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He wasn't a saint.
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- He was a hell of guy.
- He was just...
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so intelligent...
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and, um...
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[whispering]
I'm crying.
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[cries softly]
8
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[whispering]
I'm sorry.
9
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[sniffles]
10
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[sighs heavily]
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- Why are you sad?
- I'm sad.
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Why?
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Oh, I'll tell you about it someday.
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[boom]
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Do you know who that is?
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[Zachary] Andrew.
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[Man] Do you know who Andrew is?
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[Zachary] I don't know.
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Well...
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why-why did Andrew get killed?
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[Man] Because somebody hurt him, buddy.
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I'm an only child
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and I'll get around to why this is
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of any importance whatsoever.
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-But-
-[laughter]
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Trust me, there's a theme.
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[Man] Where were you when you found out?
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[Kate] Melanie, who's on the front desk
29
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calls back and says,
"Kate, there's a policeman"
30
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from Sunnyvale on the line for you.
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"Do you want to talk to him?"
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And I said, "Oh yeah,
put it through to the office."
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"Are you Kathleen Bagby?"
34
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I said, "Yes."
35
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"I've got a message here from Pennsylvania."
36
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You're to call this number.
37
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It's the coroner's office.
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"You've got bad news."
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[sighs]
I said, "Is my son dead?"
40
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And he said, "I can't
tell you that, Madam."
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He said, "But you've got terrible news."
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I dialed this number that he'd given me
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And it was a man, an irate man.
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"The coroner's office is closed down."
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It's nothing you could do about it.
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"You have to call back tomorrow morning."
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I called back to the
Sunnyvale Police Station.
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So he gave me another number
49
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and then I got through to Sergeant Krulak
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and he said, "Your son is dead
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under suspicious circumstances.
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Have you got any idea
why he was in the park?"
53
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"[whispering]
I said, "My son is dead?
54
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Murdered?"
55
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He said, "Yes."
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And then I called David.
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[phone ringing]
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And I said to him...
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[voice cracking]
"Andrew's dead."
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And he said, "No."
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And I heard him through the phone.
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I called Sergeant Krulak back
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and I said, you know, "We're coming."
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And he said, "Well, that's good."
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[David] Through that flight,
we just-we thought,
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"We go get Andrew and..."
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Bring him back to California and...
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get everything organized, whatever,
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and then kill ourselves because...
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no point in gong on.
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That was the first plan.
[chuckles]
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Obviously, we didn't do that.
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And then she gave me the list to Cali
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and we start calling.
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I came home and there was a message.
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-I was walking home-
-[overlapping voices]
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It was Tuesday morning.
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I was just coming out-
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I was doing something in the be-
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-I was in the living room-
-On the couch-
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[overlapping voices]
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[man] You know, everybody always says,
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"Well, what would be the difference
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if one person weren't alive?"
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[overlapping voices]
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[boom]
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[Tyler] I came home on November 7th, 2001,
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to find a message from my sister.
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[beep]
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[woman] Hi, Tyler. It's about 9:15.
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[Tyler]At 3:41 PM, I called her back.
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She told me to sit down.
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♪ Ambient tones ♪
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[rain pattering]
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[Suzanne] In the original
news, they said, uh,
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"Unidentified man in his 30s
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was found in hospital scrubs."
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None of those words des-
described who he was...
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and-and they could put them on paper
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and make them true.
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Nobody said...
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"This person..."
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This wonderful person...
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was hurt.
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[Kurt] We met in first grade
at Saint Andrew’s School
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in Saratoga, California,
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and I soon came to think of him
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as my closest friend.
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It was here, in the San Jose Bay area,
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scattered across the suburbs
that make up Silicon Valley
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that we all grew up.
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There was Chris-
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Do I remember how I met Andrew?
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-It was... second grade-
-[Kurt] And Matt-
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I can say without shame
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that we bathed together.
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-[Kurt] Michelle-
-He was the first friend
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I made my first day of school.
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-[Kurt] John-
-We met
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the first day of class
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because of our names,
Adkinson and Bagby.
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- [Kurt] Olivier.
- We talked for about
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20, 30 minutes and I realized,
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"Wow, this guy is pretty cool."
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-[Kurt] Heather-
-I'm sure you guys hear things
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[unintelligible]
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Between the two of us,
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we might actually be able to...
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put together a...
130
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half-decent story.
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[Kurt]And there was me.
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My name's Kurt and I'm a filmmaker.
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I'm Kurt Kenny and I play Indiana Jones.
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He appeared in every movie
I made growing up.
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We made a movie!
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[Kurt] He loved playing bad guys.
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Shut up!
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[snaps]
Let's go, kid.
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A's, huh?
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You must be a smart boy.
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[Kurt]And having a free pass
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to smoke and swear
in front of his parents.
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- I will fuck you up!
- Kiss my ass!
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Kiss my ass, you son of bitch!
145
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Christ, start the fucking
car and get outta here!
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Fuck you!
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Fuck all you fucking people!
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I did not say the "F" word.
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- I'm sorry.
- [Kurt] Which was probably
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kind of a cool release
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for a kid who made Eagle Scout
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by age 15.
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Mrs. Bagby, having watched it
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where Andrew is running around
155
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yelling and screaming,
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kind of went-
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I can't really remember being-
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"Oh, that's not my son."
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Perhaps you have a different idea
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that I got all upset about it.
161
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- I don't know.
- "Not my son."
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[Kurt] And eventually, I even got them
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- in on the act.
- Son of bitch!
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You little shit!
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You are a pain in the ass.
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You little bastard!
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Does that give you the right to go
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yelling about your penis on the air?
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[Kurt] It wasn't always fun and games.
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Son of a bitch, ow!
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- Jesus!
- Did I actually hit you?
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I didn't hurt your hand, did I?
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Yes, but don't worry about it.
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And if you knee me in the balls again,
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I'm gonna kill you.
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[Kurt]And I know I
drove him nuts sometimes.
177
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Can you do that one more time?
178
00:06:09,369 --> 00:06:10,537
- One more time.
- Okay, one-
179
00:06:10,620 --> 00:06:11,413
- one more time.
- [Kurt] One more time.
180
00:06:11,496 --> 00:06:12,557
[laughs]
I want to see that one more time.
181
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That was perfect.
182
00:06:13,415 --> 00:06:14,291
[Andrew] The famous "one more time" line.
183
00:06:14,374 --> 00:06:15,959
- Asshole.
- If I hear him saying
184
00:06:16,042 --> 00:06:17,544
"one more time" one more time,
185
00:06:17,627 --> 00:06:18,712
I'm gonna wring his neck.
186
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Jesus Christ, Kurt-
187
00:06:19,629 --> 00:06:20,672
Kurt, what you want?
188
00:06:20,755 --> 00:06:21,506
-I mean-
-[Kurt] No, no.
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I just need-I'm-I'm just gonna-
190
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But despite it all,
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00:06:23,758 --> 00:06:24,885
he always supported me.
192
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Kurt, another winner.
193
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Yes.
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What are you trying to do?
195
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-[Kurt] This man-
-Give a genius a heart attack?
196
00:06:30,807 --> 00:06:32,684
So do we kiss now or hug?
197
00:06:32,767 --> 00:06:34,328
[Kurt] He even invested
in my first feature film
198
00:06:34,352 --> 00:06:36,080
while he was working
to save for medical school.
199
00:06:36,104 --> 00:06:37,355
Everything was perfect.
200
00:06:38,356 --> 00:06:39,482
I don't know what happened.
201
00:06:40,525 --> 00:06:42,527
We got big and then we got laid.
202
00:06:42,611 --> 00:06:43,629
[Kurt] At his memorial service,
203
00:06:43,653 --> 00:06:45,530
I talked with his med school friend Anthony
204
00:06:45,614 --> 00:06:47,094
-who told me-
-one of the major things
205
00:06:47,157 --> 00:06:48,717
that Andrew and I did together, though,
206
00:06:48,742 --> 00:06:50,285
or that we had...
207
00:06:50,368 --> 00:06:52,621
in common was, uh, photography.
208
00:06:53,830 --> 00:06:55,498
[Kurt] I had no idea he took pictures.
209
00:06:55,582 --> 00:06:57,125
I knew him for 22 years.
210
00:06:57,792 --> 00:06:58,960
What else didn’t I know?
211
00:07:00,211 --> 00:07:02,148
I was never gong to get
to visit him at his hospital
212
00:07:02,172 --> 00:07:03,924
and see what he was like as a doctor.
213
00:07:04,466 --> 00:07:05,818
I would never be gong to his wedding
214
00:07:05,842 --> 00:07:07,194
where I would finally
meet his entire family
215
00:07:07,218 --> 00:07:08,219
at the reception.
216
00:07:08,845 --> 00:07:10,388
He would never be telling me anything
217
00:07:10,472 --> 00:07:12,182
I didn’t already know about him.
218
00:07:12,849 --> 00:07:14,035
So I decided to make this movie
219
00:07:14,059 --> 00:07:15,226
to travel far and wide
220
00:07:15,310 --> 00:07:17,437
to interview everyone
who ever knew and loved him
221
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,439
to I earn everything there was to know...
222
00:07:19,940 --> 00:07:21,380
and to make one last movie with him.
223
00:07:22,233 --> 00:07:23,944
I had no idea how many years it would take
224
00:07:24,027 --> 00:07:25,820
or how I would even know when I was done.
225
00:07:26,446 --> 00:07:27,656
But the longer I waited,
226
00:07:27,739 --> 00:07:29,324
the more memories would be lost.
227
00:07:29,741 --> 00:07:31,618
So I started at home in California,
228
00:07:31,701 --> 00:07:33,421
and as soon as I could, I grabbed a camera-
229
00:07:33,495 --> 00:07:34,955
- Okay, Andrew, ready?
- And said-
230
00:07:35,038 --> 00:07:36,039
Action!
231
00:07:39,417 --> 00:07:40,794
How would I describe Andrew
232
00:07:40,877 --> 00:07:42,212
to someone who'd never met him?
233
00:07:42,295 --> 00:07:43,797
[man] The man never wore pants.
234
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,924
He only wore shorts.
235
00:07:46,007 --> 00:07:47,008
[man] Constantly!
236
00:07:51,471 --> 00:07:53,139
[man] Boy, Andrew was very good at pool.
237
00:07:53,223 --> 00:07:54,784
[man] Quite frankly, he was a pool shark
238
00:07:54,808 --> 00:07:55,809
is what he was.
239
00:07:55,892 --> 00:07:56,810
[man] Well, he had a good teacher.
240
00:07:56,893 --> 00:07:58,093
[Andrew] All around this side-
241
00:08:01,398 --> 00:08:02,482
When we first met him,
242
00:08:02,565 --> 00:08:04,234
he had this thing with his fingernails.
243
00:08:04,317 --> 00:08:05,378
Oh yeah, he'd always be biting them-
244
00:08:05,402 --> 00:08:06,528
He'd be-he'd bite 'em.
245
00:08:06,611 --> 00:08:08,255
They'd look like they'd
been through a shredder
246
00:08:08,279 --> 00:08:09,280
Too late.
247
00:08:17,914 --> 00:08:19,666
He was probably the most determined person
248
00:08:19,749 --> 00:08:21,668
I had ever met about
249
00:08:21,751 --> 00:08:23,086
doing a particular profession.
250
00:08:23,169 --> 00:08:24,921
His mom worked in the business so-
251
00:08:25,005 --> 00:08:27,632
We would sit and discuss a topic...
252
00:08:27,716 --> 00:08:29,092
um, like...
253
00:08:29,592 --> 00:08:30,927
venereal disease.
254
00:08:43,106 --> 00:08:44,733
You know, he didn't get...
255
00:08:44,816 --> 00:08:47,485
an offer to come to medical school
at the end of the first year,
256
00:08:47,569 --> 00:08:49,487
and I remember, you know, that was...
257
00:08:50,905 --> 00:08:51,698
that was a big downer.
258
00:08:51,781 --> 00:08:53,491
I think he felt like he wasn't-
259
00:08:53,575 --> 00:08:54,885
like things were kind of stalled for him
260
00:08:54,909 --> 00:08:55,952
and he wasn't really...
261
00:08:58,121 --> 00:08:59,789
he wasn't living up to expectations.
262
00:09:05,795 --> 00:09:07,380
"Wh-what are you gonna do?"
263
00:09:07,464 --> 00:09:09,184
"Okay, I'll get a job and I'll apply again.
264
00:09:10,216 --> 00:09:11,134
"Okay.
265
00:09:11,217 --> 00:09:12,844
That's... problem solution."
266
00:09:19,642 --> 00:09:21,871
And then, of course, Heather
brought home this application
267
00:09:21,895 --> 00:09:24,981
she had picked up from
Memorial University of Newfoundland.
268
00:09:25,065 --> 00:09:26,983
I had to go look at Saint John's on the map
269
00:09:27,067 --> 00:09:28,318
when he got accepted there.
270
00:09:28,401 --> 00:09:30,403
We-I knew that's over on the east coast.
271
00:09:54,594 --> 00:09:56,805
[David] He's-he's now engaged to this
272
00:09:56,888 --> 00:09:59,557
lovely girl and he's
gonna go to med school.
273
00:09:59,641 --> 00:10:01,243
- It was great.
- Graduation, he was in shorts.
274
00:10:01,267 --> 00:10:02,870
[Kurt] Hold on a second,
we'll come back to this.
275
00:10:02,894 --> 00:10:04,687
But before we go any further...
276
00:10:04,771 --> 00:10:06,147
you've got to know what happened.
277
00:10:07,232 --> 00:10:08,233
The whole truth.
278
00:10:08,983 --> 00:10:09,984
So here it is.
279
00:10:13,905 --> 00:10:14,781
[David] A couple of policemen met us
280
00:10:14,864 --> 00:10:16,533
at the airport in Pittsburgh.
281
00:10:16,616 --> 00:10:18,910
Took us over to the hospital.
282
00:10:18,993 --> 00:10:21,830
Bill and, uh, Clark.
283
00:10:21,913 --> 00:10:23,957
Picked us up and took us over to the...
284
00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:25,458
Botches...
285
00:10:25,542 --> 00:10:27,127
Funeral Home in Greensburg.
286
00:10:27,210 --> 00:10:28,730
And then he took us down the stairway.
287
00:10:29,546 --> 00:10:30,964
Gurney at the other end...
288
00:10:32,132 --> 00:10:33,341
[sighs]
289
00:10:33,424 --> 00:10:34,968
With a white sheet over a body.
290
00:10:36,052 --> 00:10:37,262
And...
291
00:10:40,181 --> 00:10:41,057
went over to him
292
00:10:41,141 --> 00:10:42,559
and when we could see his face...
293
00:10:45,812 --> 00:10:47,272
I said...
[sniffles]
294
00:10:47,355 --> 00:10:48,773
"It's really him."
295
00:10:49,983 --> 00:10:51,734
I kissed him and held him and...
296
00:10:54,028 --> 00:10:55,280
Kate kissed him and held him
297
00:10:55,363 --> 00:10:56,698
and kissed him some more
298
00:10:56,781 --> 00:10:58,575
and tears are dropping on him, of course,
299
00:10:58,658 --> 00:11:00,493
and Kate went to wipe one of those away
300
00:11:00,577 --> 00:11:01,744
off his cheek...
301
00:11:02,412 --> 00:11:03,454
and, uh...
302
00:11:04,831 --> 00:11:06,583
a plug came out where he'd been shot
303
00:11:06,666 --> 00:11:08,293
in, uh, in the left cheek.
304
00:11:09,335 --> 00:11:10,837
Oh, my God.
305
00:11:11,296 --> 00:11:13,673
[Kate] [crying]
306
00:11:20,513 --> 00:11:22,113
She push it back in and cried some more.
307
00:11:22,182 --> 00:11:23,224
After that, I lost it
308
00:11:23,308 --> 00:11:25,059
and I just ran outside and screamed.
309
00:11:25,143 --> 00:11:26,853
I was so fucking mad,
310
00:11:26,936 --> 00:11:28,146
I couldn't see straight.
311
00:11:28,229 --> 00:11:29,564
Goddamn it, I hated-
312
00:11:29,647 --> 00:11:30,708
I've never hated like that.
313
00:11:30,732 --> 00:11:32,025
Didn't even know who I hated.
314
00:11:32,108 --> 00:11:33,108
Didn't know who it was.
315
00:11:33,151 --> 00:11:35,612
I just knew that somebody purposely...
316
00:11:35,695 --> 00:11:37,363
put him there and whoever that is...
317
00:11:37,447 --> 00:11:38,615
is a monster.
318
00:11:38,698 --> 00:11:40,617
[Zachary] [unintelligible]
319
00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:41,910
[man] It's a very bad person.
320
00:11:43,494 --> 00:11:45,455
[Zachary] Which bad person?
321
00:11:48,124 --> 00:11:49,918
- [Zachary] A lady?
- [man] Mm-hm.
322
00:11:51,336 --> 00:11:52,670
[Zachary] What's her name?
323
00:11:53,379 --> 00:11:54,881
- [man] Shirley.
- [Zachary] Shirley?
324
00:11:57,133 --> 00:11:59,052
Why did she killed him?
325
00:12:05,141 --> 00:12:07,644
I couldn't figure out
who she was in relation...
326
00:12:07,727 --> 00:12:09,562
to Andrew, since Andrew...
327
00:12:10,146 --> 00:12:11,898
talked a lot about women
328
00:12:11,981 --> 00:12:13,775
but never really mentioned her.
329
00:12:13,858 --> 00:12:15,698
[man] Paulette,
this is Bagby's new girlfriend.
330
00:12:15,777 --> 00:12:16,962
Makes me sick to my stomach now,
331
00:12:16,986 --> 00:12:19,072
but I was - I was so excited
332
00:12:19,155 --> 00:12:20,865
that he was dating somebody.
[laughs]
333
00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:22,829
[man] Come on, Shirley.
Get out from behind him.
334
00:12:22,867 --> 00:12:24,702
I knew he'd been struggling with...
335
00:12:24,786 --> 00:12:27,080
me moving on and dating other people.
336
00:12:27,163 --> 00:12:28,331
[man] Or maybe you will.
337
00:12:28,414 --> 00:12:29,582
You already met me.
338
00:12:29,666 --> 00:12:30,768
I was excited at the thought
339
00:12:30,792 --> 00:12:32,293
that maybe he had found somebody,
340
00:12:32,377 --> 00:12:33,711
um, that he, you know,
341
00:12:33,795 --> 00:12:35,213
could really be happy with.
342
00:12:38,132 --> 00:12:39,592
But it didn't turn out that way.
343
00:12:47,433 --> 00:12:48,226
[Kurt] Did you know her?
344
00:12:48,309 --> 00:12:49,310
Yeah.
345
00:12:52,188 --> 00:12:54,649
[Kurt] Do you remember
when they started dating or...?
346
00:12:54,732 --> 00:12:56,484
- Mm-hm.
- She just kind of appeared
347
00:12:56,567 --> 00:12:58,111
and then she was there all the time
348
00:12:58,194 --> 00:12:59,696
all of a sudden.
349
00:12:59,779 --> 00:13:01,322
And just didn't seem...
350
00:13:01,823 --> 00:13:02,907
suited for him.
351
00:13:06,828 --> 00:13:08,121
I did see that there was
352
00:13:08,204 --> 00:13:09,580
a considerable age difference.
353
00:13:10,206 --> 00:13:12,709
And then the second time
I heard him talk about it,
354
00:13:12,792 --> 00:13:14,270
he actually 'fessed to the age difference.
355
00:13:14,294 --> 00:13:15,294
I was like, "Holy shit."
356
00:13:17,463 --> 00:13:19,799
[man] "Shirley's got three kids. Whoo-hoo!"
357
00:13:23,886 --> 00:13:25,555
Me, I always had to give him a hard time,
358
00:13:25,638 --> 00:13:27,074
so I would tease him about nailin' grandma.
359
00:13:27,098 --> 00:13:29,767
And she seemed so... incongruous
360
00:13:29,851 --> 00:13:31,853
with who I would picture him with.
361
00:13:31,936 --> 00:13:33,414
A person like that
doesn't-isn't just, like,
362
00:13:33,438 --> 00:13:35,207
completely normal and then
one day, they become...
363
00:13:35,231 --> 00:13:36,458
- a psycho, you know?
- [man] Yeah.
364
00:13:36,482 --> 00:13:38,042
I mean, th-there had to be some signs.
365
00:13:38,067 --> 00:13:40,903
She'd just being really
inappropriate with things.
366
00:13:40,987 --> 00:13:43,197
Poor taste things that she would say.
367
00:13:43,281 --> 00:13:44,591
[man] She was always making kind of
368
00:13:44,615 --> 00:13:45,908
sexually inappropriate comments.
369
00:13:45,992 --> 00:13:46,909
[Karl] But never threatening.
370
00:13:46,993 --> 00:13:48,536
We never thought of her as...
371
00:13:48,619 --> 00:13:50,997
being threatening, but just...
372
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,766
- something was a little off.
- Something wasn't right.
373
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:54,500
She started calling me on a regular basis.
374
00:13:54,584 --> 00:13:56,002
She talked forever.
375
00:13:56,085 --> 00:13:58,046
Crude things about their...
376
00:13:58,796 --> 00:13:59,964
intimate relationship.
377
00:14:00,048 --> 00:14:01,608
But I thought it was
kind of odd when I met her
378
00:14:01,632 --> 00:14:03,092
that she wasn't-was not practicing.
379
00:14:03,176 --> 00:14:04,844
She had finished residency for...
380
00:14:06,179 --> 00:14:07,573
quite some time, and yet, she was having
381
00:14:07,597 --> 00:14:09,307
trouble getting her credentials.
382
00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:10,516
[woman] Nobody said anything
383
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,101
because we all respected Andrew.
384
00:14:12,185 --> 00:14:13,227
And if he wasn't...
385
00:14:13,311 --> 00:14:15,813
putting the pieces together or something...
386
00:14:15,897 --> 00:14:18,441
It just makes me think
he was just not caring.
387
00:14:18,524 --> 00:14:20,651
[man] He was likely 4,000 miles away
388
00:14:20,735 --> 00:14:21,486
from where he wanted to be
389
00:14:21,569 --> 00:14:22,653
for the rest of his life.
390
00:14:22,737 --> 00:14:25,239
He had had a very difficult
391
00:14:25,323 --> 00:14:27,533
kind of heartbreaking type of situation
392
00:14:27,617 --> 00:14:28,761
- with Heather.
- [woman] You know,
393
00:14:28,785 --> 00:14:29,970
whatever happened with their breakup
394
00:14:29,994 --> 00:14:32,038
really kind of devastated him and...
395
00:14:32,121 --> 00:14:33,247
um...
396
00:14:33,331 --> 00:14:34,874
just left him vulnerable to...
397
00:14:34,957 --> 00:14:36,042
someone like Shirley.
398
00:14:36,125 --> 00:14:37,126
"Andrew!
399
00:14:37,794 --> 00:14:39,670
You know you can do a lot better."
400
00:14:39,754 --> 00:14:41,114
He said, "Ah, no, I really can't."
401
00:14:41,172 --> 00:14:42,692
He'd poke fun at himself all the time.
402
00:14:42,757 --> 00:14:43,508
Yeah, he would, he'd always-
403
00:14:43,591 --> 00:14:44,842
He'd say he was a short,
404
00:14:44,926 --> 00:14:46,606
- [Sherri-Lynn] Yeah.
- Portly little fellow.
405
00:14:50,098 --> 00:14:51,492
You don't need to go out with a woman
406
00:14:51,516 --> 00:14:52,951
because you can't think you can do better.
407
00:14:52,975 --> 00:14:53,893
It was a comfort.
408
00:14:53,976 --> 00:14:55,728
And in Newfoundland, it was
409
00:14:55,812 --> 00:14:58,022
somebody to be around and he enjoyed it.
410
00:15:02,568 --> 00:15:03,569
Oh, it's just a...
411
00:15:03,653 --> 00:15:04,904
senior year thing.
412
00:15:04,987 --> 00:15:06,114
[Kurt] After graduation,
413
00:15:06,447 --> 00:15:08,175
he came back to the U.S.
to do a surgery residency
414
00:15:08,199 --> 00:15:09,492
in Syracuse, New York,
415
00:15:09,575 --> 00:15:10,575
and he was miserable.
416
00:15:10,618 --> 00:15:11,369
He hated it.
417
00:15:11,452 --> 00:15:13,097
[Kurt] Shirley also decided
to move to the States
418
00:15:13,121 --> 00:15:14,122
to practice.
419
00:15:19,210 --> 00:15:20,878
[woman] We were not very aware of
420
00:15:20,962 --> 00:15:22,505
his year in Syracuse.
421
00:15:22,588 --> 00:15:24,148
What a problem she became to him there.
422
00:15:29,971 --> 00:15:31,681
[Anthony] It was a real hard year for him.
423
00:15:31,764 --> 00:15:33,933
There was really no time for anything
424
00:15:34,016 --> 00:15:35,726
and the fact that there was this somebody
425
00:15:35,810 --> 00:15:36,894
that was...
