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Hey, Joe?
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{\an8}Yeah.
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What's the highlight
of your career?
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The highlight of my career?
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Being born in the world.
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Joe Frazier made aggressive
fighting an art form.
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When Frazier throws punches,
he wants to kill you.
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He grew up in South Carolina.
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They didn't have any money,
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they weren't educated,
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but he was especially
well-spoken with his hands.
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He was relentless.
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There was a lot of punches,
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he'd take one to give two,
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but you had to get
inside to give one.
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Joe was a very proud man.
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He never kissed anybody's ass.
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He didn't want to be
a political symbol.
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I speak from my heart.
You know I mean?
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The way I see things
and the way I feel.
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Joe loved cars, fighting,
women, and music.
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Music, to Joe Frazier,
was his sanity.
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That's what you saw when
you saw Joe perform.
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Joe Frazier was a warrior, man.
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Without Joe Frazier, there
wouldn't have been no Ali.
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I'm the champ. You
ain't! You nothing!
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That kind of rivalry,
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we'll never see something
like that again.
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Three of the biggest
fights in history.
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It's no coincidence.
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There was another side to Joe.
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He had a big heart.
Do anything for you.
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If a car's broken down,
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Joe Frazier will
stop every time.
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It's just in his DNA to help.
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White America always
thought Joe Frazier
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was this blue-collar
working man,
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but man, he was
the king of swag.
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No one ever did get
Joe Frazier right.
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No one ever got the
real Joe Frazier.
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How we doing there, guys?
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Uh, rolling.
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There's a lot of things in
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in my life that
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the whole world
just they don't know
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'cause I never sit
down and tell 'em.
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{\an8}Ali-Frazier,
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{\an8}the Fight of the
Century, March 8th, 1971,
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{\an8}transcended the sport of boxing
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and entered into this realm
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of America at the highest order.
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{\an8}Everybody was talking
about Ali and Frazier.
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{\an8}It was the beginning
of the mega-fight era.
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{\an8}Frazier-Ali! It was polarizing.
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He's the Uncle Tom.
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The guy talked from
the side of his mouth.
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It was the bull and the matador.
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He's the other-type Negro!
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Uh, he's a phony.
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Who do you root for? And why?
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Frazier's going to win!
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{\an8}It's a hell of a way
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{\an8}to present one's
society to the world,
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{\an8}because, you know,
that's what it meant.
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Every punch that was thrown
had a subtext behind it.
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{\an8}Totally different styles.
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{\an8}The one area
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{\an8}where they were very
similar in the ring
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was that they were both
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mean, nasty, S.O.B. fighters.
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{\an8}Joe Frazier was prepared to
die in that ring that night.
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Joe came out of ugly origins,
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and boxing became his way out.
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Round one!
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I was born and raised in
Beaufort, South Carolina,
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and my original
home is the South.
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Joe's family, they
were sharecroppers.
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It's not intellectual.
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It's hard living.
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{\an8}It was slow, and it was hot.
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{\an8}Bugs everywhere.
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It was survival.
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Joe Frazier has had
to face adversity,
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{\an8}not from the moment he was born,
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{\an8}but from the moment
he was conceived.
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He was in his mother's stomach,
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she was pregnant with him,
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when his dad had an altercation
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in which he was shot in
his left arm by a friend.
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{\an8}Shot off by, like, a
jealous husband of somebody
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{\an8}that Rubin might've been
doing the wrong thing with,
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{\an8}or "the wild thing,"
as Joe would say.
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{\an8}His mom was shot in
the same incident.
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Could've killed Joe Frazier.
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Joe Frazier didn't grow
up in Beverly Hills.
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1944 in rural South Carolina
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is really not that far removed
from the end of slavery.
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His earliest memory would be
sitting on his father's knee
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and his father would,
would call him "Billy Boy,"
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and, you know, he was known
to be, like, a daddy's boy,
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and he was basically
his father's shadow.
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Mom and Dad had
probably 15 together.
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Out of all of them, I
was the youngest one.
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And being his dad's favorite,
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Joe had to become
his dad's left arm.
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The whole setting of that story,
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the drama,
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and how it ultimately
came full circle
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with him using the left arm
that his father never had,
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and become world famous,
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was really extraordinary,
and in a way, poetic.
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Back in the country,
they had, like,
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maybe one or two
televisions, you know?
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Used to get around those,
to watch fights at the time.
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And you had boxing on
TV several times a week.
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Everybody knew
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who the Heavyweight
Champion of the World was.
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And there was, uh, Joe Louis
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and Rocky Marciano,
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{\an8}Ezzard Charles,
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{\an8}Jersey Joe Walcott,
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and my uncles and my
aunts and my father
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used to say, you know,
"That kid, look at him.
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Look at the body structure."
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He said, "One of these days,
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that boy gonna be a Joe Louis."
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I knocked my arm out of place
when I was a little boy.
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{\an8}Chasing after a hog,
and was told not to,
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{\an8}and fell and broke his arm.
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My Mom said, "Listen, you
go down to the pen..."
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"Feed the hog, do
not tease him."
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"Yes, ma'am."
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When I went down to feed the hog
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I started teasing him.
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He was a big old bull,
man, he was that high
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and he jumped on the fence.
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He couldn't run
no faster than me
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I took away from him, but
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when I tripped and hit the brick
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the brick took the
arm out of place.
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And back in them days
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Mom and Dad didn't have the
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finance.
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They had no
healthcare insurance.
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They had no money
to go to a hospital.
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My Dad didn't have the love.
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You know how you
spell love, right?
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M-O-N-E-Y
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His mom and his dad
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always said he was a fighter.
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{\an8}He had the bag
when he was a kid,
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{\an8}that bag that he built
with his own hands
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and hung from a tree.
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He filled it up with
peat moss, corn cobs,
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shoes, wood,
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whatever he could put in there.
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I grew up with a bad arm,
but that never stopped me.
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Come home in the evening
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I had 30 minutes
to punch the bag.
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It was like a daily recitation.
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That's where his power
really came from.
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The roots of his thoughts,
and his gut feeling,
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came from that time in his life,
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what his mom and
his dad put in him.
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So I decided I'd
find a better way
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for Mom and Dad.
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Joe Frazier was able to come
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from the most
difficult beginnings
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and get to a very lofty
place in this world.
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I tell them, "One of these days, I'm
gonna build y'all whatever you want."
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"I'm gonna be champion
of the world."
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Growing up in Beaufort,
South Carolina,
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there were hard times,
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but when you actually
lived in those times...
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we really didn't
know any better.
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I couldn't understand why
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we had different schools.
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I couldn't ride the bus.
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I had to get out of town. at
certain times during the day.
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Joe got into a
little bit of trouble
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as he got a little older,
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not older, much older, at 15.
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Joe was, uh, 14, 15,
worked on a farm.
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This Black kid is being
accosted by this white man.
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We had problems, you know
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racial problems, you know
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with my white brothers.
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I never could understand why
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because we all had the same arm
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the same leg
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some of them
shorter than others.
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Joe had stuck up
for this Black kid,
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and, uh, the white
man, um, decided
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that, uh, he was going to,
uh, beat Joe with his belt.
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Joe said, being Joe,
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"I wouldn't do that, man."
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Joe's mom, um, said to him,
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"Listen."
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If you can't get along
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with the white people
here in Beaufort,
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you better leave, 'cause, um...
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"that's not, it's not
gonna end up good for you."
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Joe was forced out
of South Carolina,
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but he never, ever held
any grudge towards that.
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His mom put him on a bus
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with a couple of, uh,
legs of fried chicken...
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00:09:22,062 --> 00:09:23,312
ho...
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and he took the bus on his own
from, uh, Beaufort to New York.
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What a horrific childhood,
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and what it took
to get outta there.
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This is a free land
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in which we have a
right to work anywhere.
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{\an8}Joe Frazier came to
New York in 1959,
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00:09:42,957 --> 00:09:44,626
and moved in with
his brother, Tommy.
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They got to a little
bit of trouble there!
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I mean, they-they tried to
start a little side hustle.
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We call it "freedom
of opportunity"...
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I was borrowing cars
that wasn't mine
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and didn't bring it back.
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...and it means
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there is a free
market for our skills.
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I had to leave
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because that wasn't gonna work
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00:10:02,227 --> 00:10:03,228
being a thief.
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00:10:06,314 --> 00:10:07,314
I lived with an aunt
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she was like a maid
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00:10:09,651 --> 00:10:11,610
and my uncle, who was here
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00:10:11,611 --> 00:10:13,279
his name was Cadillac.
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He was married at 16 and had kids, and he
was acting like a grown man at that point.
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During the day, you work at all kinds
of jobs, when you can find them.
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Money's scarce,
particularly when
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00:10:23,832 --> 00:10:25,625
{\an8}yours and Florence's
son Marvis comes along
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{\an8}in September of 1960.
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I got married when
I was real young.
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He was working in
a slaughterhouse.
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He put on weight.
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At the age of 'bout 16,
I was about 230 pounds,
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so I had a little problem of, you
know, of fitting up in clothes,
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so therefore, I couldn't
afford the clothes,
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so I had to find somethin'
to do to get that weight off,
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and then I found
out how to punch.
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When I went in the gym, they had
about 12 heavyweights in there,
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and by the time I left out, I
was the only guy in the gym.
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Fortunately,
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00:10:54,321 --> 00:10:55,946
you meet someone who
sees potential in you.
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Joe, your close
friend and manager
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00:10:58,116 --> 00:11:00,200
since the beginning
of your boxing career,
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00:11:00,201 --> 00:11:02,162
{\an8}Mr. Yancey 'Yank' Durham.
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{\an8}You saw Joe's, uh,
potential early, Yank?
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00:11:05,665 --> 00:11:06,958
Yes. Joe was a dedicated boy.
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00:11:07,292 --> 00:11:10,044
He would, his determination
was so great that I figured
253
00:11:10,045 --> 00:11:11,713
that, uh, Joe would
go all the way.
254
00:11:11,838 --> 00:11:13,214
In a boxing gym,
255
00:11:13,340 --> 00:11:16,050
trainers like to keep
training sessions controlled,
256
00:11:16,051 --> 00:11:18,428
{\an8}but Yank Durham didn't
let Joe do that.
257
00:11:18,553 --> 00:11:20,137
He let him be
258
00:11:20,138 --> 00:11:23,015
as ferocious and aggressive
as he could possibly be.
259
00:11:23,016 --> 00:11:24,684
{\an8}Lot of people don't
know, that, uh,
260
00:11:24,809 --> 00:11:26,019
{\an8}when I first started with him,
261
00:11:26,144 --> 00:11:27,687
{\an8}he thought he was
the type of a fighter
262
00:11:27,812 --> 00:11:30,230
that could move around the ring,
and I said, "Look, this is nonsense,
263
00:11:30,231 --> 00:11:32,859
it's something we have to stop.
You're too short for a boxer.
264
00:11:32,984 --> 00:11:34,401
You're a fighter,
you have the power,
265
00:11:34,402 --> 00:11:37,321
and you got to keep applying
pressure on these fighters."
266
00:11:37,322 --> 00:11:38,865
Felt like that relationship
267
00:11:38,990 --> 00:11:41,450
was, uh, a father-son
relationship.
268
00:11:41,451 --> 00:11:44,913
{\an8}And Joe relied completely
on Yank Durham.
269
00:11:45,038 --> 00:11:47,331
Mr. Yank Durham, God bless him.
270
00:11:47,332 --> 00:11:49,209
I didn't go anywhere
without him.
271
00:11:49,542 --> 00:11:51,710
Frazier won 38 of
40 amateur fights,
272
00:11:51,711 --> 00:11:53,379
grinding through all opposition
273
00:11:53,380 --> 00:11:55,215
to three Golden Glove titles.
274
00:11:55,340 --> 00:11:59,386
I had all knockouts before
I went to the tryout.
275
00:11:59,511 --> 00:12:02,012
I'm telling my
family and my friends
276
00:12:02,013 --> 00:12:03,223
"Hey, I'm gonna beat 'em all."
277
00:12:04,349 --> 00:12:07,476
Round three of the
1964 Olympic Trials
278
00:12:07,477 --> 00:12:10,563
between heavyweights Buster
Mathis and Joe Frazier.
279
00:12:10,689 --> 00:12:13,691
Mathis is enormous!
He weighs 300 pounds.
280
00:12:13,692 --> 00:12:15,276
I didn't think
Mathis won the fight
281
00:12:15,402 --> 00:12:17,112
but he got it anyway, so
282
00:12:17,821 --> 00:12:20,197
I came back with a little
tear dripping down.
283
00:12:20,198 --> 00:12:22,951
Joe lost to Buster Mathis
in the Olympic trials,
284
00:12:23,076 --> 00:12:24,703
but Buster broke his hand,
285
00:12:25,161 --> 00:12:27,664
so Joe Frazier went
to the Olympics.
286
00:12:28,373 --> 00:12:30,709
Tokyo was like a whole
different world altogether.
287
00:12:32,001 --> 00:12:33,210
The second to last guy
288
00:12:33,211 --> 00:12:36,423
he was 231 pounds
289
00:12:36,548 --> 00:12:37,924
of nothing but muscle and bone.
290
00:12:40,051 --> 00:12:41,428
I said come on with it.
291
00:12:43,888 --> 00:12:46,098
I dropped him two times
292
00:12:46,099 --> 00:12:48,435
third time they didn't
let him come back out
293
00:12:49,102 --> 00:12:50,894
and that's where I
bust up the thumb then.
294
00:12:50,895 --> 00:12:55,190
He broke his hand
in the semifinal,
295
00:12:55,191 --> 00:12:57,776
and had to figure out a
way to fight in that final
296
00:12:57,777 --> 00:12:58,944
with that broken hand!
297
00:12:58,945 --> 00:13:01,739
Joe had his own medication.
298
00:13:01,740 --> 00:13:03,324
Put some hot water
299
00:13:03,325 --> 00:13:04,616
some salt
300
00:13:04,617 --> 00:13:05,660
and sugar
301
00:13:06,244 --> 00:13:09,079
an old remedy that Mom used
to give me and Dad, you know.
302
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:10,498
Dolly, his mother,
303
00:13:10,623 --> 00:13:12,459
{\an8}she was just a beauty.
304
00:13:12,751 --> 00:13:15,627
{\an8}Corn-cob pipe, sitting
on a front porch.
305
00:13:15,628 --> 00:13:17,505
Dolly would eat dirt
every day with a spoon.
306
00:13:17,630 --> 00:13:18,923
She would go out,
307
00:13:19,049 --> 00:13:20,799
and then find some of
this peat soil stuff,
308
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,176
and eat it,
309
00:13:22,177 --> 00:13:23,845
and I asked Joe
what it was about,
310
00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:25,679
and he said, "That's where
you get the goodness."
311
00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:27,514
You know, she wanted the
minerals from the earth.
312
00:13:27,515 --> 00:13:30,768
Joe Frazier was
from Gullah culture.
313
00:13:30,769 --> 00:13:33,103
In the Gullah culture
and tradition,
314
00:13:33,104 --> 00:13:35,981
we were spiritually
into the church,
315
00:13:35,982 --> 00:13:38,984
but at the same time,
being into root,
316
00:13:38,985 --> 00:13:40,527
and witches, spirits.
317
00:13:40,528 --> 00:13:42,697
You couldn't go to a doctor,
318
00:13:42,822 --> 00:13:45,449
so Joe always concocted things.
319
00:13:45,450 --> 00:13:47,744
They came from his childhood, the
most obscure things you could imagine
320
00:13:47,827 --> 00:13:48,828
to fix something.
321
00:13:48,953 --> 00:13:50,120
Whether it was the flu,
322
00:13:50,121 --> 00:13:52,707
whether his back was
hurting, arthritis...
323
00:13:52,957 --> 00:13:54,876
Sometimes he'd write
on the jar what it was.
324
00:13:55,001 --> 00:13:56,336
He might just put,
"hair growing" there.
325
00:13:56,419 --> 00:13:58,213
If you've got bad hands
from hitting the bags,
326
00:13:58,296 --> 00:14:00,840
"Come here, son, let me put
some of this stuff on there."
327
00:14:00,965 --> 00:14:03,343
Joe used to take a
big mayonnaise jar
328
00:14:03,468 --> 00:14:06,679
and fill it with liquor and
orange peels and rock candy,
329
00:14:06,805 --> 00:14:10,350
and have it sit and marinate
for about two or three months,
330
00:14:10,475 --> 00:14:11,725
and shake it up,
331
00:14:11,726 --> 00:14:14,103
and every time we'd go someplace,
he would take some of that,
332
00:14:14,104 --> 00:14:16,647
and that would be his medication,
for whatever ailed him.
333
00:14:16,648 --> 00:14:18,525
His big thing was
Westley's Tire Cleaner.
334
00:14:18,650 --> 00:14:19,734
It was a special cleaner
335
00:14:19,859 --> 00:14:21,735
that they had for the
limousine company,
336
00:14:21,736 --> 00:14:23,445
for the white walls,
337
00:14:23,446 --> 00:14:25,489
so he'd spray it on a toothbrush
and then brush his teeth with it.
338
00:14:25,490 --> 00:14:27,199
Gargle something,
339
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,284
maybe Courvoisier, maybe lemon
juice. In his mind, he was, like,
340
00:14:29,285 --> 00:14:32,005
"Hey, if it's gonna make the tires
white, it'll make my teeth white."
341
00:14:33,957 --> 00:14:36,376
Joe Frazier made the
most of his opportunity
342
00:14:36,543 --> 00:14:39,169
in 1964.
343
00:14:39,170 --> 00:14:42,006
He was going to get the
job done, no matter what.
344
00:14:42,132 --> 00:14:43,633
Fighters have, many times,
345
00:14:43,758 --> 00:14:46,593
fought with injuries that
they sustained during a fight,
346
00:14:46,594 --> 00:14:48,221
{\an8}but it's very rare
347
00:14:48,346 --> 00:14:51,432
{\an8}that somebody goes into a
fight with that kind of injury.
348
00:14:51,433 --> 00:14:53,309
It's emblematic of Frazier.
349
00:14:53,435 --> 00:14:56,604
Joe Frazier, who was
concealing a broken thumb,
350
00:14:56,730 --> 00:14:58,647
won a gold medal.
351
00:14:58,648 --> 00:14:59,940
Joe was very patriotic.
352
00:14:59,941 --> 00:15:01,692
He was the only
American to win it,
353
00:15:01,693 --> 00:15:03,235
and he was so, so proud of that.
354
00:15:03,236 --> 00:15:05,070
Nobody won the
gold medal but me.
355
00:15:05,071 --> 00:15:07,239
It was a great thrill
356
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:08,575
to know that
357
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:10,827
I saved America.
358
00:15:12,537 --> 00:15:13,788
In 1964,
359
00:15:13,913 --> 00:15:15,289
when Joe came back
from the Olympics,
360
00:15:15,290 --> 00:15:18,168
things was awful hard
for Joe and myself.
361
00:15:18,793 --> 00:15:20,420
Time was real bad
362
00:15:20,545 --> 00:15:21,795
I didn't have a job.
363
00:15:21,796 --> 00:15:24,089
I was working at
the slaughterhouse
364
00:15:24,090 --> 00:15:26,259
and then I got laid off.
365
00:15:27,052 --> 00:15:28,761
Look, he was a guy
with a bad hand.
366
00:15:28,762 --> 00:15:30,637
Wasn't particularly verbal.
367
00:15:30,638 --> 00:15:32,057
Joe Frazier was
country, you know,
368
00:15:32,182 --> 00:15:36,978
and Joe didn't have the
wordplay to deny this.
369
00:15:37,103 --> 00:15:41,024
{\an8}He was a reflection of
those country roots.
370
00:15:41,149 --> 00:15:43,817
{\an8}An Olympic gold medal
371
00:15:43,818 --> 00:15:48,364
{\an8}was a very different
phenomenon, economically,
372
00:15:48,365 --> 00:15:49,615
in those days,
373
00:15:49,616 --> 00:15:50,783
and at that point,
374
00:15:50,784 --> 00:15:52,368
there was no way of knowing
375
00:15:52,369 --> 00:15:55,288
that he was going to become
the fighter that he became.
