wrong to be who you are.

490
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,080
How is nudity read?

491
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,400
Those who look can also be guilty:

492
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,840
for not every naked body
is historically the same.

493
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,600
The surface of the skin
can be a mirror -

494
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,000
for the relationship
between power and powerlessness.

495
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,480
A Black body that is naked

496
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,440
bears history,

497
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,880
a white body, the norm.

498
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,200
So there,
the history is invisible.

499
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,480
In this context,
the representation of nudity plays

500
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,360
an extremely important role

501
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,720
because we cannot separate

502
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,760
knowledge and power,

503
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,280
and because

504
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,320
history has been inscribed

505
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,600
on the surface of the skin.

506
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,520
Stories that we have to learn
to read beyond nudity.

507
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,080
Black people, Black bodies -

508
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,360
a rarity in European painting.

509
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,160
And thus in our history.

510
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:02,440
Natasha Kelly asks why.

511
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,360
This painting Die schlafende Milli
inspired her.

512
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,280
The painting was created in 1911
by Ernst Ludwig Kirchner -

513
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,320
at the height of German colonialism.

514
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,400
It captured me.

515
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,000
But it also froze me.

516
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,320
I immediately saw myself reflected
in Milli.

517
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,800
So, I saw myself mirrored, actually.

518
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,440
Which is not often the case
when it comes to art

519
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,720
or art historical works,

520
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,840
for there to be Black women
depicted at all.

521
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,280
And I was then suddenly drawn into
my own memories,

522
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,920
what my own nakedness means,

523
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:42,760
what being naked means to me.

524
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,400
{\an8}IS MILLI'S STORY MY STORY?
OUR STORY?

525
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,360
{\an8}WHICH STORIES ARE ACTUALLY TOLD?

526
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,560
{\an8}I asked myself the question:
Who was Milli?

527
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,520
{\an8}And found out

528
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,800
{\an8}there are very many Millis

529
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,720
and that Milli must have actually
been a term of endearment

530
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,760
for Black women at that time.

531
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,560
If we look at the different Millis

532
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,480
only in Kirchner's works,

533
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,840
they all look different,
have different body shapes,

534
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,120
different phenotypical
characteristics.

535
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,840
It can't have been

536
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,520
the same woman.

537
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,640
But the paintings
are all subtitled Milli.

538
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,200
We as Black people
were not human enough.

539
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,040
We were not interesting enough

540
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,760
to actually be researched in detail

541
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,800
and in our identity,

542
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,880
which is why

543
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,960
the research is actually lacking.

544
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,920
Every little detail

545
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:48,480
of paintings by the Brücke artists

546
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,960
have been analysed in detail,

547
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,240
but Black people have not.

548
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,640
Black people in old Europe -

549
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,480
most of them were taken
from their homeland,

550
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,360
many of them exhibited:

551
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,000
in human zoos

552
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,120
and so-called freak shows.

553
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,760
Their naked bodies were dissected -

554
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,440
like those of animals.

555
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,120
In her performances, for example,

556
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,120
Sarah Bartmann was forced
to present herself to her audience

557
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,920
with her legs wide apart

558
00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:28,120
on stage.

559
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,080
And it was also women, not just men,

560
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,800
who really looked between her legs,

561
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,760
examined her,

562
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,680
with the aim of understanding

563
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,280
their own body better.

564
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,120
What I would like to see

565
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:46,920
is that

566
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,160
when it comes to
questions of nudity,

567
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,440
things are not so generalised.

568
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,840
That nudity is not automatically

569
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,240
equated with freedom.

570
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,000
In public,

571
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,160
nudity has always been used

572
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,120
to shame,

573
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,880
torture or degrade people.

574
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,040
As a humiliation ritual

575
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,360
in torture, for example.

576
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,640
Because we live in societies
where clothing

577
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,440
is the norm,
and nudity is abnormal,

578
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,240
so to speak.

579
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,960
So self-empowerment and humiliation:

580
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,600
Both become visible
or can become visible in nudity.

581
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,640
It is not only about how we look,

582
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,480
but also about
what we have experienced.

583
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,320
So many people

584
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,440
don't relate well to their bodies

585
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,120
because they have
experienced violence

586
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,840
or because
they have experienced pain.