426
00:15:36,978 --> 00:15:38,521
making a lot of effort to maintain
427
00:15:38,604 --> 00:15:39,939
a relationship with the man
428
00:15:40,022 --> 00:15:41,774
represented something else besides
429
00:15:41,858 --> 00:15:43,151
the misery that it sounded like
430
00:15:43,234 --> 00:15:44,986
his internship was.
431
00:15:45,069 --> 00:15:47,113
Um, it was hard for him to pass up.
432
00:15:47,196 --> 00:15:48,215
[Kurt] He pretty quickly realized
433
00:15:48,239 --> 00:15:49,633
that surgery wasn't for him and switched
434
00:15:49,657 --> 00:15:51,200
to a family practice residency
435
00:15:51,284 --> 00:15:53,870
in Latrobe, Pennsylvania in July of 2001.
436
00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:55,079
And he loved it.
437
00:15:55,163 --> 00:15:57,498
"He said, "When you finally find that thing
438
00:15:57,582 --> 00:15:59,125
that you know is your niche,
439
00:15:59,208 --> 00:16:00,126
it's worth-
440
00:16:00,209 --> 00:16:01,127
it's worth everything in the world.
441
00:16:01,210 --> 00:16:02,962
[Kurt] And he now wanted her to go away.
442
00:16:03,045 --> 00:16:05,047
He did not invite her to Matt's wedding.
443
00:16:05,131 --> 00:16:06,525
Yeah, and she thought she
was going to be coming.
444
00:16:06,549 --> 00:16:07,967
She just already had it arranged.
445
00:16:08,050 --> 00:16:09,236
[David]And the morning of the wedding,
446
00:16:09,260 --> 00:16:10,654
Andrew's cell phone started ringing.
447
00:16:10,678 --> 00:16:11,804
[ringing]
448
00:16:11,888 --> 00:16:13,115
And he'd answer it, and it's Shirley.
449
00:16:13,139 --> 00:16:14,491
A minute or two later, it’d ring again.
450
00:16:14,515 --> 00:16:15,683
And it's her again.
451
00:16:15,766 --> 00:16:17,035
Andrew got more and more upset with her.
452
00:16:17,059 --> 00:16:18,853
"What is your fucking problem?" And...
453
00:16:19,437 --> 00:16:20,354
clipped off the phone.
454
00:16:20,438 --> 00:16:22,815
She got 30-some odd messages
455
00:16:22,899 --> 00:16:23,900
on his phone.
456
00:16:25,776 --> 00:16:28,738
His phone in his house
rang, like, 30 times.
457
00:16:28,821 --> 00:16:30,573
Then his cellphone rang 30 times.
458
00:16:30,656 --> 00:16:31,574
He was like, "Oh, it's her.
459
00:16:31,657 --> 00:16:32,897
I don't want to talk with her."
460
00:16:34,285 --> 00:16:36,787
And apparently, Andrew
had already asked Shirley to-
461
00:16:36,871 --> 00:16:38,748
to accompany him
to Karl and Marcy's wedding
462
00:16:38,831 --> 00:16:41,250
October 20th before July.
463
00:16:41,334 --> 00:16:42,168
[man] He had broken up with her
464
00:16:42,251 --> 00:16:43,628
a month before in his mind.
465
00:16:43,711 --> 00:16:45,314
[man] It-it sounds so easy, but it's so-
466
00:16:45,338 --> 00:16:46,589
ít's hard when you're a -
467
00:16:46,672 --> 00:16:47,965
a genuine person who cares.
468
00:16:48,049 --> 00:16:49,443
He didn’t know how to be a son of a bitch
469
00:16:49,467 --> 00:16:50,861
because he wasn't a son of a bitch.
470
00:16:50,885 --> 00:16:52,405
[woman] Shirley had been really, like,
471
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:53,763
all over Andrew,
472
00:16:53,846 --> 00:16:56,057
just acting possessive of him.
473
00:16:56,140 --> 00:16:57,701
[Marci] I asked Andrew, "Hey, do you want
something to drink?"
474
00:16:57,725 --> 00:16:58,643
And she said, "There you go,
475
00:16:58,726 --> 00:16:59,560
hitting on the best man."
476
00:16:59,644 --> 00:17:00,937
So I'm - my jaw dropped.
477
00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:01,771
It had to, I'm s-
478
00:17:01,854 --> 00:17:02,939
I remember going...
479
00:17:03,314 --> 00:17:04,958
[Kurt] On the afternoon
of Saturday, November 3rd,
480
00:17:04,982 --> 00:17:06,901
2001, he broke up with Shirley
481
00:17:06,984 --> 00:17:08,587
once and for all over lunch at the airport
482
00:17:08,611 --> 00:17:10,029
in Latrobe, Pennsylvania.
483
00:17:10,112 --> 00:17:11,673
Then he put her on a
plane back to her place
484
00:17:11,697 --> 00:17:13,241
in Council Bluffs, Iowa...
485
00:17:13,324 --> 00:17:14,951
1,000 miles away.
486
00:17:21,832 --> 00:17:22,750
[Clark] I remember the morning
487
00:17:22,833 --> 00:17:23,751
that Shirley showed up.
488
00:17:23,834 --> 00:17:24,835
[doorbell ring]
489
00:17:24,919 --> 00:17:26,199
"He said, "You'll never guess who
490
00:17:26,254 --> 00:17:28,422
showed up on my doorstep at 5:30."
491
00:17:29,757 --> 00:17:30,757
And I said, "Who?"
492
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,593
He said, "The psychotic bitch."
493
00:17:33,010 --> 00:17:34,770
And I told him, I said,
"You know, Andrew..."
494
00:17:35,972 --> 00:17:37,991
When I break up with somebody
and put them on a plane
495
00:17:38,015 --> 00:17:40,685
"and send them 1,300 miles away..."
496
00:17:40,768 --> 00:17:42,270
I said, "They knock on my front door,
497
00:17:42,353 --> 00:17:43,479
I'm going out the back door,
498
00:17:43,563 --> 00:17:45,231
and I'm calling the police."
499
00:17:45,773 --> 00:17:46,893
He said, "What do you mean?"
500
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,568
I said, "Andrew..."
501
00:17:49,527 --> 00:17:50,528
[scoffs]
502
00:17:51,612 --> 00:17:53,155
I said, "Be serious."
503
00:17:53,656 --> 00:17:56,701
Nobody drives 16 hours
504
00:17:56,784 --> 00:17:58,136
after you've just broken up with them.
505
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,204
I said, "Do not meet her in private."
506
00:18:00,621 --> 00:18:02,164
He said, "What can happen?"
507
00:18:02,248 --> 00:18:03,892
And he said, "I'm gong
to need catch up with you
508
00:18:03,916 --> 00:18:05,836
and we're gonna have
to do some serious talking."
509
00:18:06,043 --> 00:18:07,187
Well, I said, "Bring some beer.
510
00:18:07,211 --> 00:18:08,629
I only live a block away."
511
00:18:08,713 --> 00:18:09,815
I said, "When do you think you'll be done?"
512
00:18:09,839 --> 00:18:10,756
He said, "Well...
513
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,341
ít's 4:30 now,
514
00:18:12,425 --> 00:18:13,593
meeting her at six...
515
00:18:14,302 --> 00:18:16,220
7:30, I'll be at your house.
516
00:18:17,805 --> 00:18:19,365
Things people should know about Andrew:
517
00:18:19,682 --> 00:18:20,891
he was never late.
518
00:18:21,684 --> 00:18:22,685
You know what?
519
00:18:22,768 --> 00:18:24,270
When Andrew didn't show up at 7:30...
520
00:18:25,062 --> 00:18:27,189
I knew something was very wrong.
521
00:18:28,441 --> 00:18:30,359
And when I went back down at nine o'clock
522
00:18:30,443 --> 00:18:31,819
and didn't see his car there...
523
00:18:33,487 --> 00:18:35,197
I knew something was wrong.
524
00:18:37,825 --> 00:18:38,825
I- I-
525
00:18:38,951 --> 00:18:40,429
let me tell you the events of the day.
526
00:18:40,453 --> 00:18:42,204
Andrew didn't show up for morning report.
527
00:18:42,622 --> 00:18:43,765
Morning report ended around eight o'clock.
528
00:18:43,789 --> 00:18:44,540
Went down to my office.
529
00:18:44,624 --> 00:18:45,958
I called Andrew's house.
530
00:18:46,042 --> 00:18:47,227
[over phone] Hi, you've
reached Andrew Bagby.
531
00:18:47,251 --> 00:18:48,437
Please leave a message at the tone.
532
00:18:48,461 --> 00:18:49,629
Thank you.
[beep]
533
00:18:55,384 --> 00:18:56,218
Called his cell phone.
534
00:18:56,302 --> 00:18:57,386
Andrew, where are you at?
535
00:18:58,220 --> 00:18:59,138
No answer on either one.
536
00:18:59,221 --> 00:19:01,140
As I recall, we were getting pretty close
537
00:19:01,223 --> 00:19:02,558
to nine o'clock in the morning
538
00:19:02,642 --> 00:19:04,852
and - and Rhonda and I
and some of the residents
539
00:19:04,935 --> 00:19:06,288
are starting to get a little nervous.
540
00:19:06,312 --> 00:19:07,647
But I remember Bill coming in
541
00:19:07,730 --> 00:19:09,124
and standing in front of the television
542
00:19:09,148 --> 00:19:10,024
and telling us.
543
00:19:10,107 --> 00:19:12,068
One of the ER docs turned to me and said,
544
00:19:12,151 --> 00:19:14,195
You know, they -
they found a body in scrubs
545
00:19:14,278 --> 00:19:16,197
"out at Key-at Keystone Park."
546
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:17,490
Dead silence fell over.
547
00:19:17,573 --> 00:19:19,075
A heaviness like I've never felt.
548
00:19:20,326 --> 00:19:22,346
And eventually, almost
everyone is congregated there
549
00:19:22,370 --> 00:19:23,621
just waiting for more news.
550
00:19:23,704 --> 00:19:25,623
Rhonda got the call and she said to me,
551
00:19:25,706 --> 00:19:27,583
"They need you in Mr. Clark's office
552
00:19:27,667 --> 00:19:28,417
right now."
553
00:19:28,501 --> 00:19:29,418
And I remember my heart pounding
554
00:19:29,502 --> 00:19:31,420
gong up damn near a sprint.
555
00:19:31,504 --> 00:19:32,254
I opened the door
556
00:19:32,338 --> 00:19:33,631
and I remember seeing three
557
00:19:33,714 --> 00:19:35,067
Pennsylvania State Police Troopers
558
00:19:35,091 --> 00:19:36,676
in uniform sitting in the room.
559
00:19:36,759 --> 00:19:37,635
And I said, You're here to tell me
560
00:19:37,718 --> 00:19:39,220
"about Andrew Bagby, aren't you?"
561
00:19:39,303 --> 00:19:41,055
They asked for us to all to
562
00:19:41,138 --> 00:19:42,598
gather in the conference room,
563
00:19:42,682 --> 00:19:43,557
and they closed the door.
564
00:19:43,641 --> 00:19:44,641
He cleared his throat.
565
00:19:44,809 --> 00:19:45,685
He just walked right up to the podium
566
00:19:45,768 --> 00:19:46,644
and he said-
567
00:19:46,727 --> 00:19:48,062
Andrew Bagby is dead.
568
00:19:49,897 --> 00:19:51,857
"And I said, Well, you
don't have to look far."
569
00:19:53,693 --> 00:19:54,933
They're like, What do you mean?
570
00:19:59,365 --> 00:20:00,825
I said, This woman was in town.
571
00:20:02,660 --> 00:20:03,661
"She was here."
572
00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:09,458
I said, "Find her
573
00:20:09,542 --> 00:20:11,062
and I think you'll find who did this."
574
00:20:21,178 --> 00:20:24,515
The summary of the evidence
against Shirley Turner.
575
00:20:25,099 --> 00:20:27,077
[Kurt] He was found on the morning
of Tuesday, November 6th.
576
00:20:27,101 --> 00:20:28,936
laying behind his car in a parking lot
577
00:20:29,019 --> 00:20:31,731
at Keystone State Park in
Derry Township, Pennsylvania.
578
00:20:31,814 --> 00:20:33,232
A man walking through Keystone Park
579
00:20:33,315 --> 00:20:35,985
at 6:10 PM the previous evening,
November 5th,
580
00:20:36,068 --> 00:20:37,611
had seen his black Toyota Corolla
581
00:20:37,695 --> 00:20:39,113
park next to an SUV.
582
00:20:39,572 --> 00:20:41,172
This was ten minutes after he told Clark
583
00:20:41,198 --> 00:20:42,342
he was gong to meet Shirley.
584
00:20:42,366 --> 00:20:43,534
Meeting her at six.
585
00:20:43,617 --> 00:20:46,203
[Kurt] Shirley drove a Toyota RAV4 SUV.
586
00:20:46,746 --> 00:20:47,872
He was shot five times:
587
00:20:47,955 --> 00:20:49,498
in the face, the chest,
588
00:20:49,582 --> 00:20:50,499
twice in the buttocks,
589
00:20:50,583 --> 00:20:51,703
and in the back of the head.
590
00:20:51,751 --> 00:20:52,585
He also received a blunt trauma
591
00:20:52,668 --> 00:20:53,419
to the back of the head.
592
00:20:53,502 --> 00:20:54,628
That didn't sound random.
593
00:20:54,712 --> 00:20:56,630
That sounded like rage and vengeance.
594
00:20:56,714 --> 00:20:59,633
[Kurt] The ammunition used
was CCl .22 caliber bullets.
595
00:20:59,717 --> 00:21:00,843
There were six spent casings
596
00:21:00,926 --> 00:21:02,845
and one live round
on the ground beside him.
597
00:21:02,928 --> 00:21:05,431
Shirley owned a Phoenix
Arms .22 caliber handgun.
598
00:21:21,530 --> 00:21:22,591
[Kurt] She had three lessons
599
00:21:22,615 --> 00:21:23,741
with a firearms instructor
600
00:21:23,824 --> 00:21:25,144
who said that at her last lesson,
601
00:21:25,201 --> 00:21:27,787
she was using CCI 22 caliber ammunition
602
00:21:27,870 --> 00:21:29,872
and her gun malfunctioned
and would sometimes eject
603
00:21:29,955 --> 00:21:31,582
live rounds onto the ground.
604
00:21:37,963 --> 00:21:39,715
"And she said, No, I can't find it."
605
00:21:46,013 --> 00:21:47,306
And she said,
606
00:21:47,389 --> 00:21:48,933
I gave the gun to Andrew.
607
00:21:49,016 --> 00:21:50,202
[Kurt] She claims she was home sick all day
608
00:21:50,226 --> 00:21:51,477
on Monday, November 5th.
609
00:22:01,779 --> 00:22:03,614
The cell phone records show
610
00:22:03,697 --> 00:22:05,324
that a phone call was made here,
611
00:22:05,407 --> 00:22:06,534
here, here, and here.
612
00:22:06,617 --> 00:22:08,136
[Kurt] While she claims to be home in bed,
613
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,013
she's making cell phone
calls from Chicago, Illinois
614
00:22:10,037 --> 00:22:11,622
at 7:08 and 7:10 PM
615
00:22:11,705 --> 00:22:12,998
on Sunday, November 4th,
616
00:22:13,082 --> 00:22:14,583
Then another from South Bend, Indiana
617
00:22:14,667 --> 00:22:16,585
at 10:19 PM that night.
618
00:22:16,669 --> 00:22:18,104
Then another from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
619
00:22:18,128 --> 00:22:19,630
at 8:07 a.m. the next morning
620
00:22:19,713 --> 00:22:21,423
November 5th, the day he was killed.
621
00:22:21,507 --> 00:22:22,818
She logged onto eBay that morning
622
00:22:22,842 --> 00:22:24,134
from his computer at his house.
623
00:22:24,218 --> 00:22:25,218
And back again.
624
00:22:25,261 --> 00:22:26,846
[Kurt] At 11:26 PM that night,
625
00:22:26,929 --> 00:22:28,681
she makes another call from Cleveland, Ohio
626
00:22:28,764 --> 00:22:30,391
clearly on her way home this time.
627
00:22:30,474 --> 00:22:31,868
Then another call from Stuart, Iowa
628
00:22:31,892 --> 00:22:33,519
at 9:48 AM the next morning
629
00:22:33,602 --> 00:22:34,728
Tuesday, November 6th.
630
00:22:34,812 --> 00:22:35,997
Then another when she got home
631
00:22:36,021 --> 00:22:37,147
to Council Bluffs
632
00:22:37,231 --> 00:22:38,399
and this one's to him.
633
00:22:47,449 --> 00:22:48,885
[Kurt] When she realized
that she couldn't possibly
634
00:22:48,909 --> 00:22:50,011
be sick in bed when she'd been caught
635
00:22:50,035 --> 00:22:50,828
making cell phone calls
636
00:22:50,911 --> 00:22:52,162
from Pennsylvania and back,
637
00:22:52,246 --> 00:22:53,163
she changed her story again.
638
00:22:53,247 --> 00:22:54,582
Then she said,
639
00:22:54,665 --> 00:22:55,875
I gave the gun to Andrew
640
00:22:55,958 --> 00:22:57,960
in the parking lot and he- and I saw him
641
00:22:58,043 --> 00:22:59,128
put it in his trunk.
642
00:23:09,471 --> 00:23:10,639
That clearly shows...
643
00:23:11,515 --> 00:23:12,892
if she did this...
644
00:23:13,142 --> 00:23:14,310
she planned it.
645
00:23:14,393 --> 00:23:16,896
She is a manipulative, deceitful,
646
00:23:16,979 --> 00:23:18,147
planner of a murder.
647
00:23:19,940 --> 00:23:20,959
[Kurt] In order to prove her whereabouts
648
00:23:20,983 --> 00:23:22,359
when she made these phone calls,
649
00:23:22,443 --> 00:23:23,736
each individual cell tower
650
00:23:23,819 --> 00:23:26,071
along her 16-hour drive
had to be manually checked
651
00:23:26,155 --> 00:23:27,072
which was a process that took
652
00:23:27,156 --> 00:23:28,407
almost two weeks.
653
00:23:28,949 --> 00:23:31,493
While the police were uncovering
this crucial piece of evidence,
654
00:23:31,577 --> 00:23:33,078
Shirley left the United States
655
00:23:33,162 --> 00:23:35,122
for her home
in Saint John's, Newfoundland.
656
00:23:37,166 --> 00:23:38,667
[David] We were absolutely helpless
657
00:23:38,751 --> 00:23:40,252
for the whole time we were in Latrobe
658
00:23:40,336 --> 00:23:41,503
after this initial...
659
00:23:42,463 --> 00:23:43,464
nightmare.
660
00:23:43,547 --> 00:23:45,299
The other residents and...
661
00:23:46,008 --> 00:23:48,135
Andrew's - well,
they're Andrew's friends now,
662
00:23:48,218 --> 00:23:49,303
came in...
663
00:23:49,386 --> 00:23:50,429
sat with us...
664
00:23:50,512 --> 00:23:51,931
brought us meals.
665
00:23:52,014 --> 00:23:53,734
They had a sign-up sheet at the hospital...
666
00:23:54,350 --> 00:23:56,110
to bring us a dinner
and sit and cry with us.
667
00:23:56,185 --> 00:23:57,978
And-and, uh...
668
00:23:58,687 --> 00:24:00,189
listen to us, and...
669
00:24:00,981 --> 00:24:01,857
cry some more.
670
00:24:01,941 --> 00:24:03,067
Great people.
671
00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:05,194
[man] I mean, the whole hospital grieved.
672
00:24:05,277 --> 00:24:06,362
It was profound.
673
00:24:06,445 --> 00:24:08,238
Just picture the masses that - that -
674
00:24:08,489 --> 00:24:09,490
that...
675
00:24:09,615 --> 00:24:10,783
that just came out for that.
676
00:24:10,866 --> 00:24:12,493
[man] From memorials in Newfoundland,
677
00:24:12,576 --> 00:24:13,953
to California, to England,
678
00:24:14,036 --> 00:24:15,756
-[Kate] To Saint Louis-
-[David] To Latrobe.
679
00:24:15,829 --> 00:24:17,289
So proud to say that I loved him
680
00:24:17,373 --> 00:24:18,832
so very much.
681
00:24:18,916 --> 00:24:20,810
[David] And I'd be happy
if I had one-tenth of people
682
00:24:20,834 --> 00:24:23,379
care as one-half about
as much they did Andrew.
683
00:24:45,150 --> 00:24:46,211
[woman] Well, I know at the point
684
00:24:46,235 --> 00:24:47,379
that we had the memorial service,
685
00:24:47,403 --> 00:24:48,570
she was back in Canada.
686
00:24:48,654 --> 00:24:50,465
Actually, she was there
at the memorial service
687
00:24:50,489 --> 00:24:51,800
- that we had here.
- She broke down crying
688
00:24:51,824 --> 00:24:53,534
during the service and...
689
00:24:53,617 --> 00:24:54,994
sobbing really loud and...
690
00:24:56,245 --> 00:24:58,956
you know, I-I wonder
if it was all just for show.
691
00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:00,392
[woman] And then fear at that point for,
692
00:25:00,416 --> 00:25:01,959
you know, Heather's safety because-
693
00:25:02,042 --> 00:25:03,919
[Heather] She-she came
up and-and sort of...
694
00:25:04,003 --> 00:25:05,671
butted one of my friends out beside me
695
00:25:05,754 --> 00:25:07,172
and said...
696
00:25:07,256 --> 00:25:08,298
just...
697
00:25:08,382 --> 00:25:11,218
awful things and obviously I cared
698
00:25:11,301 --> 00:25:13,637
about a lot more about him
than he ever cared about me,
699
00:25:13,721 --> 00:25:15,389
and I definitely wasn't important...
700
00:25:15,472 --> 00:25:16,265
umm...
701
00:25:16,348 --> 00:25:17,266
in his life.
702
00:25:17,349 --> 00:25:19,059
Then, I get an email from Shirley
703
00:25:19,143 --> 00:25:20,602
a horrible, scathing email.
704
00:25:20,686 --> 00:25:22,271
It was all basically I was nothing
705
00:25:22,354 --> 00:25:23,605
and she was everything,
706
00:25:23,689 --> 00:25:25,190
how wonderful their love was
707
00:25:25,274 --> 00:25:27,067
and how that'll never die now.
708
00:25:27,151 --> 00:25:28,878
[Kurt] To try to lure her
back to the United States,
709
00:25:28,902 --> 00:25:31,613
Shirley was invited to the
memorial service in California,
710
00:25:31,697 --> 00:25:32,906
but she didn’t take the bait.
711
00:25:33,699 --> 00:25:34,867
So finally, she was charged.
712
00:25:35,492 --> 00:25:37,053
She was arrested
in Saint John's, Newfoundland,
713
00:25:37,077 --> 00:25:38,662
on December 12, 2001...
714
00:25:39,788 --> 00:25:41,874
and was let go on bail the very same day.
715
00:25:42,291 --> 00:25:43,459
When there's flight risk,
716
00:25:43,542 --> 00:25:44,835
it seemed to me common sense
717
00:25:44,918 --> 00:25:46,587
that if she isn't in the jurisdiction
718
00:25:46,670 --> 00:25:47,546
where they want her,
719
00:25:47,629 --> 00:25:48,629
she's fled.
720
00:25:48,672 --> 00:25:50,072
[Kurt] Crown prosecutor Mike Madden
721
00:25:50,132 --> 00:25:52,051
did not even argue
against her release on bail
722
00:25:52,134 --> 00:25:53,278
and instead, entered the
courtroom with an agreement
723
00:25:53,302 --> 00:25:55,054
already in place for her release.
724
00:25:55,137 --> 00:25:57,073
Pending the next hearing
in the extradition process
725
00:25:57,097 --> 00:25:58,974
to the United States,
all Justice David Russell
726
00:25:59,058 --> 00:26:01,018
required Shirley to do was...
[cha-ching]
727
00:26:01,101 --> 00:26:03,520
Post $75,000 in sureties.
728
00:26:03,604 --> 00:26:05,147
$65,000 of this was posted by
729
00:26:05,230 --> 00:26:07,524
her personal psychiatrist,
but I'll come back to him.
730
00:26:07,608 --> 00:26:08,692
Turn in her passports,
731
00:26:08,776 --> 00:26:09,651
sign-in once a week
732
00:26:09,735 --> 00:26:10,861
at the local police station,
733
00:26:10,944 --> 00:26:12,738
promise not to leave Newfoundland,
734
00:26:12,821 --> 00:26:14,656
and avoid contact with these people.
735
00:26:14,740 --> 00:26:15,783
And with that,
736
00:26:16,241 --> 00:26:17,927
the government of Canada
let a probable premeditated
737
00:26:17,951 --> 00:26:20,079
first-degree murderer walk the streets.
738
00:26:20,621 --> 00:26:21,705
I thought it was crazy.
739
00:26:21,789 --> 00:26:23,540
Should never be,
should never have been.
740
00:26:23,624 --> 00:26:24,875
I thought it was insane.