376
00:15:55,413 --> 00:15:58,291
Well, I done spent
most of the...
377
00:15:58,625 --> 00:16:02,295
most of our savings to, to
buy, uh, food for the kids,
378
00:16:02,420 --> 00:16:04,505
and pay the bills and
rent, and everything.
379
00:16:04,506 --> 00:16:06,131
His hand was broke
and he couldn't work,
380
00:16:06,132 --> 00:16:07,925
and I had the
children to care for,
381
00:16:07,926 --> 00:16:10,970
I couldn't work, so...
382
00:16:11,096 --> 00:16:12,639
we were just sort of stuck.
383
00:16:12,764 --> 00:16:15,182
Well I was going blind in '64
384
00:16:15,183 --> 00:16:17,184
when I came back from the Games.
385
00:16:17,185 --> 00:16:21,563
{\an8}He had shrapnel in his
eye from the speed bag,
386
00:16:21,564 --> 00:16:25,609
a little sliver of steel that
cut into his eye's retina.
387
00:16:25,610 --> 00:16:27,737
It made him 80%
blind in one eye,
388
00:16:27,862 --> 00:16:29,196
and he fought his
whole career that way.
389
00:16:29,197 --> 00:16:32,449
Blind and broke wasn't no fun.
390
00:16:32,450 --> 00:16:33,534
Yank, you told Dr. Gray
391
00:16:33,535 --> 00:16:35,704
that you thought it would
take at least $5,000
392
00:16:35,829 --> 00:16:37,705
to get Joe launched on a
professional fight career.
393
00:16:37,706 --> 00:16:39,832
That's true. I sit and
talk with Dr. Gray,
394
00:16:39,833 --> 00:16:41,751
and I asked him
about a co-operation,
395
00:16:41,876 --> 00:16:43,377
so he talked to various people,
396
00:16:43,378 --> 00:16:45,714
and we got the corporation
together, that's where we are today.
397
00:16:45,797 --> 00:16:46,797
Mr. Wright,
398
00:16:46,798 --> 00:16:48,050
how and why was
Cloverlay formed?
399
00:16:48,133 --> 00:16:49,925
Dr. Baldwin had asked me
400
00:16:49,926 --> 00:16:53,429
to give him a method of
sponsoring a prizefighter.
401
00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:55,305
{\an8}How did you get
involved with Cloverlay?
402
00:16:55,306 --> 00:16:56,849
{\an8}I read about it
in the newspaper,
403
00:16:56,850 --> 00:16:58,685
{\an8}and I called Dr. Baldwin
404
00:16:58,810 --> 00:17:01,228
regarding a purchase of a share.
405
00:17:01,229 --> 00:17:03,315
My dad showed up
at the next meeting
406
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:04,274
with 500 hours,
407
00:17:04,274 --> 00:17:05,191
and now he was
408
00:17:05,192 --> 00:17:07,235
one of the founding
guys of Cloverlay.
409
00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:10,405
We guaranteed Joe $100
a week for three years,
410
00:17:10,530 --> 00:17:12,532
and this was before any
earnings had come in.
411
00:17:14,868 --> 00:17:18,162
Cloverlay really looked
out for Joe Frazier.
412
00:17:18,163 --> 00:17:21,916
Isn't it kind of unusual for a
woman to be part owner of a boxer?
413
00:17:22,208 --> 00:17:24,377
Yes, that's what
made it so thrilling.
414
00:17:27,088 --> 00:17:28,882
They were guiding Joe's career.
415
00:17:29,007 --> 00:17:30,549
They didn't want to exploit Joe,
416
00:17:30,550 --> 00:17:33,302
they wanted to see that
Joe was fairly treated.
417
00:17:33,303 --> 00:17:35,054
It's a real good
feeling, you know,
418
00:17:35,055 --> 00:17:37,056
that you really got people
like that behind ya,
419
00:17:37,057 --> 00:17:39,100
and, uh, they're wonderful
people to be with.
420
00:17:39,225 --> 00:17:41,186
You could kind of
brag to your neighbor,
421
00:17:41,311 --> 00:17:44,396
to your boss or coworkers,
that you owned a fighter.
422
00:17:44,397 --> 00:17:46,733
They would sell these
shares of stock,
423
00:17:46,858 --> 00:17:48,109
and they were $250.
424
00:17:48,234 --> 00:17:51,820
The Joe Frazier/Cloverlay
story became popular.
425
00:17:51,821 --> 00:17:54,908
As time went by, they
increased in value
426
00:17:55,033 --> 00:17:56,576
to, what I remember
someone saying,
427
00:17:56,701 --> 00:17:58,912
like, almost $14,000 a share.
428
00:17:59,037 --> 00:18:00,289
You think it was
a good investment?
429
00:18:00,372 --> 00:18:02,707
Very good. I have no complaints.
430
00:18:03,083 --> 00:18:07,170
I was rooting for Joe Frazier,
who I loved as a boxing fan.
431
00:18:07,295 --> 00:18:10,339
I loved watching him run through
the Heavyweight Division.
432
00:18:10,340 --> 00:18:11,757
Frazier was the only American
433
00:18:11,758 --> 00:18:16,971
to win a gold medal in
the 1964 Olympic Boxing.
434
00:18:17,097 --> 00:18:18,431
And Frazier is down!
435
00:18:21,434 --> 00:18:23,143
At 11 and 0,
436
00:18:23,144 --> 00:18:26,563
he faced a very tough
fighter in Oscar Bonavena,
437
00:18:26,564 --> 00:18:30,860
a South American fighter
who had power in both hands,
438
00:18:30,986 --> 00:18:33,279
and because of the
style Frazier fought,
439
00:18:33,405 --> 00:18:36,282
it was two trucks
coming together.
440
00:18:36,408 --> 00:18:38,993
Bonavena is probably
the stronger of the two,
441
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:40,913
and has fought the more
experienced opponents.
442
00:18:40,996 --> 00:18:42,872
That one particular fight
443
00:18:43,665 --> 00:18:45,834
I didn't like the
way I performed.
444
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,043
He could punch.
445
00:18:48,962 --> 00:18:50,547
Frazier down again!
446
00:18:50,672 --> 00:18:53,007
There was a three-knockdown
rule in effect,
447
00:18:53,008 --> 00:18:54,675
so his career at that point
448
00:18:54,676 --> 00:18:56,469
could have been short-circuited.
449
00:18:56,594 --> 00:18:58,680
He was trying to get
that third knockdown
450
00:18:59,055 --> 00:19:00,557
with a push and a shove.
451
00:19:00,682 --> 00:19:03,018
Because he knew if he
pushed me down a third time
452
00:19:03,143 --> 00:19:04,727
they were gonna stop the fight.
453
00:19:04,728 --> 00:19:06,145
Yank Durham was furious.
454
00:19:06,146 --> 00:19:08,189
Joe had gotten sloppy.
455
00:19:08,315 --> 00:19:11,859
He had started to believe
that he couldn't be hurt.
456
00:19:11,860 --> 00:19:14,571
"I lay hands on
them and they fall."
457
00:19:15,697 --> 00:19:17,782
And there it is, the final bell!
458
00:19:17,907 --> 00:19:21,618
That was a real crucible
for him early in his career,
459
00:19:21,619 --> 00:19:23,620
but still won a decision.
460
00:19:23,621 --> 00:19:25,832
But you came on to win,
I wanna congratulate you,
461
00:19:25,957 --> 00:19:27,333
you're still undefeated,
462
00:19:27,334 --> 00:19:29,668
and you're certainly
a wonderful prospect.
463
00:19:29,669 --> 00:19:32,422
One of these days, we hope
to have you in a title fight.
464
00:19:32,547 --> 00:19:33,797
Thank you very much. Everybody!
465
00:19:33,798 --> 00:19:34,967
Thank you very
much, Joe Frazier.
466
00:19:35,050 --> 00:19:36,051
Thank you!
467
00:19:36,176 --> 00:19:39,012
{\an8}The man to beat me
hasn't been born yet.
468
00:19:41,848 --> 00:19:43,307
He said he was the greatest.
469
00:19:43,308 --> 00:19:44,893
Nobody could beat him. I'm the
470
00:19:45,018 --> 00:19:47,145
Heavyweight Champ of the World,
and I don't have to talk no more
471
00:19:47,228 --> 00:19:49,730
and say "I'm the greatest," because
people tell me I'm the greatest.
472
00:19:49,731 --> 00:19:51,899
I came outta Mama like this.
473
00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:53,735
I am the greatest.
I am the king.
474
00:19:53,860 --> 00:19:55,153
I wanna shut him down!
475
00:19:55,278 --> 00:19:56,779
I'll be champion,
476
00:19:56,780 --> 00:19:59,656
and I can stay in the ring
ten more years easy, I figure.
477
00:19:59,657 --> 00:20:01,700
So you're not prepared
to discuss your feelings
478
00:20:01,701 --> 00:20:02,744
about the Vietnam War?
479
00:20:02,869 --> 00:20:04,621
Mm-mm.
480
00:20:09,793 --> 00:20:11,835
World Heavyweight
Champion Cassius Clay
481
00:20:11,836 --> 00:20:14,422
{\an8}refused to take the Oath
of Induction into the Army.
482
00:20:14,547 --> 00:20:17,550
{\an8}The Black Muslim fighter, who's
also known as Muhammad Ali,
483
00:20:17,675 --> 00:20:19,218
was immediately
stripped of his title
484
00:20:19,219 --> 00:20:21,179
by the World Boxing Association.
485
00:20:21,304 --> 00:20:23,973
My intention is to box,
to win a clean fight,
486
00:20:24,099 --> 00:20:25,724
but in war,
487
00:20:25,725 --> 00:20:29,061
the intention is to
kill, kill, kill, kill,
488
00:20:29,062 --> 00:20:31,689
and continue killing
innocent people!
489
00:20:31,690 --> 00:20:35,067
Muhammad Ali refusing induction
into the United States Army
490
00:20:35,068 --> 00:20:36,527
during the height of the war
491
00:20:36,528 --> 00:20:42,241
had enormous sociological
and political impact.
492
00:20:42,242 --> 00:20:46,036
{\an8}Muhammad Ali was
prohibited from fighting,
493
00:20:46,037 --> 00:20:48,331
{\an8}and Madison Square Garden said
494
00:20:48,456 --> 00:20:53,752
that New York State would
recognize a championship fight
495
00:20:53,753 --> 00:20:57,047
between Joe Frazier
and Buster Mathis.
496
00:20:57,048 --> 00:20:59,092
Even the fighters
themselves know
497
00:20:59,217 --> 00:21:01,301
that they cannot be
considered world champions
498
00:21:01,302 --> 00:21:02,636
until they've
fought Muhammad Ali.
499
00:21:02,637 --> 00:21:04,304
What are your feelings
about the demonstration
500
00:21:04,305 --> 00:21:06,056
against the fight?
501
00:21:06,057 --> 00:21:07,642
Don't know anything about it.
502
00:21:07,767 --> 00:21:09,893
Got the fight on my mind. I
get out there and I go to work,
503
00:21:09,894 --> 00:21:12,730
and as long as Mathis wanna
be there and be smoked on,
504
00:21:12,731 --> 00:21:13,940
I'm gonna smoke him.
505
00:21:19,070 --> 00:21:20,279
{\an8}Even before I
turned professional,
506
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,116
{\an8}I'd seen him annihilate
Buster Mathis.
507
00:21:23,241 --> 00:21:25,160
He beat that boy, beat that boy,
508
00:21:25,535 --> 00:21:27,495
and finally knocked him out.
509
00:21:27,620 --> 00:21:29,872
From that point on, everyone
was afraid of the small guy.
510
00:21:29,873 --> 00:21:31,207
Frazier wasn't that big.
511
00:21:31,499 --> 00:21:34,668
He got the maximum out of
his physical abilities,
512
00:21:34,669 --> 00:21:37,714
fighting, you know, the
best of competition,
513
00:21:37,839 --> 00:21:39,590
Eddie Machen,
514
00:21:39,591 --> 00:21:41,301
George Chuvalo,
515
00:21:41,426 --> 00:21:42,634
and Oscar Bonavena twice.
516
00:21:42,635 --> 00:21:44,345
The second Oscar Bonavena fight,
517
00:21:44,346 --> 00:21:46,346
I was ten years old.
518
00:21:46,347 --> 00:21:49,600
Joe's son, Marvis, and I were around the
same age, and we were pretty good friends.
519
00:21:49,601 --> 00:21:51,769
My dad, of course,
put us at ringside.
520
00:21:51,770 --> 00:21:55,023
I remember it being, like,
kind of a brutal fight.
521
00:21:55,148 --> 00:21:58,275
I hit him with everything and
he just wouldn't fall, man.
522
00:21:58,276 --> 00:21:59,443
He was a tough guy.
523
00:21:59,444 --> 00:22:00,904
After the fight was over,
524
00:22:01,029 --> 00:22:04,156
they rushed Marvis and I back
into Joe's dressing room,
525
00:22:04,157 --> 00:22:06,075
and I see Oscar
Bonavena walk in,
526
00:22:06,076 --> 00:22:09,703
and Bonavena did not
have his eyes open,
527
00:22:09,704 --> 00:22:11,455
'cause they were swollen
shut, at that point,
528
00:22:11,456 --> 00:22:13,540
and somebody had to lift his arm
529
00:22:13,541 --> 00:22:16,627
to put it into Joe's,
and to shake his hand.
530
00:22:16,628 --> 00:22:20,215
The brutality of that sport
struck me that night, for sure,
531
00:22:20,340 --> 00:22:21,548
and it, and it
doesn't leave you.
532
00:22:21,549 --> 00:22:23,760
It's a brutal, brutal sport.
533
00:22:29,307 --> 00:22:31,184
{\an8}Tomorrow night, Joe
fights Jimmy Ellis
534
00:22:31,309 --> 00:22:33,268
{\an8}for the World
Heavyweight Championship
535
00:22:33,269 --> 00:22:35,479
{\an8}at Madison Square Garden.
536
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,273
{\an8}Music was what he,
he enjoyed doing,
537
00:22:38,274 --> 00:22:40,693
{\an8}and people let him do it.
538
00:22:40,694 --> 00:22:43,405
But right now, here he
is with The Knockouts,
539
00:22:43,530 --> 00:22:44,823
singing "Knock on Wood."
540
00:22:50,787 --> 00:22:52,998
♪ I don't want to lose ♪
541
00:22:53,123 --> 00:22:54,916
♪ This good thing, baby ♪
542
00:22:55,083 --> 00:22:56,835
♪ That I got ♪
543
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,335
♪ If I do... ♪
544
00:22:58,336 --> 00:23:00,254
{\an8}To go on The Ed Sullivan Show
545
00:23:00,255 --> 00:23:03,550
{\an8}before the day he's gonna
fight Jimmy Ellis...
546
00:23:03,675 --> 00:23:05,551
Live! And it was live back then!
547
00:23:05,552 --> 00:23:06,792
...he's supposed to be resting.
548
00:23:06,886 --> 00:23:08,679
I mean, this guy was,
like, made of concrete.
549
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,556
♪ I wonder Do you
feel it, baby? ♪
550
00:23:10,557 --> 00:23:11,433
♪ Oww! ♪
551
00:23:11,558 --> 00:23:13,434
♪ I wonder, do you feel it? ♪
552
00:23:13,435 --> 00:23:14,935
♪ Knock on wood ♪
553
00:23:14,936 --> 00:23:17,397
Not only was he doing a
good job on Ed Sullivan,
554
00:23:17,522 --> 00:23:18,565
he walks in the ring
555
00:23:18,690 --> 00:23:20,817
and does his day
job extremely well.
556
00:23:20,942 --> 00:23:23,653
Champion Joe Frazier
takes on Jimmy Ellis.
557
00:23:26,489 --> 00:23:28,907
The bob-and-weave style
was staying low...
558
00:23:28,908 --> 00:23:31,702
like the Henry Armstrongs,
the Tysons of the world.
559
00:23:31,703 --> 00:23:33,496
That's my whole
trick about fighting,
560
00:23:33,621 --> 00:23:34,955
you know what I mean?
561
00:23:34,956 --> 00:23:37,709
Stay close on a man, and
take the room away from him.
562
00:23:37,834 --> 00:23:39,919
There was a lot of nuance
to what he did, you know?
563
00:23:40,045 --> 00:23:41,962
He would use his jab
on different levels,
564
00:23:41,963 --> 00:23:44,298
then he'd double with the left
hook, so that'd surprise you.
565
00:23:44,299 --> 00:23:45,758
When you perfect it,
566
00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:48,261
it's very tough for any
opponent to deal with.
567
00:23:48,386 --> 00:23:49,928
Jimmy Ellis, to Joe,
568
00:23:49,929 --> 00:23:52,015
was just too relentless
and too powerful for him.
569
00:23:53,099 --> 00:23:54,392
{\an8}He goes out
570
00:23:54,517 --> 00:23:56,144
{\an8}and knocks Jimmy Ellis
out in five rounds.
571
00:23:56,227 --> 00:23:57,561
Joe Frazier becomes
572
00:23:57,562 --> 00:23:59,980
the undisputed Heavyweight
Champion of the World
573
00:23:59,981 --> 00:24:01,274
in Madison Square Garden.
574
00:24:01,399 --> 00:24:02,399
An elated...
575
00:24:11,951 --> 00:24:14,245
America in 1971
576
00:24:14,371 --> 00:24:17,164
was divided over
the war in Vietnam,
577
00:24:17,165 --> 00:24:19,626
it was divided
over racial issues.
578
00:24:21,419 --> 00:24:24,254
Think about the
assassination of Malcolm X,
579
00:24:24,255 --> 00:24:25,340
Martin Luther King,
580
00:24:25,465 --> 00:24:26,465
Robert Kennedy,
581
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:27,758
and, of course,
582
00:24:27,759 --> 00:24:30,470
Muhammad Ali's
three-and-a-half-year exile.
583
00:24:32,889 --> 00:24:35,850
Black people got to the point where
they couldn't take it no more.
584
00:24:35,975 --> 00:24:38,602
To make some people
understand sometimes
585
00:24:38,603 --> 00:24:40,814
you have to use
bottles and bricks.
586
00:24:40,939 --> 00:24:43,190
You may not intend on it,
you don't wanna use it,
587
00:24:43,191 --> 00:24:45,025
but then again,
you just have to.
588
00:24:45,026 --> 00:24:46,945
Muhammad Ali and Joe
589
00:24:47,070 --> 00:24:51,782
really became surrogates
for that culture war,
590
00:24:51,783 --> 00:24:55,203
Muhammad willingly,
Joe unwillingly.
591
00:24:55,328 --> 00:24:57,580
When it came to the politics,
and the wars and stuff,
592
00:24:57,706 --> 00:24:59,906
he said, "I'm not qualified
to make a judgment on that."
593
00:25:00,125 --> 00:25:02,419
For Joe Frazier to be a
champion, he's gotta beat me.
594
00:25:03,128 --> 00:25:04,545
He said, "You got my title."
595
00:25:04,546 --> 00:25:06,339
I said, "I ain't
got your title."
596
00:25:06,756 --> 00:25:08,091
I didn't take it away from you.
597
00:25:09,175 --> 00:25:10,677
You know what happened.
598
00:25:10,802 --> 00:25:12,511
You didn't fulfill
your responsibility.
599
00:25:12,512 --> 00:25:14,471
"That's why you lost the title."
600
00:25:14,472 --> 00:25:17,307
There were times
during Ali's exile
601
00:25:17,308 --> 00:25:18,976
when they were quite friendly.
602
00:25:18,977 --> 00:25:21,563
Before he had his title,
uh, stripped from him,
603
00:25:21,688 --> 00:25:23,314
I had a lot of respect for him.
604
00:25:23,315 --> 00:25:26,900
Joe was helpful to
Ali in different ways.
605
00:25:26,901 --> 00:25:30,363
He said, "Joe Frazier, I
need to go to New York."
606
00:25:30,488 --> 00:25:32,239
I said, "Alright. I'll
take you to New York."
607
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,949
I put him in my car.
608
00:25:33,950 --> 00:25:35,410
I took him to New York.
609
00:25:35,535 --> 00:25:36,660
We got to start talking.