587
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:03,440
And that is also part of it.

588
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:07,760
Anni is an interview guest

589
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,800
in a floating sauna for the podcast

590
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,400
Splitterfasernackt.

591
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,840
The sauna as a place
for intimate conversations -

592
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,320
unclothed.

593
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,120
Actually, it was more a crazy idea

594
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,440
of Lea's and mine,
that we sat together

595
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,200
in a public sauna at some point

596
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,960
and had the room all to ourselves
and realised

597
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,640
that we hadn't known each other long
but we were talking intimately.

598
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,360
We thought that would be
a cool social experiment.

599
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,320
It's also such a closed space.

600
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,120
Especially when we record podcasts,
we don't do it in public saunas.

601
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,760
That means you know
no one else can get in,

602
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,080
and that's how it is.

603
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:53,680
Cosy and safe.

604
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,560
Where are my boundaries of shame?

605
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,200
Good question...

606
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,320
If I know I'm in a room with people

607
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,120
for whom it's OK that I'm naked,

608
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,720
that we're naked,

609
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,440
in the sauna for example,
I'm not ashamed

610
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,120
of my naked body.

611
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:20,760
Yes.

612
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,360
A flame!

613
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,760
Welcome to Splitterfasernackt

614
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:28,280
with Anni Tonkov

615
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,520
or Anni Analog.

616
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,440
We've already
reached the point where

617
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,000
our guests
introduce themselves.

618
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,320
Keywords like "nude"

619
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,280
and "nude photo"
are often searched for online.

620
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,920
Nudity attracts the curious

621
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:47,600
and the voyeurs.

622
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,040
How do you find out
about your models?

623
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,960
Do they contact you directly?
Or there are things like,

624
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,120
you do the shoot
and get into conversation.

625
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,680
Do you say you are a psychologist?
Or what?

626
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,920
I receive many enquiries
from people,

627
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,520
some of whom I have
already spoken to

628
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,400
directly about their experiences,

629
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,320
to explain why they are interested

630
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,520
in the shoot with me
in the first place.

631
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,080
So you go to a naked event and you

632
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,480
find all the people who are
participating in the event

633
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,320
and you measure them,
their self esteem, their body image,

634
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,800
their overall life satisfaction
before and after,

635
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,840
and you find that it goes up
after the event.

636
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,720
And so we know scientifically

637
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,120
that these are effects
that are reliable,

638
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,560
that are detectable, are repeatable
and that will happen

639
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,560
for varieties of different people

640
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,800
across different places
and even different cultures.

641
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,520
So that is quite good.

642
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,080
No one is completely naked
in the sauna today

643
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:57,360
because of the camera.

644
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,560
Jutta and Lea have already reaped

645
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,720
a lot of hate comments online
for their naked podcast -

646
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,040
even though they are only heard.

647
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,840
Naked in videos -
that's too risky for them.

648
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,120
Just because I'm OK in my nakedness

649
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,640
doesn't mean everyone else is,
unfortunately.

650
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,160
The idea that someone
would somehow

651
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,480
see us completely naked on TV

652
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,080
and then on social media,
they'd be hammering away

653
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,080
about how we've lost
all their respect

654
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,200
and that we can't be
taken seriously anymore,

655
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,920
that no one should ever hire us

656
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,840
or what people would like to do

657
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,040
with our naked bodies.

658
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,640
I'm really not up for that.

659
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,720
So, sexting

660
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,520
and what I call non-consensual
porn, because a lot of it

661
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,640
doesn't have anything to do
with revenge, it's just

662
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,840
people putting up images
of others in a non-consensual way.

663
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,240
We've always, unfortunately,
in society had people who would

664
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:58,880
abuse others who would share

665
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:00,600
images non-consensually,

666
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,840
who would share information
non-consensually.

667
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,360
And having developed the technology
to such an extent,

668
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,280
this is now a new part of it.

669
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,240
{\an8}And it's all the same old worries.
Who can you trust?

670
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,960
{\an8}How much do you share?
What are you safe doing?