741
00:26:24,958 --> 00:26:26,668
Who the hell is the system protecting?
742
00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:27,669
[Kurt] I could not believe
743
00:26:27,753 --> 00:26:28,837
this was happening.
744
00:26:29,463 --> 00:26:30,964
But the most unbelievable part
745
00:26:31,048 --> 00:26:32,108
was when we found out about you.
746
00:26:32,132 --> 00:26:33,300
[beep]
747
00:26:33,383 --> 00:26:34,134
[Matt over phone] Kurt, this is
748
00:26:34,218 --> 00:26:35,302
Matt Unger.
749
00:26:35,385 --> 00:26:37,304
I just got a call from Mrs. Bagby.
750
00:26:37,387 --> 00:26:39,181
The abbreviated version is...
751
00:26:39,264 --> 00:26:42,309
Fletcher Bucket, that bitch, uh...
752
00:26:42,392 --> 00:26:43,894
held a press conference and announced
753
00:26:43,977 --> 00:26:45,038
that she's four months pregnant
754
00:26:45,062 --> 00:26:46,146
with Andrew's baby.
755
00:26:47,189 --> 00:26:48,792
They can't prove it until the child’s born.
756
00:26:48,816 --> 00:26:50,150
[inhales deeply]
757
00:26:50,234 --> 00:26:52,778
If it is true, the Bagby's
are going to sue for custody.
758
00:26:56,073 --> 00:26:57,953
[Kurt] My movie now
took on a whole new meaning.
759
00:26:57,991 --> 00:26:59,535
It was no longer just my search
760
00:26:59,618 --> 00:27:00,911
for what was left of your dad.
761
00:27:00,994 --> 00:27:02,704
It might be the only way you could one day
762
00:27:02,788 --> 00:27:04,748
go back in time, see, and get to know him.
763
00:27:04,832 --> 00:27:06,834
This is a time machine.
764
00:27:07,709 --> 00:27:09,253
Yes, a time machine.
765
00:27:09,336 --> 00:27:11,064
[Kurt]And I vowed to collect
every memory for you
766
00:27:11,088 --> 00:27:12,422
before they were gone.
767
00:27:12,506 --> 00:27:14,007
So finally, I set off.
768
00:27:14,091 --> 00:27:15,592
First, I would go to England
769
00:27:15,676 --> 00:27:17,320
to interview your grandma's
side of the family for you.
770
00:27:17,344 --> 00:27:19,388
Then, I'd return to the U.S.
to do an epic road trip
771
00:27:19,471 --> 00:27:20,806
across North America.
772
00:27:20,889 --> 00:27:22,808
I'd start on the west coast of California
773
00:27:22,891 --> 00:27:24,285
and motor East, stopping to interview
774
00:27:24,309 --> 00:27:26,645
all of your dad's friends
and family along the way,
775
00:27:26,728 --> 00:27:28,772
and I would keep driving
until the land ran out
776
00:27:28,856 --> 00:27:30,566
in Saint John's, Newfoundland,
777
00:27:30,649 --> 00:27:32,860
the Eastern-most point
in all of North America
778
00:27:32,943 --> 00:27:35,154
where the last living piece of Andrew,
779
00:27:35,237 --> 00:27:37,364
you, would be waiting for me.
780
00:27:37,447 --> 00:27:38,767
I grabbed a digital video camera,
781
00:27:38,824 --> 00:27:40,367
a 16-millimeter wind-up movie camera,
782
00:27:40,450 --> 00:27:41,326
and an old Nikon...
783
00:27:41,410 --> 00:27:42,744
I have a good idea.
784
00:27:42,828 --> 00:27:44,955
I'll go back in time and
stop you from dying.
785
00:27:45,038 --> 00:27:46,623
[Kurt]And set off on a quest
786
00:27:46,707 --> 00:27:48,458
to bring your dad back to life.
787
00:27:48,542 --> 00:27:50,627
And while I raced to rescue your history,
788
00:27:50,711 --> 00:27:52,311
your grandma and grandpa quit their jobs,
789
00:27:52,337 --> 00:27:54,590
dug into their savings,
and gave up everything
790
00:27:54,673 --> 00:27:57,134
to move to Newfoundland
to fight for your future.
791
00:27:59,344 --> 00:28:00,762
[Jackie] I met Kate and David
792
00:28:00,846 --> 00:28:03,640
in the spring of 2002.
793
00:28:03,724 --> 00:28:04,641
I'll never forget it.
794
00:28:04,725 --> 00:28:07,102
They needed a lawyer to assist them
795
00:28:07,186 --> 00:28:09,479
in making sure that their
rights and the baby's rights
796
00:28:09,563 --> 00:28:10,856
were protected, I guess.
797
00:28:10,939 --> 00:28:13,442
I instantly liked them.
798
00:28:13,525 --> 00:28:15,027
I thought that it was so important
799
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:15,986
that they have a relationship
800
00:28:16,069 --> 00:28:16,987
with that child.
801
00:28:17,070 --> 00:28:18,655
[David] Our lawyer, Jackie, went to see
802
00:28:18,739 --> 00:28:20,908
Betty Day, an administrator
803
00:28:20,991 --> 00:28:23,702
somewhere in the hierarchy
of Child Protective Services
804
00:28:23,785 --> 00:28:26,705
and told her that we, the Bagbys,
805
00:28:26,788 --> 00:28:29,791
are concerned about
the safety of the baby...
806
00:28:30,542 --> 00:28:32,502
because the mother is accused
807
00:28:32,586 --> 00:28:34,046
of a premeditated murder.
808
00:28:34,129 --> 00:28:35,714
To me, I thought they were very
809
00:28:35,797 --> 00:28:38,717
emotionally intelligent in how they were...
810
00:28:39,885 --> 00:28:43,055
bearing up under all
of this incredible stress.
811
00:28:43,138 --> 00:28:44,782
Uh, you know, they had-
that was a Sunday afternoon.
812
00:28:44,806 --> 00:28:46,808
The next morning,
they had to sit in the court room
813
00:28:46,892 --> 00:28:48,060
and look at her.
814
00:28:50,062 --> 00:28:51,080
[Kurt] When your grandma and grandpa
815
00:28:51,104 --> 00:28:52,272
first arrived in Canada,
816
00:28:52,356 --> 00:28:54,608
they were told the law is slow.
817
00:28:54,691 --> 00:28:55,692
And they weren't kidding.
818
00:28:55,776 --> 00:28:57,527
February 15th, prosecutor Mike Madden
819
00:28:57,611 --> 00:28:59,088
acknowledged that the extradition request
820
00:28:59,112 --> 00:29:00,030
had been received.
821
00:29:00,113 --> 00:29:01,657
They adjourned until March 11th,
822
00:29:01,740 --> 00:29:03,593
when they decided they'd
reconvene to select a date
823
00:29:03,617 --> 00:29:05,744
for the extradition hearing on March 25th,
824
00:29:05,827 --> 00:29:07,055
where they decided to set the date
825
00:29:07,079 --> 00:29:08,997
for the extradition hearing for May 27th,
826
00:29:09,081 --> 00:29:10,433
where they got caught-up
debating the French
827
00:29:10,457 --> 00:29:11,583
versus English translations
828
00:29:11,667 --> 00:29:13,335
of section 32 of the Extradition Act,
829
00:29:13,418 --> 00:29:14,628
and decided to adjourn
830
00:29:14,711 --> 00:29:16,713
for a specific translation until June 11th,
831
00:29:16,797 --> 00:29:17,941
a hearing which lasted five minutes,
832
00:29:17,965 --> 00:29:19,299
at which Judge Derek Greene said
833
00:29:19,383 --> 00:29:20,568
he wasn't in a position to rule
834
00:29:20,592 --> 00:29:21,778
on the translation and they would
835
00:29:21,802 --> 00:29:23,387
adjourn again until July 30th.
836
00:29:24,805 --> 00:29:26,139
And while they waited for justice,
837
00:29:26,223 --> 00:29:27,766
and for you to arrive,
838
00:29:27,849 --> 00:29:29,559
your grandma and grandpa
made a new home
839
00:29:29,643 --> 00:29:30,978
and new friends.
840
00:29:31,061 --> 00:29:32,455
[Chris] They made friends
all over Saint John's.
841
00:29:32,479 --> 00:29:33,790
Uh, people in the legal community,
842
00:29:33,814 --> 00:29:35,399
the medical community.
843
00:29:35,482 --> 00:29:36,400
But here at St. Michael's,
844
00:29:36,483 --> 00:29:38,002
yeah, they-they made-they got their-
845
00:29:38,026 --> 00:29:40,070
they got right in there
and got right involved.
846
00:29:40,737 --> 00:29:42,006
It seems like they've always been here.
847
00:29:42,030 --> 00:29:43,174
Basically, they have more friends
848
00:29:43,198 --> 00:29:44,574
in Newfoundland now than we do.
849
00:29:44,658 --> 00:29:46,177
[Ian] Well, ít's a very small Province,
850
00:29:46,201 --> 00:29:48,912
you know, the land mass is as big as, uh,
851
00:29:48,996 --> 00:29:50,789
well, maybe not quite as big as California
852
00:29:50,872 --> 00:29:52,416
but not far off.
853
00:29:52,833 --> 00:29:56,128
And yet, we only have 530,000 population
854
00:29:56,211 --> 00:29:57,713
scattered over that land mass.
855
00:29:57,796 --> 00:29:58,982
[man] You can't go anywhere in St. John's
856
00:29:59,006 --> 00:30:00,441
without running into somebody you know.
857
00:30:00,465 --> 00:30:02,193
[man] I mean, ít's the
oldest city in North America.
858
00:30:02,217 --> 00:30:04,219
It's a very safe place, I think.
859
00:30:04,303 --> 00:30:06,305
The big, uh, drawback against living here
860
00:30:06,388 --> 00:30:07,388
is getting out of here.
861
00:30:07,431 --> 00:30:09,182
The weather here is terrible.
862
00:30:09,266 --> 00:30:11,268
The weather is-is awful.
863
00:30:11,351 --> 00:30:13,413
We have eight months of winter
and four months of bad weather.
864
00:30:13,437 --> 00:30:15,477
And the other con-
very consistent thing that I hear
865
00:30:15,522 --> 00:30:16,922
is that the people are so friendly.
866
00:30:16,982 --> 00:30:18,584
[man] How would you, uh,
describe them to someone
867
00:30:18,608 --> 00:30:19,808
who had never met them before?
868
00:30:20,402 --> 00:30:21,695
Do you have an hour?
869
00:30:21,778 --> 00:30:23,738
I was hoping you would ask
me about Kate and David
870
00:30:23,780 --> 00:30:25,741
-who are very-
-[man] Young at heart.
871
00:30:26,450 --> 00:30:27,450
Childish.
872
00:30:27,492 --> 00:30:28,532
That's not the right word.
873
00:30:28,785 --> 00:30:30,471
He's an engineer in the
truest sense of the word.
874
00:30:30,495 --> 00:30:31,997
The guy likes Pintos, okay?
875
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:33,080
[women] Logical.
876
00:30:33,123 --> 00:30:35,584
Does thing in steps, logical steps.
877
00:30:35,667 --> 00:30:39,338
Comparing Andrew as a teenager
and Dave as a teenager,
878
00:30:39,421 --> 00:30:40,422
they're almost twins.
879
00:30:40,505 --> 00:30:41,590
[man] He's an older model.
880
00:30:41,673 --> 00:30:43,342
- Wonderful.
- Wonderful.
881
00:30:43,425 --> 00:30:44,777
[Clark] He always calls you "mate."
882
00:30:44,801 --> 00:30:46,136
His father does "mate."
883
00:30:46,219 --> 00:30:47,220
"Hello, mate."
884
00:30:48,013 --> 00:30:49,931
And Kate calls you "love."
885
00:30:50,015 --> 00:30:51,767
[woman] Oh, I thought she was, um, feisty.
886
00:30:51,850 --> 00:30:53,101
Like a little ball of fire.
887
00:30:53,185 --> 00:30:55,354
She's so tiny and then
big things come out of her.
888
00:30:55,437 --> 00:30:56,980
It's great that she's on your side,
889
00:30:57,064 --> 00:30:59,167
because she'll always stand up
for what she believes in
890
00:30:59,191 --> 00:31:00,191
and those that she loves.
891
00:31:00,233 --> 00:31:01,360
[woman] They're a rare pair.
892
00:31:03,487 --> 00:31:04,696
They were from the start.
893
00:31:06,323 --> 00:31:07,991
In itself, it's quite a-
894
00:31:08,075 --> 00:31:09,355
story, their marriage, you know.
895
00:31:10,494 --> 00:31:12,138
[Kate] I was gong to come here,
you know, for the two years
896
00:31:12,162 --> 00:31:13,848
and I was gong on to
Australia for two years,
897
00:31:13,872 --> 00:31:15,415
work my way around the world,
898
00:31:15,499 --> 00:31:16,642
and then I was gong back to Devon.
899
00:31:16,666 --> 00:31:18,126
And wasn't gong to get married
900
00:31:18,210 --> 00:31:20,104
because that was not
on my list of things to do at all.
901
00:31:20,128 --> 00:31:21,505
[David] I was in the Navy
902
00:31:21,588 --> 00:31:23,465
stationed on an aircraft
carrier, the Hornet,
903
00:31:23,548 --> 00:31:24,800
in Long Beach, California.
904
00:31:24,883 --> 00:31:26,802
A guy came into the shop one day,
905
00:31:26,885 --> 00:31:29,238
into the electronic shop,
and said he had two English nurses
906
00:31:29,262 --> 00:31:30,281
who wanted to go to Disney Land.
907
00:31:30,305 --> 00:31:31,681
We were too cheap to pay the fare.
908
00:31:31,765 --> 00:31:34,684
Yeah, two cheap English nurses
and I took the little one...
909
00:31:36,061 --> 00:31:38,146
and left him with the tall one,
910
00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:39,439
and uh...
911
00:31:39,940 --> 00:31:41,900
they didn't work out so well, but we did.
912
00:31:41,983 --> 00:31:44,611
We went out 13 times
in the first two weeks.
913
00:31:44,694 --> 00:31:46,047
And he could quote Shakespeare by the way,
914
00:31:46,071 --> 00:31:47,864
so I knew it was all right.
915
00:31:47,948 --> 00:31:49,408
Five months later, I'm married.
916
00:31:49,491 --> 00:31:51,827
[David] And we moved down
to San Diego and started
917
00:31:51,910 --> 00:31:53,620
working on a baby, but nothing happened.
918
00:31:53,703 --> 00:31:54,746
[laughs]
919
00:31:55,247 --> 00:31:57,332
You know, we tried-tried
to get pregnant for a year?
920
00:31:57,416 --> 00:31:58,792
Two years with no result.
921
00:31:58,875 --> 00:32:00,419
At some point, uh...
922
00:32:00,502 --> 00:32:03,672
they mentioned that they might
adopt, and then, I mean,
923
00:32:03,755 --> 00:32:04,881
it was...
924
00:32:05,632 --> 00:32:06,734
you know, it was like a miracle.
925
00:32:06,758 --> 00:32:08,927
Coming to St. Louis and sleeping in...
926
00:32:09,010 --> 00:32:12,097
my mother's uh bedroom seemed
to make people pregnant.
927
00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:13,950
[Kate] And then, of course,
Andrew didn't come.
928
00:32:13,974 --> 00:32:15,100
He was two weeks late.
929
00:32:15,183 --> 00:32:16,743
Things people should know about Andrew:
930
00:32:17,018 --> 00:32:17,936
he was never late.
931
00:32:18,019 --> 00:32:20,772
♪ Orchestral music ♪
932
00:32:42,377 --> 00:32:43,503
[beep]
933
00:32:43,587 --> 00:32:44,379
[Heather over phone] Hey, ít's Heather.
934
00:32:44,463 --> 00:32:46,214
It's nine o'clock, Thursday.
935
00:32:46,298 --> 00:32:48,884
Shirley went into labor around
three o'clock in the afternoon
936
00:32:48,967 --> 00:32:50,135
on Newfoundland time.
937
00:32:50,969 --> 00:32:53,138
[Kurt] On July 18th, 2002...
938
00:32:53,847 --> 00:32:54,848
you were born.
939
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,767
Shirley named you
Zachary Andrew Turner.
940
00:32:59,102 --> 00:33:01,342
Your grandma and grandpa came
to the hospital to see you,
941
00:33:01,396 --> 00:33:03,148
but Shirley wouldn't let them in the door.
942
00:33:03,690 --> 00:33:06,170
They stood five feet away from
you on the other side of a wall.
943
00:33:08,111 --> 00:33:09,404
They left a gift for you.
944
00:33:15,702 --> 00:33:18,371
[John] Well, your dad
was an amazing person.
945
00:33:18,455 --> 00:33:20,665
You're gong to get such a broad range...
946
00:33:21,249 --> 00:33:23,460
of different perspectives of this guy.
947
00:33:23,919 --> 00:33:25,795
You're gonna know what
his character was like.
948
00:33:25,879 --> 00:33:27,519
You will know what fun he was to be with.
949
00:33:28,006 --> 00:33:29,049
Um...
950
00:33:29,466 --> 00:33:31,235
And you're going to know
that you can be proud of him.
951
00:33:31,259 --> 00:33:32,653
[Kurt] I flew to England
to collect the memories
952
00:33:32,677 --> 00:33:34,596
of your grandma's side
of the family for you
953
00:33:34,679 --> 00:33:37,015
and arrived just in time
for a very special occasion.
954
00:33:37,098 --> 00:33:39,184
Well, we're on the eve
of my wedding, for a start.
955
00:33:39,267 --> 00:33:40,060
It's been a bit hectic.
956
00:33:40,143 --> 00:33:42,145
We're just trying to fit
this interview in between
957
00:33:42,229 --> 00:33:43,396
all of the preparations.
958
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:44,790
[Kurt] Your dad crossed
the Atlantic to come here
959
00:33:44,814 --> 00:33:46,417
almost every summer,
but instead of heading
960
00:33:46,441 --> 00:33:48,944
to the tourist attractions in London,
like everyone else,
961
00:33:49,027 --> 00:33:50,946
he'd head to the outskirts to spend time
962
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:53,365
with his grandparents,
aunts, uncles, and cousins.
963
00:33:53,448 --> 00:33:54,574
He was a king to me, man.
964
00:33:54,658 --> 00:33:55,992
Seriously, man.
965
00:33:56,076 --> 00:33:57,845
[Kurt]And in particular,
with his cousin, John.
966
00:33:57,869 --> 00:33:59,805
The main thing, I guess,
about being an only child
967
00:33:59,829 --> 00:34:02,666
is that I get to choose my brothers.
968
00:34:02,749 --> 00:34:04,167
Others of you don't.
969
00:34:04,918 --> 00:34:05,669
Sorry.
970
00:34:05,752 --> 00:34:07,337
John, me brother, and Andrew,
971
00:34:07,420 --> 00:34:08,689
born within a month from each other.
972
00:34:08,713 --> 00:34:10,107
In fact, I think it was about 30 seconds
973
00:34:10,131 --> 00:34:11,192
of, like, the normal child.
974
00:34:11,216 --> 00:34:12,551
"Who are you?" "Who are you?"
975
00:34:12,634 --> 00:34:14,678
And then suddenly, snap, that was it.
976
00:34:14,761 --> 00:34:16,304
We often said,
977
00:34:16,388 --> 00:34:19,057
"Well, least I would have
each other through life."
978
00:34:19,140 --> 00:34:22,143
John would have Andrew,
and Andrew would always have John.
979
00:34:22,227 --> 00:34:24,121
[John] For me, it kind of
blurred into this kind of haze
980
00:34:24,145 --> 00:34:27,482
of me and Andrew running
around castles, country homes,
981
00:34:27,566 --> 00:34:31,236
ardens, I mean, these fantastic,
you know, historical places.
982
00:34:31,319 --> 00:34:33,738
And to us, they were places
to play hide and seek,
983
00:34:33,822 --> 00:34:35,657
buy water pistols, shoot each other,
984
00:34:35,740 --> 00:34:36,926
and then get told off and thrown out.
985
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:38,827
The interest in all this thing always was
986
00:34:38,910 --> 00:34:40,829
just, like, the cultural
differences between
987
00:34:40,912 --> 00:34:42,622
someone who'd come from the US
988
00:34:42,706 --> 00:34:44,207
and someone in the UK, you know,
989
00:34:44,291 --> 00:34:45,851
that would used to really
bug me, the fact that I knew
990
00:34:45,875 --> 00:34:47,103
he was going to get Star Wars, you know,
991
00:34:47,127 --> 00:34:48,287
kind of six months before me.
992
00:34:48,336 --> 00:34:49,671
That was a killer...
993
00:34:50,088 --> 00:34:51,357
because you know, it
would be like, you know,
994
00:34:51,381 --> 00:34:53,800
"Don't you dare tell me
anything about this one."
995
00:34:53,883 --> 00:34:55,486
He was almost kind of as well my kind of...
996
00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:57,429
the chaperoning to...
997
00:34:57,512 --> 00:34:59,055
discovering the U.S., really.
998
00:34:59,139 --> 00:35:00,866
You hear people discriminate
against a whole country
999
00:35:00,890 --> 00:35:02,267
just in one fell swoop.
1000
00:35:02,350 --> 00:35:03,536
You know, but I was fortunate
enough enough to know
1001
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:04,811
very differently to that.
1002
00:35:05,228 --> 00:35:08,648
[Andrew] I really cherish that because...
1003
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:12,986
it is my brother that
got married here tonight.
1004
00:35:13,069 --> 00:35:14,589
Bizarrely enough,
one of the things is I always wanted
1005
00:35:14,613 --> 00:35:16,740
Andrew be my best man at my wedding
1006
00:35:16,823 --> 00:35:18,926
[Kurt] As I would soon find out,
he was in good company.
1007
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:20,511
I had always wanted him to be my best man.
1008
00:35:20,535 --> 00:35:21,953
I'd ask him to be my best man.
1009
00:35:22,037 --> 00:35:24,080
It just made sense to have him as best man.
1010
00:35:24,164 --> 00:35:26,166
I can only assume that you
would have asked him
1011
00:35:26,249 --> 00:35:27,125
to be your best man.
1012
00:35:27,208 --> 00:35:28,335
Everybody, grab your glass.
1013
00:35:28,418 --> 00:35:29,979
We're gonna turn over
to the best man, Andrew.
1014
00:35:30,003 --> 00:35:32,189
"Best man" is a little bit of
a poor title for these things.
1015
00:35:32,213 --> 00:35:33,923
I mean the best man is really the groom.
1016
00:35:34,007 --> 00:35:37,385
I've got to try and sum up
20-some odd years in...
1017
00:35:38,219 --> 00:35:40,013
like, two minutes or so because, you know,
1018
00:35:40,096 --> 00:35:41,657
then people will start
looking at their champagne
1019
00:35:41,681 --> 00:35:43,350
and thinking, "Bagby, shut up or die."
1020
00:35:43,433 --> 00:35:44,976
- [laughter]
- [Andrew] Umm...
1021
00:35:48,188 --> 00:35:49,356
I- I-
1022
00:35:53,026 --> 00:35:54,986
I miss him...
1023
00:35:55,070 --> 00:35:56,446
a lot.
[sniffles]
1024
00:35:57,447 --> 00:35:59,032
Umm...
[sniffles]
1025
00:36:02,535 --> 00:36:05,163
That I wish he was...
1026
00:36:05,914 --> 00:36:09,042
here at the wedding with us-
[sniffles]
1027
00:36:09,125 --> 00:36:14,130
I'd just like to just sit down
and talk to him again.
1028
00:36:14,923 --> 00:36:17,175
Just to have him here with us.
1029
00:36:18,343 --> 00:36:21,179
[Kurt] I really believe
your dad was there that day
1030
00:36:21,262 --> 00:36:23,062
and if we could have
heard him give his toast,
1031
00:36:23,098 --> 00:36:24,849
it might have sounded something like this.
1032
00:36:24,933 --> 00:36:26,851
[Andrew] Why am I standing up here?
1033
00:36:27,477 --> 00:36:29,062
I guess part of it, I've already said.
1034
00:36:29,145 --> 00:36:32,482
Uh, we're brothers and I love you.
1035
00:36:32,565 --> 00:36:36,945
And I know you love me and, uh...
1036
00:36:37,028 --> 00:36:39,781
Yeah, I-I kind of need
to move on from that,
1037
00:36:39,864 --> 00:36:42,450
because like I said I'm a Bagby male.
1038
00:36:42,534 --> 00:36:44,327
We don't-we don't gush very much.
1039
00:36:49,582 --> 00:36:50,917
It made me realize that...
1040
00:36:52,335 --> 00:36:54,170
it doesn't matter where you come from.
1041
00:36:54,254 --> 00:36:58,633
You can meet someone
and literally, with in minutes,
1042
00:36:58,717 --> 00:37:02,011
you can be closer than someone
you've known for 20 years
1043
00:37:02,095 --> 00:37:03,447
and someone who may just
end up being as a friend
1044
00:37:03,471 --> 00:37:04,305
for rest of your life.