610
00:25:36,661 --> 00:25:38,704
He said he didn't
have enough money.
611
00:25:38,705 --> 00:25:40,414
I can't remember what it was
612
00:25:40,415 --> 00:25:42,042
five hundred dollars
613
00:25:42,250 --> 00:25:43,209
two hundred dollars
614
00:25:43,209 --> 00:25:44,169
three hundred dollars
615
00:25:44,170 --> 00:25:45,252
but I gave him some money.
616
00:25:45,253 --> 00:25:47,379
We go into New York
617
00:25:47,380 --> 00:25:48,881
he got out of the car
618
00:25:48,882 --> 00:25:50,174
"Joe Frazier
619
00:25:50,175 --> 00:25:51,425
got my title.
620
00:25:51,426 --> 00:25:52,510
"I want my title!"
621
00:25:52,635 --> 00:25:54,386
Man, come on man.
622
00:25:54,387 --> 00:25:55,805
Give me a break, I brought you.
623
00:25:56,347 --> 00:25:57,347
"That's Joe Frazier!"
624
00:25:57,348 --> 00:25:58,433
You, Joe Frazier!
625
00:25:58,558 --> 00:26:00,143
I want my bout with y'all!
626
00:26:00,268 --> 00:26:01,394
Ali was angry.
627
00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:03,854
He'd been stripped of his title.
628
00:26:03,855 --> 00:26:08,067
He was being treated
by many Americans
629
00:26:08,068 --> 00:26:10,069
as an object of scorn.
630
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:11,362
Take it easy, man.
631
00:26:11,363 --> 00:26:13,448
We'll get the contract together.
632
00:26:13,573 --> 00:26:15,283
Just chill out, you
know what I mean?
633
00:26:15,408 --> 00:26:16,660
Joe said to me,
634
00:26:16,785 --> 00:26:19,745
"This scam booger has got
my money in his pocket,
635
00:26:19,746 --> 00:26:21,455
and he's talkin' bad about me."
636
00:26:21,456 --> 00:26:23,166
The whole time,
going back, he said,
637
00:26:23,375 --> 00:26:25,167
"Yeah, I was talking
to him in the car,
638
00:26:25,168 --> 00:26:26,503
but I was thinking of how
639
00:26:26,628 --> 00:26:28,087
I'm gonna kill him
in the ring legally."
640
00:26:28,088 --> 00:26:30,090
I helped him with a
lot of things that
641
00:26:30,215 --> 00:26:31,965
most people, they wouldn't do.
642
00:26:31,966 --> 00:26:34,260
We went to the President
of the United States.
643
00:26:34,386 --> 00:26:35,969
President Nixon.
644
00:26:35,970 --> 00:26:39,723
"Mr, President, for me, would
you give Muhammad his license?"
645
00:26:39,724 --> 00:26:42,267
He says, "Joe, do you
think you can take him?"
646
00:26:42,268 --> 00:26:44,020
"I believe I can take him."
647
00:26:46,356 --> 00:26:50,025
{\an8}When the white
man took his title
648
00:26:50,026 --> 00:26:53,154
{\an8}and denied him a chance to
do anything to make a living,
649
00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:54,698
Joe Frazier stood up.
650
00:26:54,823 --> 00:26:56,449
He came to the plate.
651
00:26:56,574 --> 00:26:59,243
The main thing, we
were responsible
652
00:26:59,244 --> 00:27:00,786
for him to get
half of the purse,
653
00:27:00,787 --> 00:27:03,622
and after he got this money,
and got a little foothold,
654
00:27:03,623 --> 00:27:04,833
you know what I mean,
655
00:27:05,083 --> 00:27:07,001
he tried to do everything
and say everything
656
00:27:07,127 --> 00:27:08,336
to put me down.
657
00:27:08,461 --> 00:27:10,296
He was the champion
of the world.
658
00:27:10,422 --> 00:27:11,840
But, therefore
659
00:27:11,965 --> 00:27:15,426
if you ain't got something
right to say to me
660
00:27:15,427 --> 00:27:17,637
then you better
keep being quiet.
661
00:27:17,762 --> 00:27:20,140
'Cause I'm gonna
peel off and hit you.
662
00:27:20,265 --> 00:27:21,765
It was 2.5 million each
663
00:27:21,766 --> 00:27:23,517
{\an8}that they got for that fight.
664
00:27:23,518 --> 00:27:25,686
That was the biggest
sports payoff
665
00:27:25,687 --> 00:27:28,105
that an athlete got in
the history of sports.
666
00:27:28,106 --> 00:27:30,232
{\an8}It's the biggest fight,
because for the first time,
667
00:27:30,233 --> 00:27:32,568
{\an8}you've had a witty, quick,
fast-talking heavyweight champ.
668
00:27:32,569 --> 00:27:34,320
{\an8}When the most of them
ask him a question,
669
00:27:34,446 --> 00:27:35,488
{\an8}"How do you feel, champ?"
670
00:27:37,699 --> 00:27:39,867
{\an8}I think a lot of Black
people hear Ali saying,
671
00:27:39,868 --> 00:27:41,369
{\an8}"In addition to everything else,
672
00:27:41,494 --> 00:27:43,747
you're a country boy,
you're a farm boy.
673
00:27:43,872 --> 00:27:46,082
If you want to really
get deep, you know,
674
00:27:46,207 --> 00:27:47,500
you're a field slave."
675
00:27:49,502 --> 00:27:53,173
{\an8}Ali called him stupid,
called him ignorant,
676
00:27:53,298 --> 00:27:54,548
{\an8}called him "Uncle Tom,"
677
00:27:54,549 --> 00:27:56,676
'cause he knew Frazier
was sensitive to that,
678
00:27:56,801 --> 00:27:58,720
saying, "The white man
is controlling you."
679
00:27:58,845 --> 00:28:01,347
'Cause he's the Uncle Tom.
680
00:28:01,473 --> 00:28:03,265
Joe Frazier, you's a Tom!
681
00:28:03,266 --> 00:28:04,558
Tom?
682
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:06,560
I ain't no Peepin' Tom,
what you talking about?
683
00:28:06,561 --> 00:28:08,521
I ain't peeped in
nobody's window.
684
00:28:09,356 --> 00:28:12,442
He told me, "Look, this guy
keeps calling me Uncle Tom,"
685
00:28:12,567 --> 00:28:15,404
and he said, "I don't want my wife
thinking that I'm peeping in windows."
686
00:28:15,487 --> 00:28:16,820
He actually thought
687
00:28:16,821 --> 00:28:18,364
he was calling
him a peeping Tom.
688
00:28:18,365 --> 00:28:20,324
He didn't know what
an Uncle Tom was.
689
00:28:20,325 --> 00:28:21,660
He's the other-type Negro.
690
00:28:21,785 --> 00:28:23,243
He's not like me.
691
00:28:23,244 --> 00:28:26,789
It was damaging to Joe,
692
00:28:26,790 --> 00:28:31,002
and it also made that
demeaning treatment
693
00:28:31,211 --> 00:28:33,212
of a certain kind
of Black person
694
00:28:33,213 --> 00:28:34,881
acceptable,
695
00:28:35,006 --> 00:28:36,508
which it shouldn't have been.
696
00:28:36,633 --> 00:28:37,674
He's a brother.
697
00:28:37,675 --> 00:28:39,427
One day, he might be like me,
698
00:28:39,552 --> 00:28:42,096
but as of now, he
works for the enemy.
699
00:28:42,097 --> 00:28:44,723
Ali had tried to paint Joe
Frazier as an Uncle Tom,
700
00:28:44,724 --> 00:28:47,184
and somebody that wasn't
a part of the solution
701
00:28:47,185 --> 00:28:48,061
for Black people,
702
00:28:48,186 --> 00:28:49,937
but was still part
of the problem.
703
00:28:49,938 --> 00:28:51,773
Why did he insist on
calling me Cassius Clay,
704
00:28:51,898 --> 00:28:53,233
when even the
worst of the whites
705
00:28:53,358 --> 00:28:54,567
recognize Muhammad Ali?
706
00:28:54,693 --> 00:28:55,693
He keeps saying "Clay"!
707
00:28:55,694 --> 00:28:57,444
"He's still Clay,
he gon' stay Clay,
708
00:28:57,445 --> 00:28:59,530
and, to me, he'll
always be Clay."
709
00:28:59,531 --> 00:29:02,533
Joe, for a long time,
did call him Ali.
710
00:29:02,534 --> 00:29:04,076
Uh, Ali made a
statement the other day
711
00:29:04,077 --> 00:29:05,911
that he wants, uh, six million,
712
00:29:05,912 --> 00:29:09,958
It wasn't until Ali
started disrespecting Joe
713
00:29:10,166 --> 00:29:12,584
that Joe started
calling him Clay.
714
00:29:12,585 --> 00:29:15,546
I'm tired of all these
Uncle Tom Negros!
715
00:29:15,547 --> 00:29:17,715
You might be
considered ignorant.
716
00:29:17,716 --> 00:29:20,260
"Uncle Tom" is an
entirely different thing.
717
00:29:20,385 --> 00:29:23,220
It was very hurtful to his kids.
718
00:29:23,221 --> 00:29:24,806
It's understandable
719
00:29:24,931 --> 00:29:28,684
that Joe harbored the
ill will that he did.
720
00:29:28,685 --> 00:29:30,644
You talk from two
sides of your mouth!
721
00:29:30,645 --> 00:29:33,063
One to the white,
and one to the Black!
722
00:29:33,064 --> 00:29:37,401
Many people, as we all know,
rooted for Muhammad Ali openly
723
00:29:37,402 --> 00:29:38,569
because they saw him
724
00:29:38,570 --> 00:29:42,072
as a symbol of the
anti-war movement,
725
00:29:42,073 --> 00:29:44,826
and wrongly, Joe
Frazier was somehow cast
726
00:29:44,951 --> 00:29:46,702
as this darling of the
older white establishment
727
00:29:46,703 --> 00:29:48,287
in the United States.
728
00:29:48,288 --> 00:29:52,666
It's real difficult for
someone to say in public,
729
00:29:52,667 --> 00:29:54,585
"I hate that nigga,
Muhammad Ali,"
730
00:29:54,586 --> 00:29:57,130
so Joe serves the purpose
731
00:29:57,255 --> 00:30:00,758
of camouflaging some
of the racist ideas
732
00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:03,845
of certain individuals.
733
00:30:03,970 --> 00:30:05,472
Now, these people,
they don't give a shit
734
00:30:05,555 --> 00:30:06,597
about Joe Frazier.
735
00:30:06,598 --> 00:30:08,057
The reality is,
736
00:30:08,058 --> 00:30:10,768
they like Joe because
he's fighting Ali.
737
00:30:10,769 --> 00:30:12,811
I was there to get the job done.
738
00:30:12,812 --> 00:30:14,439
I can't let the people down.
739
00:30:14,606 --> 00:30:17,567
Look at me, steady as a rock.
740
00:30:17,692 --> 00:30:20,862
{\an8}To Joe, it was a battle of,
uh... really, of religion.
741
00:30:20,987 --> 00:30:24,698
{\an8}He felt like he was destined
and called for that position.
742
00:30:24,699 --> 00:30:28,119
Every person of note
was at that fight,
743
00:30:28,244 --> 00:30:31,206
whether they were in politics,
entertainment, sports,
744
00:30:31,331 --> 00:30:32,331
you name it.
745
00:30:32,415 --> 00:30:34,166
{\an8}We know it's a big
fight when Frank Sinatra
746
00:30:34,167 --> 00:30:36,335
{\an8}is a photographer at ringside.
747
00:30:36,336 --> 00:30:38,962
{\an8}Yank Durham, his trainer,
told him before the fight,
748
00:30:38,963 --> 00:30:41,715
"You win this fight, your
life's set up forever."
749
00:30:41,716 --> 00:30:43,675
It was truly the
fight of the century.
750
00:30:43,676 --> 00:30:45,469
There hadn't been
a fight like that,
751
00:30:45,470 --> 00:30:47,471
with that much magnitude,
that much interest,
752
00:30:47,472 --> 00:30:48,890
in the history of boxing.
753
00:30:50,433 --> 00:30:52,935
Joe once told me that right
before the fight with Ali,
754
00:30:52,936 --> 00:30:55,522
he was in the dressing room,
and he asked for some privacy,
755
00:30:55,647 --> 00:30:57,231
and he claims somebody
came into the room
756
00:30:57,232 --> 00:30:58,608
and talked to him,
757
00:30:58,733 --> 00:31:00,568
and, uh, he-he went out,
758
00:31:00,694 --> 00:31:02,611
and he was upset with
the security guy,
759
00:31:02,612 --> 00:31:03,946
and he said, "Who was it?"
760
00:31:03,947 --> 00:31:05,406
And the security
guy assured him,
761
00:31:05,407 --> 00:31:07,032
"Nobody's been in that room."
762
00:31:07,033 --> 00:31:10,577
But Joe swore he got a visit
from a man wearing white,
763
00:31:10,578 --> 00:31:13,707
and he told me, he said, he said, "Rich,"
he said, "When I was in that room,"
764
00:31:13,832 --> 00:31:15,250
he said, uh, "God came to me."
765
00:31:15,583 --> 00:31:18,794
He said, you know, like, "God,
can I ask you a question?"
766
00:31:18,795 --> 00:31:20,337
And God said, "Certainly."
767
00:31:20,338 --> 00:31:23,383
He said, uh, "If I kill
this motherfucker tonight,
768
00:31:23,508 --> 00:31:24,717
will you forgive me?"
769
00:31:24,718 --> 00:31:27,177
And he said, "The
Lord said 'yes'."
770
00:31:27,178 --> 00:31:29,179
The undisputed
771
00:31:29,180 --> 00:31:31,433
Heavyweight Championship
of the World.
772
00:31:31,558 --> 00:31:34,644
Muhammad Ali in the red trunks.
773
00:31:34,769 --> 00:31:36,104
Joe Frazier in the green trunks.
774
00:31:36,229 --> 00:31:37,397
They appear very light.
775
00:31:40,025 --> 00:31:43,319
Frazier will try to bore
in and catch this man.
776
00:31:43,445 --> 00:31:47,157
{\an8}I don't think that Muhammad
was ready for the pressure.
777
00:31:47,282 --> 00:31:48,782
Joe keeps coming in!
778
00:31:48,783 --> 00:31:50,118
As he was attacking,
779
00:31:50,243 --> 00:31:52,453
there were many
different nuances,
780
00:31:52,454 --> 00:31:53,747
and all the while,
781
00:31:53,872 --> 00:31:55,457
a big part of it was
the head movement.
782
00:31:58,043 --> 00:32:00,252
Some of the shots
that I hit him with
783
00:32:00,253 --> 00:32:01,963
they would knock down buildings.
784
00:32:03,339 --> 00:32:05,383
Ooh, that must have hurt!
785
00:32:05,508 --> 00:32:07,052
I went back to the corner.
786
00:32:07,469 --> 00:32:09,011
I said, "Yank?"
787
00:32:09,012 --> 00:32:10,929
"What's wrong with this guy, man,
I'm hitting him with all I've got?"
788
00:32:10,930 --> 00:32:12,807
"Just go right back where
you left off from...
789
00:32:13,391 --> 00:32:15,810
Them body shots, he will
fall after a while."
790
00:32:16,519 --> 00:32:19,980
It is new for Muhammad
not to be in control.
791
00:32:19,981 --> 00:32:21,983
If anybody is psyched here,
792
00:32:22,108 --> 00:32:23,942
it is not Joe Frazier.
793
00:32:23,943 --> 00:32:25,070
Look at that hook!
794
00:32:25,195 --> 00:32:27,446
That night, that fight,
Joe was possessed.
795
00:32:27,447 --> 00:32:29,532
Frazier's just laughing at him!
796
00:32:30,617 --> 00:32:33,036
Round 11!
797
00:32:33,161 --> 00:32:34,788
I caught him coming
out of the corner.
798
00:32:35,246 --> 00:32:36,373
He was going to my left.
799
00:32:36,498 --> 00:32:39,084
I caught him with a
hook, on a ricochet.
800
00:32:39,209 --> 00:32:40,292
Boom!
801
00:32:40,293 --> 00:32:41,920
That one hurt, so did that!
802
00:32:44,464 --> 00:32:46,757
If the ropes wasn't there, he
would fall out of the ring.
803
00:32:46,758 --> 00:32:50,053
All right, this is the final round of
the fight, and what a fight it's been!
804
00:32:50,178 --> 00:32:52,721
I throw two left hooks at him.
Second one was on the chin.
805
00:32:52,722 --> 00:32:53,722
Bang!
806
00:32:57,811 --> 00:32:59,186
The 15th-round knockdown?
807
00:32:59,187 --> 00:33:01,272
The coup de grâce, man.
808
00:33:02,982 --> 00:33:04,274
Joe walks away,
809
00:33:04,275 --> 00:33:06,152
and I'm sure he's thinking,
810
00:33:06,277 --> 00:33:09,531
"Am I a goddamn Uncle
Tom now, nigga?"
811
00:33:11,074 --> 00:33:12,325
He said to me once
812
00:33:12,450 --> 00:33:15,829
he didn't realize how
much the correlation was
813
00:33:15,954 --> 00:33:18,163
between him using the left hook
814
00:33:18,164 --> 00:33:19,708
and being his dad's left arm.
815
00:33:20,125 --> 00:33:22,543
My father, you know, he had one
arm, and I was his left-hand man,
816
00:33:22,544 --> 00:33:24,713
so therefore, I learned
to use my left hand more
817
00:33:24,838 --> 00:33:26,547
than I did my right hand.
-Really?
818
00:33:26,548 --> 00:33:28,591
I would go in the woods
819
00:33:28,717 --> 00:33:31,427
and probably pull the saw,
you know anything about that?
820
00:33:31,428 --> 00:33:35,556
The knockdown came from a
signature Joe Frazier move
821
00:33:35,557 --> 00:33:37,850
that nobody in the sport
has ever done better,
822
00:33:37,851 --> 00:33:39,184
and that's a double left hook.
823
00:33:39,185 --> 00:33:41,562
It's the most beautiful timed
824
00:33:41,563 --> 00:33:43,814
work-of-art shot you'll ever see
825
00:33:43,815 --> 00:33:46,066
in the history of boxing,
826
00:33:46,067 --> 00:33:48,569
and Joe didn't get his just due,
827
00:33:48,570 --> 00:33:50,320
because Ali bounced back up.
828
00:33:50,321 --> 00:33:52,741
In any other universe,
829
00:33:52,866 --> 00:33:55,910
that knockdown would
be discussed as,
830
00:33:56,036 --> 00:33:58,412
"Well, Joe Frazier
punctuates a big win
831
00:33:58,413 --> 00:34:01,041
with a knockdown
in the 15th round."
832
00:34:01,166 --> 00:34:02,250
No, the narrative is,
833
00:34:02,375 --> 00:34:04,252
"How did he get
up? It's amazing."
834
00:34:05,503 --> 00:34:07,254
We were sitting
three rows ringside.
835
00:34:07,255 --> 00:34:10,967
Boom! His back didn't even stay.
836
00:34:11,092 --> 00:34:12,634
Just, boom, he just
come right back up
837
00:34:12,635 --> 00:34:14,804
and stood up, and
looked at him like that.
838
00:34:14,929 --> 00:34:17,349
I said, "Okay. Okay."
839
00:34:17,474 --> 00:34:18,933
It's part of the
bigger narrative
840
00:34:19,059 --> 00:34:20,226
that somehow
841
00:34:20,351 --> 00:34:23,062
the achievements of
Joe Frazier overall,
842
00:34:23,063 --> 00:34:24,855
and especially as
it relates to Ali,
843
00:34:24,856 --> 00:34:26,440
kind of get overshadowed.
844
00:34:26,441 --> 00:34:30,236
If I didn't dust him off, he
might have got the decision.
845
00:34:30,612 --> 00:34:32,821
But he got hurt
in the third round
846
00:34:32,822 --> 00:34:33,864
eleventh round
847
00:34:33,865 --> 00:34:35,032
and every round.
848
00:34:35,033 --> 00:34:37,118
Every round he got
hurt, trust me.