671
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,680
{\an8}But now we have a digital platform
that makes it easy to share

672
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,040
a thousand videos a day,

673
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:20,360
with millions or billions of people

674
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:21,600
with almost no effort,

675
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,360
that now lasts forever

676
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,520
in the cloud and will never go away.

677
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,640
There is chaos at the moment.

678
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,000
The issue here

679
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:31,960
is nudity,
as well as other issues.

680
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,680
What do we censor?
What are we not censoring?

681
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,760
Especially on social media,

682
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,640
the narrative prevails

683
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,200
that nudity definitely
has something to do with sexuality

684
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,960
or eroticism and that therefore

685
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,400
the female nipple must not be shown
and that makes me angry.

686
00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:50,040
Because I am the way I am,

687
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:52,960
I didn't choose to have
female nipples,

688
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,440
whatever they are.

689
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,560
And I want them to be allowed

690
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,160
to exist outside

691
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:00,960
of the sexual context.

692
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,800
Stop femicide!

693
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,240
Stop femicide!

694
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,920
That's exactly the picture
that comes to mind,

695
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:19,880
they are all standing
against a wall,

696
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,280
with their backs to us.

697
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,840
And I thought it was so good
how they all stood there.

698
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,920
It was like, "Kiss our *ss".

699
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,560
In May 1968,
there was no feminism.

700
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,760
Feminism came later.

701
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,680
That is why there is
a global demand

702
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,720
for revolution on the issue
of bare breasts.

703
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:41,840
It is global!

704
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,880
We have often considered 1968
a sexual revolution.

705
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,160
This is extremely exhausting
for contemporary witnesses like me.

706
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,720
Because it's nothing more
than a cliché

707
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,760
and the reduction
to something unimportant.

708
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,560
I fled Iran in 2017,

709
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,960
I was target of femicide
and survived.

710
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,680
Instead my mum became

711
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,720
the victim of femicide.

712
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,040
She was murdered

713
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:09,240
on 8 March 2017.

714
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,640
My mother was born
to be someone's daughter.

715
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,000
She had a baby
to become someone's mother.

716
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,400
She became someone for everyone,

717
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,680
but she was left alone.

718
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,880
Let's say #MeToo is part

719
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,000
of this long journey

720
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,280
of re-appropriation

721
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,040
of women's bodies
since the end of the 19th century.

722
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:38,320
Everything is a logical continuation

723
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,680
of what has happened
in the last two centuries.

724
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:43,480
It's not an aberration,

725
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,080
it's not incomprehensible,

726
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,400
it's part of the logic
of emancipation.

727
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,840
Stop femicide! End now!

728
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,160
I think yes,
it has become more prudish.

729
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,400
Today, for example,
we were travelling by steamer

730
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,800
and there was a group of women
over there

731
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,280
who were very dressed up.

732
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,120
They looked away right away.
One of them held the flowers

733
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:07,480
like this and looked away.

734
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,280
I'd say I've never experienced
anything like that before.

735
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,480
So historically, nudity

736
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,560
ultimately tells us
who has power

737
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,280
and who is able

738
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,520
to impose it on others.

739
00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:20,960
So it can be the Church,

740
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,800
it can be the state,
it can be a social group.

741
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,840
In a way, that means

742
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,200
that their idea of nudity is the one
that is declared legitimate.

743
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,720
Niki de Saint-Phalles said,

744
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,280
"My breasts are shields".

745
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,000
What exactly is she saying
about women's bodies?

746
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,200
She says, "My breasts are shields",

747
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,120
without motherhood or sexuality -
they are my protection.

748
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:44,400
I like that.

749
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:46,480
Act now!

750
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,160
For me, it means: really look
at what it's really about.

751
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,680
And now I could really look -

752
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,640
and we even write it on our bodies.

753
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:18,080
Before we get started
and sit down for dinner,

754
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,080
we are going to move our bodies
a little bit. I found that

755
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,440
moving and shaking our energy around

756
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,040
has really...

757
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,000
helps me get comfortable.

758
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:31,160
So we'll do something
called Gagadance.

759
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,560
"The Fude experience":

760
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,200
everyone eats, dances
and paints -

761
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:38,400
naked.

762
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,200
Host Charlie Ann Max
enjoys the shared experience.