1045
00:37:04,389 --> 00:37:05,890
[man] And last question:
1046
00:37:05,974 --> 00:37:07,785
Is there anything you'd
like to say to Zachary?
1047
00:37:07,809 --> 00:37:11,855
Zachary-[laughs] right, uh...
1048
00:37:11,938 --> 00:37:13,314
I, uh, yeah,
1049
00:37:13,398 --> 00:37:15,525
I hope to see you soon, Zachary.
1050
00:37:15,608 --> 00:37:16,693
Anyway...
1051
00:37:17,736 --> 00:37:18,862
[page turning]
1052
00:37:19,237 --> 00:37:20,965
[Kate] Jackie had been
down earlier in the day
1053
00:37:20,989 --> 00:37:23,867
to file the papers that we
wanted custody of the baby.
1054
00:37:23,950 --> 00:37:25,869
We finally went to court because we-
1055
00:37:25,952 --> 00:37:27,912
- You mean family court?
- Yes, in family court.
1056
00:37:27,996 --> 00:37:30,540
You know, they - they negotiated with her.
1057
00:37:30,623 --> 00:37:33,126
I think, you know that already
and - and what access they got
1058
00:37:33,209 --> 00:37:34,711
with Shirley, they negotiated.
1059
00:37:34,794 --> 00:37:36,394
[Kate] We were coming up with agreements
1060
00:37:36,463 --> 00:37:37,940
with this accused murderer, and
the Shirley Turner came up with
1061
00:37:37,964 --> 00:37:39,284
something else just at the moment
1062
00:37:39,340 --> 00:37:40,967
when it was all looking good.
1063
00:37:41,050 --> 00:37:42,886
She always did that
so that it was extended.
1064
00:37:42,969 --> 00:37:44,889
It was like, "I don't
have to pay for my lawyer.
1065
00:37:44,929 --> 00:37:45,969
You have to pay for yours.
1066
00:37:46,014 --> 00:37:47,734
So the longer I could make it, it's better.
1067
00:37:47,766 --> 00:37:49,267
You know, you'll run out of money."
1068
00:37:49,350 --> 00:37:51,978
But then she finally agreed
to give us one hour a week...
1069
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,063
in unified family court.
1070
00:37:54,147 --> 00:37:55,750
[Kurt] Shirley delayed your
grandma and grandpa
1071
00:37:55,774 --> 00:37:57,126
from meeting you for almost a month
1072
00:37:57,150 --> 00:37:58,502
and had them treated like common criminals
1073
00:37:58,526 --> 00:37:59,778
in order to see you.
1074
00:37:59,861 --> 00:38:01,547
She required that during
their one-hour visit,
1075
00:38:01,571 --> 00:38:03,990
they be fully searched
and monitored by a supervisor
1076
00:38:04,073 --> 00:38:06,201
while she waited in the next room.
1077
00:38:06,284 --> 00:38:07,636
[man] When did you first meet him?
1078
00:38:07,660 --> 00:38:10,330
Meet him personally
or meet him by seeing the light
1079
00:38:10,413 --> 00:38:11,998
in Kate and David's eyes?
1080
00:38:12,081 --> 00:38:13,267
[Kate] I mean we were
searched and everything.
1081
00:38:13,291 --> 00:38:14,751
I couldn't wait for him to search.
1082
00:38:14,834 --> 00:38:16,795
I would have zipped off
all my clothes and be...
1083
00:38:16,878 --> 00:38:18,647
as long as I could get
to that baby, you know?
1084
00:38:18,671 --> 00:38:20,632
We went around the
corner and there was this...
1085
00:38:20,715 --> 00:38:22,675
overpowering thing that- [gasps]
1086
00:38:41,236 --> 00:38:44,030
[David] We did not do complete
tug-of-war, though.
1087
00:38:44,113 --> 00:38:45,273
- [Kate] No.
- [David] I just...
1088
00:38:45,824 --> 00:38:47,158
gave him to Kate.
[laughs]
1089
00:38:47,242 --> 00:38:48,660
No, no, we shared.
1090
00:38:48,743 --> 00:38:49,783
[David] No, we took turns.
1091
00:38:49,828 --> 00:38:51,162
The next visit, he was really-
1092
00:38:51,246 --> 00:38:52,598
[Kate] The next time he was dirty,
1093
00:38:52,622 --> 00:38:55,208
so I changed his diaper and
that's when he opened his eyes
1094
00:38:55,291 --> 00:38:56,417
to just kind of look at me,
1095
00:38:56,501 --> 00:38:57,377
and that's when I said to David,
1096
00:38:57,460 --> 00:38:58,628
"Oh my God, he's Andrew."
1097
00:38:58,711 --> 00:39:00,689
[Jackie] I had seen lots of
pictures of Andrew at this point
1098
00:39:00,713 --> 00:39:02,358
and even, you know,
pictures of him as a child
1099
00:39:02,382 --> 00:39:03,716
and I thought...
1100
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,261
"Holy crow," you know, "there's no doubt."
1101
00:39:06,344 --> 00:39:07,929
[Kate] We wanted more time.
1102
00:39:08,012 --> 00:39:10,431
So we went back,
and this time, she accused us
1103
00:39:10,515 --> 00:39:13,059
of keeping him beyond the time
1104
00:39:13,142 --> 00:39:15,079
so that he was distraught
when he went back to her.
1105
00:39:15,103 --> 00:39:18,481
She'd try a lot of manipulations
without thinking them through
1106
00:39:18,565 --> 00:39:21,860
and this one was, you know,
a no-brainier really.
1107
00:39:21,943 --> 00:39:27,031
If she accuses us of doing
anything wrong to the baby...
1108
00:39:27,115 --> 00:39:31,327
were she's indirectly accusing
Marine of being a slouch.
1109
00:39:31,411 --> 00:39:32,888
- [man] The supervisor?
- The supervisor.
1110
00:39:32,912 --> 00:39:34,706
You know, Marine’s not gong to take that.
1111
00:39:35,123 --> 00:39:36,666
So she just didn’t think it through.
1112
00:39:36,749 --> 00:39:38,269
[Kurt] While your grandparents and Jackie
1113
00:39:38,293 --> 00:39:40,312
battled Shirley for more time
with you in family court,
1114
00:39:40,336 --> 00:39:42,839
the law in the extradition
proceedings was still slow.
1115
00:39:42,922 --> 00:39:44,942
September 19th,
the extradition hearing finally began
1116
00:39:44,966 --> 00:39:47,051
and evidence was finally presented.
1117
00:39:47,135 --> 00:39:48,988
But just as everything was
moving along smoothly
1118
00:39:49,012 --> 00:39:51,452
Shirley’s lawyer, Randy Pearcy,
threw a wrench into the works.
1119
00:39:51,514 --> 00:39:53,933
Because the authority
to proceed with these hearings
1120
00:39:54,017 --> 00:39:55,870
provided by the Minister of Justice
early that year
1121
00:39:55,894 --> 00:39:58,229
had failed to specify
subsections one or two
1122
00:39:58,313 --> 00:40:00,231
of section 229(a) of the criminal code,
1123
00:40:00,315 --> 00:40:02,108
the authority to proceed was invalid,
1124
00:40:02,191 --> 00:40:04,652
the 90-day limit to amend it
was now past, and therefore,
1125
00:40:04,736 --> 00:40:06,487
all extradition proceedings against Shirley
1126
00:40:06,571 --> 00:40:08,698
should be dropped so she
can get on with her life.
1127
00:40:09,741 --> 00:40:11,781
Judge Derek Greene now had
to rule on whether or not
1128
00:40:11,826 --> 00:40:13,846
to throw out the entire case,
which would take place
1129
00:40:13,870 --> 00:40:16,247
on October 18th, which
was delayed four days
1130
00:40:16,331 --> 00:40:18,625
until October 22nd, where Judge Green
1131
00:40:18,708 --> 00:40:20,144
told Pearcy to forget about
it and said they would
1132
00:40:20,168 --> 00:40:22,795
continue with the extradition
hearing on November 14th.
1133
00:40:22,879 --> 00:40:23,880
[boom]
1134
00:40:24,714 --> 00:40:26,633
Meanwhile, I came back to California,
1135
00:40:26,716 --> 00:40:28,277
pointed the van East toward Newfoundland
1136
00:40:28,301 --> 00:40:30,136
and set off across the continent on my way
1137
00:40:30,219 --> 00:40:32,489
to see you, stopping all over
the map to collect the memories
1138
00:40:32,513 --> 00:40:34,599
of a whole spectrum
of people your dad touched.
1139
00:40:34,682 --> 00:40:36,768
♪ Jazzy music ♪
1140
00:40:37,810 --> 00:40:39,288
But it was when I pulled into St. Louis
1141
00:40:39,312 --> 00:40:40,521
to see your grandpa's family-
1142
00:40:40,605 --> 00:40:41,439
[man] Are you the oldest?
1143
00:40:41,522 --> 00:40:42,398
Yeah, I'm the oldest.
1144
00:40:42,482 --> 00:40:44,525
Uh, Bob was the middle one.
1145
00:40:44,609 --> 00:40:45,794
He's one year younger than me.
1146
00:40:45,818 --> 00:40:47,779
[Kurt] That I discovered
a very special place
1147
00:40:47,862 --> 00:40:49,489
where your dad had left his heart.
1148
00:40:49,572 --> 00:40:51,783
[woman] Andrew and Bob
were very, very close.
1149
00:40:51,866 --> 00:40:53,302
[Jim] To - to see them around each other,
1150
00:40:53,326 --> 00:40:55,787
you'd think that Andrew
had grown up his entire life
1151
00:40:55,870 --> 00:40:56,788
around Bob.
1152
00:40:56,871 --> 00:40:58,456
You wouldn't know that it was, um,
1153
00:40:58,539 --> 00:41:00,291
once-a-summer relationship.
1154
00:41:00,375 --> 00:41:02,043
[woman] Bob used take Andrew out,
1155
00:41:02,126 --> 00:41:04,170
let him drive the truck
before he was old enough.
1156
00:41:04,253 --> 00:41:05,648
- [man] Yeah.
- [woman] And they'd play pool.
1157
00:41:05,672 --> 00:41:07,674
And my dad was very good at pool,
1158
00:41:07,757 --> 00:41:10,093
but then Matt came along who was even, mm,
1159
00:41:10,176 --> 00:41:11,302
probably better at pool.
1160
00:41:11,386 --> 00:41:12,613
[Mack] Well, I would say was excellent,
1161
00:41:12,637 --> 00:41:13,972
but he wasn't as good as me.
1162
00:41:14,055 --> 00:41:16,891
He probably still owes me around $30,000.
1163
00:41:16,975 --> 00:41:18,518
[Earlene] Hey, Mac...
1164
00:41:18,601 --> 00:41:20,853
is my daughter Rhonda's...
1165
00:41:20,937 --> 00:41:21,980
first husband.
1166
00:41:22,438 --> 00:41:23,499
I don't know, they just clicked.
1167
00:41:23,523 --> 00:41:24,541
I mean, they just clicked.
1168
00:41:24,565 --> 00:41:26,275
I can't explain why or anything-
1169
00:41:26,359 --> 00:41:28,653
Automatically my little brother.
[laughs]
1170
00:41:28,736 --> 00:41:29,904
It's the way I look at it.
1171
00:41:30,571 --> 00:41:32,573
♪ Soft piano ♪
1172
00:41:33,074 --> 00:41:35,159
We just become friends.
1173
00:41:37,245 --> 00:41:40,248
Yeah, this is our clubhouse,
which me and Bob had.
1174
00:41:40,999 --> 00:41:42,083
And...
1175
00:41:42,875 --> 00:41:44,419
he used to love to come down here.
1176
00:41:45,128 --> 00:41:46,981
And as soon as he'd hit town,
we'd come out here
1177
00:41:47,005 --> 00:41:48,214
and we'd just stay for days.
1178
00:41:48,297 --> 00:41:49,817
David and Kate and them would come out,
1179
00:41:49,841 --> 00:41:51,276
always had big barbecue or fish fry,
1180
00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:52,611
take the jon boat and head up the river,
1181
00:41:52,635 --> 00:41:53,720
huge cabin.
1182
00:41:53,803 --> 00:41:54,637
I mean, I've gotten to the point
1183
00:41:54,721 --> 00:41:56,407
where we didn’t even have
to think about who was gonna
1184
00:41:56,431 --> 00:41:57,515
drive the boat íf Andrew-
1185
00:41:57,598 --> 00:41:58,850
[woman] At nighttime,
1186
00:41:58,933 --> 00:42:00,619
they'd stack up the
logs and build a bonfire
1187
00:42:00,643 --> 00:42:02,311
and we would buy fireworks.
1188
00:42:02,395 --> 00:42:04,331
And it would be beautiful,
'cause it was real dark-
1189
00:42:04,355 --> 00:42:05,815
[man] ...check and see íf you're hurt
1190
00:42:05,898 --> 00:42:07,042
when you're gong to be a damn doctor
1191
00:42:07,066 --> 00:42:07,984
you gotta know yourself.
1192
00:42:08,067 --> 00:42:10,278
I said, "If you were smart,
you'd be a gynecologist."
1193
00:42:11,529 --> 00:42:13,406
[woman] Doctor came into the room
1194
00:42:13,489 --> 00:42:15,283
and, uh, said he had bad news.
1195
00:42:15,366 --> 00:42:17,577
He said that the cancer...
1196
00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:18,870
had spread...
1197
00:42:19,871 --> 00:42:21,998
to his bones and to his liver.
1198
00:42:22,081 --> 00:42:23,916
And I look at him and said, "I want truth."
1199
00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:26,335
He said, "three to six months."
1200
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,507
[Mack] I mean I can come down
here any time I want,
1201
00:42:33,051 --> 00:42:34,302
I lost...
1202
00:42:37,930 --> 00:42:40,183
I lost all interest in a lot of things
1203
00:42:40,266 --> 00:42:41,726
when Bob died, for some reason.
1204
00:42:42,894 --> 00:42:44,854
[Earlene] I know it was
hard on Andrew, too.
1205
00:42:47,732 --> 00:42:49,692
[unintelligible] brought
me a little note letter.
1206
00:42:51,944 --> 00:42:53,863
Bob was very proud of him.
1207
00:42:55,698 --> 00:42:58,098
[Mack] I imagine him and Andrew
are laughing at me right now.
1208
00:43:02,371 --> 00:43:03,664
Both assholes.
1209
00:43:05,208 --> 00:43:07,585
♪ Choral music ♪
1210
00:43:09,128 --> 00:43:10,838
[Zachary]Are you sad now?
1211
00:43:10,922 --> 00:43:12,131
[Jim] Yeah, I'm still sad.
1212
00:43:15,551 --> 00:43:16,677
I'll be okay.
1213
00:43:17,929 --> 00:43:18,929
Here, give me a hug.
1214
00:43:18,971 --> 00:43:20,139
That'll make me feel better.
1215
00:43:22,100 --> 00:43:23,518
He was great.
1216
00:43:23,601 --> 00:43:25,436
If there's anything I
can do, I'll be there.
1217
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,063
Well, we hope to see him.
1218
00:43:27,146 --> 00:43:29,065
And we can show him
pictures and everything.
1219
00:43:29,148 --> 00:43:30,793
And we'd love to be a part of that as well.
1220
00:43:30,817 --> 00:43:32,235
To share our lives with him.
1221
00:43:32,318 --> 00:43:34,463
Oh, I wish I could be there
and pinch those little cheeks.
1222
00:43:34,487 --> 00:43:35,988
[laughs]
1223
00:43:36,781 --> 00:43:39,700
Zachary, you'll never know what you missed.
1224
00:43:41,369 --> 00:43:42,370
[beep]
1225
00:43:53,631 --> 00:43:55,508
[Kurt] On November 14th, 2002,
1226
00:43:55,591 --> 00:43:57,152
Judge Derek Greene declared that a properly
1227
00:43:57,176 --> 00:43:59,428
instructed jury could
likely find Shirley guilty.
1228
00:43:59,512 --> 00:44:00,930
And ordered her incarcerated
1229
00:44:01,013 --> 00:44:02,825
in the Clarenville Correctional
Center for Women
1230
00:44:02,849 --> 00:44:04,689
awaiting a decision
for the Minister of Justice
1231
00:44:04,725 --> 00:44:06,245
to surrender her to the United States.
1232
00:44:06,269 --> 00:44:08,896
She always seemed to know
exactly when to turn nice.
1233
00:44:08,980 --> 00:44:10,898
And it was a pretty
obvious time to turn nice.
1234
00:44:10,982 --> 00:44:12,167
[Kurt] Suddenly, Shirley turned around
1235
00:44:12,191 --> 00:44:13,794
and gave your grandma
and grandpa custody of you
1236
00:44:13,818 --> 00:44:15,045
for as long as she was in prison.
1237
00:44:15,069 --> 00:44:17,280
We could stop in and see him
whenever we liked.
1238
00:44:17,363 --> 00:44:18,948
And we did.
1239
00:44:19,031 --> 00:44:21,200
They were so excited,
and it was Christmas Eve and...
1240
00:44:21,284 --> 00:44:23,327
you know, it had
started to snow a little bit
1241
00:44:23,411 --> 00:44:25,746
and the doorbell was ringing
and someone showed up
1242
00:44:25,830 --> 00:44:28,040
with a present and then,
I think Alan Goodricky,
1243
00:44:28,124 --> 00:44:30,001
who was a professor,
one of Andrew’s professors,
1244
00:44:30,084 --> 00:44:32,003
he showed up with a...
1245
00:44:32,086 --> 00:44:33,939
something, I don't know
what, and then you know,
1246
00:44:33,963 --> 00:44:35,858
"finally, I said, "What do
you got, like, the Magis
1247
00:44:35,882 --> 00:44:38,384
showing up at the-
[laughs] at your house?"
1248
00:44:38,467 --> 00:44:40,487
[woman] We went to church
with them on Christmas Eve.
1249
00:44:40,511 --> 00:44:42,346
If Zachery got fussy, uh, you know,
1250
00:44:42,430 --> 00:44:44,390
they would pick him up
and they would feed him
1251
00:44:44,473 --> 00:44:46,073
and they walk to the back of the church.
1252
00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:47,286
If there's people in this church
1253
00:44:47,310 --> 00:44:48,561
that don't know the five of us.
1254
00:44:48,644 --> 00:44:50,354
It looks like these are the grandparents,
1255
00:44:50,438 --> 00:44:52,607
we're the parents,
and Zachary is our child.
1256
00:44:52,690 --> 00:44:55,443
I said, "We look like terrible parents!"
1257
00:44:55,526 --> 00:44:58,070
[woman] He was besotted
with them, the child was.
1258
00:44:58,446 --> 00:45:00,531
You know, no one could
comfort him, only Kate.
1259
00:45:00,615 --> 00:45:02,366
They were so happy-
1260
00:45:02,450 --> 00:45:04,250
[Kurt] But it wasn't
all sweetness and light.
1261
00:45:04,327 --> 00:45:05,703
You came with strings attached.
1262
00:45:05,786 --> 00:45:08,623
The reason we reach consent
and reason she reached consent
1263
00:45:08,706 --> 00:45:10,708
is if you reach consent...
1264
00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:13,377
you have some control.
1265
00:45:13,961 --> 00:45:16,214
We accept a phone call a day in from jail
1266
00:45:16,297 --> 00:45:17,840
to talk about Zachary.
1267
00:45:17,924 --> 00:45:20,218
Which a foster home
would have done anyways.
1268
00:45:20,301 --> 00:45:22,011
[automated voice] This is Aliant Telecom.
1269
00:45:22,094 --> 00:45:24,055
You have a collect call from-
1270
00:45:24,138 --> 00:45:25,139
[over phone] Shirley.
1271
00:45:25,306 --> 00:45:26,866
[automated voice] You may press one now
1272
00:45:26,891 --> 00:45:27,808
to accept the charges.
[beep]
1273
00:45:27,892 --> 00:45:28,643
Thank you.
1274
00:45:28,726 --> 00:45:29,477
[David] Hello?
1275
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,062
- [Shirley] Hi.
- [David]. Yeah, hi.
1276
00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:53,769
We'd bring him up to the
prison for a weekly visit.
1277
00:46:58,607 --> 00:47:00,318
That was an astounding...
1278
00:47:05,823 --> 00:47:06,824
imposition.
1279
00:47:06,907 --> 00:47:09,577
Each week, they would
drive two hours to the jail
1280
00:47:09,660 --> 00:47:12,747
where Shirley was so that she
would be able to see her son
1281
00:47:12,830 --> 00:47:14,270
and to follow the visitation rights,
1282
00:47:14,332 --> 00:47:17,418
because just as Kate and David
wanted visitation rights,
1283
00:47:17,501 --> 00:47:20,129
um, they had to honor
Shirley's visitation rights.
1284
00:47:20,212 --> 00:47:21,380
And in the winter.
1285
00:47:21,464 --> 00:47:23,233
But the weather, needless
to say, in Newfoundland-
1286
00:47:23,257 --> 00:47:24,633
The weather here is terrible.
1287
00:47:24,717 --> 00:47:27,011
[woman] To make that journey was awful.
1288
00:47:27,303 --> 00:47:29,805
Only Kate and David would
have done it really, I think.
1289
00:47:31,557 --> 00:47:32,808
Nobody else would have done it.
1290
00:47:32,892 --> 00:47:35,978
The one guard the one day
said to Kate and David
1291
00:47:36,062 --> 00:47:37,605
speaking to Zachary,
1292
00:47:37,688 --> 00:47:40,691
"Zachary, I hope, um,
someday you will realize
1293
00:47:40,775 --> 00:47:44,111
how brave and courageous
your grandparents are."
1294
00:47:44,195 --> 00:47:46,822
Like, I think if I could be
a quarter of the grandma
1295
00:47:46,906 --> 00:47:49,450
that Kate is, I'll be such a success.
1296
00:47:50,117 --> 00:47:52,036
You know, seeing them with Zachary,
1297
00:47:52,119 --> 00:47:53,839
just to see the looks on their faces, Kurt,
1298
00:47:53,913 --> 00:47:55,998
when - when-when they'd
have him, you know-
1299
00:47:56,082 --> 00:47:58,918
[Jackie] You know to see them so happy...
1300
00:48:03,381 --> 00:48:04,715
and then, you know...
1301
00:48:06,592 --> 00:48:07,843
that ended, didn't it?
1302
00:48:08,344 --> 00:48:09,929
♪ Acoustic fingerpicking ♪
1303
00:48:10,763 --> 00:48:12,366
[Kurt] Now crossing
the east coast of the U.S.,
1304
00:48:12,390 --> 00:48:13,849
I was almost to you.
1305
00:48:13,933 --> 00:48:16,268
I pulled off the main
road for one last stop:
1306
00:48:16,352 --> 00:48:18,270
a small town, Utopia,
where your dad had spent
1307
00:48:18,354 --> 00:48:20,106
the last four months of his life.
1308
00:48:20,189 --> 00:48:22,108
It was here that I would
find the only people
1309
00:48:22,191 --> 00:48:23,859
who knew what he was like as a doctor,
1310
00:48:23,943 --> 00:48:25,528
just days before they would graduate
1311
00:48:25,611 --> 00:48:26,695
and scatter to the winds.
1312
00:48:26,779 --> 00:48:29,949
[woman] Oh, Latrobe
is famous for Mr. Rogers-
1313
00:48:30,032 --> 00:48:31,659
[man] Of, uh, children's TV fame.
1314
00:48:31,742 --> 00:48:33,119
[Jennifer] Rolling Rock beer,
1315
00:48:33,202 --> 00:48:35,704
ít's the birthplace
of professional football...
1316
00:48:35,788 --> 00:48:37,289
though, some would argue that.
1317
00:48:37,373 --> 00:48:38,874
Strickler's Pharmacy.
1318
00:48:38,958 --> 00:48:41,318
I'm told that the Banana Split
was invented here in Latrobe.
1319
00:48:41,377 --> 00:48:42,711
And Arnold Palmer.
1320
00:48:42,795 --> 00:48:45,047
[man] Mr. Palmer's a very important figure
1321
00:48:45,131 --> 00:48:46,257
in this community.
1322
00:48:46,340 --> 00:48:48,443
[man] This is a community where people
don't even lock their doors.
1323
00:48:48,467 --> 00:48:50,028
[Kurt] Your dad's door was
directly across the street
1324
00:48:50,052 --> 00:48:52,322
from the hospital, giving him
a 30-second commute to work.
1325
00:48:52,346 --> 00:48:53,906
[Man] And I said, "Can I call you Andy?"
1326
00:48:53,931 --> 00:48:55,409
And he goes, "Actually, I don't like Andy."
1327
00:48:55,433 --> 00:48:56,952
[man] He said, "But you can call me Andrew,
1328
00:48:56,976 --> 00:48:58,703
you can call me Bagby,
you can call me Bags."
1329
00:48:58,727 --> 00:49:00,229
[woman] I never did.
[laughs]
1330
00:49:00,312 --> 00:49:01,957
[Kurt] 10 minutes after I arrived,
doctor Bill DeCuchillo
1331
00:49:01,981 --> 00:49:03,482
picked me up to show me around town.