849
00:34:37,243 --> 00:34:40,204
It's just hard to surpass
850
00:34:40,205 --> 00:34:43,750
what Muhammad Ali
represents in 1971...
851
00:34:43,958 --> 00:34:45,460
There it is!
852
00:34:47,212 --> 00:34:50,089
...so even though
Joe won the fight,
853
00:34:50,090 --> 00:34:53,967
he's still cast in Ali's shadow.
854
00:34:53,968 --> 00:34:56,887
The winner by
unanimous decision,
855
00:34:56,888 --> 00:35:00,182
Joe Frazier!
856
00:35:00,183 --> 00:35:02,810
Joe just collapses
in Yank's arms,
857
00:35:02,811 --> 00:35:05,146
and he gives him a fatherly hug.
858
00:35:05,271 --> 00:35:07,732
It's a fatherly hug,
not a trainer's hug.
859
00:35:12,237 --> 00:35:15,156
I feel like I did, let's
say, a blessing to the world.
860
00:35:17,075 --> 00:35:18,492
And the action was so good,
861
00:35:18,493 --> 00:35:20,577
I heard two people died of
heart attacks in the arena.
862
00:35:20,578 --> 00:35:22,329
People in Northern Ireland that
were having their troubles,
863
00:35:22,330 --> 00:35:24,165
apparently they stopped fighting
864
00:35:24,499 --> 00:35:26,668
and watched the fight on
the same TV in the bars.
865
00:35:26,793 --> 00:35:28,168
It stopped the world.
866
00:35:28,169 --> 00:35:31,089
One of the things that
people tend to forget
867
00:35:31,214 --> 00:35:33,466
was that Joe won that fight.
868
00:35:33,591 --> 00:35:35,385
{\an8}That was the greatest
fight of all time,
869
00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:37,177
{\an8}and Joe Frazier won that fight.
870
00:35:37,178 --> 00:35:39,764
You think he was clownin'?
He couldn't move!
871
00:35:40,932 --> 00:35:43,017
All them body shots
piling up on him.
872
00:35:43,018 --> 00:35:44,894
{\an8}One, two, three, it adds up.
873
00:35:45,019 --> 00:35:46,228
He would've died
874
00:35:46,229 --> 00:35:48,523
before he allowed
Muhammad Ali to beat him.
875
00:35:48,648 --> 00:35:51,025
I know what the people
would like to know
876
00:35:51,026 --> 00:35:52,818
Why I went to the hospital.
877
00:35:52,819 --> 00:35:56,822
Joe actually had started
to have physical problems
878
00:35:56,823 --> 00:35:58,533
after the Jimmy Ellis fight.
879
00:35:58,658 --> 00:36:01,119
He had issues with
high blood pressure.
880
00:36:01,244 --> 00:36:04,621
I used to go to the doctor
every day after training
881
00:36:04,622 --> 00:36:06,791
make sure that the
blood pressure is right.
882
00:36:09,335 --> 00:36:11,295
I'd take a handful of
pills, you know what I mean?
883
00:36:11,296 --> 00:36:13,088
Hey, babe, what's happening?
884
00:36:13,089 --> 00:36:15,049
What's happening?
885
00:36:15,050 --> 00:36:17,302
The doc wanted to check
me up. He checked me up
886
00:36:17,427 --> 00:36:19,219
and find out that my
blood's a little high.
887
00:36:19,220 --> 00:36:21,013
{\an8}I was with him the whole time.
888
00:36:21,014 --> 00:36:23,390
{\an8}For two, three days,
he was in there.
889
00:36:23,391 --> 00:36:25,642
I was watching his
blood pressure go up
890
00:36:25,643 --> 00:36:26,643
and up and up.
891
00:36:26,644 --> 00:36:29,064
I said if we got
to 300 and some,
892
00:36:29,189 --> 00:36:30,356
he would get a stroke.
893
00:36:30,357 --> 00:36:32,192
Muhammad Ali wins when he loses,
894
00:36:32,317 --> 00:36:33,817
because all the
interviews afterwards,
895
00:36:33,818 --> 00:36:36,403
he's going, "Look at me.
Not a mark on my face.
896
00:36:36,404 --> 00:36:38,280
Joe Frazier's all busted up."
897
00:36:38,281 --> 00:36:41,492
If you look at Frazier's face and
look at mine, there's no comparison.
898
00:36:41,493 --> 00:36:43,953
I'm sure I hit him three
times more than he hit me,
899
00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:45,914
if you watch the film.
900
00:36:46,039 --> 00:36:49,124
Joe got much less enjoyment
from his time as World Champion
901
00:36:49,125 --> 00:36:50,584
than he would have had
902
00:36:50,585 --> 00:36:53,338
if Ali had painted a
different portrait of him.
903
00:36:53,463 --> 00:36:55,172
I feel like I'm
ready to go, man.
904
00:36:55,173 --> 00:36:57,634
I'm trying to get out of
here as fast as I can.
905
00:36:57,759 --> 00:36:58,760
Number one, he's ugly...
906
00:37:00,929 --> 00:37:02,221
It's a shame,
907
00:37:02,222 --> 00:37:06,016
'cause Joe's experience
was far more typical
908
00:37:06,017 --> 00:37:07,644
of the Black
experience in America
909
00:37:07,769 --> 00:37:09,144
than Ali's,
910
00:37:09,145 --> 00:37:11,272
and they should
have been allies,
911
00:37:11,398 --> 00:37:13,315
rather than adversaries.
912
00:37:13,316 --> 00:37:16,820
And who told him he could sing?
913
00:37:16,945 --> 00:37:18,362
He got him a big band,
914
00:37:18,363 --> 00:37:20,489
he started traveling the
world with his new title,
915
00:37:20,490 --> 00:37:22,449
thinking that he's
gonna sell 'em all out.
916
00:37:22,450 --> 00:37:23,952
{\an8}What is there to worry about?
917
00:37:25,286 --> 00:37:27,371
{\an8}The fighting money's good,
the singing money's good.
918
00:37:27,372 --> 00:37:30,000
{\an8}Look, and I can do
both of 'em. You know?
919
00:37:30,166 --> 00:37:31,625
Why should I let it go by?
920
00:37:31,626 --> 00:37:34,378
And I'm having fun
while I'm doing it.
921
00:37:34,379 --> 00:37:35,921
Every time I would
read the paper,
922
00:37:35,922 --> 00:37:37,339
there's a Joe Frazier appearance
923
00:37:37,340 --> 00:37:38,716
in this place in England,
924
00:37:38,717 --> 00:37:41,469
the arena held 10,000,
37 people showed up.
925
00:37:42,554 --> 00:37:44,222
He's going off on
this concert tour,
926
00:37:44,347 --> 00:37:45,598
like, you know?
927
00:37:45,724 --> 00:37:49,435
And that to me is an
indication of, like, you know,
928
00:37:49,436 --> 00:37:52,312
he's not really being
a disciplined soldier
929
00:37:52,313 --> 00:37:54,691
to his craft, man.
930
00:37:57,027 --> 00:37:59,571
♪ Girl, try to remember ♪
931
00:38:01,072 --> 00:38:03,033
♪ We've had issues ♪
932
00:38:03,158 --> 00:38:06,994
♪ We stuck together
Just me and you ♪
933
00:38:06,995 --> 00:38:08,787
A fighter's life is, uh...
934
00:38:08,788 --> 00:38:10,664
is brutal.
935
00:38:10,665 --> 00:38:13,334
He was too courageous to
admit, you know, that, um,
936
00:38:13,335 --> 00:38:17,087
"I'm really not cut out
for this thing right now.
937
00:38:17,088 --> 00:38:18,631
I think I've hit my peak."
938
00:38:18,757 --> 00:38:22,384
Joe Frazier did what he
had to do for the world,
939
00:38:22,385 --> 00:38:25,180
and that was quiet
the butterfly.
940
00:38:25,305 --> 00:38:28,474
After '71, he was the
people's champion,
941
00:38:28,475 --> 00:38:30,977
so he became the partying Joe.
942
00:38:31,102 --> 00:38:33,312
He was with people everywhere,
943
00:38:33,313 --> 00:38:35,565
drinking and having a good time.
944
00:38:35,690 --> 00:38:38,234
He had an eye for
the ladies, always.
945
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,319
He had some of the prettiest
women on the planet.
946
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:41,779
He loved women.
947
00:38:41,780 --> 00:38:43,615
He would go like this,
"Oof, look at that, Bo.
948
00:38:43,740 --> 00:38:45,449
That's an 18-wheeler
over there."
949
00:38:45,450 --> 00:38:47,703
That's what he would say because
she was built in the back.
950
00:38:47,786 --> 00:38:50,705
My dad was a hard working man.
951
00:38:50,830 --> 00:38:52,999
He drove the farm bus
952
00:38:53,249 --> 00:38:56,043
to pick up the
workers in the fields
953
00:38:56,044 --> 00:38:57,378
where they were all ladies.
954
00:38:57,379 --> 00:39:01,007
So Dad had control
of all the females.
955
00:39:02,384 --> 00:39:04,636
Wich Mom didn't like
that, you know, but
956
00:39:05,095 --> 00:39:06,678
that was my daddy.
957
00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:08,515
So when his dad was
running moonshine,
958
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,240
Joe would be in the car, so he
said, "We'd pull up to this place,"
959
00:39:11,351 --> 00:39:14,269
he goes, "And he had me waiting
in the car for friggin' two hours,
960
00:39:14,270 --> 00:39:17,148
so one day, I got out of the car
and I sneaked up the driveway."
961
00:39:17,273 --> 00:39:20,234
He said, "I look in the window, and
I see him kissing a woman and all,
962
00:39:20,235 --> 00:39:22,612
that son of a gun!
So I'd run back,
963
00:39:22,737 --> 00:39:24,405
and I would hide in
the car and wait."
964
00:39:24,406 --> 00:39:28,284
And Rubin'd be gone for an hour or two,
and then when Joe got of a certain age,
965
00:39:28,410 --> 00:39:31,328
he would, he would go in
and chase the daughter.
966
00:39:31,329 --> 00:39:33,497
He said, "So after a while,
967
00:39:33,498 --> 00:39:35,333
I started kissing
the daughters."
968
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:37,334
It's a true story!
969
00:39:37,335 --> 00:39:39,015
He said, "I started
kissing the daughters."
970
00:39:43,341 --> 00:39:48,095
Yank Durham was an
old-line boxing guy,
971
00:39:48,096 --> 00:39:50,890
{\an8}which meant that if you had
the Heavyweight Champion,
972
00:39:51,016 --> 00:39:52,475
{\an8}you'd take easy fights
973
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,853
and pick up whatever
money's available.
974
00:39:55,854 --> 00:39:58,188
Frazier cutting
him to ribbons now!
975
00:39:58,189 --> 00:39:59,523
The title is just,
it's just here.
976
00:39:59,524 --> 00:40:01,567
You know what I
mean? And I have it,
977
00:40:01,568 --> 00:40:03,861
so anybody would like to
try to take it from me,
978
00:40:03,862 --> 00:40:05,779
then these guys gonna
have to challenge me,
979
00:40:05,780 --> 00:40:08,449
and these guys ain't doing
nothin' but making noise.
980
00:40:08,450 --> 00:40:12,536
The boxing organizations
said "enough."
981
00:40:12,537 --> 00:40:16,540
Frazier had to fight the
number-one contender,
982
00:40:16,541 --> 00:40:18,460
who was George Foreman.
983
00:40:22,589 --> 00:40:24,715
George Foreman, back then?
984
00:40:24,716 --> 00:40:26,760
Hoo! Was a beast.
985
00:40:26,885 --> 00:40:28,218
Foreman is fresh and good.
986
00:40:28,219 --> 00:40:30,263
Frazier, since
his bout with Ali,
987
00:40:30,388 --> 00:40:31,598
has only fought twice,
988
00:40:31,723 --> 00:40:33,433
and both of those
opponents were nobodies.
989
00:40:33,558 --> 00:40:35,684
The old bromide that
styles make fights
990
00:40:35,685 --> 00:40:38,646
is never more evident
than in this match.
991
00:40:38,772 --> 00:40:39,981
Well, they're trying
992
00:40:40,106 --> 00:40:41,315
to psych each other out.
993
00:40:41,316 --> 00:40:43,942
{\an8}I expected Joe Frazier
to beat George Foreman.
994
00:40:43,943 --> 00:40:46,780
We may have an
interesting evening.
995
00:40:46,905 --> 00:40:48,823
{\an8}Frazier, quite
understandably the favorite.
996
00:40:48,948 --> 00:40:51,283
When George comes out and
makes that first swing,
997
00:40:51,284 --> 00:40:53,952
that is saying, "Hey, I'm here."
998
00:40:53,953 --> 00:40:57,164
There is no fear
in George Foreman.
999
00:40:57,165 --> 00:40:59,334
That's a lie. He's
terrified of Joe.
1000
00:40:59,626 --> 00:41:01,335
{\an8}The one guy I'd gotten
into the ring with
1001
00:41:01,336 --> 00:41:03,629
{\an8}that I was really frightened
of was Joe Frazier,
1002
00:41:03,630 --> 00:41:05,090
because I'd followed his career.
1003
00:41:05,215 --> 00:41:06,465
I'd seen him stand
up to everybody.
1004
00:41:06,466 --> 00:41:08,385
You hit him hard, he liked it.
1005
00:41:08,510 --> 00:41:11,387
Foreman had this strategy
of pushing Frazier off.
1006
00:41:11,388 --> 00:41:14,099
He was physically
strong enough to do it.
1007
00:41:15,558 --> 00:41:18,685
When George was
pushing Joe away,
1008
00:41:18,686 --> 00:41:20,939
he's upsetting Joe's balance.
1009
00:41:21,064 --> 00:41:24,526
So many times in that fight,
and it didn't last long,
1010
00:41:24,651 --> 00:41:25,902
you'd see a left hook
1011
00:41:26,027 --> 00:41:28,321
4whistle past the head
of Foreman, short.
1012
00:41:28,446 --> 00:41:30,615
I think he hurt Joe Frazier!
1013
00:41:30,740 --> 00:41:33,075
I think Joe is hurt!
1014
00:41:33,076 --> 00:41:36,161
{\an8}We're driving in the car, I said,
"Say, champ, tell me what happened
1015
00:41:36,162 --> 00:41:37,621
{\an8}when you fought George Foreman."
1016
00:41:37,622 --> 00:41:40,208
He said, "He hit me
and my legs shook."
1017
00:41:40,375 --> 00:41:41,501
Frazier's hurt!
1018
00:41:41,626 --> 00:41:42,960
Angie Dundee, Ali's trainer,
1019
00:41:42,961 --> 00:41:45,171
right next to me is saying,
and you may hear him...
1020
00:41:45,296 --> 00:41:46,923
Down goes Frazier!
1021
00:41:47,048 --> 00:41:50,384
Down goes Frazier!
Down goes Frazier!
1022
00:41:50,385 --> 00:41:51,885
"Down goes Frazier!"
1023
00:41:51,886 --> 00:41:53,722
"So I tried everything
I could," he said.
1024
00:41:53,847 --> 00:41:55,557
"The man hit like TNT."
1025
00:41:55,682 --> 00:41:58,475
Foreman is all over Joe Frazier.
1026
00:41:58,476 --> 00:42:01,520
{\an8}Frazier is down again,
and he may be...
1027
00:42:01,521 --> 00:42:03,647
{\an8}oh, he is rising.
1028
00:42:03,648 --> 00:42:05,525
Getting hit on
the chin like that
1029
00:42:05,650 --> 00:42:08,737
is tantamount to having
your... a computer unplugged.
1030
00:42:08,862 --> 00:42:11,572
He was still functional,
but he was like a zombie.
1031
00:42:11,573 --> 00:42:13,824
Two knock-downs
in the first round
1032
00:42:13,825 --> 00:42:15,243
of Joe Frazier.
1033
00:42:15,368 --> 00:42:16,327
Down again!
1034
00:42:16,328 --> 00:42:17,746
Oh, saved by the bell!
1035
00:42:18,997 --> 00:42:21,677
I keep getting up every time he
knocked me down. He got mad one time
1036
00:42:21,875 --> 00:42:23,500
"Joe, why don't you stay down?"
1037
00:42:23,501 --> 00:42:25,461
Frazier's knees buckled.
1038
00:42:25,462 --> 00:42:27,130
He is... oh, he is down!
1039
00:42:27,255 --> 00:42:29,965
He is down for the
fourth time in the fight!
1040
00:42:29,966 --> 00:42:32,844
"Why don't you stay down there, man?
I'm tired of knocking you down."
1041
00:42:33,803 --> 00:42:36,181
{\an8}Foreman had the perfect style
1042
00:42:36,306 --> 00:42:39,516
{\an8}to beat a fighter
of Joe's style.
1043
00:42:39,517 --> 00:42:40,643
He was too big.
1044
00:42:40,769 --> 00:42:42,644
It is over. It is over.
1045
00:42:42,645 --> 00:42:44,104
George Foreman
1046
00:42:44,105 --> 00:42:47,317
is the Heavyweight
Champion of the World!
1047
00:42:47,442 --> 00:42:49,569
They could've fought ten times,
1048
00:42:49,694 --> 00:42:52,404
and George probably
would've won all ten.
1049
00:42:52,405 --> 00:42:53,573
Just one of those things.
1050
00:42:53,698 --> 00:42:55,532
Joe got fogged with a good shot,
1051
00:42:55,533 --> 00:42:57,951
and no fighter, I don't think, no man
would have stood up under that shot.
1052
00:42:57,952 --> 00:42:59,411
Getting up six times
1053
00:42:59,412 --> 00:43:01,080
after being knocked
down six times?
1054
00:43:01,081 --> 00:43:02,415
That's courage, man,
1055
00:43:02,624 --> 00:43:04,291
and we have to
admire that in Joe,
1056
00:43:04,292 --> 00:43:05,751
because he was willing to die.
1057
00:43:05,752 --> 00:43:07,754
You going to seek a rematch?
1058
00:43:07,879 --> 00:43:10,297
Yeah, I would like to fight, or,
you know, get a rematch with him.
1059
00:43:10,298 --> 00:43:13,009
Styles make fights.
1060
00:43:13,134 --> 00:43:15,594
I think styles have
a lot to do with it,
1061
00:43:15,595 --> 00:43:17,764
but then, after he had
beaten Muhammad Ali,
1062
00:43:17,889 --> 00:43:19,807
there was not much
left of Joe Frazier.
1063
00:43:19,808 --> 00:43:21,600
If I had fought him
two years earlier,
1064
00:43:21,601 --> 00:43:23,477
it wouldn't have been like that.
1065
00:43:23,478 --> 00:43:25,188
I didn't fight the
best Joe Frazier.
1066
00:43:25,313 --> 00:43:26,981
Believe me, he wasn't the best.
1067
00:43:27,107 --> 00:43:28,816
What we know now
1068
00:43:28,817 --> 00:43:32,820
is that, uh, Joe had started
to slack off in training.
1069
00:43:32,821 --> 00:43:34,656
Lee Grant was here,
God rest his soul,
1070
00:43:34,781 --> 00:43:36,700
he was Joe's driver
and his dear friend,
1071
00:43:36,825 --> 00:43:39,702
and he said to me, "Bo, don't
listen to a word he said",
1072
00:43:39,703 --> 00:43:42,246
because two weeks before
the George Foreman fight,
1073
00:43:42,247 --> 00:43:44,123
he was hanging
out with this one,
1074
00:43:44,124 --> 00:43:46,167
and that one, you
know what I mean?
1075
00:43:46,292 --> 00:43:48,128
"So he didn't take him serious."
1076
00:43:48,461 --> 00:43:50,212
"Oh, yes, I did!"
1077
00:43:50,213 --> 00:43:51,839
And they started to get into it a
little bit, like with one another.
1078
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:53,716
{\an8}He didn't make any excuses,
1079
00:43:53,717 --> 00:43:55,634
{\an8}and he gave George
all the respect.
1080
00:43:55,635 --> 00:43:56,760
It wasn't no fight.
1081
00:43:56,761 --> 00:43:58,471
The guy just came
and took me out.
1082
00:43:58,596 --> 00:44:00,848
He was much too powerful for me.
1083
00:44:00,849 --> 00:44:03,684
Yeah, "Down goes Frazier!