763
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,480
It's my favourite
when people are very scared

764
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,920
because they always
do feel a lot more

765
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,680
transformed and liberated
and free,

766
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,120
especially by seeing
all different types of body shapes

767
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,040
and all different kinds of people
from all walks of life,

768
00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:00,320
different ages.

769
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,000
It's like

770
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,120
being on a catwalk.

771
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:09,880
You come in
and all these people

772
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,920
are already there.
But it wasn't like that at all

773
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,680
because everyone
was already interacting.

774
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,040
And you're also kind of looking.

775
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:20,960
Your eyes wander everywhere

776
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,640
and then firstly
the focus is on the eyes,

777
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,360
the face, so to speak, and from
time to time secretly looking,

778
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,080
how do the others look?

779
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:32,360
So, sure. I mean,

780
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,480
I'm not saying
that it's not still interesting

781
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,320
to look at naked bodies.

782
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,040
I definitely felt that nudity

783
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:41,520
created a sense of community.

784
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,240
My journey towards

785
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,680
self-acceptance and self-love

786
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,880
wasn't always easy

787
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,360
because I think
growing up in a world

788
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,280
where you have to be
a certain type of way,

789
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,560
I think now, it's starting
to become more open and free.

790
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,520
I was not happy with

791
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:16,280
how I looked and how I felt.

792
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,160
Once I started to practise nudity,

793
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,000
it changed my life.

794
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,560
For movements like body positivity,

795
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,000
nudity definitely plays a role.

796
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,040
It's not really well researched yet.

797
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:31,160
But,

798
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,080
I think it's because nudity

799
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,680
makes the body visible

800
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,560
in a special way.

801
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,120
Then, of course, I want all people

802
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:41,680
to be able to show their bodies

803
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,160
and to be accepted.

804
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,600
And nudity is also a good way

805
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,200
to achieve that.

806
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,400
So I think in some ways,

807
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:52,480
the freedom to be naked is also

808
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,920
a sign of some power.

809
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,400
So the ability to do that

810
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:01,520
says I'm a person in society
who is now confident enough

811
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,440
that I will have
the resources I need

812
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,240
that I will continue to be treated
with a certain amount of respect

813
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,960
that I can take certain risks
and be vulnerable in certain ways

814
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,800
and that I won't be called up
on Monday

815
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,080
and told by my boss,
"Sorry, you've shamed us all.

816
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,040
You are now fired",
and then I'll be homeless

817
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:17,320
and unable to afford food.

818
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,320
People who can do this

819
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,040
have a certain amount
of power generally.

820
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:29,720
I don't need to be naked
all the time

821
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:31,640
because I get cold pretty quickly.

822
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:35,680
But I do enjoy

823
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,320
opportunities like these.

824
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,160
My relationship with nudity

825
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,880
has very recently become more free.

826
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:45,360
Thanks to Charlie.

827
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,080
I grew up very religious.
So my body never belonged to myself.

828
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:49,640
It belonged to God,

829
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,720
and you can't do anything
because it's a sin

830
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,640
and then your body is gonna belong
to your husband.

831
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,720
And what happens if you're queer?
So being queer

832
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,000
and an adult person that

833
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,200
wants to be in touch
with themselves, I've started

834
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,520
a journey on finding

835
00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:07,840
how I feel with nudity and...

836
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,040
yeah, kind of trying to erase
the shame

837
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:13,440
and trying to take back ownership
of my body

838
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,320
- a little bit.
- Yeah.

839
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:16,160
Hell yeah!

840
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:18,720
Yeah.

841
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,960
It's really beautiful
to be in a room

842
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,000
full of all naked people
and really,

843
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,160
like, you just realise

844
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,440
it's not...
nothing is that serious,

845
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,680
and everything is OK.

846
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,440
Yes, it was a nice feeling.

847
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,840
But I didn't feel freer

848
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,560
or anything afterwards.

849
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,160
Is a naked person a freer person?

850
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,920
No, not per se.

851
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:48,840
But a naked person

852
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,600
is freer if they can be naked

853
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,560
when they want to be.

854
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,480
Subtitles by Alison Watt

855
00:43:36,305 --> 00:44:36,613
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