1332
00:49:05,609 --> 00:49:06,861
His class.
1333
00:49:06,944 --> 00:49:08,154
It it was Bill DeCuchillo.
1334
00:49:08,237 --> 00:49:09,756
[Kurt]And after hanging
with Bill for a short while,
1335
00:49:09,780 --> 00:49:11,740
I completely understood why.
1336
00:49:11,824 --> 00:49:13,593
This is yours to take
with you in your travels
1337
00:49:13,617 --> 00:49:15,178
to remember the chief resident's office.
1338
00:49:15,202 --> 00:49:16,370
They were like Mutt and Jeff.
1339
00:49:16,454 --> 00:49:17,681
[man] They were Tweedledee
and Tweedledum.
1340
00:49:17,705 --> 00:49:19,790
[Greg] Bill was just devastated,
as we all were,
1341
00:49:19,874 --> 00:49:20,958
but especially so.
1342
00:49:21,041 --> 00:49:22,721
I think Bill had spent more time with him.
1343
00:49:22,793 --> 00:49:25,421
And I-know that as a third-year resident,
1344
00:49:25,504 --> 00:49:27,131
Clark was quite close with him.
1345
00:49:27,214 --> 00:49:30,426
He was this-this surgical
resident from Syracuse.
1346
00:49:30,509 --> 00:49:32,553
Being a former surgical
intern, that's a big deal.
1347
00:49:32,636 --> 00:49:34,346
They're all about cutting and
1348
00:49:34,430 --> 00:49:35,615
what we do is a little bit different.
1349
00:49:35,639 --> 00:49:36,891
It's more about people.
1350
00:49:36,974 --> 00:49:38,350
I would say to him, um,
1351
00:49:38,434 --> 00:49:39,536
"Now, you go out there and you go,"
1352
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,413
and you listen to the heart
and you talk to those people
1353
00:49:41,437 --> 00:49:42,831
because, you know, like, people talk.
1354
00:49:42,855 --> 00:49:44,166
They're not just unconscious all the time.
1355
00:49:44,190 --> 00:49:45,584
[Kurt] Your dad also had an office visit
1356
00:49:45,608 --> 00:49:47,169
every Monday afternoon at the last place
1357
00:49:47,193 --> 00:49:48,611
he was ever seen alive:
1358
00:49:48,694 --> 00:49:50,571
a clinic in the small town of Salzburg,
1359
00:49:50,654 --> 00:49:53,115
a beautiful 30-minute drive
away through the country,
1360
00:49:53,199 --> 00:49:55,993
past a lovely spot called
Keystone State Park.
1361
00:49:56,076 --> 00:49:58,412
He was already, just
within a couple of months,
1362
00:49:58,496 --> 00:50:00,498
already getting patients to Cali
1363
00:50:00,581 --> 00:50:02,124
and specifically ask for him.
1364
00:50:02,208 --> 00:50:03,626
Hi, I'm Dr. Bagby.
1365
00:50:03,709 --> 00:50:05,628
People trusted him when
he walked into a room.
1366
00:50:05,711 --> 00:50:07,630
Medicine's a little like being a detective.
1367
00:50:07,713 --> 00:50:10,090
Does anyone else in your
family experience this?
1368
00:50:10,174 --> 00:50:12,134
You think of people who have passed,
1369
00:50:12,218 --> 00:50:14,887
you can't help but paint
a rosy glow around them.
1370
00:50:14,970 --> 00:50:16,722
More than half of it...
1371
00:50:16,805 --> 00:50:18,766
is being able to get a story on somebody.
1372
00:50:18,849 --> 00:50:20,559
It's not what's happening in this case.
1373
00:50:20,643 --> 00:50:22,204
I'll always be grateful to him
because he diagnosed
1374
00:50:22,228 --> 00:50:23,955
my nephew's cancer,
and he diagnosed it early enough
1375
00:50:23,979 --> 00:50:25,940
that he was able to get complete treatment.
1376
00:50:26,023 --> 00:50:28,609
He was really pretty
outstanding at this stuff.
1377
00:50:28,692 --> 00:50:30,170
He was told he may never have children.
1378
00:50:30,194 --> 00:50:31,779
He just has a newborn baby.
1379
00:50:31,862 --> 00:50:34,156
[man] He always told me
that he wanted to practice
1380
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:37,368
in a town the size of Latrobe and be, like,
1381
00:50:37,451 --> 00:50:39,245
the doc of the town, know everybody,
1382
00:50:39,328 --> 00:50:40,538
and know everybody's family.
1383
00:50:40,621 --> 00:50:42,461
[Kate] And we really
thought he'd found heaven.
1384
00:50:44,959 --> 00:50:46,627
But we packed our bags and went to bed
1385
00:50:46,710 --> 00:50:49,088
because we knew were gong to be leaving
the next morning.
1386
00:50:49,171 --> 00:50:52,132
[David] And we stayed in-in
the upstairs spare bedroom
1387
00:50:52,216 --> 00:50:53,551
of Andrew’s house.
1388
00:50:53,634 --> 00:50:55,970
[Kate] The next morning,
we saw him off at 6:30.
1389
00:50:56,053 --> 00:50:57,822
And as I said, that's when
I noticed he was blinking
1390
00:50:57,846 --> 00:50:59,098
for the first time.
1391
00:50:59,473 --> 00:51:01,225
And he did that when he was a little boy
1392
00:51:01,308 --> 00:51:03,894
when he was nervous
or worried about something,
1393
00:51:03,978 --> 00:51:05,229
just blink...
1394
00:51:05,646 --> 00:51:06,646
blink, blink.
1395
00:51:06,689 --> 00:51:08,232
And I wanted to say to him,
1396
00:51:08,315 --> 00:51:09,459
"Oh, Andrew, what's the matter?"
1397
00:51:09,483 --> 00:51:10,734
He stood up.
1398
00:51:10,985 --> 00:51:13,028
And I remember he looked
at us such a long time and-
1399
00:51:13,112 --> 00:51:16,240
but he came over and he
kissed me and kissed his dad
1400
00:51:16,323 --> 00:51:17,843
and then he got halfway into that room
1401
00:51:17,908 --> 00:51:19,410
and he came back and kissed us again,
1402
00:51:19,493 --> 00:51:21,704
and we went with him and he
kissed us again at the door,
1403
00:51:21,787 --> 00:51:24,415
and then he got across the hospital there
1404
00:51:24,498 --> 00:51:26,041
down that alley and just went...
1405
00:51:26,709 --> 00:51:28,752
[medical beeping]
1406
00:51:30,254 --> 00:51:31,505
And he was gone.
1407
00:51:32,673 --> 00:51:34,508
That was the last time until...
1408
00:51:37,177 --> 00:51:38,178
we saw him dead.
1409
00:51:39,138 --> 00:51:42,683
"[woman] And I can remember
Andrew saying, "If I-
1410
00:51:42,766 --> 00:51:45,311
if I die tomorrow, all I want you to do
1411
00:51:45,394 --> 00:51:47,646
is sit and, um,
1412
00:51:47,730 --> 00:51:49,231
toast a beer to me.
1413
00:51:49,315 --> 00:51:50,399
Do you remember that?
1414
00:51:50,482 --> 00:51:51,501
When his parents had finished cleaning
1415
00:51:51,525 --> 00:51:52,985
out his apartment, they gave me...
1416
00:51:53,068 --> 00:51:54,403
his last...
1417
00:51:54,486 --> 00:51:55,279
beer.
1418
00:51:55,362 --> 00:51:56,822
We have one bottle remaining.
1419
00:51:56,905 --> 00:51:59,074
We're going to crack
Andrew's last Fuller's ESB
1420
00:51:59,158 --> 00:52:00,034
right now and, uh,
1421
00:52:00,117 --> 00:52:01,717
Kurt and I are going to sip it together.
1422
00:52:02,244 --> 00:52:03,537
Little toast to our friend.
1423
00:52:05,039 --> 00:52:06,373
To Andrew, my good friend.
1424
00:52:06,457 --> 00:52:07,791
I can't wait to see you again.
1425
00:52:09,126 --> 00:52:11,086
[engine running]
1426
00:52:11,170 --> 00:52:12,463
And then, of course,
1427
00:52:12,546 --> 00:52:14,089
the unthinkable happened again.
1428
00:52:14,173 --> 00:52:15,924
They let her out of jail again.
1429
00:52:16,008 --> 00:52:17,343
And we had to give him back.
1430
00:52:18,385 --> 00:52:20,387
On January 10th, 2003.
1431
00:52:20,471 --> 00:52:21,221
[Kurt] Shirley was out of money
1432
00:52:21,305 --> 00:52:22,181
and out of a lawyer.
1433
00:52:22,264 --> 00:52:23,984
So she wrote directly to judge Derek Greene
1434
00:52:24,058 --> 00:52:25,952
who responded through his
secretary with instructions
1435
00:52:25,976 --> 00:52:27,704
on how to write her
own appeal of his decision
1436
00:52:27,728 --> 00:52:29,480
to incarcerate her
while awaiting an order
1437
00:52:29,563 --> 00:52:31,923
from the Minister of Justice
to surrender her to the States.
1438
00:52:31,982 --> 00:52:33,710
[woman] I have a few friends
who are judges and...
1439
00:52:33,734 --> 00:52:35,486
no, [laughs] there's no way...
1440
00:52:35,569 --> 00:52:37,696
they would ever have responded...
1441
00:52:37,780 --> 00:52:39,948
in the way that judge responded to Shirley.
1442
00:52:40,032 --> 00:52:42,010
[Kurt] She did and was
let back onto the streets by-
1443
00:52:42,034 --> 00:52:45,746
- Judge Gail Welsh.
- Judge Gail Welsh.
1444
00:52:45,829 --> 00:52:47,309
[Kurt] Welsh refused to even consider
1445
00:52:47,373 --> 00:52:48,749
prosecutor Mike Madden's argument
1446
00:52:48,832 --> 00:52:50,018
that Shirley’s appeal was frivolous,
1447
00:52:50,042 --> 00:52:51,811
even though multiple Legal
Aid Commission attorneys
1448
00:52:51,835 --> 00:52:52,961
had reviewed her appeal
1449
00:52:53,045 --> 00:52:55,089
and refused to waste their time
representing her.
1450
00:52:55,172 --> 00:52:56,006
[Kate] And íf you could have seen-
1451
00:52:56,090 --> 00:52:57,716
I knew that we were gong to be
1452
00:52:57,800 --> 00:52:59,677
seeing Shirley turn and walk free
1453
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,137
the minute that woman walked
into the room, Judge Welsh.
1454
00:53:02,221 --> 00:53:04,348
She was almost fawning with Shirley Turner,
1455
00:53:04,431 --> 00:53:05,599
as-as I saw it.
1456
00:53:05,683 --> 00:53:07,768
"Oh, Dr. Turner," she said.
1457
00:53:07,851 --> 00:53:09,287
[Kurt] I recognize that
you're not represented,
1458
00:53:09,311 --> 00:53:11,522
but also know that, as a doctor,
you're quite capable,
1459
00:53:11,605 --> 00:53:12,773
so I'm gong to run-
1460
00:53:12,856 --> 00:53:14,608
Dr. Turner, I'm not trying to exclude you.
1461
00:53:14,692 --> 00:53:16,612
However, the argument
would work to your benefit.
1462
00:53:16,694 --> 00:53:17,796
That's why I'm particularly interested
1463
00:53:17,820 --> 00:53:18,987
in Mr. Madden's response.
1464
00:53:19,071 --> 00:53:20,572
I'd taken Zachery to prison,
1465
00:53:20,656 --> 00:53:22,258
I'd sat in their same little room with her,
1466
00:53:22,282 --> 00:53:23,802
and here I am having to listen to this
1467
00:53:23,826 --> 00:53:25,160
and the judge fawn on this woman.
1468
00:53:25,244 --> 00:53:27,222
[Kurt] And Welsh actually
asked an accused murderer
1469
00:53:27,246 --> 00:53:28,872
to promise she'd behave herself.
1470
00:53:28,956 --> 00:53:31,101
"If I make an order giving
you judicial interim release"
1471
00:53:31,125 --> 00:53:33,019
it would be on the basis that
you would not attempt to flee
1472
00:53:33,043 --> 00:53:35,212
or hide or avoid subsequent
judicial proceedings
1473
00:53:35,295 --> 00:53:36,171
related to this matter?
1474
00:53:36,255 --> 00:53:37,339
Yes.
1475
00:53:37,423 --> 00:53:38,441
Is that completely understood by you?
1476
00:53:38,465 --> 00:53:39,967
Yes, I completely understand.
1477
00:53:40,050 --> 00:53:42,553
And here, David and I,
as if we don't even exist
1478
00:53:42,636 --> 00:53:43,554
and we don't exist.
1479
00:53:43,637 --> 00:53:44,638
They don't care about us.
1480
00:53:44,722 --> 00:53:45,824
They don't even care about the victim.
1481
00:53:45,848 --> 00:53:46,765
[Kurt] She concluded that-
1482
00:53:46,849 --> 00:53:48,600
And this is from her written decision.
1483
00:53:48,684 --> 00:53:50,495
[Kurt] Dr. Turner's
detention is not necessary
1484
00:53:50,519 --> 00:53:51,437
in the public interest.
1485
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:52,831
While the offense with which she is charged
1486
00:53:52,855 --> 00:53:54,398
is a violent and serious one,
1487
00:53:54,481 --> 00:53:56,483
it was not directed at the public at large.
1488
00:53:56,567 --> 00:53:58,527
There is no indication of
a psychological disorder
1489
00:53:58,569 --> 00:54:00,255
that would give concern
about potential harm
1490
00:54:00,279 --> 00:54:02,823
to the public generally,
as her crime, while violent,
1491
00:54:02,906 --> 00:54:04,283
was specific in nature.
1492
00:54:04,366 --> 00:54:05,701
She is saying, in effect,
1493
00:54:05,784 --> 00:54:08,036
if I understand that-that sentence,
1494
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:09,288
even if she did it...
1495
00:54:10,372 --> 00:54:12,040
she's not a danger to the community
1496
00:54:12,124 --> 00:54:13,764
because she's already killed the only one
1497
00:54:13,792 --> 00:54:14,877
she wanted to kill.
1498
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:16,587
He's the one she was mad at.
1499
00:54:17,463 --> 00:54:18,464
He's dead.
1500
00:54:19,423 --> 00:54:21,425
So she's not likely to kill again.
1501
00:54:23,218 --> 00:54:25,763
And I find that logic absolutely atrocious.
1502
00:54:25,846 --> 00:54:28,098
Most of us do not kill people who anger us.
1503
00:54:28,182 --> 00:54:29,224
We go kick a door
1504
00:54:29,308 --> 00:54:30,058
Scream and shout.
1505
00:54:30,142 --> 00:54:31,059
Some of us throw a punch.
1506
00:54:31,143 --> 00:54:32,703
But we don't set them up and kill them.
1507
00:54:32,728 --> 00:54:34,730
You have here a human being
1508
00:54:34,813 --> 00:54:37,441
who thinks they have
the right to kill other people
1509
00:54:37,524 --> 00:54:38,650
who anger them.
1510
00:54:40,152 --> 00:54:42,404
And you still let them out
in the general populace.
1511
00:54:42,488 --> 00:54:44,031
I find that appalling.
1512
00:54:44,114 --> 00:54:46,658
[Kurt] She was, again,
let go on $75,000 in sureties,
1513
00:54:46,742 --> 00:54:48,702
not one penny of which had to be paid
1514
00:54:48,786 --> 00:54:50,662
and with that the government of Canada
1515
00:54:50,746 --> 00:54:53,040
let a probable premeditated
first-degree murderer
1516
00:54:53,123 --> 00:54:54,458
walk the streets...
1517
00:54:54,541 --> 00:54:55,542
again.
1518
00:54:56,335 --> 00:54:57,711
And they gave you back to her.
1519
00:55:00,964 --> 00:55:03,091
And after that, things got really weird.
1520
00:55:08,514 --> 00:55:11,517
We went and and wrote another consent order
1521
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,728
and we agreed to a schedule of visits
1522
00:55:14,812 --> 00:55:16,688
with, like, three or four hours
1523
00:55:16,772 --> 00:55:18,106
three times a week,
1524
00:55:18,190 --> 00:55:19,733
and an overnight every two weeks.
1525
00:55:19,817 --> 00:55:24,488
We got them to let us have more contact...
1526
00:55:24,571 --> 00:55:26,073
with Shirley...
1527
00:55:26,156 --> 00:55:27,783
in order to-
1528
00:55:27,866 --> 00:55:29,385
-passing back and forth-
-passing back and forth-
1529
00:55:29,409 --> 00:55:30,762
Otherwise, we never could have done it.
1530
00:55:30,786 --> 00:55:31,787
[ringing]
1531
00:55:40,003 --> 00:55:41,397
Because we would always have to arrange
1532
00:55:41,421 --> 00:55:42,756
for a third party.
1533
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,384
And then that third party
would be not available
1534
00:55:45,467 --> 00:55:47,928
and that-we saw that we'd never get visits
1535
00:55:48,011 --> 00:55:49,781
with the baby because she
could always find a reason
1536
00:55:49,805 --> 00:55:51,325
that there was nobody there, you know?
1537
00:55:58,188 --> 00:56:00,899
So this evolved into...
1538
00:56:00,983 --> 00:56:03,986
us actually spending a great deal of time
1539
00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:05,195
with Shirley Turner.
1540
00:56:10,701 --> 00:56:12,119
In order to be around Zachary.
1541
00:56:17,708 --> 00:56:19,251
What kind of things did you do?
1542
00:56:19,334 --> 00:56:20,687
- Go to the mall.
- [Kate] Go to the movies,
1543
00:56:20,711 --> 00:56:22,296
swimming lessons, we took him to.
1544
00:56:25,632 --> 00:56:28,260
She came here bold as brass,
1545
00:56:28,343 --> 00:56:30,304
coming to be in our face kind of thing.
1546
00:56:33,682 --> 00:56:36,310
[Helen] I had e-enormous fears for them.
1547
00:56:36,393 --> 00:56:37,811
I had a fear that Shirley would...
1548
00:56:37,895 --> 00:56:38,896
go for them.
1549
00:56:43,525 --> 00:56:44,860
And they didn't seem to be...
1550
00:56:44,943 --> 00:56:45,861
worried for themselves.
1551
00:56:45,944 --> 00:56:47,195
In fact, they said weren't.
1552
00:56:51,909 --> 00:56:53,589
That at this point, that they didn't care.
1553
00:56:57,706 --> 00:56:59,946
[man] Can you describe what
the process was like for you?
1554
00:57:04,546 --> 00:57:06,214
-Disgusting
-Oh, disgusting.
1555
00:57:14,389 --> 00:57:16,183
But going up to the door, I mean-
1556
00:57:21,396 --> 00:57:22,522
Having to be with her.
1557
00:57:28,528 --> 00:57:29,529
It's just...
1558
00:57:30,614 --> 00:57:31,615
nauseating.
1559
00:57:46,964 --> 00:57:49,758
We religiously did not talk about the case.
1560
00:58:05,482 --> 00:58:07,752
-She tried to suck us through-
-She brought it up one time
1561
00:58:07,776 --> 00:58:09,361
And she'd talk about, um,
1562
00:58:09,444 --> 00:58:11,506
you know, "Was Andrew's hair
light when he was a baby?"
1563
00:58:11,530 --> 00:58:12,531
And we'd just shut up.
1564
00:58:22,124 --> 00:58:23,834
I thought it was like being at war.
1565
00:58:26,753 --> 00:58:28,513
Nobody wants to do
it, but you got to do it.
1566
00:58:33,301 --> 00:58:34,845
So, facing this bitch-
1567
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:42,769
It's the price we had to pay
1568
00:58:42,853 --> 00:58:44,247
to make sure we had a good connection
1569
00:58:44,271 --> 00:58:45,272
with Zachary.
1570
00:58:48,358 --> 00:58:49,609
He knew us, we knew him.
1571
00:58:51,820 --> 00:58:53,420
So that when she finally went to prison-
1572
00:58:55,699 --> 00:58:57,909
He had a smooth transition into our life.
1573
00:59:14,092 --> 00:59:15,802
I just feel awe about that.
1574
00:59:15,886 --> 00:59:17,471
I- I-I can't, uh...
1575
00:59:18,722 --> 00:59:20,265
I don't know how they did it, Kurt.
1576
00:59:20,348 --> 00:59:22,642
I don't know how they did it,
but I know why they did it.
1577
00:59:22,726 --> 00:59:24,519
[birds chirping]
1578
00:59:25,103 --> 00:59:28,690
♪ Emotional piano ♪
1579
00:59:38,116 --> 00:59:39,451
[Kurt] And finally,
1580
00:59:39,534 --> 00:59:42,079
after thousands of miles and memories,
1581
00:59:42,162 --> 00:59:44,498
on a rainy Sunday afternoon,
1582
00:59:45,123 --> 00:59:46,208
we met.
1583
00:59:46,666 --> 00:59:48,710
♪ Soft piano ♪
1584
00:59:49,294 --> 00:59:50,938
- [Kurt] Hey, little bud!
- [woman] Hi, Zachary!
1585
00:59:50,962 --> 00:59:52,464
Hello.
1586
00:59:52,547 --> 00:59:54,007
This is your uncle Kurt.
1587
00:59:54,091 --> 00:59:55,258
[woman] Aww!
1588
00:59:55,342 --> 00:59:57,052
[overlapping chatter]
1589
00:59:57,135 --> 00:59:58,053
[woman] There we go.
1590
00:59:58,136 --> 00:59:59,137
[laughs]
1591
01:00:00,972 --> 01:00:04,101
He knew your daddy from
when he was a little boy.
1592
01:00:04,935 --> 01:00:05,936
[woman] Yeah?
1593
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:07,854
[indistinct chatter]
1594
01:00:07,938 --> 01:00:09,290
[Kurt] Beth, is there anything that you
1595
01:00:09,314 --> 01:00:11,024
would like to say to Zachary?
1596
01:00:11,108 --> 01:00:11,942
Oh, wow.
1597
01:00:12,025 --> 01:00:13,443
Without tearing up here? Uh...
1598
01:00:13,527 --> 01:00:15,070
♪ soft piano ♪
1599
01:00:15,153 --> 01:00:16,696
First of all, I saw your pictures...
1600
01:00:17,697 --> 01:00:18,865
and you are a very cute kid
1601
01:00:18,949 --> 01:00:21,326
and you look exactly like Andrew.
1602
01:00:21,409 --> 01:00:24,121
Definitely the cheeky
Andrew face, definitely.
1603
01:00:24,371 --> 01:00:25,622
- Ah.
- [laughter]
1604
01:00:25,705 --> 01:00:27,749
[Clark] Zachary, you're a lucky little boy.
1605
01:00:27,833 --> 01:00:29,709
And you're an unfortunate little boy.
1606
01:00:30,418 --> 01:00:32,087
Your father, who you'll never know...
1607
01:00:33,630 --> 01:00:36,550
was such an amazing guy,
1608
01:00:36,633 --> 01:00:38,718
and he touched so many people...
1609
01:00:39,177 --> 01:00:40,887
in such a short period of time.
1610
01:00:40,971 --> 01:00:42,806
[woman] It's not just
a bunch of... stories.
1611
01:00:42,889 --> 01:00:44,224
He was a real person.
1612
01:00:44,307 --> 01:00:46,143
Quite frankly, don't
let anybody lie to you,
1613
01:00:46,226 --> 01:00:48,079
wouldn't eat anything green
until he went away to college.
1614
01:00:48,103 --> 01:00:50,689
Zachary is asleep in the other room.
1615
01:00:51,273 --> 01:00:52,941
He's spending the night.
1616
01:00:54,192 --> 01:00:55,795
[Clark]And you're an unfortunate little boy
1617
01:00:55,819 --> 01:00:58,405
because you're more than
likely to grow up without...
1618
01:00:58,488 --> 01:01:00,407
your biological father...
1619
01:01:00,490 --> 01:01:02,576
or your biological mother.
1620
01:01:03,493 --> 01:01:05,245
But with a little bit of luck...
1621
01:01:05,871 --> 01:01:08,206
you'll get to grow up
with Andrew's parents.
1622
01:01:09,291 --> 01:01:11,334
And let me tell you this:
1623
01:01:11,418 --> 01:01:13,753
they did the most amazíng job.
1624
01:01:15,130 --> 01:01:17,340
You couldn't ask for two better people.
1625
01:01:17,424 --> 01:01:19,759
[Kate] [singing]
Grandma loves you, yes she does.
1626
01:01:19,843 --> 01:01:22,470
Granddad loves you, yes he does.
1627
01:01:22,554 --> 01:01:24,764
Daddy love you, yes he does.
1628
01:01:24,848 --> 01:01:27,350
Uncle Kurt's here and he loves you too.
1629
01:01:27,434 --> 01:01:30,061
We all love you all we can.
1630
01:01:30,395 --> 01:01:32,689
Darling, darling little man.
1631
01:01:32,772 --> 01:01:33,958
[Clark] And so from that perspective,
1632
01:01:33,982 --> 01:01:35,742
you're the luckiest
little boy in the world.