Down goes Frazier!"
1084
00:44:03,685 --> 00:44:06,520
That was the...
call of the West.
1085
00:44:06,521 --> 00:44:07,771
"Down goes Frazier!"
1086
00:44:07,772 --> 00:44:09,773
I mean, "Hey, come
on. Relax, man.
1087
00:44:09,774 --> 00:44:10,854
That's... that's not cool."
1088
00:44:10,942 --> 00:44:12,192
Joe was a sensitive guy.
1089
00:44:12,193 --> 00:44:14,445
You know, he had feelings
like everybody else.
1090
00:44:14,446 --> 00:44:16,489
Down goes Frazier!
1091
00:44:16,614 --> 00:44:20,076
Down goes Frazier!
Down goes Frazier!
1092
00:44:20,201 --> 00:44:22,161
Sad news from the
world of sport.
1093
00:44:22,162 --> 00:44:25,247
Yank Durham, long-time
trainer and manager
1094
00:44:25,248 --> 00:44:28,960
of former World Heavyweight
Champion Joe Frazier, has died.
1095
00:44:29,085 --> 00:44:31,420
Durham suffered a
stroke two days ago,
1096
00:44:31,421 --> 00:44:34,841
and passed away this morning
at Temple University Hospital.
1097
00:44:34,966 --> 00:44:37,343
He was 52 years old.
1098
00:44:37,344 --> 00:44:39,970
I really don't know where
to go and what to do now.
1099
00:44:39,971 --> 00:44:42,140
He said that he was
gonna let me know
1100
00:44:42,265 --> 00:44:45,809
when he think it's time
for me to retire, so, uh...
1101
00:44:45,810 --> 00:44:48,854
I'm very relieved that, uh,
1102
00:44:48,855 --> 00:44:50,690
he will come back
and let me know,
1103
00:44:50,815 --> 00:44:52,441
you know, in a dream,
1104
00:44:52,442 --> 00:44:53,902
uh, what to do from here.
1105
00:44:58,907 --> 00:45:00,616
When Yank Durham died,
1106
00:45:00,617 --> 00:45:01,742
it was real easy
1107
00:45:01,743 --> 00:45:04,370
for Eddie Futch
to just slide in.
1108
00:45:04,371 --> 00:45:05,871
There are
1109
00:45:05,872 --> 00:45:07,915
a half dozen trainers
in the sport of boxing
1110
00:45:07,916 --> 00:45:09,667
that reach legendary status.
1111
00:45:09,668 --> 00:45:11,502
Eddie Futch was one
of those people.
1112
00:45:11,503 --> 00:45:14,214
If you couldn't get
along with Eddie Futch,
1113
00:45:14,339 --> 00:45:16,006
you didn't belong in this world.
1114
00:45:16,007 --> 00:45:18,592
He was really,
really a nice guy.
1115
00:45:18,593 --> 00:45:21,888
I would say, as of now,
uh, both of us have lost,
1116
00:45:22,013 --> 00:45:24,431
and now we going
back to each other
1117
00:45:24,432 --> 00:45:26,600
to determine who's the best.
1118
00:45:26,601 --> 00:45:28,685
The second Ali-Frazier fight
1119
00:45:28,686 --> 00:45:30,897
was certainly less
anticipated than the first.
1120
00:45:31,022 --> 00:45:33,315
Neither guy was
champion at the time.
1121
00:45:33,316 --> 00:45:35,317
It was 12 rounds, not 15.
1122
00:45:35,318 --> 00:45:37,611
{\an8}Ali-Frazier II
1123
00:45:37,612 --> 00:45:39,739
{\an8}is sort of like The
Godfather: Part III.
1124
00:45:39,864 --> 00:45:41,448
{\an8}It's easily forgettable.
1125
00:45:41,449 --> 00:45:44,244
That was almost three
years ago, Muhammad,
1126
00:45:44,369 --> 00:45:45,453
and you lost.
1127
00:45:45,578 --> 00:45:47,371
{\an8}White people say I lost.
1128
00:45:47,372 --> 00:45:48,622
{\an8}And that's some white people.
1129
00:45:48,623 --> 00:45:50,917
{\an8}All Black people know I won.
1130
00:45:51,167 --> 00:45:55,004
Ali put all sorts of
very ugly labels on him
1131
00:45:55,005 --> 00:45:58,215
that Joe was never
able to shake.
1132
00:45:58,216 --> 00:46:00,217
When they both got in the studio
1133
00:46:00,218 --> 00:46:01,260
with Howard Cosell,
1134
00:46:01,261 --> 00:46:04,764
and Ali created the
mayhem he created
1135
00:46:04,889 --> 00:46:07,767
playing on Joe's raw emotions,
1136
00:46:07,892 --> 00:46:09,518
that ignited the fight,
1137
00:46:09,519 --> 00:46:11,687
and it ignited the
interest in the fight.
1138
00:46:11,688 --> 00:46:13,106
Stand up, man!
1139
00:46:14,065 --> 00:46:15,524
-Set down, Joe.
-Why you think I'm ignorant?
1140
00:46:15,525 --> 00:46:16,651
-Set down, Joe!
-Huh?
1141
00:46:16,776 --> 00:46:18,237
-Set down.
-Why you think I'm ignorant?
1142
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:19,903
-The brothers are here.
-You in this too?
1143
00:46:19,904 --> 00:46:22,240
Set down quick, Joe!
1144
00:46:23,867 --> 00:46:25,952
It's a great piece
of, uh, television.
1145
00:46:26,077 --> 00:46:28,037
There is no question in my mind
1146
00:46:28,038 --> 00:46:30,414
that Joe Frazier
is not clowning.
1147
00:46:30,415 --> 00:46:33,084
When you hurt somebody
who looked out for you,
1148
00:46:33,418 --> 00:46:36,629
tried to, um, get your
license back for you...
1149
00:46:36,755 --> 00:46:39,173
Come on, brother. Really?
1150
00:46:39,174 --> 00:46:42,010
I would say to Joe, "Joe,
you, you pay him no mind,
1151
00:46:42,135 --> 00:46:44,845
he's just talkin' shit
because that's Ali.
1152
00:46:44,846 --> 00:46:47,056
{\an8}He wants to get your goat."
1153
00:46:47,057 --> 00:46:49,559
{\an8}He says, "I'm gonna get his goat. I'm
gonna get his goat. I'm gonna get his goat.
1154
00:46:49,642 --> 00:46:51,061
{\an8}I'm gonna get his goat."
1155
00:46:51,978 --> 00:46:53,437
The bell for round one,
1156
00:46:53,438 --> 00:46:54,605
{\an8}the action begins.
1157
00:46:54,606 --> 00:46:56,191
The second Ali-Frazier fight,
1158
00:46:56,316 --> 00:46:58,693
{\an8}there was a ghost standing
right next to Joe,
1159
00:46:58,818 --> 00:46:59,818
{\an8}and that ghost
1160
00:46:59,903 --> 00:47:02,613
{\an8}was the person who
was knocked out
1161
00:47:02,614 --> 00:47:04,573
{\an8}at the hands of Big George.
1162
00:47:04,574 --> 00:47:05,659
It's not easy to overcome.
1163
00:47:05,784 --> 00:47:07,661
And that was a good right!
1164
00:47:07,786 --> 00:47:08,578
Joe was staggered there.
1165
00:47:08,579 --> 00:47:10,664
Ali shook Joe.
1166
00:47:10,789 --> 00:47:13,792
Referee Tony Perez
thought he heard the bell.
1167
00:47:14,167 --> 00:47:16,543
Referee Tony Perez
separates the fighters,
1168
00:47:16,544 --> 00:47:19,755
calls for the end of the round,
but I didn't hear a bell.
1169
00:47:19,756 --> 00:47:20,840
Then the fight resumed,
1170
00:47:20,965 --> 00:47:22,674
and there was talk afterwards
1171
00:47:22,675 --> 00:47:24,426
that Ali would've
knocked Joe out
1172
00:47:24,427 --> 00:47:26,721
if Perez hadn't
made that mistake.
1173
00:47:26,846 --> 00:47:28,639
No, I mean, let's
do the numbers,
1174
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,725
41 rounds of boxing,
1175
00:47:30,850 --> 00:47:34,020
and Ali never knocked Joe down.
1176
00:47:34,688 --> 00:47:40,526
The problem was that we were trying to
find a referee to break up that mugging
1177
00:47:40,527 --> 00:47:42,320
around my neck
with his left hand.
1178
00:47:43,571 --> 00:47:44,739
The fight is about to end,
1179
00:47:44,864 --> 00:47:46,532
and it is over!
1180
00:47:46,533 --> 00:47:49,577
Muhammad Ali has won the fight
1181
00:47:49,703 --> 00:47:51,245
on a unanimous decision!
1182
00:47:51,246 --> 00:47:53,372
{\an8}I don't think that
was that far off.
1183
00:47:53,373 --> 00:47:54,708
{\an8}You know what I mean?
1184
00:47:54,874 --> 00:47:56,709
{\an8}I would say I fought.
1185
00:47:56,710 --> 00:47:58,335
{\an8}I throw a more
effective punch anyway,
1186
00:47:58,336 --> 00:48:02,172
{\an8}so I, I got no
argument about nothin'.
1187
00:48:02,173 --> 00:48:04,592
{\an8}You ever hear Joe
Frazier crying?
1188
00:48:04,718 --> 00:48:06,385
{\an8}Stand-up guy.
1189
00:48:06,386 --> 00:48:07,429
George was the champ,
1190
00:48:07,554 --> 00:48:09,514
so Ali-Frazier II
1191
00:48:09,639 --> 00:48:12,266
was more for bragging rights
1192
00:48:12,267 --> 00:48:14,769
and the right to fight
George Foreman next.
1193
00:48:14,894 --> 00:48:16,438
George Foreman was just...
1194
00:48:16,563 --> 00:48:19,733
it's hard to convey to people
just how he was demolishing
1195
00:48:19,858 --> 00:48:22,068
individuals who got
in the ring with him.
1196
00:48:22,193 --> 00:48:25,947
Both Joe Frazier and
Ken Norton beat Ali,
1197
00:48:26,072 --> 00:48:29,742
and George Foreman
barely broke a sweat.
1198
00:48:29,743 --> 00:48:31,702
When I fought Muhammad
Ali in Africa,
1199
00:48:31,703 --> 00:48:34,581
fear had all just disintegrated.
1200
00:48:34,706 --> 00:48:37,083
I had no longer any
fear for anything.
1201
00:48:37,333 --> 00:48:39,335
This was gonna be the
easiest fight of my life.
1202
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:45,507
When Joe Frazier
fought Muhammad Ali
1203
00:48:45,508 --> 00:48:46,593
in Madison Square Garden,
1204
00:48:46,718 --> 00:48:47,969
he would've died
1205
00:48:48,094 --> 00:48:50,429
before he allowed
Muhammad Ali to beat him.
1206
00:48:50,430 --> 00:48:52,639
When I fought Muhammad
Ali in Africa,
1207
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,976
I fought a Joe
Frazier reincarnate.
1208
00:48:55,685 --> 00:48:57,805
I thought George was gonna
catch him a little earlier.
1209
00:48:58,021 --> 00:48:59,688
The guys that fought Muhammad
1210
00:48:59,689 --> 00:49:00,981
they let him have his way.
1211
00:49:00,982 --> 00:49:02,275
Let him move when he wanted
1212
00:49:02,859 --> 00:49:03,693
throw punched when he wanted.
1213
00:49:03,693 --> 00:49:04,693
No.
1214
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:06,320
No.
1215
00:49:10,075 --> 00:49:12,951
And so while Ali has
regained the mountaintop,
1216
00:49:12,952 --> 00:49:15,954
Joe is almost, I
think, forgotten,
1217
00:49:15,955 --> 00:49:17,457
but you have their rivalry.
1218
00:49:17,624 --> 00:49:18,791
It's mythical.
1219
00:49:18,792 --> 00:49:21,127
It's... it's literary.
It's cinematic.
1220
00:49:21,252 --> 00:49:22,252
Joe Frazier had kind of
1221
00:49:22,253 --> 00:49:23,921
rehabilitated
himself a little bit.
1222
00:49:23,922 --> 00:49:25,631
{\an8}He beat Quarry. He beat Ellis.
1223
00:49:25,632 --> 00:49:27,341
That got Frazier back
1224
00:49:27,342 --> 00:49:30,427
in a position where they could
sell the third Ali fight.
1225
00:49:30,428 --> 00:49:33,473
These two men and their
styles were so compelling...
1226
00:49:34,516 --> 00:49:36,309
...that people had in
the back of their mind,
1227
00:49:36,434 --> 00:49:39,479
"Wow, this is still something
we should pay attention to."
1228
00:49:39,604 --> 00:49:40,980
Without Joe Frazier,
1229
00:49:40,981 --> 00:49:43,900
there wouldn't have been no Ali.
1230
00:49:49,572 --> 00:49:52,033
Imagine if, after winning
the Rumble in the Jungle,
1231
00:49:52,158 --> 00:49:53,534
Ali says, "I'm done."
1232
00:49:53,535 --> 00:49:55,244
That's a perfect narrative,
1233
00:49:55,245 --> 00:49:57,039
but, you know, life doesn't
really work that way,
1234
00:49:57,122 --> 00:50:00,000
so Ali-Frazier one more time.
1235
00:50:00,291 --> 00:50:02,043
Here's the way he
looks when you hit him.
1236
00:50:02,168 --> 00:50:03,962
Come on, gorilla! We in Manila!
1237
00:50:06,297 --> 00:50:08,717
{\an8}Ali's treatment of Joe Frazier,
1238
00:50:08,842 --> 00:50:10,884
{\an8}the demeaning portrayal of Joe,
1239
00:50:10,885 --> 00:50:13,011
hurt a lot more people than Joe.
1240
00:50:13,012 --> 00:50:14,014
It involved
1241
00:50:14,139 --> 00:50:16,306
a lot of unfortunate comments
1242
00:50:16,307 --> 00:50:19,101
around his appearance,
his intelligence...
1243
00:50:19,102 --> 00:50:22,730
the sort of thing that
racist white people
1244
00:50:22,731 --> 00:50:24,899
would say perhaps in private
1245
00:50:25,025 --> 00:50:27,027
about a Black person,
1246
00:50:27,152 --> 00:50:28,402
Ali's saying in public.
1247
00:50:28,403 --> 00:50:29,987
I'm gon' keep this
gorilla with me
1248
00:50:29,988 --> 00:50:31,698
every day until the fight.
1249
00:50:31,823 --> 00:50:34,534
It reinforced
1250
00:50:34,659 --> 00:50:39,288
the stereotypical view
that some people had
1251
00:50:39,289 --> 00:50:41,166
of Black people,
1252
00:50:41,333 --> 00:50:43,793
slow-moving, shuffling...
1253
00:50:49,382 --> 00:50:52,593
This is indeed a
proud moment for me
1254
00:50:52,594 --> 00:50:55,346
{\an8}to welcome the people of the
world to the saga of our lifetime,
1255
00:50:55,347 --> 00:50:57,098
{\an8}Superfight III,
1256
00:50:57,223 --> 00:50:58,600
{\an8}the Thrilla in Manila.
1257
00:50:58,725 --> 00:51:01,643
The Marcoses, who
ran the Philippines,
1258
00:51:01,644 --> 00:51:02,936
knew nothing about boxing.
1259
00:51:02,937 --> 00:51:06,065
They wanted Ali
specifically in a big fight,
1260
00:51:06,066 --> 00:51:08,692
because they had a big problem
1261
00:51:08,693 --> 00:51:13,281
with the Muslims in Mindanao,
1262
00:51:13,406 --> 00:51:16,158
and they felt that they
could calm everything down
1263
00:51:16,159 --> 00:51:19,870
if they brought over this
great Muslim to fight
1264
00:51:19,871 --> 00:51:21,414
in the Philippines.
1265
00:51:21,539 --> 00:51:23,708
The fighter that they
wanted him to fight
1266
00:51:23,875 --> 00:51:25,085
was Joe Frazier.
1267
00:51:25,210 --> 00:51:27,128
Muhammad stayed at the palace
1268
00:51:27,253 --> 00:51:28,879
and I stayed at the hotel.
1269
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,257
I wasn't into politics, no.
1270
00:51:31,675 --> 00:51:32,967
I was into sports
1271
00:51:33,093 --> 00:51:35,345
being a champion and
getting the job done.
1272
00:51:36,012 --> 00:51:37,012
And here's Joe Frazier
1273
00:51:37,013 --> 00:51:38,430
coming into the ring.
1274
00:51:38,431 --> 00:51:41,433
The feeling was
that Joe was shot,
1275
00:51:41,434 --> 00:51:44,520
that Ali'll dance around
for eight, nine rounds,
1276
00:51:44,521 --> 00:51:45,521
knock Joe out,
1277
00:51:45,605 --> 00:51:47,315
and will go on to
the next fight.
1278
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,318
It's 15 rounds, and
here is round one!
1279
00:51:50,443 --> 00:51:51,652
The Thrilla in Manila
1280
00:51:51,653 --> 00:51:52,903
{\an8}was a fight in three parts.
1281
00:51:52,904 --> 00:51:55,531
The first part of the fight,
it looked for all the world
1282
00:51:55,532 --> 00:51:58,660
like Ali was exposing Joe
1283
00:51:58,785 --> 00:52:01,454
as a fighter who just
had lost his ability
1284
00:52:01,579 --> 00:52:04,499
to fight in the upper echelon
of the Heavyweight Division.
1285
00:52:04,624 --> 00:52:07,794
Muhammad was handling Joe for
three rounds, four rounds...
1286
00:52:09,087 --> 00:52:11,131
...and then, all
of a sudden, boom!
1287
00:52:12,590 --> 00:52:15,634
I don't think I've ever
seen a sporting event
1288
00:52:15,635 --> 00:52:17,469
{\an8}turn as dramatically
1289
00:52:17,470 --> 00:52:19,639
{\an8}as that fight turned
in those middle rounds.
1290
00:52:19,764 --> 00:52:21,141
Frazier is very strong!
1291
00:52:24,602 --> 00:52:31,526
Joe came into that fight
fueled by absolute hatred.
1292
00:52:31,651 --> 00:52:33,193
Ali took more punishment
1293
00:52:33,194 --> 00:52:36,280
than I think anybody would
ever be able to take.
1294
00:52:36,281 --> 00:52:39,326
Joe Frazier landed
hellacious shots,
1295
00:52:39,451 --> 00:52:40,827
and somehow Ali withstood them.
1296
00:52:43,288 --> 00:52:44,663
All of a sudden, the
fight turned again,
1297
00:52:44,664 --> 00:52:47,250
because Joe Frazier
just ran out of gas.
1298
00:52:48,501 --> 00:52:50,627
And Ali is scoring on him.
1299
00:52:50,628 --> 00:52:52,338
He had vision
problems in both eyes,
1300
00:52:52,464 --> 00:52:55,550
and Ali, as exhausted as he was,
1301
00:52:55,675 --> 00:53:00,096
was able to summon up the energy
to land those straight shots
1302
00:53:00,221 --> 00:53:02,056
as Frazier was coming in,
1303
00:53:02,057 --> 00:53:05,392
and the Frazier head movement was less
than it had been earlier in the fight.
1304
00:53:05,393 --> 00:53:07,394
13th round, Joe can't
see out of his left eye.
1305
00:53:07,395 --> 00:53:10,690
{\an8}Muhammad was trying to
cement, you know, the victory,
1306
00:53:10,815 --> 00:53:13,193
throws a right hand...
1307
00:53:13,318 --> 00:53:15,904
Joe's mouthpiece goes flying.
1308
00:53:19,991 --> 00:53:21,618
Essentially, it's
target practice.
1309
00:53:22,911 --> 00:53:24,328
There's a moment in the corner
1310
00:53:24,329 --> 00:53:26,205
where Joe drinks the water
1311
00:53:26,206 --> 00:53:28,041
and spits the water out,
1312
00:53:28,166 --> 00:53:31,461
and the water is completely red.
1313
00:53:33,338 --> 00:53:35,005
It's not water
anymore, it's blood.
1314
00:53:35,006 --> 00:53:38,051
Eddie Futch had
let the fight go on
1315
00:53:38,176 --> 00:53:39,552
after the 13th round
1316
00:53:39,677 --> 00:53:42,221
{\an8}in the hope that
things might change.
1317
00:53:42,222 --> 00:53:43,222
They didn't.
1318
00:53:47,060 --> 00:53:48,436
Frazier is hurt.
1319
00:53:48,561 --> 00:53:51,898
He was getting hit again
and again and again.
1320
00:53:56,194 --> 00:53:59,029
After the 14th round,
1321
00:53:59,030 --> 00:54:01,992
Ali and Joe went back
to their corners.
1322
00:54:05,245 --> 00:54:09,040
Both men had been... brutalized.
1323
00:54:09,207 --> 00:54:11,166
Uh, Joe was getting hit
1324
00:54:11,167 --> 00:54:13,336
by punches that he
couldn't see coming.
1325
00:54:14,546 --> 00:54:16,089
My right eye got closed
1326
00:54:16,214 --> 00:54:18,382
the left eye I
couldn't see out of.
1327
00:54:18,383 --> 00:54:22,386
The doctor comes up
and looks at Frazier.
1328
00:54:22,387 --> 00:54:24,430
I think it's gonna be over!
1329
00:54:24,431 --> 00:54:29,143
In the most difficult
moment to stop a fight,
1330
00:54:29,144 --> 00:54:32,438
on the biggest stage
you could possibly have,
1331
00:54:32,439 --> 00:54:35,108
Eddie Futch had the
courage of his convictions
1332
00:54:35,233 --> 00:54:36,608
to realize Joe was in trouble
1333
00:54:36,609 --> 00:54:40,280
and in danger of
being hurt, badly.
1334
00:54:41,072 --> 00:54:43,115
He said, "Now let's call
it." "I told him, "No."
1335
00:54:43,116 --> 00:54:44,868
He said, "No, wait
a minute now."
1336
00:54:45,910 --> 00:54:47,912
"Don't do my job."
I said, "All right."
1337
00:54:49,456 --> 00:54:51,583
It's all over!
1338
00:54:53,293 --> 00:54:55,754
One can't stand up
1339
00:54:55,879 --> 00:54:57,672
and one can't see.
1340
00:54:57,797 --> 00:55:01,092
I heard that Muhammad wasn't
going to get up off the stool
1341
00:55:01,468 --> 00:55:03,970
but that's not my corner
1342
00:55:04,095 --> 00:55:05,930
and I wasn't over
there to see that.
1343
00:55:09,184 --> 00:55:10,185
Whew.
1344
00:55:10,310 --> 00:55:12,519
Oh, my god.
1345
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,314
That's a supremely
human moment, man.
1346
00:55:15,315 --> 00:55:18,443
We can see the child in Joe.
1347
00:55:20,278 --> 00:55:23,280
We can see the lover in Joe,
1348
00:55:23,281 --> 00:55:25,658
the beast in Joe,
1349
00:55:25,659 --> 00:55:29,204
and we can see the human
hurt animal in Joe.
1350
00:55:33,833 --> 00:55:35,626
Eddie Futch called the fight
1351
00:55:35,627 --> 00:55:39,129
because he just couldn't see
Joe Frazier continuing on.
1352
00:55:39,130 --> 00:55:41,383
While it wasn't popular
with Joe Frazier,
1353
00:55:41,508 --> 00:55:42,676
and Joe had difficulty with it,
1354
00:55:42,759 --> 00:55:44,843
Eddie Futch, he
never felt regret,
1355
00:55:44,844 --> 00:55:46,845
because he knew it was
the right decision.
1356
00:55:46,846 --> 00:55:48,431
I'm not mad about it
1357
00:55:49,015 --> 00:55:50,225
because I can see
1358
00:55:50,934 --> 00:55:53,561
I can walk, I can talk,
I can have a good time.
1359
00:55:53,686 --> 00:55:55,854
That night, Marvis
was in Manila.
1360
00:55:55,855 --> 00:55:58,358
{\an8}Muhammad called Marvis
into his dressing room,
1361
00:55:58,483 --> 00:56:02,027
{\an8}and when Marvis got the
apology from Muhammad,
1362
00:56:02,028 --> 00:56:03,612
"Tell your dad he's
a great champion
1363
00:56:03,613 --> 00:56:04,988
and a great man,
1364
00:56:04,989 --> 00:56:06,198
and I said everything I said
1365
00:56:06,199 --> 00:56:07,866
just to promote these
incredible fights,"
1366
00:56:07,867 --> 00:56:09,947
Marvis came running back
into his dad's dressing room
1367
00:56:10,036 --> 00:56:10,870
to tell him,
1368
00:56:10,996 --> 00:56:11,830
and Joe lost it,
1369
00:56:11,831 --> 00:56:14,374
and said, "You ain't
Joe Frazier, son.
1370
00:56:14,582 --> 00:56:16,918
Why ain't he apologize to me?"
1371
00:56:17,043 --> 00:56:18,752
But he is great.
1372
00:56:18,753 --> 00:56:21,798
I don't know no
other fighter today
1373
00:56:21,923 --> 00:56:24,133
besides myself
1374
00:56:24,134 --> 00:56:26,051
who can beat Joe Frazier.
1375
00:56:26,052 --> 00:56:28,178
Going beyond the result,
1376
00:56:28,179 --> 00:56:31,391
which says "KO-14"
in the record book,
1377
00:56:31,516 --> 00:56:33,017
you could almost
look at that fight,
1378
00:56:33,018 --> 00:56:34,728
on some very primal level,
1379
00:56:34,853 --> 00:56:35,729
as a draw.
1380
00:56:35,730 --> 00:56:41,024
I don't think there
were any... winners.
1381
00:56:41,025 --> 00:56:42,860
It was the bull and the matador.
1382
00:56:42,861 --> 00:56:45,905
It was... everything
anybody could ever want
1383
00:56:46,031 --> 00:56:47,573
in a combat.
1384
00:56:47,574 --> 00:56:50,410
These guys were
made for each other.
1385
00:56:50,535 --> 00:56:51,827
You look at Manila,
1386
00:56:51,828 --> 00:56:53,413
and it's an advertisement
1387
00:56:53,538 --> 00:56:56,791
for everything that's
best about boxing,
1388
00:56:57,083 --> 00:56:59,753
and also for everything
that's worst about boxing.
1389
00:56:59,878 --> 00:57:05,924
They both left everything
in that 20-foot ring.
1390
00:57:05,925 --> 00:57:06,801
Going forward,
1391
00:57:06,802 --> 00:57:10,012
life for Ali, life
for Joe Frazier
1392
00:57:10,013 --> 00:57:11,263
will never be the same.
1393
00:57:11,264 --> 00:57:14,100
They're beyond their prime.
1394
00:57:14,225 --> 00:57:16,226
It's not going to be glamorous
1395
00:57:16,227 --> 00:57:18,187
and celebratory
1396
00:57:18,188 --> 00:57:19,772
and spectacular.
1397
00:57:19,773 --> 00:57:22,692
They end that fight
as two old men.
1398
00:57:30,492 --> 00:57:32,451
{\an8}Joe fought Foreman again.
1399
00:57:32,452 --> 00:57:35,121
{\an8}They didn't even sell
all the tickets there.
1400
00:57:35,246 --> 00:57:37,374
Look what he's done!
1401
00:57:37,582 --> 00:57:40,668
{\an8}He's shaved his head!
1402
00:57:40,794 --> 00:57:42,753
{\an8}"Champ, what happened
in the second fight?"
1403
00:57:42,754 --> 00:57:45,298
{\an8}He says, "The second fight,
I trained to kill him."
1404
00:57:45,423 --> 00:57:47,341
I said, "Smoke, I'm telling you,
1405
00:57:47,342 --> 00:57:50,595
when I watched you fight him,
your midsection was thicker."
1406
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,348
"No, Bo, my weight was right."
I said, "Smoke, listen."
1407
00:57:53,473 --> 00:57:59,770
Joe Frazier weighed in at
a surprising 224.5 pounds,
1408
00:57:59,771 --> 00:58:03,273
eight and a half more pounds
than he's ever carried.
1409
00:58:03,274 --> 00:58:06,528
My working is always forward.
1410
00:58:06,653 --> 00:58:09,863
I don't know how to back up. That's
the only way I know how to fight.
1411
00:58:09,864 --> 00:58:11,532
{\an8}"Then, when I
stepped in the ring,
1412
00:58:11,533 --> 00:58:15,494
I looked at him,
and I backed up."
1413
00:58:15,495 --> 00:58:17,496
Joe Frazier never
backs up in a fight.
1414
00:58:17,497 --> 00:58:18,665
He said, "On that
particular night,
1415
00:58:18,748 --> 00:58:20,458
I was backing up, waiting,
1416
00:58:20,750 --> 00:58:22,586
'cause I didn't want to
get hit with them punches."
1417
00:58:22,669 --> 00:58:24,170
Frazier against the ropes.
1418
00:58:25,672 --> 00:58:29,299
Foreman was
absolutely devastating
1419
00:58:29,300 --> 00:58:32,803
when he fought a smaller guy.
1420
00:58:32,804 --> 00:58:34,431
I was blind in this eye here.
1421
00:58:35,140 --> 00:58:36,975
I wear two contact lenses now.
1422
00:58:37,434 --> 00:58:38,810
I tried to move for a while
1423
00:58:38,935 --> 00:58:41,021
Frazier, trying to fight back.
1424
00:58:41,521 --> 00:58:43,106
But then he knocked
the lens out.
1425
00:58:43,898 --> 00:58:45,357
{\an8}I knew what Joe
was going through
1426
00:58:45,358 --> 00:58:46,650
{\an8}when he was fighting
with one eye,
1427
00:58:46,651 --> 00:58:48,485
{\an8}why he stayed so close to him.
1428
00:58:48,486 --> 00:58:51,448
I know how Joe Frazier
passes eye tests, too.
1429
00:58:51,573 --> 00:58:53,490
He's the one who told
me how to pass it.
1430
00:58:53,491 --> 00:58:56,036
One right hurts Frazier.
1431
00:58:56,161 --> 00:58:58,079
Frazier! Frazier's down!
1432
00:58:59,873 --> 00:59:03,000
Frazier is down from a right!
1433
00:59:03,001 --> 00:59:06,170
He said, "You don't switch
eyes, you switch hands."
1434
00:59:06,171 --> 00:59:08,340
I would cover with this hand,
1435
00:59:08,465 --> 00:59:09,715
then when you say,
'switch eyes, '
1436
00:59:09,716 --> 00:59:11,593
I would switch hands,
1437
00:59:11,718 --> 00:59:13,969
"and the doctor would
never say nothin'."
1438
00:59:13,970 --> 00:59:16,346
Frazier taking it
from George Foreman!
1439
00:59:16,347 --> 00:59:17,556
Foreman kno...
1440
00:59:17,557 --> 00:59:19,434
Foreman again with the right!
1441
00:59:19,559 --> 00:59:22,312
The second knockdown
in the round.
1442
00:59:24,064 --> 00:59:26,524
The only thing I did wrong was
sign that contract two times.
1443
00:59:28,735 --> 00:59:30,736
That was the wrong
thing I did, okay?
1444
00:59:30,737 --> 00:59:34,156
Harold Valan says
the fight is over!
1445
00:59:34,157 --> 00:59:36,241
Frazier as game as ever,
1446
00:59:36,242 --> 00:59:38,035
but now, inevitably,
1447
00:59:38,036 --> 00:59:42,248
the boxing career
over for Joe Frazier.
1448
00:59:42,499 --> 00:59:45,209
Joe Frazier would
want to be remembered
1449
00:59:45,210 --> 00:59:47,087
{\an8}as a great World Champion,
1450
00:59:47,212 --> 00:59:49,296
{\an8}the people's champion.
He loved people.
1451
00:59:49,297 --> 00:59:50,589
{\an8}His heart
1452
00:59:50,590 --> 00:59:53,635
was as big as the
Empire State Building.
1453
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,303
I'm pleased with,
with Joe Frazier,
1454
00:59:56,304 --> 00:59:57,514
and I'm pleased with the public,
1455
00:59:57,597 --> 00:59:59,556
and pleased with the plan,
1456
00:59:59,557 --> 01:00:02,267
and, uh, I think,
1457
01:00:02,268 --> 01:00:05,814
for the consideration that
you have for me, uh...
1458
01:00:05,939 --> 01:00:08,482
I think that it's time for
me to put it on the wall,
1459
01:00:08,483 --> 01:00:11,403
and go ahead and just
boogie, boogie, boogie.
1460
01:00:27,252 --> 01:00:28,961
In 1978,
1461
01:00:28,962 --> 01:00:31,464
{\an8}I would've been a
junior in college,
1462
01:00:31,589 --> 01:00:34,342
{\an8}in a small school in
Northeastern Pennsylvania,
1463
01:00:34,467 --> 01:00:38,179
and Joe was singing at a lounge
in Scranton, Pennsylvania,
1464
01:00:38,304 --> 01:00:40,389
so, uh, of course, all
my friends were like,
1465
01:00:40,390 --> 01:00:42,099
"Are you kidding me?
Yes, we're coming,"
1466
01:00:42,100 --> 01:00:43,851
and that commercial
had just come out,
1467
01:00:43,852 --> 01:00:45,269
the Miller Lite commercial.
1468
01:00:45,270 --> 01:00:48,481
♪ When you order a beer
Do like Smokin' Joe ♪
1469
01:00:48,606 --> 01:00:50,025
{\an8}♪ Order Lite beer from Miller ♪
1470
01:00:50,150 --> 01:00:51,776
{\an8}♪ And say no more ♪
1471
01:00:51,901 --> 01:00:53,986
Joe starts singing
a couple songs,
1472
01:00:53,987 --> 01:00:56,322
and I guess during a
break, somebody yells out,
1473
01:00:56,448 --> 01:00:57,532
"Do the Miller Lite commercial!"
1474
01:00:57,615 --> 01:00:58,991
And he goes, "All right."
1475
01:00:58,992 --> 01:01:00,659
♪ 'Cause Lite's less filling ♪
1476
01:01:00,660 --> 01:01:03,662
♪ Hey, that really
knocks me out! ♪
1477
01:01:03,663 --> 01:01:06,250
Before the end of the night, he probably
sang that Miller Lite commercial,
1478
01:01:06,333 --> 01:01:08,043
like, 15 times...
1479
01:01:09,711 --> 01:01:11,545
...and then sat down with
all my college buddies,
1480
01:01:11,546 --> 01:01:13,673
and drank beer with us
the rest of the night,
1481
01:01:13,798 --> 01:01:15,299
and we'd go, "Joe, sing
that commercial again."
1482
01:01:15,300 --> 01:01:17,426
♪ Lite tastes great ♪
1483
01:01:17,427 --> 01:01:19,721
And he'd sing the commercial, and he
made my friends that night, you know,
1484
01:01:19,804 --> 01:01:23,183
feel that if they were friends of mine,
they were friends of Joe Frazier's,
1485
01:01:23,308 --> 01:01:25,351
and, uh, that's why I loved him.
1486
01:01:28,730 --> 01:01:30,565
In the early 1980s,
1487
01:01:30,690 --> 01:01:32,858
{\an8}I got to work with
Smokin' Joe Frazier
1488
01:01:32,859 --> 01:01:35,152
{\an8}as a Knockout singer,
1489
01:01:35,153 --> 01:01:36,737
{\an8}and it was a real thrill.
1490
01:01:36,738 --> 01:01:38,698
I'm still riding on a cloud.
1491
01:01:40,158 --> 01:01:42,201
I know a lot of
people used to say,
1492
01:01:42,202 --> 01:01:43,494
"Oh, Joe can't sing,"
1493
01:01:43,495 --> 01:01:45,579
but when you went to the show,
1494
01:01:45,580 --> 01:01:48,499
and saw that this man
was really singing,
1495
01:01:48,500 --> 01:01:51,211
and he was really
expressing himself
1496
01:01:51,336 --> 01:01:52,379
through his lyrics,
1497
01:01:52,504 --> 01:01:55,715
you could feel his expression,
1498
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:57,633
that he was taking
you from the gym,
1499
01:01:57,634 --> 01:02:00,177
taking you from when
he was growing up,
1500
01:02:00,178 --> 01:02:03,555
taking you from now,
performing the song.
1501
01:02:03,556 --> 01:02:06,016
He was, like,
telling you a story
1502
01:02:06,017 --> 01:02:08,728
of what he did
throughout his life.
1503
01:02:08,853 --> 01:02:10,063
You could see
1504
01:02:10,188 --> 01:02:12,607
that it's just something
that touched his soul,
1505
01:02:12,732 --> 01:02:15,818
and he wanted others
to feel the same way...
1506
01:02:15,819 --> 01:02:18,947
touch the soul of
you, and you, and you,
1507
01:02:19,072 --> 01:02:21,825
that meant so much to him.
1508
01:02:21,950 --> 01:02:23,784
White America always
thought Joe Frazier
1509
01:02:23,785 --> 01:02:26,663
was this blue-collar working man,
but, man, he was the king of swag.
1510
01:02:26,788 --> 01:02:29,833
He was way more swag
than Ali ever was.
1511
01:02:30,208 --> 01:02:32,127
When he comes in,
the room shines up,
1512
01:02:32,252 --> 01:02:34,628
electricity just start
spreading everywhere.
1513
01:02:34,629 --> 01:02:36,673
It was always about
the best suits,
1514
01:02:36,798 --> 01:02:38,799
and the colors that
popped, and the gold chain,
1515
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:40,510
and the gold ring,
1516
01:02:40,635 --> 01:02:41,635
and that hat
1517
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:43,303
that nobody could
sport like Smokin' Joe,
1518
01:02:43,304 --> 01:02:46,266
and a big wad of cash,
always down in his sock,
1519
01:02:46,391 --> 01:02:47,641
sometimes both his socks,
1520
01:02:47,642 --> 01:02:49,893
and he took a lot
of pride in that.
1521
01:02:49,894 --> 01:02:53,772
If you are a star,
you shine everywhere.
1522
01:02:53,773 --> 01:02:55,899
There was a benefit
in Atlantic City.
1523
01:02:55,900 --> 01:02:57,527
Joe Frazier and the Knockouts
1524
01:02:57,652 --> 01:03:00,446
were gonna come on right
after my wife and her sister,
1525
01:03:00,447 --> 01:03:01,781
the Rocco Sisters,
1526
01:03:01,906 --> 01:03:04,491
and Connie was coming
down some stairs,
1527
01:03:04,492 --> 01:03:08,079
and she had one of those combs
that had, like, a tip on the end
1528
01:03:08,204 --> 01:03:10,623
that you would tease your hair
with, so it was very sharp,
1529
01:03:10,832 --> 01:03:13,917
and her heel caught
on one of the stairs.
1530
01:03:13,918 --> 01:03:15,962
She lunged forward,
1531
01:03:16,087 --> 01:03:19,007
and stabbed Joe
Frazier in the stomach.
1532
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:22,760
He went down to one knee,
1533
01:03:22,761 --> 01:03:25,472
and uttered this
immortal line...
1534
01:03:25,597 --> 01:03:27,140
"The bitch stabbed me!"
1535
01:03:28,975 --> 01:03:34,188
And so security rushed
in, and, of course,
1536
01:03:34,189 --> 01:03:36,024
she was horrified, and
everyone was horrified,
1537
01:03:36,149 --> 01:03:37,775
but they had to
run out on stage,
1538
01:03:37,776 --> 01:03:40,028
so she ran out on
stage after the...
1539
01:03:40,153 --> 01:03:41,905
...after the incident.
1540
01:03:42,030 --> 01:03:43,614
You can't make that up.
1541
01:03:43,615 --> 01:03:45,658
It's 4:30 in the morning,
1542
01:03:45,659 --> 01:03:48,118
{\an8}and former Heavyweight
Champion Smokin' Joe Frazier
1543
01:03:48,119 --> 01:03:50,330
is running through the
frigid streets of Chicago
1544
01:03:50,455 --> 01:03:52,582
on what he hopes will
be his comeback trail.
1545
01:03:52,749 --> 01:03:55,377
Not bad for an old man, huh?