1633
01:01:35,817 --> 01:01:38,069
They love you more than life itself.
1634
01:01:38,153 --> 01:01:40,113
And íf you ever need anything,
1635
01:01:40,197 --> 01:01:41,531
I'm not far away, either.
1636
01:01:41,615 --> 01:01:43,742
And know we'll be there for you
1637
01:01:43,825 --> 01:01:46,328
in every way that he can't be.
1638
01:01:46,411 --> 01:01:48,663
Zach, when you're
old enough and you watch this,
1639
01:01:48,747 --> 01:01:51,333
if you ever want to talk to me personally,
1640
01:01:51,416 --> 01:01:52,709
or you want to come and see me
1641
01:01:52,792 --> 01:01:54,878
you have an open invitation
and you should know that.
1642
01:01:54,961 --> 01:01:56,713
And you're loved and I love you and
1643
01:01:56,796 --> 01:01:58,566
I care about the person
you're going to become.
1644
01:01:58,590 --> 01:02:00,133
We love him and we do simple things
1645
01:02:00,217 --> 01:02:02,510
- like send him books.
- Happy Birthday.
1646
01:02:02,594 --> 01:02:04,930
- We can't wait to meet him.
- I hope to get the chance...
1647
01:02:05,013 --> 01:02:06,056
to meet you.
1648
01:02:06,139 --> 01:02:07,641
I hope, uh, I'm Uncle Ken to Zachary.
1649
01:02:07,724 --> 01:02:10,185
[man] If you're anything like Andrew...
1650
01:02:10,268 --> 01:02:11,144
it's going to be good.
1651
01:02:11,228 --> 01:02:12,663
I think that you'll turn out just great.
1652
01:02:12,687 --> 01:02:13,831
[man] This is student affairs.
1653
01:02:13,855 --> 01:02:14,981
Are you-are you a student?
1654
01:02:15,065 --> 01:02:16,399
Who knows? Maybe someday,
1655
01:02:16,483 --> 01:02:18,485
you'll be applying here
to the faculty of medicine.
1656
01:02:18,568 --> 01:02:19,768
[man] Does this look exciting?
1657
01:02:20,612 --> 01:02:21,905
We are going to do an interview.
1658
01:02:21,988 --> 01:02:24,157
[woman] Even though
things started tragically,
1659
01:02:24,241 --> 01:02:26,785
you know, he's the
blessing Andrew left behind.
1660
01:02:28,954 --> 01:02:30,264
[Kurt] I parked the van two blocks away
1661
01:02:30,288 --> 01:02:31,849
because it was the only vehicle for miles
1662
01:02:31,873 --> 01:02:33,392
with California plates that
would give away to Shirley
1663
01:02:33,416 --> 01:02:34,584
that I was in town.
1664
01:02:34,668 --> 01:02:36,795
- Sort of a stealth van.
- [Kurt] Exactly.
1665
01:02:36,878 --> 01:02:38,689
[Kurt] If she knew,
I was afraid she would find excuses
1666
01:02:38,713 --> 01:02:40,066
to withhold you so that I couldn't see you.
1667
01:02:40,090 --> 01:02:40,882
[doorbell rings]
1668
01:02:40,966 --> 01:02:41,800
Every time the doorbell rang,
1669
01:02:41,883 --> 01:02:42,634
I hid in the back bedroom
1670
01:02:42,717 --> 01:02:43,635
as it could have been her
1671
01:02:43,718 --> 01:02:45,095
just dropping by unannounced.
1672
01:02:45,178 --> 01:02:46,906
[over phone] Hi, Dave. Hi, Kate.
This is Shirley.
1673
01:02:46,930 --> 01:02:47,990
[Kurt] On the days we didn’t have you
1674
01:02:48,014 --> 01:02:49,742
I discovered your dad's
medical school world,
1675
01:02:49,766 --> 01:02:51,226
met his classmates,
1676
01:02:51,309 --> 01:02:52,894
found more footage of him for you...
1677
01:02:54,062 --> 01:02:55,397
And finally,
1678
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:57,482
I found myself face-to-face
1679
01:02:57,565 --> 01:02:59,252
with the thing that had
set me on this journey
1680
01:02:59,276 --> 01:03:00,193
in the first place.
1681
01:03:00,277 --> 01:03:01,462
One of the major things that Andrew and I
1682
01:03:01,486 --> 01:03:02,862
did together, though, uh,
1683
01:03:02,946 --> 01:03:05,490
or that we had in common was, uh,
1684
01:03:05,573 --> 01:03:06,700
photography.
1685
01:03:06,783 --> 01:03:09,077
Sometimes, we'd bring the cameras out
1686
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,871
and go around the lake
and around the pond
1687
01:03:11,955 --> 01:03:13,581
and take some pictures around there.
1688
01:03:13,665 --> 01:03:15,559
I told Andrew, I'd say,
"Listen, you're gonna have to, like,"
1689
01:03:15,583 --> 01:03:17,294
show me a few tricks or whatever
1690
01:03:17,377 --> 01:03:18,771
"and show me some of
your pictures" and then-
1691
01:03:18,795 --> 01:03:21,131
I'd still love to see some
of the pictures that he took
1692
01:03:21,214 --> 01:03:22,608
through medical school and I've never seen
1693
01:03:22,632 --> 01:03:23,633
any of them.
1694
01:03:23,758 --> 01:03:26,011
♪ Gentle piano ♪
1695
01:03:44,571 --> 01:03:45,756
[Anthony] Him and his
dad had done quite a bit
1696
01:03:45,780 --> 01:03:47,324
of photography together, and, uh,
1697
01:03:47,407 --> 01:03:49,200
right after this happened,
1698
01:03:49,284 --> 01:03:51,494
fired out an email saying
we should try to think of some
1699
01:03:51,578 --> 01:03:53,705
sort of memorial award.
1700
01:03:53,788 --> 01:03:55,558
And I felt like that would
be something also that
1701
01:03:55,582 --> 01:03:58,293
his dad would really feel honored by
1702
01:03:58,376 --> 01:04:00,879
and then have a wall in the medical school
1703
01:04:00,962 --> 01:04:02,762
to be able to say, you
know, year after year,
1704
01:04:02,797 --> 01:04:03,983
"you know, "These are the winners
1705
01:04:04,007 --> 01:04:05,651
and people could sit
there and look and be like,
1706
01:04:05,675 --> 01:04:06,736
"Wow, " you know, "look at this."
1707
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:08,428
I think I have a meeting tomorrow morning
1708
01:04:08,511 --> 01:04:10,311
to, uh, participate in
the judging tomorrow.
1709
01:04:10,847 --> 01:04:12,557
I find it interesting that you say that
1710
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:14,392
you hadn't heard that.
1711
01:04:14,476 --> 01:04:16,519
I wonder if part of it was eventually maybe
1712
01:04:16,603 --> 01:04:18,188
have his dad independently say,
1713
01:04:18,271 --> 01:04:19,731
"Oh, who took this picture?
1714
01:04:19,814 --> 01:04:21,149
It's a really nice picture."
1715
01:04:21,232 --> 01:04:22,734
And have him say, "Oh, me."
1716
01:04:22,817 --> 01:04:23,818
I don't know.
1717
01:04:24,235 --> 01:04:25,403
But ít's something he did.
1718
01:04:25,487 --> 01:04:26,488
[camera bulb flash]
1719
01:04:27,197 --> 01:04:29,157
[Kurt] On July 18, 2003,
1720
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:30,241
you turned one.
1721
01:04:34,412 --> 01:04:36,182
[Kurt] Shirley decided to
hold a birthday party for you
1722
01:04:36,206 --> 01:04:37,248
at McDonald's.
1723
01:04:37,332 --> 01:04:39,417
[Kate] She started to open presents.
1724
01:04:39,501 --> 01:04:40,603
Well, he wasn't interested in presents.
1725
01:04:40,627 --> 01:04:42,337
He wanted to get down.
1726
01:04:42,420 --> 01:04:44,464
So when he got down,
1727
01:04:44,547 --> 01:04:45,840
he made for me.
1728
01:04:46,508 --> 01:04:48,593
Shirley was very, very angry.
1729
01:04:48,676 --> 01:04:50,387
So she said,
1730
01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:51,388
"He loves you more than me.
1731
01:04:51,471 --> 01:04:52,555
Why don't you take him?"
1732
01:05:03,191 --> 01:05:04,734
Zachary always...
1733
01:05:05,276 --> 01:05:06,778
from the time he could choose...
1734
01:05:07,695 --> 01:05:08,988
would choose Kate over her.
1735
01:05:09,072 --> 01:05:10,532
[woman] That was obvious and...
1736
01:05:11,116 --> 01:05:12,367
other people talked about it.
1737
01:05:12,450 --> 01:05:13,993
[David] Kate is a
1738
01:05:14,077 --> 01:05:15,870
warm and loving mother.
1739
01:05:16,162 --> 01:05:18,206
She was a phony mother.
1740
01:05:18,289 --> 01:05:19,332
[Shirley] I love you.
1741
01:05:19,707 --> 01:05:20,875
Mommy loves you.
1742
01:05:20,959 --> 01:05:21,793
Yes, I do.
1743
01:05:21,876 --> 01:05:23,002
She knew the motions,
1744
01:05:23,086 --> 01:05:24,246
but there's no warmth in her.
1745
01:05:24,295 --> 01:05:26,005
[Shirley] Zachary, love you baby.
1746
01:05:26,089 --> 01:05:27,382
Mommy loves you.
1747
01:05:27,465 --> 01:05:28,258
Mommy loves you.
1748
01:05:28,341 --> 01:05:29,175
She said that she had kids
1749
01:05:29,259 --> 01:05:31,195
and that she wasn't interested
in living with them either.
1750
01:05:31,219 --> 01:05:32,655
Andrew said she kind
of went off to medical school
1751
01:05:32,679 --> 01:05:33,697
- and left them.
- [woman] And she said
1752
01:05:33,721 --> 01:05:35,223
that they lived with their fathers
1753
01:05:35,306 --> 01:05:36,700
and she said that children were more
1754
01:05:36,724 --> 01:05:38,059
trouble than they were worth.
1755
01:05:38,143 --> 01:05:40,063
[Vero] I believe she's using
her own children now
1756
01:05:40,103 --> 01:05:42,021
to manipulate the system
1757
01:05:42,105 --> 01:05:44,524
and to make Kate and David suffer.
1758
01:05:44,607 --> 01:05:45,942
Even if she goes to jail.
1759
01:05:46,192 --> 01:05:47,832
Fortunately, there are enough people here
1760
01:05:47,902 --> 01:05:50,071
who are in the, uh, in the system,
1761
01:05:50,155 --> 01:05:52,699
the justice system, the
child protection system...
1762
01:05:52,782 --> 01:05:54,701
that I know personally who...
1763
01:05:55,034 --> 01:05:56,453
have told me
1764
01:05:56,536 --> 01:05:57,787
that that will not happen.
1765
01:05:58,204 --> 01:05:59,765
[Kurt] The next hearing
in the extradition process
1766
01:05:59,789 --> 01:06:01,499
was set for September 25th,
1767
01:06:01,583 --> 01:06:03,376
your dad's 30th birthday,
1768
01:06:03,460 --> 01:06:04,979
where she would likely be re-incarcerated
1769
01:06:05,003 --> 01:06:07,172
and at last, returned
to the U. S. for trial.
1770
01:06:07,881 --> 01:06:08,756
But for now,
1771
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:10,633
it was time for me to go home.
1772
01:06:10,717 --> 01:06:12,010
I have to say bye-by now?
1773
01:06:12,093 --> 01:06:12,969
Gonna say bye-bye?
1774
01:06:13,052 --> 01:06:14,387
Bye-bye to your Uncle Kurt.
1775
01:06:14,471 --> 01:06:15,680
Can you give him a hug?
1776
01:06:15,763 --> 01:06:16,848
Can I have a hug?
1777
01:06:16,931 --> 01:06:17,950
[David] Grab him and take it.
1778
01:06:17,974 --> 01:06:19,601
[blows raspberries]
1779
01:06:20,977 --> 01:06:21,978
Was that funny?
1780
01:06:22,061 --> 01:06:22,812
Was that funny?
1781
01:06:22,896 --> 01:06:23,980
Bye-bye, sweet pea.
1782
01:06:24,063 --> 01:06:24,981
Bye-bye, sweet pea.
1783
01:06:25,064 --> 01:06:26,566
I'll see you later, buddy.
1784
01:06:26,649 --> 01:06:28,489
You'll be a little bigger
next time I see you.
1785
01:06:28,568 --> 01:06:29,753
[Danette] He had just completed
1786
01:06:29,777 --> 01:06:31,779
the child health checks that they do.
1787
01:06:31,863 --> 01:06:33,531
He's head of his time, he's doing great.
1788
01:06:33,615 --> 01:06:34,991
He's up to par on everything,
1789
01:06:35,074 --> 01:06:37,368
but, err, he doesn't like to wave goodbye.
1790
01:06:37,452 --> 01:06:38,452
[Kurt] Bye-bye.
1791
01:06:38,661 --> 01:06:39,412
Bye-bye.
1792
01:06:39,496 --> 01:06:40,413
Bye-bye-bye, bye-bye-
1793
01:06:40,497 --> 01:06:41,331
[Danette] One of them said,
1794
01:06:41,414 --> 01:06:42,790
"That's fine because, you know,
1795
01:06:42,874 --> 01:06:44,351
he's got lots of time to I earn that."
1796
01:06:44,375 --> 01:06:45,811
[Kurt] Is there anything
you'd like to say to Zachary?
1797
01:06:45,835 --> 01:06:46,854
[man] I'm hoping that I'm gong to have
1798
01:06:46,878 --> 01:06:49,255
all the opportunity
to say those things to Zachary.
1799
01:06:53,176 --> 01:06:55,720
[Kate] We had been out, we came back here,
1800
01:06:55,803 --> 01:06:57,889
there was a little card in the door
1801
01:06:57,972 --> 01:06:59,933
from Constable Walsh
1802
01:07:00,016 --> 01:07:01,976
saying that would we contact him.
1803
01:07:02,060 --> 01:07:02,810
I was here.
1804
01:07:02,894 --> 01:07:03,645
Mark and I were here.
1805
01:07:03,728 --> 01:07:04,562
I was at my house.
1806
01:07:04,646 --> 01:07:05,396
I was home
1807
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:08,024
watching the six o'clock NTV News
1808
01:07:08,107 --> 01:07:08,858
and...
1809
01:07:08,942 --> 01:07:10,222
the next thing, I saw a picture
1810
01:07:10,276 --> 01:07:11,277
of Shirley and Zachary
1811
01:07:11,361 --> 01:07:12,445
and saying that-
1812
01:07:13,071 --> 01:07:13,863
They were missing
1813
01:07:13,947 --> 01:07:15,448
and I was just screaming
1814
01:07:15,532 --> 01:07:16,616
at the top of my lungs.
1815
01:07:16,699 --> 01:07:18,368
And I immediately fell to the floor.
1816
01:07:18,451 --> 01:07:20,620
I immediately went over to their apartment.
1817
01:07:20,703 --> 01:07:21,579
- And we came here.
- So we just left
1818
01:07:21,663 --> 01:07:22,848
and got in the car and went over there.
1819
01:07:22,872 --> 01:07:24,225
[Kate] Our vicar came
by because he'd heard-
1820
01:07:24,249 --> 01:07:25,434
I'll never forget that moment.
1821
01:07:25,458 --> 01:07:26,376
They're gonna find them,
they're gonna be okay.
1822
01:07:26,459 --> 01:07:27,377
You're overreacting.
1823
01:07:27,460 --> 01:07:28,378
You're gonna think the worst.
1824
01:07:28,461 --> 01:07:29,813
You know, she's probably gone for a-
1825
01:07:29,837 --> 01:07:31,548
My first thought was that she had left.
1826
01:07:31,631 --> 01:07:32,840
She had taken him and run.
1827
01:07:32,924 --> 01:07:33,758
[Jackie] She wouldn't do that.
1828
01:07:33,841 --> 01:07:34,717
She couldn't possibly do that.
1829
01:07:34,801 --> 01:07:36,111
There was about two or three hours of
1830
01:07:36,135 --> 01:07:37,135
uncertainty or-
1831
01:07:37,178 --> 01:07:38,763
Emotion was overwhelming.
1832
01:07:43,101 --> 01:07:43,851
They called us and told us
1833
01:07:43,935 --> 01:07:45,287
that they were doing a search of the beach
1834
01:07:45,311 --> 01:07:46,604
out in Conception Bay South.
1835
01:07:46,688 --> 01:07:47,998
I thought, "They doing that for a reason ."
1836
01:07:48,022 --> 01:07:49,302
[Danette] I had received a call.
1837
01:07:49,357 --> 01:07:50,877
They were having a press conference on
1838
01:07:50,942 --> 01:07:51,859
the Turner case.
1839
01:07:51,943 --> 01:07:52,777
I went to Father Chris.
1840
01:07:52,860 --> 01:07:53,736
I just whispered to him,
1841
01:07:53,820 --> 01:07:54,904
"I think you better stay,"
1842
01:07:55,196 --> 01:07:56,632
because I think I'm
gonna be coming back here
1843
01:07:56,656 --> 01:07:57,740
"with some really bad news."
1844
01:07:57,824 --> 01:07:59,742
He told me that they had found a baby.
1845
01:08:01,619 --> 01:08:02,620
Along with an adult.
1846
01:08:02,704 --> 01:08:04,098
I knew then that it was two bodies.
1847
01:08:04,122 --> 01:08:05,766
They were working to
identify the bodies and-
1848
01:08:05,790 --> 01:08:07,458
[unintelligible]
[doorbell rings]
1849
01:08:07,542 --> 01:08:08,918
[Kate] We came to the door
1850
01:08:09,002 --> 01:08:10,920
and it was Jackie and Constable Walsh.
1851
01:08:11,004 --> 01:08:12,204
And I was saying, "Oh my gosh,
1852
01:08:12,255 --> 01:08:14,299
somebody's with them
now trying to tell them ."
1853
01:08:14,382 --> 01:08:15,717
They went in and I told them.
1854
01:08:17,510 --> 01:08:18,510
And...
1855
01:08:18,553 --> 01:08:19,637
what I saw after that,
1856
01:08:19,721 --> 01:08:21,347
I will never forget in my life.
1857
01:08:26,102 --> 01:08:28,062
[screaming]
1858
01:08:28,730 --> 01:08:30,732
[David] Great absolute vicious rage.
1859
01:08:30,815 --> 01:08:32,293
Someone has done that to someone you love.
1860
01:08:32,317 --> 01:08:33,877
If the person who did this had been here,
1861
01:08:33,901 --> 01:08:34,902
I'd kill them.
1862
01:08:37,113 --> 01:08:38,382
Period, no questions, kill them.
1863
01:08:38,406 --> 01:08:39,466
Strangle that fucking bitch
1864
01:08:39,490 --> 01:08:40,491
right here, right now,
1865
01:08:40,575 --> 01:08:41,815
period, no question, kill them.
1866
01:08:41,951 --> 01:08:43,703
[disorienting noises]
1867
01:08:50,627 --> 01:08:52,545
[Kate] And then,
we went to have to identify him
1868
01:08:52,629 --> 01:08:54,088
and we couldn't touch him...
1869
01:08:54,839 --> 01:08:56,924
because they said he was forensic.
1870
01:08:57,008 --> 01:08:59,302
[David] He hadn't been
through the autopsy yet.
1871
01:08:59,385 --> 01:09:01,721
There was this table and...
1872
01:09:01,804 --> 01:09:03,931
saw the white sheets up all around him but
1873
01:09:04,015 --> 01:09:05,391
with a white sheet over a body,
1874
01:09:05,475 --> 01:09:06,392
you could see over sheets.
1875
01:09:06,476 --> 01:09:07,644
Clearly, it was his-
1876
01:09:07,727 --> 01:09:08,519
it was him.
1877
01:09:08,603 --> 01:09:09,854
It's really him.
1878
01:09:12,357 --> 01:09:13,441
[soft crying]
1879
01:09:13,524 --> 01:09:15,610
And then Kate's legs quit.
1880
01:09:15,693 --> 01:09:17,171
She just went straight to the floor and-
1881
01:09:17,195 --> 01:09:18,446
David was...
1882
01:09:18,529 --> 01:09:20,239
lying on top of Kate on the floor
1883
01:09:20,323 --> 01:09:21,425
and we managed to get him out.
1884
01:09:21,449 --> 01:09:22,909
I don't know how we did it, Kurt.
1885
01:09:23,618 --> 01:09:25,328
I don't know how I got out myself.
1886
01:09:27,121 --> 01:09:28,289
Their poor little baby.
1887
01:09:29,457 --> 01:09:31,417
The summary of the evidence
1888
01:09:31,501 --> 01:09:33,211
against Shirley Turner.
1889
01:09:33,294 --> 01:09:34,128
[Kurt] Part two.
1890
01:09:34,212 --> 01:09:35,588
In July of 2003,
1891
01:09:35,672 --> 01:09:36,923
Shirley met a man at a bar
1892
01:09:37,006 --> 01:09:38,341
in downtown St. John 's.
1893
01:09:38,424 --> 01:09:39,175
They went out twice
1894
01:09:39,258 --> 01:09:41,028
until his friends showed
him articles on the web
1895
01:09:41,052 --> 01:09:43,137
saying she was accused
of killing her last boyfriend.
1896
01:09:43,221 --> 01:09:45,098
He told her he didn’t
want to see her anymore.
1897
01:09:45,431 --> 01:09:47,725
She then called and left over
200 messages on his phone
1898
01:09:47,809 --> 01:09:49,370
including one saying that she was pregnant
1899
01:09:49,394 --> 01:09:50,770
and that he needed to-
1900
01:09:50,853 --> 01:09:52,706
[David] Step up to the plate
and be a fucking man.
1901
01:09:52,730 --> 01:09:54,565
[Kurt] She wasn't, as her autopsy showed.
1902
01:09:54,649 --> 01:09:55,817
The night she killed you,
1903
01:09:55,900 --> 01:09:57,252
she made a phony phone
call from her apartment
1904
01:09:57,276 --> 01:09:58,504
to a friend’s answering machine
1905
01:09:58,528 --> 01:10:00,655
claiming to be at this
man's house with you.
1906
01:10:00,738 --> 01:10:03,533
She took your brother
TJ's car at about 11:38 that night
1907
01:10:03,616 --> 01:10:05,034
and drove to the man's house.
1908
01:10:05,284 --> 01:10:07,596
She got lost along the way
and asked a woman for directions
1909
01:10:07,620 --> 01:10:09,706
along this road around 12:45 AM.
1910
01:10:09,789 --> 01:10:11,040
She parked behind his house,
1911
01:10:11,124 --> 01:10:12,810
left a used tampon
and photos of the two of you
1912
01:10:12,834 --> 01:10:14,585
on his property, completing her attempt
1913
01:10:14,669 --> 01:10:16,838
to frame this man
for what she was about to do,
1914
01:10:16,921 --> 01:10:18,965
then took you down
to the ocean behind his home.
1915
01:10:19,048 --> 01:10:21,193
A night watchman the area
thought he heard a baby crying
1916
01:10:21,217 --> 01:10:23,010
in the distance around 2:30 AM.
1917
01:10:23,094 --> 01:10:24,971
Shirley took her prescription for Ativan
1918
01:10:25,054 --> 01:10:27,140
prescribed to her
by psychiatrist Jean Do us set,
1919
01:10:27,223 --> 01:10:29,767
mixed it into your formula,
then took some herself.
1920
01:10:29,851 --> 01:10:31,203
The only good thing we know about this
1921
01:10:31,227 --> 01:10:32,413
is that you were not conscious
1922
01:10:32,437 --> 01:10:33,479
and you did not suffer.
1923
01:10:33,563 --> 01:10:34,564
She then-
1924
01:10:34,856 --> 01:10:36,291
she then walked to the edge of a pier
1925
01:10:36,315 --> 01:10:38,252
and with you strapped
to her stomach with a sweater,
1926
01:10:38,276 --> 01:10:39,777
she jumped into the Atlantic Ocean.
1927
01:10:39,861 --> 01:10:41,654
[splash]
1928
01:10:42,447 --> 01:10:43,573
[Shirley] Mommy loves you.
1929
01:10:44,574 --> 01:10:45,491
Yes, I do.
1930
01:10:45,575 --> 01:10:46,701
Mommy loves you.
1931
01:10:46,784 --> 01:10:47,994
Did you have a nice nap?
1932
01:10:48,411 --> 01:10:49,537
What did you dream about?
1933
01:10:49,620 --> 01:10:51,330
Mommy loves you.
1934
01:10:51,414 --> 01:10:52,957
Mommy misses you.