1546
01:03:55,502 --> 01:03:58,046
When fighters well past their
prime continue fighting,
1547
01:03:58,171 --> 01:04:01,382
{\an8}like Ali did with Berbick,
1548
01:04:01,383 --> 01:04:03,467
what Joe did with Cummings,
1549
01:04:03,468 --> 01:04:04,969
they can say whatever they want,
1550
01:04:05,095 --> 01:04:07,888
it's pride, they still have
it, they want to feel young...
1551
01:04:07,889 --> 01:04:10,474
there's only one
word why it happened,
1552
01:04:10,475 --> 01:04:12,976
and that word is "money."
1553
01:04:12,977 --> 01:04:15,355
He's coming out of
retirement after five years
1554
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:16,898
{\an8}to fight Jumbo Cummings,
1555
01:04:17,023 --> 01:04:18,400
{\an8}a relatively unknown 30-year-old
1556
01:04:18,525 --> 01:04:20,901
who spent 12 of those
years in prison for murder.
1557
01:04:20,902 --> 01:04:23,195
Joe with Jumbo Cummings,
1558
01:04:23,196 --> 01:04:25,364
{\an8}and Muhammad with
Trevor Berbick,
1559
01:04:25,365 --> 01:04:29,660
{\an8}they were fights that should
not have been sanctioned,
1560
01:04:29,661 --> 01:04:31,203
but in boxing, that's allowed.
1561
01:04:31,204 --> 01:04:32,538
Why is that?
1562
01:04:32,539 --> 01:04:34,915
But, you know, I
get it. I get it.
1563
01:04:34,916 --> 01:04:38,378
But I, um... I don't get it.
1564
01:04:43,133 --> 01:04:45,342
Removed from Manila
by six years,
1565
01:04:45,343 --> 01:04:46,636
it just demonstrated
1566
01:04:46,761 --> 01:04:50,013
how much that fight took
out of each of them as well.
1567
01:04:50,014 --> 01:04:52,767
Happy ending, you knew that
wasn't going to happen.
1568
01:04:52,892 --> 01:04:54,686
The decision, a draw!
1569
01:04:59,899 --> 01:05:03,610
{\an8}It's hard for an athlete
to leave the game
1570
01:05:03,611 --> 01:05:04,904
when they're on top.
1571
01:05:05,030 --> 01:05:06,613
I got a chance to go down
1572
01:05:06,614 --> 01:05:08,533
as the greatest
athlete, not boxer,
1573
01:05:08,658 --> 01:05:09,576
in the history.
1574
01:05:09,701 --> 01:05:12,619
I can make so many people wrong.
1575
01:05:12,620 --> 01:05:14,247
Obviously, it didn't
work out well.
1576
01:05:14,372 --> 01:05:17,500
It-it just was not a good
evening, on every level.
1577
01:05:18,668 --> 01:05:22,422
No, no! Oh, no!
1578
01:05:22,547 --> 01:05:25,049
Ali, Frazier, in
terms of their career,
1579
01:05:25,050 --> 01:05:28,678
their life as professional
boxers is over,
1580
01:05:28,803 --> 01:05:32,598
and there's nothing spectacular
or glamorous about it.
1581
01:05:32,599 --> 01:05:36,519
Life sometimes is not
kind, but it's always real.
1582
01:05:51,201 --> 01:05:53,786
Joe definitely lived his life
1583
01:05:53,787 --> 01:05:55,412
on North Broad
Street at that gym,
1584
01:05:55,413 --> 01:05:57,582
and, you know, people
could walk in there
1585
01:05:57,791 --> 01:05:59,083
every day and say hello.
1586
01:05:59,084 --> 01:06:01,585
{\an8}Joe bought the gym
after the Foreman fight.
1587
01:06:01,586 --> 01:06:03,463
{\an8}It was $87,000.
1588
01:06:07,926 --> 01:06:10,804
{\an8}It looked like some of the movies I'd watch
on TV, street life, it's North Philadelphia,
1589
01:06:10,887 --> 01:06:12,305
ghetto.
1590
01:06:12,430 --> 01:06:14,870
When I walked in, I just thought,
"This is what greatness is."
1591
01:06:15,016 --> 01:06:17,185
I sit down and teach these guys.
1592
01:06:17,310 --> 01:06:20,063
I'm not gonna be afraid to go and
tell them what's wrong with it.
1593
01:06:20,188 --> 01:06:21,188
'Cause I've been there.
1594
01:06:21,189 --> 01:06:22,481
And Joe came, was, "Hey, hey,
1595
01:06:22,482 --> 01:06:25,275
you gotta put more weight
on your left leg, Tim."
1596
01:06:25,276 --> 01:06:28,028
{\an8}Putting the weight in
between my knee and my ankle,
1597
01:06:28,029 --> 01:06:30,281
{\an8}putting it down there,
and then turn, bam!
1598
01:06:30,407 --> 01:06:33,200
So my left hook, he taught
me how to do that, yeah.
1599
01:06:33,201 --> 01:06:34,743
Take the room away
from him, Mark!
1600
01:06:34,744 --> 01:06:35,953
Goddamn breathe on him!
1601
01:06:35,954 --> 01:06:39,040
{\an8}On the top of the gym
was a roof, a rooftop,
1602
01:06:39,207 --> 01:06:41,208
{\an8}so he decided that, uh,
1603
01:06:41,209 --> 01:06:44,713
{\an8}he was gonna turn that rooftop
into a bachelor's loft.
1604
01:06:44,838 --> 01:06:47,506
When you walked in
Joe Frazier's office,
1605
01:06:47,507 --> 01:06:49,008
he had a great big desk.
1606
01:06:49,009 --> 01:06:50,801
He would call his back
office "The Dungeon."
1607
01:06:50,802 --> 01:06:52,469
He had a little refrigerator.
1608
01:06:52,470 --> 01:06:54,054
We had liquor back there.
1609
01:06:54,055 --> 01:06:56,932
Then he would lift his, his
couch up, like Godzilla,
1610
01:06:56,933 --> 01:06:58,225
and, just picked it up,
1611
01:06:58,226 --> 01:07:00,520
and he had all these guns
piled on top of each other.
1612
01:07:00,645 --> 01:07:02,355
The second story was
just a big warehouse,
1613
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:04,858
and at the back of that was
a dormitory for fighters.
1614
01:07:04,983 --> 01:07:06,692
It had no hot water.
1615
01:07:06,693 --> 01:07:08,527
The opposite side
of the steel door
1616
01:07:08,528 --> 01:07:09,570
was crack addicts.
1617
01:07:09,571 --> 01:07:12,031
And we put six beds in
the back of the gym,
1618
01:07:12,032 --> 01:07:13,699
a heater, and a kitchen.
1619
01:07:13,700 --> 01:07:16,577
And then, it's cold water,
and, you know, it was drafty,
1620
01:07:16,578 --> 01:07:19,738
which I was fine with, 'cause it was, it
was really... it made you fight harder.
1621
01:07:22,042 --> 01:07:24,251
{\an8}When Joe comes into the
gym, first thing he does
1622
01:07:24,252 --> 01:07:26,962
{\an8}is walk up them steps, go
to his music, hit play,
1623
01:07:26,963 --> 01:07:28,672
come back downstairs,
and, "Let's work."
1624
01:07:28,673 --> 01:07:32,384
Joe Frazier had the
Fighting Fraziers,
1625
01:07:32,385 --> 01:07:36,139
and he just put everything
he could in his fighters.
1626
01:07:36,264 --> 01:07:37,723
They couldn't be him,
1627
01:07:37,724 --> 01:07:40,477
but they all wanted
to be like him.
1628
01:07:41,102 --> 01:07:42,102
What time is it?
1629
01:07:42,187 --> 01:07:43,063
It's fightin' time!
1630
01:07:43,188 --> 01:07:44,731
What time is it?
1631
01:07:44,856 --> 01:07:45,898
It's KO time!
1632
01:07:45,899 --> 01:07:49,319
Come on! Let's go! Let's go!
1633
01:07:52,572 --> 01:07:55,074
Marvis Frazier had a
good amateur record,
1634
01:07:55,075 --> 01:07:57,117
and Marvis Frazier was
a very tough fighter.
1635
01:07:57,118 --> 01:07:58,328
The referee,
1636
01:07:58,453 --> 01:08:00,746
the only man who
can stop the fight.
1637
01:08:00,747 --> 01:08:02,874
Round one!
1638
01:08:03,124 --> 01:08:05,417
Larry Holmes is a
serious fighter.
1639
01:08:05,418 --> 01:08:08,295
And here's Marvis,
with the hands down!
1640
01:08:08,296 --> 01:08:11,465
Marvis got a little cocky,
and he dropped his hands.
1641
01:08:11,466 --> 01:08:13,634
That could be a big mistake!
1642
01:08:13,635 --> 01:08:16,220
Marvis Frazier's career
probably got accelerated,
1643
01:08:16,221 --> 01:08:18,890
maybe because of
the-the opportunities
1644
01:08:19,015 --> 01:08:20,224
for money fights,
1645
01:08:20,225 --> 01:08:22,519
partially because of who he was.
1646
01:08:26,606 --> 01:08:27,773
When Marvis gets hit,
1647
01:08:27,774 --> 01:08:29,651
you could see in Joe's eyes
1648
01:08:29,776 --> 01:08:32,111
how he was hurtin' for his son.
1649
01:08:32,112 --> 01:08:35,490
Had to be very difficult for Joe Frazier to
experience that, you know, in the corner.
1650
01:08:35,615 --> 01:08:38,618
I think they pushed
Marvis a little too fast,
1651
01:08:38,743 --> 01:08:41,121
'cause it was easy,
it was fun for Larry.
1652
01:08:41,246 --> 01:08:42,122
Larry just was playing,
1653
01:08:42,123 --> 01:08:43,163
like, he was playing,
1654
01:08:43,164 --> 01:08:45,375
and, to me, that
was embarrassing.
1655
01:08:46,668 --> 01:08:49,294
Joe loved Marvis.
They were so close.
1656
01:08:49,295 --> 01:08:50,587
I would wait,
1657
01:08:50,588 --> 01:08:52,798
"My name is Marvis
Frazier. My dad is Joe."
1658
01:08:52,799 --> 01:08:56,343
Try to build it up a little bit more,
and maybe they could've got two million,
1659
01:08:56,344 --> 01:08:59,471
but they did it, and
this is the result, so...
1660
01:08:59,472 --> 01:09:01,349
But that's the name of the game
1661
01:09:02,100 --> 01:09:03,100
win.
1662
01:09:04,310 --> 01:09:05,769
Tyson comes out slugging.
1663
01:09:05,770 --> 01:09:09,399
He comes out smoking,
like Marvis's father, Joe.
1664
01:09:09,524 --> 01:09:11,942
They said Marvis tried to
fight like Joe Frazier,
1665
01:09:11,943 --> 01:09:13,152
"Joe's not a good trainer
1666
01:09:13,153 --> 01:09:14,696
'cause he trains
everybody this way,"
1667
01:09:14,821 --> 01:09:16,406
and Joe's answer was,
1668
01:09:16,531 --> 01:09:19,211
"You better be able to fight like
Joe Frazier if you wanna make it."
1669
01:09:20,618 --> 01:09:23,454
Uppercut, and Marvis is hurt.
1670
01:09:23,455 --> 01:09:25,080
Yeah, he's hurt. He's down.
1671
01:09:25,081 --> 01:09:26,958
I don't think Marvis
ever disappointed Joe,
1672
01:09:27,125 --> 01:09:28,542
even in the fights he lost.
1673
01:09:28,543 --> 01:09:30,627
You know, Joe was
super proud of him.
1674
01:09:30,628 --> 01:09:33,630
When you saw Marvis
Frazier with his father,
1675
01:09:33,631 --> 01:09:37,385
there was such
respect and admiration
1676
01:09:37,510 --> 01:09:41,055
and love from
Marvis towards Joe.
1677
01:09:41,056 --> 01:09:44,558
It was something
very, very special.
1678
01:09:44,559 --> 01:09:48,063
So what I know about Marvis,
when he had his two big fights,
1679
01:09:48,188 --> 01:09:49,814
Larry and Mike Tyson,
1680
01:09:49,939 --> 01:09:51,565
Joe, the way he told me was,
1681
01:09:51,566 --> 01:09:53,401
it was to kinda help
the Fraziers out
1682
01:09:53,526 --> 01:09:55,695
and get a little
love, M-O-N-E-Y,
1683
01:09:55,820 --> 01:09:56,696
in his pocket.
1684
01:09:56,697 --> 01:10:00,574
He was just in the
process of a divorce.
1685
01:10:00,575 --> 01:10:03,410
He was in the
process of moving out
1686
01:10:03,411 --> 01:10:05,580
of the mansion that he had,
1687
01:10:05,705 --> 01:10:07,957
you know, the house that he
had with his wife, Florence.
1688
01:10:08,249 --> 01:10:10,085
Joe loved his family.
1689
01:10:10,210 --> 01:10:11,961
You know, you're with
somebody for so long,
1690
01:10:12,087 --> 01:10:13,670
you kinda fall out
of love. You know?
1691
01:10:13,671 --> 01:10:18,385
Joe had 11 kids, and...
six different mothers.
1692
01:10:18,510 --> 01:10:21,011
Joe and Marvis and those
guys were like this.
1693
01:10:21,012 --> 01:10:23,097
Marvis is a God-fearing,
righteous man,
1694
01:10:23,098 --> 01:10:25,100
almost the polar opposite to Joe
1695
01:10:25,225 --> 01:10:26,684
when it comes to the
party atmosphere.
1696
01:10:26,685 --> 01:10:27,894
He'd just say, "Aw, Pop."
1697
01:10:28,019 --> 01:10:30,271
He'd say, "Pop. Not again, Pop."
1698
01:10:30,397 --> 01:10:31,856
Joe took care of his family.
1699
01:10:31,981 --> 01:10:34,234
He made sure, financially,
1700
01:10:34,359 --> 01:10:36,902
that he lived up
to his obligations
1701
01:10:36,903 --> 01:10:38,654
as a father, as a man.
1702
01:10:38,655 --> 01:10:39,823
Once a month,
1703
01:10:39,948 --> 01:10:42,366
we would sit in the office
and make up envelopes,
1704
01:10:42,367 --> 01:10:44,535
and I've never said
this before to anyone.
1705
01:10:44,536 --> 01:10:47,622
I would personally
hand-deliver the envelopes
1706
01:10:47,747 --> 01:10:50,874
to... different mothers,
1707
01:10:50,875 --> 01:10:53,127
because Joe wanted to
take care of his children.
1708
01:10:53,128 --> 01:10:55,129
You know, any time he
made a bunch of money,
1709
01:10:55,130 --> 01:10:57,756
he would always make sure the kids
are good and his grandkids were good.
1710
01:10:57,757 --> 01:11:02,261
{\an8}If you have 11 kids, that
costs a lot of money,
1711
01:11:02,262 --> 01:11:04,764
and that's gonna drain you,
1712
01:11:04,889 --> 01:11:07,559
no matter how much money
you're able to make.
1713
01:11:07,684 --> 01:11:09,769
Life is conflicting.
Boxing's conflicting.
1714
01:11:09,894 --> 01:11:13,231
{\an8}Having your father as your
trainer is conflicting.
1715
01:11:13,356 --> 01:11:14,356
-Very good!
-Hit! Hit!
1716
01:11:14,441 --> 01:11:15,733
Don't worry 'bout it.
1717
01:11:15,734 --> 01:11:18,902
Joe had five of his
relatives in the gym,
1718
01:11:18,903 --> 01:11:20,404
different weight classes.
1719
01:11:20,405 --> 01:11:22,657
The one that he felt
had the most talent
1720
01:11:22,782 --> 01:11:24,159
was Hector.
1721
01:11:24,284 --> 01:11:26,076
G-Man 'bout to come alive.
1722
01:11:26,077 --> 01:11:27,911
Joe called him "G-Man,"
1723
01:11:27,912 --> 01:11:30,457
and he fought under Joe
Frazier Jr. professionally.
1724
01:11:30,749 --> 01:11:33,835
21-year old Smokin'
Joe Frazier Jr.
1725
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:36,880
No fear at all. He'd grown up
on the streets of New York.
1726
01:11:37,005 --> 01:11:38,006
Hector was the real deal.
1727
01:11:38,131 --> 01:11:39,840
And a big left hook!
1728
01:11:39,841 --> 01:11:41,508
And a straight right
and another left hook!
1729
01:11:41,509 --> 01:11:44,304
Lopez is on the bottom
strand of the ropes,
1730
01:11:44,429 --> 01:11:46,181
and he goes down!
1731
01:11:46,306 --> 01:11:49,266
He was messin' with the wrong people,
and he got involved with substance abuse,
1732
01:11:49,267 --> 01:11:51,353
and his life went
down the wrong road,
1733
01:11:51,478 --> 01:11:53,104
and Joe did not approve at all.
1734
01:11:53,229 --> 01:11:54,438
He, uh...
1735
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:56,775
he would tell him, you know,
"I worked my whole life
1736
01:11:56,900 --> 01:11:58,442
to make this Frazier
name something special,
1737
01:11:58,443 --> 01:12:00,320
and you're fucking it up."
1738
01:12:00,445 --> 01:12:02,613
I might go to bed
saying to myself,
1739
01:12:02,614 --> 01:12:07,117
"What if you do lose?" You know?
1740
01:12:07,118 --> 01:12:09,286
When he got arrested,
that hurt Joe,
1741
01:12:09,287 --> 01:12:11,331
so he ended up going to
jail for a long time.
1742
01:12:11,456 --> 01:12:14,000
That's a setback for you.
1743
01:12:14,167 --> 01:12:15,919
You don't want no setback.
1744
01:12:16,044 --> 01:12:16,961
Joe, I think,
1745
01:12:16,962 --> 01:12:19,630
was way more sensitive
than people realize,
1746
01:12:19,631 --> 01:12:21,465
and it hurt Joe so... so bad.
1747
01:12:21,466 --> 01:12:23,634
Joe used to always say, when
he was hurt, he was like,
1748
01:12:23,635 --> 01:12:24,968
"I just swallowed
a razor blade."
1749
01:12:24,969 --> 01:12:27,471
Hector would call when
he got busted, he said,
1750
01:12:27,472 --> 01:12:30,516
"I'm fighting three and
four times a day, man."
1751
01:12:30,517 --> 01:12:31,851
He said, "They're
challenging me.
1752
01:12:31,976 --> 01:12:34,896
They're challenging me
because I'm Joe Frazier Jr.
1753
01:12:35,021 --> 01:12:36,481
I'm tired."
1754
01:12:36,606 --> 01:12:39,566
And he wanted to
talk to his dad.
1755
01:12:39,567 --> 01:12:41,485
Joe wouldn't talk to
him for a long time.
1756
01:12:41,486 --> 01:12:45,030
He didn't take the phone calls, and that's
because he was swallowing razor blades.
1757
01:12:45,031 --> 01:12:47,284
In the beginning, he would
visit him, and then he stopped.
1758
01:12:47,367 --> 01:12:50,202
It really took a toll on Joe,
1759
01:12:50,203 --> 01:12:54,124
and it... it broke
him, uh, as a father.
1760
01:12:54,249 --> 01:12:55,874
Hector was his own man, I guess,
1761
01:12:55,875 --> 01:12:57,584
and he made decisions,
1762
01:12:57,585 --> 01:12:59,378
and, "Oh, I had a disease,"
1763
01:12:59,379 --> 01:13:00,713
or whatever it was
1764
01:13:00,714 --> 01:13:02,757
that they're calling
for that kind of life.
1765
01:13:02,882 --> 01:13:04,551
His downfall
1766
01:13:04,676 --> 01:13:07,220
was something that
was the toughest thing
1767
01:13:07,345 --> 01:13:09,388
that I saw him go through
1768
01:13:09,389 --> 01:13:11,098
during my time with him.
1769
01:13:11,099 --> 01:13:12,349
And their relationship
1770
01:13:12,350 --> 01:13:14,268
never got to where
it should've been
1771
01:13:14,269 --> 01:13:16,813
between a father and a son.