1935
01:10:58,713 --> 01:11:00,381
[Kate] He was found face upwards
1936
01:11:00,465 --> 01:11:02,592
with his eyes wide open
1937
01:11:02,675 --> 01:11:05,094
and the policeman who found him
1938
01:11:05,178 --> 01:11:06,637
said that, um,
1939
01:11:06,721 --> 01:11:07,865
he had wrapped him in a blanket
1940
01:11:07,889 --> 01:11:10,266
rather than a plastic bag and, uh,
1941
01:11:10,349 --> 01:11:12,059
he and another officer
1942
01:11:12,143 --> 01:11:13,853
carried him gently back
1943
01:11:13,936 --> 01:11:16,189
and he made very sure that he kept the body
1944
01:11:16,272 --> 01:11:17,982
very far away from the wicked woman
1945
01:11:18,065 --> 01:11:19,317
who had murdered him.
1946
01:11:25,698 --> 01:11:27,200
When we came here,
1947
01:11:27,283 --> 01:11:29,619
David and I realized
what Shirley Turner was.
1948
01:11:29,702 --> 01:11:31,621
She was the devil.
1949
01:11:31,704 --> 01:11:34,081
But people think that you're some kind of
1950
01:11:34,165 --> 01:11:35,666
basic religious nut
1951
01:11:35,750 --> 01:11:37,001
if you believe in the devil.
1952
01:11:37,084 --> 01:11:38,228
[woman] I haven't
prayed since Zachary died.
1953
01:11:38,252 --> 01:11:39,504
I haven't-
1954
01:11:39,587 --> 01:11:40,898
I have some issues
that I have to deal with, I-
1955
01:11:40,922 --> 01:11:43,132
You know,
my faith has been tested by this.
1956
01:11:45,301 --> 01:11:46,719
[woman] It was a beautiful service.
1957
01:11:47,678 --> 01:11:49,472
A real tribute to the little boy.
1958
01:11:49,555 --> 01:11:50,908
Oh, I don't know how many people were here.
1959
01:11:50,932 --> 01:11:52,934
Probably three or 400 people, maybe more.
1960
01:11:53,017 --> 01:11:53,810
I don't-I don't recall.
1961
01:11:53,893 --> 01:11:55,478
I've never seen a coffin...
1962
01:11:55,853 --> 01:11:57,188
so small before.
1963
01:12:00,691 --> 01:12:02,652
They shouldn't have them that size.
1964
01:12:04,612 --> 01:12:06,155
He was in his little suit,
1965
01:12:06,239 --> 01:12:08,407
[unintelligible]
1966
01:12:09,033 --> 01:12:09,909
[Kurt] What went in it?
1967
01:12:09,992 --> 01:12:11,869
[Heather] What went in it?
His little ball...
1968
01:12:11,953 --> 01:12:13,704
and...
1969
01:12:13,788 --> 01:12:15,623
I don't remember if she put a truck in.
1970
01:12:16,290 --> 01:12:19,627
Lots of kisses and hugs
and tears went in it.
1971
01:12:25,466 --> 01:12:26,843
Lot's of hopes and dreams.
1972
01:12:32,807 --> 01:12:34,847
[Kurt] Your grandma and
grandpa went back to England
1973
01:12:34,892 --> 01:12:36,644
and spread your ashes with your dad's.
1974
01:12:37,186 --> 01:12:38,938
They went back to St. Louis
1975
01:12:39,021 --> 01:12:40,898
and spread your ashes with your dad's.
1976
01:12:40,982 --> 01:12:42,650
[Kate] [crying] I didn’t go with him.
1977
01:12:43,484 --> 01:12:44,962
[Kurt] Andrew wanted to be great cremated.
1978
01:12:44,986 --> 01:12:45,987
Oh, yes.
1979
01:12:46,070 --> 01:12:47,572
-Yes, it-
-What bothers Kate is
1980
01:12:47,655 --> 01:12:49,115
that she did not go with him
1981
01:12:49,198 --> 01:12:50,074
to the crematorium
1982
01:12:50,157 --> 01:12:51,868
and stay with him right to the end.
1983
01:12:51,951 --> 01:12:53,286
He went from the funeral home
1984
01:12:53,369 --> 01:12:55,454
to the crematorium all alone...
1985
01:12:55,538 --> 01:12:57,623
in plastic bags.
1986
01:12:59,792 --> 01:13:02,879
[crying]
With only his head sticking out.
1987
01:13:04,630 --> 01:13:05,798
Come on, Kate.
1988
01:13:08,885 --> 01:13:10,803
He wouldn't care about that.
1989
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:14,015
[cries]
1990
01:13:15,266 --> 01:13:16,642
That's why we went right up
1991
01:13:16,726 --> 01:13:19,312
to the oven doors with Zachary.
1992
01:13:25,067 --> 01:13:26,485
[cries]
1993
01:13:28,487 --> 01:13:30,990
This is what that
fucking bitch didn't know.
1994
01:13:32,033 --> 01:13:33,159
Or maybe she did know
1995
01:13:33,242 --> 01:13:34,493
this is what she's leaving.
1996
01:13:39,832 --> 01:13:41,208
Maybe she did know.
1997
01:13:42,418 --> 01:13:43,645
If she thought about it at all,
1998
01:13:43,669 --> 01:13:45,421
she didn't give a good goddamn.
1999
01:13:48,466 --> 01:13:50,176
And this is what I hate her for.
2000
01:13:52,470 --> 01:13:54,055
I hate her for a lot of things.
2001
01:13:54,639 --> 01:13:55,999
Stealing the rest of Andrew's life
2002
01:13:56,057 --> 01:13:57,600
and virtually all of Zachary's life
2003
01:13:57,683 --> 01:13:58,851
and then this.
2004
01:14:00,227 --> 01:14:01,604
Leaving us like this.
2005
01:14:04,315 --> 01:14:06,901
A couple of times,
lying in there in bed at night...
2006
01:14:07,318 --> 01:14:08,945
I considered...
2007
01:14:09,570 --> 01:14:11,739
fixing the problem myself.
2008
01:14:11,822 --> 01:14:14,033
Pick a night when
Kate took a sleeping pill,
2009
01:14:14,116 --> 01:14:15,785
so she wouldn't know I was up.
2010
01:14:17,703 --> 01:14:18,889
Get up in the middle of the night
2011
01:14:18,913 --> 01:14:20,831
dream up a pretext, go kill Shirley,
2012
01:14:20,915 --> 01:14:22,416
and come back and go back to bed.
2013
01:14:22,500 --> 01:14:23,668
So Kate would not know.
2014
01:14:24,502 --> 01:14:26,045
That way...
2015
01:14:26,128 --> 01:14:27,880
number one, she could not harm Zachary
2016
01:14:28,923 --> 01:14:30,466
And number two,
2017
01:14:30,549 --> 01:14:32,093
even if they did catch me at it
2018
01:14:32,176 --> 01:14:34,457
I'm-I'm the first one they'd come
looking for, of course.
2019
01:14:34,512 --> 01:14:36,013
But Kate could truthfully say
2020
01:14:36,097 --> 01:14:37,324
she didn't know that I was doing it.
2021
01:14:37,348 --> 01:14:39,141
So she might still get to...
2022
01:14:39,934 --> 01:14:41,519
bring up Zachary, get him started
2023
01:14:41,602 --> 01:14:43,688
even if I go to-go to prison in Canada.
2024
01:14:43,771 --> 01:14:45,331
We've worked through the possibilities.
2025
01:14:46,190 --> 01:14:47,190
Ad nauseam.
2026
01:14:47,233 --> 01:14:49,110
Suppose we grab Zachary and run.
2027
01:14:49,193 --> 01:14:50,712
Number one, we got to get off the island
2028
01:14:50,736 --> 01:14:51,862
and into the land.
2029
01:14:51,946 --> 01:14:53,548
The big, uh, drawback against living here
2030
01:14:53,572 --> 01:14:54,782
is getting out of here.
2031
01:14:54,865 --> 01:14:56,426
[David] There's only three ways to do that:
2032
01:14:56,450 --> 01:14:58,077
ferry, boat, airplane.
2033
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:00,454
The airplane and the ferry would be covered
2034
01:15:00,538 --> 01:15:02,164
as soon as Zachary's missing.
2035
01:15:02,248 --> 01:15:04,583
We'd have to hire a boat somehow
2036
01:15:04,667 --> 01:15:05,852
which means you take in a third party
2037
01:15:05,876 --> 01:15:07,503
to the crime of kidnapping.
2038
01:15:07,586 --> 01:15:08,504
We can't go home.
2039
01:15:08,587 --> 01:15:11,215
We cannot ever identify ourselves
2040
01:15:11,298 --> 01:15:12,341
as ourselves.
2041
01:15:12,425 --> 01:15:15,344
Have cash only stashed
all around the country.
2042
01:15:15,428 --> 01:15:18,180
Zachary would never be
allowed to know his family,
2043
01:15:18,264 --> 01:15:19,181
our friends.
2044
01:15:19,265 --> 01:15:21,267
So, that path...
2045
01:15:22,018 --> 01:15:24,603
Big, big, big, big risk
with a-with a horrible life.
2046
01:15:24,687 --> 01:15:25,688
So that's out.
2047
01:15:25,771 --> 01:15:27,481
Legal approaches we might have taken:
2048
01:15:27,565 --> 01:15:28,566
invent something,
2049
01:15:28,649 --> 01:15:30,317
file affidavits, saying, you know,
2050
01:15:30,401 --> 01:15:32,028
Shirley slipped one night
2051
01:15:32,111 --> 01:15:35,031
and we were around
and said a threat of some kind
2052
01:15:35,114 --> 01:15:37,116
that might get her incarcerated.
2053
01:15:37,199 --> 01:15:39,118
But that would just be
our word against hers.
2054
01:15:39,201 --> 01:15:41,787
The best shot we had
2055
01:15:41,871 --> 01:15:43,748
at keeping Zachary alive
2056
01:15:43,831 --> 01:15:46,292
was I kill her myself.
2057
01:15:46,375 --> 01:15:47,501
Other than doing that,
2058
01:15:47,585 --> 01:15:49,795
I can think of no other way...
2059
01:15:50,921 --> 01:15:52,673
to save Zachary from that bitch.
2060
01:15:54,216 --> 01:15:55,301
[sighs]
2061
01:15:56,135 --> 01:15:57,344
[laughs]
2062
01:15:59,597 --> 01:16:01,557
There's a logic in it.
[laughs]
2063
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:03,100
But I didn't do it.
2064
01:16:03,517 --> 01:16:05,603
Because I trusted government to do its job.
2065
01:16:05,686 --> 01:16:07,229
Government is supposed to stop that,
2066
01:16:07,313 --> 01:16:09,065
so I don't have to do it personally.
2067
01:16:09,148 --> 01:16:10,834
In this case, they didn't even
get her off the street
2068
01:16:10,858 --> 01:16:12,461
and they even gave her
a baby to look after.
2069
01:16:12,485 --> 01:16:15,446
My understanding is that the
proper protocols were followed.
2070
01:16:15,529 --> 01:16:17,406
I have asked my officials to, uh-
2071
01:16:17,490 --> 01:16:19,408
did ask him some time ago to...
2072
01:16:19,492 --> 01:16:20,844
follow up with the-with the board
2073
01:16:20,868 --> 01:16:22,411
to see, in fact, that, uh,
2074
01:16:22,495 --> 01:16:24,997
everything, uh, all the proper
protocols had been adhered to.
2075
01:16:25,081 --> 01:16:27,208
They were gambling Zachary's life,
2076
01:16:27,291 --> 01:16:28,793
they were gambling with the lives of
2077
01:16:28,876 --> 01:16:30,628
anyone in the general population
2078
01:16:30,711 --> 01:16:32,213
that Shirley came in contact with.
2079
01:16:32,296 --> 01:16:35,257
We the-the vast majority of good people
2080
01:16:35,341 --> 01:16:36,675
who don't kill people...
2081
01:16:36,759 --> 01:16:37,635
are stuck.
2082
01:16:37,718 --> 01:16:38,719
We got nowhere to go.
2083
01:16:38,803 --> 01:16:40,429
We figured we'd hold a press conference
2084
01:16:40,513 --> 01:16:42,389
and try to push for...
2085
01:16:42,473 --> 01:16:43,307
changes in law.
2086
01:16:43,390 --> 01:16:44,767
So the morning that we had
2087
01:16:44,850 --> 01:16:46,036
scheduled the press conference,
2088
01:16:46,060 --> 01:16:48,604
I was in the shower
and Kate came in with the phone.
2089
01:16:48,687 --> 01:16:49,605
It's Jackie.
2090
01:16:49,688 --> 01:16:51,774
She says, "We can't
hold a press conference.
2091
01:16:51,857 --> 01:16:53,651
Technically, there is still a press...
2092
01:16:53,734 --> 01:16:55,402
ban in place."
2093
01:16:55,486 --> 01:16:56,779
I said, "Fuck 'em fuck 'em ."
2094
01:16:56,862 --> 01:16:59,198
If they're willing to
lock me up for talking
2095
01:16:59,281 --> 01:17:00,991
while they let murderers walk around free,
2096
01:17:01,075 --> 01:17:02,243
"just fuck 'em ."
2097
01:17:02,326 --> 01:17:04,870
We believe that Shirley Turner
bears 100 percent
2098
01:17:04,954 --> 01:17:06,580
of the responsibility
2099
01:17:06,664 --> 01:17:08,290
for the murder of our son, Andrew.
2100
01:17:08,374 --> 01:17:10,292
We believe that the legal system
2101
01:17:10,376 --> 01:17:12,670
helped her to kill our grandson, Zachary,
2102
01:17:12,753 --> 01:17:14,964
When Shirley Turner was formally charged
2103
01:17:15,047 --> 01:17:16,507
and escaped to Canada.
2104
01:17:16,590 --> 01:17:19,051
We naively thought she would
be sent back to Pennsylvania
2105
01:17:19,135 --> 01:17:20,928
within a few weeks at the most.
2106
01:17:21,011 --> 01:17:23,055
When we learned that she was out on bail
2107
01:17:23,139 --> 01:17:25,099
under an order from Justice David Russell,
2108
01:17:25,182 --> 01:17:26,809
we were numb!
2109
01:17:26,892 --> 01:17:27,726
Numb!
2110
01:17:27,810 --> 01:17:29,788
[over phone] Good afternoon,
Judge Russell's office.
2111
01:17:29,812 --> 01:17:30,997
[Kurt] I'm a, uh, documentary filmmaker.
2112
01:17:31,021 --> 01:17:31,897
And I'm doing a, uh, documentary
2113
01:17:31,981 --> 01:17:33,858
about the Zachary Turner
case and was curious-
2114
01:17:33,941 --> 01:17:35,544
[over phone] I think all he
might have done one time
2115
01:17:35,568 --> 01:17:36,861
was probably a bail review.
2116
01:17:36,944 --> 01:17:38,130
Is that what you're calling about?
2117
01:17:38,154 --> 01:17:40,074
Yeah, It was December 12, 2001 actually, yeah.
2118
01:17:40,156 --> 01:17:40,990
[over phone] Oh, okay.
2119
01:17:41,073 --> 01:17:42,074
Judge Russell was sorry,
2120
01:17:42,158 --> 01:17:43,678
but he won't be able to be interviewed
2121
01:17:43,742 --> 01:17:45,119
in connection with that matter.
2122
01:17:45,202 --> 01:17:46,429
[Kurt] Crown prosecutor Mike Madden
2123
01:17:46,453 --> 01:17:47,764
didn’t even argue against her release
2124
01:17:47,788 --> 01:17:49,290
on bail that day and instead
2125
01:17:49,373 --> 01:17:50,559
entered the courtroom with an agreement
2126
01:17:50,583 --> 01:17:51,768
already in place for her release.
2127
01:17:51,792 --> 01:17:52,960
[Mike] Mike Madden speaking.
2128
01:17:53,043 --> 01:17:54,229
[Kurt] I'm a, um, documentary filmmaker
2129
01:17:54,253 --> 01:17:55,880
who was, uh, a friend of Andrew Bagby.
2130
01:17:55,963 --> 01:17:58,132
- [Mike] Yes.
- Wondering if you would
2131
01:17:58,215 --> 01:18:00,009
be, uh, interested
interviewed for my-
2132
01:18:00,092 --> 01:18:00,926
[Mike] No, I don't think so.
2133
01:18:01,010 --> 01:18:03,196
[Kurt] Not one penny of her
bail sureties had to be paid
2134
01:18:03,220 --> 01:18:05,347
by anyone who signed,
nor do they have to show proof
2135
01:18:05,431 --> 01:18:06,182
of ability to pay.
2136
01:18:06,265 --> 01:18:07,099
[Kate] No money's put up.
2137
01:18:07,183 --> 01:18:07,975
No money at all.
2138
01:18:08,058 --> 01:18:08,809
It's useless.
2139
01:18:08,893 --> 01:18:10,579
Yeah, they could have put
20 cents or 20 million dollars,
2140
01:18:10,603 --> 01:18:11,621
it wouldn't make any difference.
2141
01:18:11,645 --> 01:18:13,189
Her psychiatrist put up the the 65
2142
01:18:13,272 --> 01:18:14,792
and that's another issue all together.
2143
01:18:15,191 --> 01:18:16,918
[over phone] Hi, you've
reached Dr. Doucet's office.
2144
01:18:16,942 --> 01:18:18,986
Please leave your name telephone number
2145
01:18:19,069 --> 01:18:20,404
and a brief message.
[beep]
2146
01:18:20,487 --> 01:18:21,989
Hi, I'm calling for Dr. Doucet.
2147
01:18:22,072 --> 01:18:23,199
My call was not returned.
2148
01:18:23,282 --> 01:18:25,618
[David] Time,
we thought it was all about time.
2149
01:18:25,701 --> 01:18:27,745
Each step in the extradition process,
2150
01:18:27,828 --> 01:18:29,788
each incomprehensible delay.
2151
01:18:29,872 --> 01:18:31,957
Four weeks, six weeks,
over and over again.
2152
01:18:32,041 --> 01:18:33,959
There was another knife in our guts.
2153
01:18:34,043 --> 01:18:36,754
"The law is slow," they told us and it was.
2154
01:18:36,837 --> 01:18:39,673
Our lawyer Jackie went to see Betty Day,
2155
01:18:39,757 --> 01:18:42,009
an administrator somewhere
in the hierarchy of
2156
01:18:42,092 --> 01:18:47,014
Child Protective Services
and told her that we are concerned
2157
01:18:47,097 --> 01:18:50,392
about the safety of the baby
because the mother is accused
2158
01:18:50,476 --> 01:18:53,437
of a premeditated murder and...
2159
01:18:54,188 --> 01:18:55,231
nothing happened.
2160
01:18:55,314 --> 01:18:56,791
[over phone] Hello, Department
f Health and Community Services.
2161
01:18:56,815 --> 01:18:59,151
Hi, I'm trying to reach Elizabeth Day.
2162
01:18:59,235 --> 01:19:01,779
[automated] Elizabeth Day is not available.
2163
01:19:01,862 --> 01:19:04,448
Please record your message.
2164
01:19:04,531 --> 01:19:05,991
[Kurt] My call was not returned.
2165
01:19:06,075 --> 01:19:08,410
If you were in the Family Health Services,
2166
01:19:08,494 --> 01:19:10,579
wouldn't you want to know
who this accused murderer
2167
01:19:10,663 --> 01:19:12,790
was arranging for her baby to stay with?
2168
01:19:12,873 --> 01:19:14,333
Nobody ever came to see us.
2169
01:19:14,416 --> 01:19:16,728
Even before we left Sunnyvale,
we got a police report that said
2170
01:19:16,752 --> 01:19:17,962
that we were good people.
2171
01:19:18,045 --> 01:19:20,339
Friends and my employer were set
2172
01:19:20,422 --> 01:19:23,842
to write letters that we were
upright members of the community.
2173
01:19:23,926 --> 01:19:25,427
Nobody asked us for that.
2174
01:19:25,511 --> 01:19:27,554
We could have been
convicted child molesters
2175
01:19:27,638 --> 01:19:28,764
in California
2176
01:19:29,348 --> 01:19:30,909
- They didn't care.
- Nobody would have known.
2177
01:19:30,933 --> 01:19:32,494
[Kurt] She wrote directly
to Judge Derek Greene
2178
01:19:32,518 --> 01:19:34,687
who responded through
his secretary with instructions
2179
01:19:34,770 --> 01:19:36,331
on how to write her own
appeal of his decision
2180
01:19:36,355 --> 01:19:37,398
to incarcerate her.
2181
01:19:37,481 --> 01:19:38,721
- [Derek] Mr. Kenny?
- [Kurt] Yes?
2182
01:19:38,774 --> 01:19:40,085
[Derek] This is Chief Justice Greene.
2183
01:19:40,109 --> 01:19:41,694
What I did is...
2184
01:19:41,777 --> 01:19:44,029
on the record, speaks for itself.
2185
01:19:44,113 --> 01:19:45,239
Okay, okay.
2186
01:19:45,322 --> 01:19:47,908
[David] Under an order
from Justice Gail Welsh
2187
01:19:47,992 --> 01:19:51,078
Shirley Turner was released on bail again,
2188
01:19:51,161 --> 01:19:53,706
and we went numb again,
2189
01:19:53,789 --> 01:19:56,292
and we had to give Zachary
right back into the hands
2190
01:19:56,375 --> 01:19:57,375
of Andrew’s killer.
2191
01:19:57,418 --> 01:19:59,437
[Kurt] There is no indication
of a psychological disorder
2192
01:19:59,461 --> 01:20:01,147
that would give concern
about potential harm
2193
01:20:01,171 --> 01:20:02,089
to the public generally.
2194
01:20:02,172 --> 01:20:03,924
Shirley’s last boyfriend before Andrew
2195
01:20:04,008 --> 01:20:06,152
told Pennsylvania police that
Shirley attempted suicide
2196
01:20:06,176 --> 01:20:08,056
on his front doorstep
after he broke up with her
2197
01:20:08,137 --> 01:20:09,513
and had threatened to kill him.
2198
01:20:09,596 --> 01:20:11,366
There is no indication
of a psychological disorder
2199
01:20:11,390 --> 01:20:13,076
that would give concern
about potential harm
2200
01:20:13,100 --> 01:20:14,018
to the public generally.
2201
01:20:14,101 --> 01:20:15,787
Eight people had
restraining orders against her.
2202
01:20:15,811 --> 01:20:17,855
There is no indication
of a psychological disorder
2203
01:20:17,938 --> 01:20:19,582
that would give concern
about potential harm
2204
01:20:19,606 --> 01:20:20,524
to the public generally.
2205
01:20:20,607 --> 01:20:22,294
If any one had bothered
to check the jail records
2206
01:20:22,318 --> 01:20:24,045
during her two-month stay,
the prison psychiatrist
2207
01:20:24,069 --> 01:20:26,030
put her on suicide watch
every 15 minutes.
2208
01:20:26,113 --> 01:20:28,300
She was incredibly disruptive
and even threatened to stab
2209
01:20:28,324 --> 01:20:29,450
another inmate with a fork.
2210
01:20:29,533 --> 01:20:31,493
There is no indication
of a psychological disorder
2211
01:20:31,535 --> 01:20:33,096
that would give concern
about potential harm
2212
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:34,121
to the public generally.
2213
01:20:34,204 --> 01:20:36,957
As her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature-
2214
01:20:37,041 --> 01:20:38,768
The man she was terrorizing
called the police
2215
01:20:38,792 --> 01:20:40,270
and reported Shirley,
but because he didn't
2216
01:20:40,294 --> 01:20:42,046
leave his name, no one took any action.
2217
01:20:42,129 --> 01:20:44,631
As her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature-
2218
01:20:44,715 --> 01:20:46,484
[David] Andrew rejected
her and she killed him.
2219
01:20:46,508 --> 01:20:48,302
Zachary rejected her.
2220
01:20:48,385 --> 01:20:49,385
Paid the price, too.
2221
01:20:49,428 --> 01:20:51,930
[Kurt] As her crime,
while violent, was specific in nature-
2222
01:20:52,014 --> 01:20:53,575
[woman] Of course, the crime was specific.
2223
01:20:53,599 --> 01:20:55,476
She didn’t shoot into a crowd of people.
2224
01:20:55,559 --> 01:20:57,102
[David] We could not conceive how
2225
01:20:57,186 --> 01:21:00,773
they could let a probable
premeditated murderer...
2226
01:21:00,856 --> 01:21:04,193
probable premeditated murderer
walk the streets.
2227
01:21:04,276 --> 01:21:05,670
[Kurt] Dr. Turner's detention is not
2228
01:21:05,694 --> 01:21:07,029
necessary in the public interest.
2229
01:21:07,112 --> 01:21:08,781
Who the hell is the system protecting?
2230
01:21:08,864 --> 01:21:10,008
[Kurt] Dr. Turner's detention is not
2231
01:21:10,032 --> 01:21:11,492
necessary in the public interest.
2232
01:21:11,575 --> 01:21:13,994
And we waited and we waited and we waited
2233
01:21:14,078 --> 01:21:16,497
for the authorities to do their job
2234
01:21:16,580 --> 01:21:18,374
and lock her up!
2235
01:21:18,457 --> 01:21:20,584
You got a dead body with five holes in it
2236
01:21:20,667 --> 01:21:21,794
and it means nothing.
2237
01:21:21,877 --> 01:21:24,004
Under an order from Justice Gail Welsh.
2238
01:21:24,088 --> 01:21:25,398
[over phone]
Good afternoon, Court of Appeals.
2239
01:21:25,422 --> 01:21:26,775
Hi, may please speak
to Judge Welsh, please?
2240
01:21:26,799 --> 01:21:28,026
[woman] Is she expecting your call?
2241
01:21:28,050 --> 01:21:29,343
Uh, probably not, no.
2242
01:21:29,426 --> 01:21:30,886
And now, we got a second dead body
2243
01:21:30,969 --> 01:21:32,113
that couldn't breathe through water.
2244
01:21:32,137 --> 01:21:34,157
[woman] I just spoke with Judge Welsh
and she said no.
2245
01:21:34,181 --> 01:21:35,533
She said no, so I just
wanted to let you know.
2246
01:21:35,557 --> 01:21:37,243
[Kurt] Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary
2247
01:21:37,267 --> 01:21:38,394
in the public interest.
2248
01:21:38,477 --> 01:21:40,396
♪ Dramatic music ♪
2249
01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:41,313
- [gunshot]
- [Andrew] [screams]
2250
01:21:41,397 --> 01:21:45,609
[gunshots]
2251
01:21:46,735 --> 01:21:48,320
[car engine starts]
2252
01:21:48,404 --> 01:21:50,656
[car screeches away]
2253
01:21:53,826 --> 01:21:55,661
[birds chirping]
2254
01:21:55,744 --> 01:21:57,329
[David] She had to be stopped,
2255
01:21:57,413 --> 01:21:59,790
the people who were
supposed to stop her didn't,
2256
01:22:00,249 --> 01:22:01,583
and she got to kill again.
2257
01:22:03,293 --> 01:22:04,586
And I'm gong to do my damnedest
2258
01:22:04,670 --> 01:22:06,439
to see if I can make them
him change the way they-
2259
01:22:06,463 --> 01:22:08,215
they deal with killers.
2260
01:22:08,298 --> 01:22:09,091
[Kurt] And with that,
2261
01:22:09,174 --> 01:22:11,135
your grandma and grandpa became activists.
2262
01:22:11,218 --> 01:22:12,428
We victims-
2263
01:22:12,511 --> 01:22:14,012
[David] We want, number one,
2264
01:22:14,096 --> 01:22:16,348
the whole truth public
2265
01:22:16,432 --> 01:22:17,808
about why Zachary died.
2266
01:22:17,891 --> 01:22:20,060
They've developed a, uh, program,
2267
01:22:20,144 --> 01:22:22,271
a support group for people who've had
2268
01:22:22,354 --> 01:22:23,730
a death through, uh, you know,
2269
01:22:23,814 --> 01:22:24,648
violent death.
2270
01:22:24,731 --> 01:22:26,608
[woman] Welcome to our first, uh,
2271
01:22:26,692 --> 01:22:28,861
Victims of Homicide Annual Vigil.
2272
01:22:28,944 --> 01:22:31,071
[Kate] In this last year,
I've just taken training
2273
01:22:31,155 --> 01:22:33,198
to become a child advocate
2274
01:22:33,282 --> 01:22:35,325
in the dependency court system.
2275
01:22:35,409 --> 01:22:37,286
[man] Jean Doucet,
the psychiatrist who posted
2276
01:22:37,369 --> 01:22:40,497
$65, 000 bail for Mrs. Turner
2277
01:22:40,581 --> 01:22:42,708
was found guilty of
professional misconduct.
2278
01:22:42,791 --> 01:22:44,376
[woman] It was David Bagby and his wife
2279
01:22:44,460 --> 01:22:46,378
who launched the complaint against Doucet
2280
01:22:46,462 --> 01:22:48,380
The three-person panel ordered Doucet
2281
01:22:48,464 --> 01:22:50,340
to undergo psychiatric counseling.
2282
01:22:50,424 --> 01:22:52,610
[Jackie] There was a lot of
sympathy for David and Kate.
2283
01:22:52,634 --> 01:22:54,678
I think it got them at least a result
2284
01:22:54,761 --> 01:22:56,614
that did they-that they
were hoping to accomplish.
2285
01:22:56,638 --> 01:22:58,307
Mr. Wick, child and youth advocate
2286
01:22:58,390 --> 01:22:59,600
for Newfoundland Labrador
2287
01:22:59,683 --> 01:23:01,435
is doing a child death review,
2288
01:23:01,518 --> 01:23:03,437
which is a formal investigation.
2289
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:05,647
And the output of it is a report
2290
01:23:05,731 --> 01:23:07,483
saying "Here's why that baby died,"
2291
01:23:07,566 --> 01:23:09,776
and recommendations for changes
2292
01:23:09,860 --> 01:23:11,278
to cut the chance of that happening
2293
01:23:11,361 --> 01:23:12,279
in the future.
2294
01:23:12,362 --> 01:23:13,739
Obviously- [laughs]
2295
01:23:13,822 --> 01:23:15,699
once that's done,
then we would like to see
2296
01:23:15,782 --> 01:23:18,327
that go to whatever legislative bodies
2297
01:23:18,410 --> 01:23:20,746
either provincial or fed era I
2298
01:23:20,829 --> 01:23:23,916
can write laws to make these
recommendations real.
2299
01:23:27,336 --> 01:23:29,463
[woman] And a report into
the death of Zachary Turner
2300
01:23:29,546 --> 01:23:31,340
will be released in Newfoundland.
2301
01:23:31,423 --> 01:23:32,883
He was drowned by his mother.
2302
01:23:32,966 --> 01:23:34,569
[Kurt] Your grandma was
temporarily injured in a fall
2303
01:23:34,593 --> 01:23:36,220
and couldn't make the trip.
2304
01:23:36,303 --> 01:23:37,846
So your grandpa and I came alone.
2305
01:23:37,930 --> 01:23:39,782
[Darlene] Dr. Marcus Stein
conducted an exhaustive
2306
01:23:39,806 --> 01:23:42,726
investigation over a 15-month period.
2307
01:23:42,809 --> 01:23:44,937
He reached two key conclusions:
2308
01:23:45,020 --> 01:23:47,773
one, Zachary Turner's
death was preventable,
2309
01:23:47,856 --> 01:23:50,359
and two, Zachary was in his mother's care
2310
01:23:50,442 --> 01:23:51,602
when he should not have been.
2311
01:23:51,652 --> 01:23:53,612
The government has
received a scathing report
2312
01:23:53,695 --> 01:23:56,156
that concluded the child protection system
2313
01:23:56,240 --> 01:23:57,491
failed Zachary Turner.
2314
01:23:57,574 --> 01:23:59,493
A serious lack of judgment
2315
01:23:59,576 --> 01:24:00,827
at the senior management level.
2316
01:24:00,911 --> 01:24:03,539
Substandard child protection practices
2317
01:24:03,622 --> 01:24:04,641
contributed to the outcomes.
2318
01:24:04,665 --> 01:24:05,892
[man] There are 58 recommendations
2319
01:24:05,916 --> 01:24:07,167
- in the report.
- I am announcing
2320
01:24:07,251 --> 01:24:08,585
our action plan.
2321
01:24:08,669 --> 01:24:11,004
We will develop policy specific to children
2322
01:24:11,088 --> 01:24:13,423
whose parents are
charged with a violent crime.
2323
01:24:13,507 --> 01:24:15,175
The part I was most interested in,
2324
01:24:15,259 --> 01:24:16,802
as I said, is bail.
2325
01:24:16,885 --> 01:24:18,428
Why was Dr. Shirley Turner
2326
01:24:18,512 --> 01:24:20,389
granted judicial interim release
2327
01:24:20,472 --> 01:24:22,057
commonly known as bail?
2328
01:24:22,891 --> 01:24:24,851
This is the one question
that Dr. Marcus Stein
2329
01:24:24,935 --> 01:24:26,770
did not and could not answer.
2330
01:24:26,853 --> 01:24:28,540
[man] So that's still an open wound,
if you would.
2331
01:24:28,564 --> 01:24:29,314
May I?
2332
01:24:29,398 --> 01:24:30,440
He did say this:
2333
01:24:30,524 --> 01:24:32,526
"Had Dr. Turner not been released on bail
2334
01:24:32,609 --> 01:24:34,820
on 12 December, 2001,
2335
01:24:34,903 --> 01:24:37,739
or on 10 January, 2003,
2336
01:24:37,823 --> 01:24:40,200
my review would have been unnecessary,
2337
01:24:40,284 --> 01:24:42,327
Zachary would be alive today.
2338
01:24:42,411 --> 01:24:44,538
I would like to see parliament pass a law
2339
01:24:44,621 --> 01:24:46,999
denying bail to people accused of murder.
2340
01:24:47,082 --> 01:24:48,959
Put them on the fast track to get to trial
2341
01:24:49,042 --> 01:24:50,627
and get on with it, get to the truth.
2342
01:24:50,711 --> 01:24:52,071
The only way I can see it changing
2343
01:24:52,129 --> 01:24:54,172
is for every citizen cares about this
2344
01:24:54,256 --> 01:24:57,175
to tell his MP that this
law is stupid, change it.
2345
01:24:57,259 --> 01:24:59,219
And, of course, such a selfish thing to do.
2346
01:24:59,303 --> 01:25:00,971
She not only killed Andrew,
2347
01:25:01,054 --> 01:25:03,599
but she left three other
children without a mother
2348
01:25:03,682 --> 01:25:05,684
which is very sad for them.
2349
01:25:05,767 --> 01:25:07,687
[man] And what kind
of regret does that give you?
2350
01:25:08,395 --> 01:25:10,772
Well, if, uh, things
were different, I guess...
2351
01:25:10,856 --> 01:25:12,441
it's possible he'd still be alive
2352
01:25:12,524 --> 01:25:14,109
and rather than...
2353
01:25:14,192 --> 01:25:16,445
memories of just one year...
2354
01:25:16,528 --> 01:25:18,739
it would be, um, a lot of years around.
2355
01:25:18,822 --> 01:25:20,091
[man] Tough losing a little brother.
2356
01:25:20,115 --> 01:25:21,450
[TJ] Yeah, yeah definitely.
2357
01:25:21,533 --> 01:25:23,293
[David] Zachary should
be right here with me.
2358
01:25:23,702 --> 01:25:25,203
He should be off gong to school now
2359
01:25:25,287 --> 01:25:26,347
getting ready to go to school.
2360
01:25:26,371 --> 01:25:28,206
I'm going to continue
to scream long and loud
2361
01:25:28,290 --> 01:25:30,083
about bail...
2362
01:25:30,167 --> 01:25:32,502
for someone accused of...
2363
01:25:32,586 --> 01:25:33,920
what Shirley did to my son.
2364
01:25:34,004 --> 01:25:35,130
[bang]
2365
01:25:44,931 --> 01:25:46,099
♪ Acoustic fingerpicking ♪
2366
01:25:46,183 --> 01:25:47,452
[Kurt] I traveled the world for years
2367
01:25:47,476 --> 01:25:49,144
looking for what was left of your dad.
2368
01:25:49,686 --> 01:25:50,913
I'd made dozens of new friends.
2369
01:25:50,937 --> 01:25:52,356
Dr. DeCucuillo has made the trek
2370
01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:53,607
out to California.
2371
01:25:53,690 --> 01:25:55,650
But here was still one question
I couldn't answer.
2372
01:25:56,109 --> 01:25:57,653
How would I know when I was done?
2373
01:25:58,528 --> 01:25:59,797
And what was I really looking for?
2374
01:25:59,821 --> 01:26:02,616
[Rick] Both as spirituality and as grief...
2375
01:26:03,784 --> 01:26:05,827
to relocation of the
other person is essential.
2376
01:26:05,911 --> 01:26:06,703
[Janice] It's interesting
you should ask that.
2377
01:26:06,787 --> 01:26:08,163
My first response was
2378
01:26:08,246 --> 01:26:09,665
"That's not a person."
2379
01:26:09,748 --> 01:26:11,625
That is simply a mass of...
2380
01:26:11,708 --> 01:26:13,418
tissue and protein and...
2381
01:26:13,502 --> 01:26:15,253
fat and water and-
2382
01:26:15,337 --> 01:26:16,588
something leaves the body...
2383
01:26:17,130 --> 01:26:18,173
when death occurs.
2384
01:26:18,256 --> 01:26:19,132
[Kurt] What was I trying to find?
2385
01:26:19,216 --> 01:26:20,234
[Rick] To resolve our grief,
2386
01:26:20,258 --> 01:26:21,677
we have to be able to
2387
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:24,096
accept the reality of that loss-
2388
01:26:24,179 --> 01:26:25,239
Who's interviewing you, Kurt?
2389
01:26:25,263 --> 01:26:26,682
Get our questions answered
2390
01:26:26,765 --> 01:26:28,850
to the extent that they can be and to...
2391
01:26:28,934 --> 01:26:31,144
basically surrender to the things
2392
01:26:31,228 --> 01:26:33,188
that we can't have answered.
2393
01:26:33,271 --> 01:26:34,666
[Kurt] And how would I
know when I'd found it?
2394
01:26:34,690 --> 01:26:36,692
I appreciate you doing this for him.
2395
01:26:36,775 --> 01:26:38,568
'Cause I know he talked about you a lot.
2396
01:26:38,652 --> 01:26:40,028
He'd talk about you.
2397
01:26:40,112 --> 01:26:41,154
- [Kurt] Really?
- Mm-hm.
2398
01:26:42,781 --> 01:26:44,825
Well, then you're not a
good movie maker, huh?
2399
01:26:44,908 --> 01:26:46,535
[laughter]
2400
01:26:48,453 --> 01:26:49,555
'Cause hat's what he always told me.
2401
01:26:49,579 --> 01:26:50,914
I know he-I know he loved you.
2402
01:26:50,997 --> 01:26:54,209
[Rick] And then to be
able to continue to live...
2403
01:26:54,292 --> 01:26:55,836
remembering the person.
2404
01:26:56,378 --> 01:26:57,738
To be able to remember their life,
2405
01:26:57,796 --> 01:26:58,922
not only their death.
2406
01:26:59,005 --> 01:27:00,090
No, no, no.
2407
01:27:00,173 --> 01:27:01,466
I can feel it, it's not far off.
2408
01:27:02,008 --> 01:27:03,093
It's too late.
2409
01:27:03,593 --> 01:27:05,804
[Kurt] I didn’t want to
stop making this movie.
2410
01:27:05,887 --> 01:27:08,087
That would mean I'd learned
everything there was to know
2411
01:27:08,140 --> 01:27:09,808
and finished my one last movie with him.
2412
01:27:09,891 --> 01:27:11,518
[Rick] Earl Groneman, again, says
2413
01:27:11,601 --> 01:27:14,813
"Grief is love's unwillingness to let go."
2414
01:27:14,896 --> 01:27:16,082
[Danette] He doesn't like to wave goodbye.
2415
01:27:16,106 --> 01:27:17,232
I'll miss you.
2416
01:27:17,691 --> 01:27:20,068
♪ Sentimental music ♪
2417
01:27:24,406 --> 01:27:25,949
♪ emotional music ♪
2418
01:27:26,032 --> 01:27:27,993
[Kurt] One more time. And action.
2419
01:27:28,076 --> 01:27:30,954
It is my brother that
got married here tonight.
2420
01:27:31,037 --> 01:27:32,622
[Kurt] One more time. And action.
2421
01:27:32,706 --> 01:27:34,166
This is your Uncle Kurt.
2422
01:27:34,249 --> 01:27:35,249
[woman] Aww!
2423
01:27:35,709 --> 01:27:36,460
[Kurt] One more time.
2424
01:27:36,543 --> 01:27:37,544
And action.
2425
01:27:38,003 --> 01:27:40,589
[applause]
2426
01:27:42,132 --> 01:27:42,883
[Rick] And the person says,
2427
01:27:42,966 --> 01:27:45,761
"life will never be the
same again, will it?"
2428
01:27:46,511 --> 01:27:49,264
They now know where they are
2429
01:27:49,347 --> 01:27:51,475
and what's involved in moving forward.
2430
01:27:51,558 --> 01:27:52,434
[Kurt] There were so many stories
2431
01:27:52,517 --> 01:27:53,643
I wanted to tell you.
2432
01:27:54,686 --> 01:27:56,354
And somewhere, I hope you're watching.
2433
01:27:57,731 --> 01:27:59,891
I almost gave up making
this film when you were killed.
2434
01:28:00,650 --> 01:28:02,110
I couldn't see the point anymore.
2435
01:28:03,195 --> 01:28:04,821
But something kept me gong.
2436
01:28:05,655 --> 01:28:07,324
And then one day, I realized what it was.
2437
01:28:09,034 --> 01:28:10,869
This film was no longer a letter to you.
2438
01:28:12,412 --> 01:28:13,806
It was now a letter to someone else.
2439
01:28:13,830 --> 01:28:16,333
[David] We thought we'd go get Andrew and...
2440
01:28:16,416 --> 01:28:17,727
get everything organized, whatever,
2441
01:28:17,751 --> 01:28:19,127
and then kill ourselves, because
2442
01:28:19,211 --> 01:28:20,897
- no point going on.
- [Clark] Everybody always says,
2443
01:28:20,921 --> 01:28:21,939
"Well what would be the difference
2444
01:28:21,963 --> 01:28:23,715
if one person weren't alive?"
2445
01:28:23,799 --> 01:28:26,301
You've still got a hell
of a lot to live for...
2446
01:28:26,384 --> 01:28:28,470
and you still got a lot of friends
2447
01:28:28,553 --> 01:28:30,263
and a lot of family
2448
01:28:30,347 --> 01:28:32,516
who love you very, very much.
2449
01:28:32,599 --> 01:28:34,935
[Heather] You are the most amazing-
2450
01:28:35,018 --> 01:28:35,894
I love both of you.
2451
01:28:35,977 --> 01:28:38,647
And the strongest people I've ever known.
2452
01:28:38,730 --> 01:28:39,957
- I love you guys.
- I love them very much.
2453
01:28:39,981 --> 01:28:41,066
I love them very much.
2454
01:28:41,149 --> 01:28:42,275
I love them very much.
2455
01:28:42,359 --> 01:28:43,902
Now, how am I gonna do this without...
2456
01:28:43,985 --> 01:28:45,028
- weeping?
- I admire you
2457
01:28:45,111 --> 01:28:46,231
and respect you so much for-
2458
01:28:46,279 --> 01:28:47,030
for two things:
2459
01:28:47,113 --> 01:28:49,241
one, for such a wonderful
young man that you raised-
2460
01:28:49,324 --> 01:28:50,242
[woman] Doesn't matter what happened.
2461
01:28:50,325 --> 01:28:51,952
They raised a wonderful man.
2462
01:28:52,035 --> 01:28:53,513
Thanks for bringing such a wonderful person
2463
01:28:53,537 --> 01:28:55,348
- into the world.
- You know, Andrew contributed
2464
01:28:55,372 --> 01:28:57,249
a lot to me as far as
2465
01:28:57,332 --> 01:28:58,333
who I am today.
2466
01:28:58,416 --> 01:28:59,626
We won't forget their son.
2467
01:28:59,709 --> 01:29:01,086
[man] And for having the strength
2468
01:29:01,169 --> 01:29:02,729
to make it through something like this.
2469
01:29:02,796 --> 01:29:04,339
[man] With what you've been through
2470
01:29:04,422 --> 01:29:06,424
to still be carrying on,
2471
01:29:06,508 --> 01:29:09,135
still to hold your heads up and keep gong
2472
01:29:09,219 --> 01:29:12,597
and pushing forward is amazing.
2473
01:29:12,681 --> 01:29:13,825
[man] They've done it in such a way
2474
01:29:13,849 --> 01:29:15,201
that it makes you proud to know them
2475
01:29:15,225 --> 01:29:16,265
and to be related to them.
2476
01:29:16,309 --> 01:29:18,353
I think God put some people down on Earth
2477
01:29:18,436 --> 01:29:20,438
just to be examples for the rest of us.
2478
01:29:20,522 --> 01:29:23,316
You are two very, very special people.
2479
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:25,735
There's few things in my life
that have had an effect on me
2480
01:29:25,819 --> 01:29:26,903
like those two people.
2481
01:29:26,987 --> 01:29:28,989
I don't know how else-I love them.
2482
01:29:29,072 --> 01:29:30,490
-We love you and-
-We love them and-
2483
01:29:30,574 --> 01:29:31,449
We're always thinking of you.
2484
01:29:31,533 --> 01:29:33,326
And I think about them daily.
2485
01:29:33,410 --> 01:29:35,137
My thoughts are never
far from either of you.
2486
01:29:35,161 --> 01:29:36,371
I love them and pray for them.
2487
01:29:36,454 --> 01:29:38,123
God's blessings on them both.
2488
01:29:38,206 --> 01:29:39,749
Oh, they know I love them.
2489
01:29:39,833 --> 01:29:42,061
I feel very blessed, as I say,
to be among their friends.
2490
01:29:42,085 --> 01:29:44,087
Well, I just thank them
for being my friends
2491
01:29:44,170 --> 01:29:45,755
for 30-odd years.
2492
01:29:45,839 --> 01:29:48,300
We are very lucky
to have them as our neighbors
2493
01:29:48,383 --> 01:29:49,301
and our true friend.
2494
01:29:49,384 --> 01:29:51,219
God bless you guys and call me.
2495
01:29:51,303 --> 01:29:53,346
It does- [laughs]
2496
01:29:53,430 --> 01:29:55,849
as one of Andrew's
very good friends told us
2497
01:29:55,932 --> 01:29:57,309
very soon after he was murdered,
2498
01:29:57,392 --> 01:29:58,810
We still have children.
2499
01:30:00,645 --> 01:30:02,230
Kurt, Matt, and Chris...
2500
01:30:02,689 --> 01:30:03,732
on down the list.
2501
01:30:03,815 --> 01:30:05,418
I feel like I got lucky in life because...
2502
01:30:05,442 --> 01:30:06,735
they're another set of parents
2503
01:30:06,818 --> 01:30:09,821
Kate and David were a big reason why I am
2504
01:30:09,905 --> 01:30:11,197
the person that I am today.
2505
01:30:11,281 --> 01:30:12,699
We're all their kids.
2506
01:30:12,782 --> 01:30:14,200
I'll always be there for you guys.
2507
01:30:14,284 --> 01:30:15,535
I love you both dearly.
2508
01:30:15,619 --> 01:30:16,953
We all love you guys so much.
2509
01:30:17,037 --> 01:30:18,681
[man] There's really nothing
that I wouldn't do for them.
2510
01:30:18,705 --> 01:30:20,624
[boy] Do you feel better?
2511
01:30:20,874 --> 01:30:22,375
- Do you feel better?
- [Jim] [laughs]
2512
01:30:24,002 --> 01:30:25,086
Yeah.
2513
01:30:27,213 --> 01:30:28,441
Yeah, you made me feel better.
2514
01:30:28,465 --> 01:30:30,050
I know that no matter what,
2515
01:30:30,133 --> 01:30:34,763
you're going to find ways
to continue to help people,
2516
01:30:34,846 --> 01:30:37,641
because that's the type of people you are.
2517
01:30:37,724 --> 01:30:38,558
That's how good you are.
2518
01:30:38,642 --> 01:30:40,393
I just hope that Dave and Kate
2519
01:30:40,477 --> 01:30:41,937
realize how much he loved them
2520
01:30:42,020 --> 01:30:44,314
because just in the short
period of time that I knew him,
2521
01:30:44,397 --> 01:30:46,816
that was the one truth
that I knew to be absolute.
2522
01:30:46,900 --> 01:30:49,569
[Andrew] I'm glad I
wasn't a rebellious youth,
2523
01:30:49,653 --> 01:30:51,297
because it would have been
completely and utterly
2524
01:30:51,321 --> 01:30:53,365
fucking wasted on David and Kate Bagby.
2525
01:30:53,448 --> 01:30:54,491
Let me tell you.
2526
01:30:54,574 --> 01:30:57,827
I had my ear pierced for two weeks.
2527
01:30:58,244 --> 01:30:59,913
They never noticed.
2528
01:30:59,996 --> 01:31:01,223
I was finally sitting at the dinner table
2529
01:31:01,247 --> 01:31:02,516
and I was like- and I actually said to them
2530
01:31:02,540 --> 01:31:04,459
I'm like, "You know, Mom, Dad,
2531
01:31:04,542 --> 01:31:06,628
It's a good thing I'm
not looking for attention,
2532
01:31:06,711 --> 01:31:08,171
because hello!"
2533
01:31:08,254 --> 01:31:09,464
And so they have a look at it.
2534
01:31:09,547 --> 01:31:11,549
They're like, "Oh, that's nice."
2535
01:31:11,925 --> 01:31:13,677
And I love you.
2536
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:16,471
And I know you love me and, uh...
2537
01:31:17,138 --> 01:31:19,975
Yeah, I-I kind of need to move on from that
2538
01:31:20,058 --> 01:31:21,267
because I am a Bagby male.
2539
01:31:21,351 --> 01:31:23,019
We don't-we don't gush very much.
2539
01:31:24,305 --> 01:32:24,741