1772
01:13:27,949 --> 01:13:30,076
Muhammad Ali apologized to Joe
1773
01:13:30,201 --> 01:13:31,619
in The New York Times,
1774
01:13:31,745 --> 01:13:33,704
and said, "If God called
me into a holy war,
1775
01:13:33,705 --> 01:13:36,166
I'd want Joe Frazier
there right beside me."
1776
01:13:37,917 --> 01:13:39,336
That's what he said about you.
1777
01:13:39,461 --> 01:13:41,381
Yeah, well, he knows I
wasn't going to back down.
1778
01:13:42,172 --> 01:13:43,882
Yeah, that's for sure.
1779
01:13:44,382 --> 01:13:46,134
{\an8}I got so excited,
I called up Joe.
1780
01:13:46,259 --> 01:13:48,135
{\an8}"Champ, I think it's time.
Let's make this happen."
1781
01:13:48,136 --> 01:13:49,553
He goes, "You know what, Prince?
1782
01:13:49,554 --> 01:13:51,473
You tell that son of a bitch,
1783
01:13:51,598 --> 01:13:53,641
why's he gotta speak
to the damn reporter?
1784
01:13:53,767 --> 01:13:55,518
Why can't he do
that to my face?"
1785
01:13:55,643 --> 01:13:57,770
I was like, "Oh, my God."
1786
01:13:57,771 --> 01:13:59,939
There were times when
they'd get together,
1787
01:14:00,065 --> 01:14:01,940
and Joe would be civil,
1788
01:14:01,941 --> 01:14:03,567
but for the most part,
1789
01:14:03,568 --> 01:14:05,153
the hatred was there,
and it remained.
1790
01:14:05,278 --> 01:14:06,820
I put an agent spin on it,
1791
01:14:06,821 --> 01:14:08,614
just said, "It's not
a sincere apology.
1792
01:14:08,615 --> 01:14:10,366
He'd like it to be to his face."
1793
01:14:10,367 --> 01:14:12,494
And then Ali, of
course, came back with,
1794
01:14:12,619 --> 01:14:15,246
"When you see Joe Frazier,
tell him he's still a gorilla."
1795
01:14:15,372 --> 01:14:17,332
I'm gon' keep this
gorilla with me every day
1796
01:14:17,499 --> 01:14:19,292
until the fight.
1797
01:14:19,417 --> 01:14:21,293
His way of saying
who won the fights,
1798
01:14:21,294 --> 01:14:23,462
he would compare his
physical abilities
1799
01:14:23,463 --> 01:14:25,465
to Muhammad.
1800
01:14:25,590 --> 01:14:27,676
Joe Frazier would turn around
and go, "Yo, Bo. Look at him.
1801
01:14:27,759 --> 01:14:29,510
{\an8}He's telling people
he's got Parkinson's.
1802
01:14:29,511 --> 01:14:33,014
{\an8}He don't have Parkinson's.
He's got left-hook-it is."
1803
01:14:38,812 --> 01:14:40,522
I got a call from
Howard Bingham,
1804
01:14:40,647 --> 01:14:43,148
"Hey, I'm with Lonnie,
and we want to know
1805
01:14:43,149 --> 01:14:46,486
if you and Joe and Marvis will
come to Muhammad's suite tonight
1806
01:14:46,611 --> 01:14:47,778
and have dinner with us,"
1807
01:14:47,779 --> 01:14:49,780
so I got to catch up with Joe,
1808
01:14:49,781 --> 01:14:52,200
and I'm nervous as hell,
man, my palms are sweating.
1809
01:14:52,325 --> 01:14:54,993
He looks at me, goes, "All right,
boss man, let's do it. What time?"
1810
01:14:54,994 --> 01:14:55,995
As simple as could be,
1811
01:14:55,996 --> 01:14:59,165
I have chills right now
from saying it, and...
1812
01:14:59,290 --> 01:15:01,166
I'm not gonna start fighting.
1813
01:15:01,167 --> 01:15:03,670
I'll just go over and say
"Hello, man." You know.
1814
01:15:03,795 --> 01:15:06,505
Seven years of non-stop trying
1815
01:15:06,506 --> 01:15:08,424
and pushing and near-misses...
1816
01:15:08,425 --> 01:15:10,843
so we meet and head
over to Ali's hotel,
1817
01:15:10,844 --> 01:15:13,054
and Joe leans down at one point
1818
01:15:13,179 --> 01:15:14,472
to kind of fix his sock...
1819
01:15:14,597 --> 01:15:16,348
he's got a holster
with a gun in it.
1820
01:15:16,349 --> 01:15:19,060
Like, "What the
heck is going on?"
1821
01:15:19,185 --> 01:15:20,561
We get in the hallway.
1822
01:15:20,562 --> 01:15:22,814
We're literally three doors
down from Ali's suite,
1823
01:15:22,939 --> 01:15:25,149
and Marvis starts laughing,
like a little kid.
1824
01:15:25,150 --> 01:15:26,317
He goes, "You really thought
1825
01:15:26,318 --> 01:15:27,860
he was gonna come
here and shoot Ali?"
1826
01:15:27,861 --> 01:15:30,738
And we knock on the
door, and what a moment!
1827
01:15:30,739 --> 01:15:33,157
Joe just kind of
trots over to him.
1828
01:15:33,158 --> 01:15:35,243
Muhammad smiling.
1829
01:15:35,368 --> 01:15:36,827
Joe puts his hand on Ali's leg,
1830
01:15:36,828 --> 01:15:39,372
Ali puts his hand
on Joe's hands.
1831
01:15:39,497 --> 01:15:41,257
Joe goes, "Come on, man.
Let me help you up."
1832
01:15:41,499 --> 01:15:45,420
And Muhammad's shoulder is
just lying on Joe's shoulder,
1833
01:15:45,545 --> 01:15:49,341
with both of them had
tears in their eyes,
1834
01:15:49,466 --> 01:15:53,385
and Lonnie looks at me,
and said, "Hey, Joe."
1835
01:15:53,386 --> 01:15:56,222
She looks over and
says, "Thank you,
1836
01:15:56,347 --> 01:15:58,350
because Muhammad
just found peace."
1837
01:15:59,142 --> 01:16:01,561
He's handicapped, I'll
help him cross the street.
1838
01:16:01,686 --> 01:16:03,228
I'll stop the trucks.
1839
01:16:03,229 --> 01:16:05,398
I want the guy to
enjoy life like me.
1840
01:16:05,523 --> 01:16:08,943
Enjoy some of the
things that he missed.
1841
01:16:09,069 --> 01:16:11,070
{\an8}Joe had a period in
his life where I think
1842
01:16:11,071 --> 01:16:12,781
{\an8}maybe he was drinking
a little too much,
1843
01:16:12,906 --> 01:16:15,909
{\an8}and there was a little
surliness to him.
1844
01:16:16,034 --> 01:16:17,594
{\an8}That wasn't really
the real Joe Frazier.
1845
01:16:18,078 --> 01:16:20,830
I've learned to put
a cover over my mouth
1846
01:16:21,748 --> 01:16:25,460
by saying things
that I shouldn't say.
1847
01:16:25,627 --> 01:16:27,378
A few of them slip out.
1848
01:16:27,379 --> 01:16:29,546
The real Joe Frazier
1849
01:16:29,547 --> 01:16:30,923
was the Joe Frazier
1850
01:16:30,924 --> 01:16:34,094
that took care of everybody
in his neighborhood
1851
01:16:34,219 --> 01:16:36,596
and took care of the
people around him.
1852
01:16:36,721 --> 01:16:39,807
{\an8}There's not too many
celebrities out here
1853
01:16:39,808 --> 01:16:42,309
{\an8}that can be down to earth
like Joe Frazier was.
1854
01:16:42,310 --> 01:16:43,937
He cared.
1855
01:16:44,062 --> 01:16:46,730
If he saw you stranded and
your car was pulled over,
1856
01:16:46,731 --> 01:16:49,442
he got out of his car
and got up under the car
1857
01:16:49,567 --> 01:16:51,277
to see if he could find
out what was wrong.
1858
01:16:51,403 --> 01:16:54,279
And I remember I was 16 years old
when he took me under his wing.
1859
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:57,200
It's just in his DNA to help. You knew
you had somebody covering your back,
1860
01:16:57,283 --> 01:16:59,870
and I don't know any other people
really like that, to that degree.
1861
01:16:59,953 --> 01:17:02,913
I mean, what he did for me is unbelievable.
When Nelson Mandela got out of prison,
1862
01:17:02,914 --> 01:17:04,916
the two people he wanted to meet
1863
01:17:05,125 --> 01:17:06,751
was Joe Frazier
and Muhammad Ali,
1864
01:17:06,876 --> 01:17:09,129
so I'm sitting in
a room with Joe,
1865
01:17:09,254 --> 01:17:11,797
he's thinking, uh, "I
gotta give him something,"
1866
01:17:11,798 --> 01:17:14,800
and on the top of the
dresser was his WBC belt.
1867
01:17:14,801 --> 01:17:16,927
You know, to have a
championship belt,
1868
01:17:16,928 --> 01:17:18,137
that's everything to a boxer,
1869
01:17:18,138 --> 01:17:21,307
and Joe gave him
what was left of him,
1870
01:17:21,433 --> 01:17:27,271
but Nelson Mandela was trippin'
that he got to meet Joe Frazier.
1871
01:17:27,272 --> 01:17:30,190
{\an8}Every time you go into the ring,
1872
01:17:30,191 --> 01:17:33,153
{\an8}you lose a piece of yourself
1873
01:17:33,278 --> 01:17:34,696
you can never get back.
1874
01:17:34,821 --> 01:17:36,823
The question is, how much?
1875
01:17:37,782 --> 01:17:39,283
I was worried about Joe
1876
01:17:39,284 --> 01:17:40,784
as he started to get older.
1877
01:17:40,785 --> 01:17:43,662
His speech was a little slurred,
and his balance was off.
1878
01:17:43,663 --> 01:17:45,414
There's no way, you know,
1879
01:17:45,415 --> 01:17:47,667
he didn't have some
damage from boxing.
1880
01:17:47,792 --> 01:17:49,210
At the end of the day,
1881
01:17:49,336 --> 01:17:52,672
the human body wasn't meant
to be beaten like that.
1882
01:17:52,797 --> 01:17:54,841
They all pay a price, you know.
1883
01:17:54,966 --> 01:17:56,509
Joe is no exception to the rule.
1884
01:17:56,634 --> 01:17:58,218
And I don't think
he was fully intact,
1885
01:17:58,219 --> 01:18:00,429
but I guess it was worth
the price of admission, man.
1886
01:18:00,430 --> 01:18:02,348
He's a legend.
1887
01:18:02,349 --> 01:18:03,725
I'm here talking to you.
1888
01:18:03,850 --> 01:18:05,310
My mind's all together
1889
01:18:05,894 --> 01:18:07,270
my eyes all together
1890
01:18:08,188 --> 01:18:09,356
my brain's all together.
1891
01:18:10,023 --> 01:18:12,692
The fight game,
nothing but the best.
1892
01:18:14,235 --> 01:18:16,862
I couldn't get him for,
like, three, four days,
1893
01:18:16,863 --> 01:18:18,697
so I'm starting to get worried,
1894
01:18:18,698 --> 01:18:20,407
and I knew he
wasn't feeling good,
1895
01:18:20,408 --> 01:18:23,078
but I didn't know
how serious it was,
1896
01:18:23,203 --> 01:18:25,454
so I ended up getting
Denise on the phone,
1897
01:18:25,455 --> 01:18:26,997
and she was taking care of him.
1898
01:18:26,998 --> 01:18:29,709
She goes, "He's really
sick. He's got cancer."
1899
01:18:29,918 --> 01:18:32,169
Lonnie called me
on November 5th,
1900
01:18:32,170 --> 01:18:34,547
I was at Joe's highrise, and
he was already in hospice,
1901
01:18:34,672 --> 01:18:37,007
and Lonnie said, "We
just saw the news.
1902
01:18:37,008 --> 01:18:40,052
This is as bad as I've seen
Muhammad since his mother passed."
1903
01:18:40,053 --> 01:18:42,513
The covers were all the
way pulled up on him.
1904
01:18:42,514 --> 01:18:43,932
I take my phone out,
1905
01:18:44,057 --> 01:18:46,392
and I got a picture
of a woman on there,
1906
01:18:46,393 --> 01:18:47,394
so I clicked on it,
1907
01:18:47,519 --> 01:18:48,727
and I put it to him,
1908
01:18:48,728 --> 01:18:50,562
and I notice that eye
focusing in on it,
1909
01:18:50,563 --> 01:18:52,147
and like this, again,
1910
01:18:52,148 --> 01:18:55,401
"Oof," he goes, "Bo,
that's an 18-wheeler.
1911
01:18:55,402 --> 01:18:57,528
Put that away."
So I put it away.
1912
01:18:57,529 --> 01:19:00,657
He said, "When you
take your last breath,"
1913
01:19:03,368 --> 01:19:05,035
"...Lord, forgive me,"
1914
01:19:05,036 --> 01:19:06,913
He said, "You'll get
right in Heaven."
1915
01:19:07,038 --> 01:19:08,414
That's what he told me.
1916
01:19:08,415 --> 01:19:09,374
That was it.
1917
01:19:09,375 --> 01:19:11,418
We held, I held his hand...
1918
01:19:11,543 --> 01:19:12,584
and then I left,
1919
01:19:12,585 --> 01:19:16,089
and then, like, two
days later, he was gone.
1920
01:19:21,553 --> 01:19:23,638
I was a pallbearer that day,
1921
01:19:23,763 --> 01:19:26,640
along with Sonny Averona
1922
01:19:26,641 --> 01:19:28,225
and Willie "The Worm" Munroe,
1923
01:19:28,226 --> 01:19:29,602
Michael Spinks,
1924
01:19:29,728 --> 01:19:31,937
and some of the Frazier
family, Mark Frazier,
1925
01:19:31,938 --> 01:19:34,606
and I don't know who
was, who was in charge
1926
01:19:34,607 --> 01:19:35,984
of being the pallbearers stuff,
1927
01:19:36,109 --> 01:19:38,360
but my hand was the last
hand that pushed it in,
1928
01:19:38,361 --> 01:19:41,947
you know, "I got your back, man,
'cause I know you'd have my back."
1929
01:19:41,948 --> 01:19:44,784
Muhammad Ali, he wasn't
in great shape himself,
1930
01:19:44,909 --> 01:19:46,493
but he stood basically
the whole time,
1931
01:19:46,494 --> 01:19:48,329
and clapped the whole time,
1932
01:19:48,455 --> 01:19:49,663
with an action and a speed
1933
01:19:49,664 --> 01:19:52,125
that I hadn't seen
Muhammad use in long time.
1934
01:19:52,459 --> 01:19:55,377
They had a special bond,
and you could see it then.
1935
01:19:55,378 --> 01:19:58,465
I wish Joe could've seen
it. Well, maybe he did.
1936
01:20:02,344 --> 01:20:04,679
{\an8}Joe Frazier's one of the
greatest fighters of all time.
1937
01:20:04,804 --> 01:20:07,556
{\an8}There's only a few guys you
can even put in that category.
1938
01:20:07,557 --> 01:20:09,184
He'd go down, he'd get back up.
1939
01:20:09,309 --> 01:20:11,602
Joe Frazier had nothin'
but fight in him.
1940
01:20:11,603 --> 01:20:12,979
To this day,
1941
01:20:13,104 --> 01:20:16,316
it's still, like, man,
this great man passed away.
1942
01:20:16,441 --> 01:20:18,067
I'm not putting the words right,
1943
01:20:18,068 --> 01:20:20,987
{\an8}but he just seemed
like a superman to me.
1944
01:20:25,450 --> 01:20:28,161
The Heavyweight
Champion of the World...
1945
01:20:28,286 --> 01:20:30,205
{\an8}Joe Frazier!
1946
01:20:37,629 --> 01:20:38,838
Round one!
1947
01:20:40,965 --> 01:20:44,177
A superstar, Olympic
gold medalist...
1948
01:20:44,302 --> 01:20:46,845
winning a Heavyweight
Championship back then,
1949
01:20:46,846 --> 01:20:48,640
he's an icon. Absolute icon.
1950
01:20:50,308 --> 01:20:52,727
There were no frills
about Joe Frazier.
1951
01:20:52,852 --> 01:20:54,854
He didn't try to
hide who he was.
1952
01:20:54,979 --> 01:20:57,649
"I'm Joe Frazier,
and I'm gonna be me."
1953
01:20:59,234 --> 01:21:02,820
One of the most unfortunate
things in sports history
1954
01:21:02,821 --> 01:21:05,573
is that Joe Frazier
ended up having to live
1955
01:21:05,699 --> 01:21:08,868
under the shadow
of Muhammad Ali,
1956
01:21:08,993 --> 01:21:11,537
because the Joe Frazier
story on its own
1957
01:21:11,538 --> 01:21:12,747
is so extraordinary
1958
01:21:12,872 --> 01:21:14,958
that it serves as a beacon
1959
01:21:15,083 --> 01:21:18,712
to people who face long odds.
1960
01:21:18,837 --> 01:21:20,714
The crowd is chanting, "Ali!"
1961
01:21:20,839 --> 01:21:22,590
And Joe says, "Come
on out and fight."
1962
01:21:22,716 --> 01:21:23,591
I loved Joe.
1963
01:21:23,592 --> 01:21:26,052
He knew how to get
into your soul.
1964
01:21:26,177 --> 01:21:29,013
He taught me how
to appreciate life.
1965
01:21:29,014 --> 01:21:30,598
We had dinner with
Denzel Washington.
1966
01:21:30,724 --> 01:21:33,101
I saw Lionel Richie
chasing after him.
1967
01:21:33,226 --> 01:21:35,186
Pacino, you know, De Niro,
1968
01:21:35,311 --> 01:21:37,521
Stallone.
1969
01:21:37,522 --> 01:21:40,150
Spielberg came over to us with tears in his
eyes asking if he could get some time with him.
1970
01:21:40,233 --> 01:21:42,860
That always made my heart full,
1971
01:21:42,861 --> 01:21:46,072
because the funny thing was, Joe really
didn't know who any of these people were.
1972
01:21:48,199 --> 01:21:50,909
It's hard to explain what
Joe Frazier's done for me.
1973
01:21:50,910 --> 01:21:54,413
He's made me better father,
made me a better citizen,
1974
01:21:54,414 --> 01:21:56,040
made me a better person.
1975
01:21:56,041 --> 01:21:59,209
I owe a lot to him, and
I'll never forget it.
1976
01:21:59,210 --> 01:22:00,490
Thank you very
much, Joe Frazier.
1977
01:22:00,587 --> 01:22:01,879
Thank you!
1978
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:03,881
What I do, and who I
know, and where I've been,
1979
01:22:03,882 --> 01:22:05,424
is all thanks to Joe Frazier.
1980
01:22:05,425 --> 01:22:08,886
For me, what better
life could you have?
1981
01:22:08,887 --> 01:22:11,555
For him to give me the
chance that he did,
1982
01:22:11,556 --> 01:22:14,224
the people that I met
working with Joe Frazier,
1983
01:22:14,225 --> 01:22:16,185
the places that I got to see,
1984
01:22:16,186 --> 01:22:19,271
the person that I got to
know, who is Joe Frazier,
1985
01:22:19,272 --> 01:22:21,775
to be sitting here
because of Joe Frazier...
1986
01:22:21,900 --> 01:22:23,233
unbelievable.
1987
01:22:23,234 --> 01:22:26,321
I love Joe Frazier
because of what he did.
1988
01:22:26,446 --> 01:22:30,783
From a fighter to a fighter,
he will always have my respect.
1989
01:22:30,784 --> 01:22:35,038
Joe Frazier was a
cornerstone of boxing.
1990
01:22:36,122 --> 01:22:37,749
The fight game has
been good to me.
1991
01:22:37,916 --> 01:22:39,125
I've met a lot of people
1992
01:22:39,584 --> 01:22:40,960
I've been a lot of places
1993
01:22:41,086 --> 01:22:42,545
I've done a lot of things, and
1994
01:22:43,088 --> 01:22:45,799
where would I be if
I wasn't a champion?
1995
01:22:45,924 --> 01:22:47,091
Fightin' is...
1996
01:22:47,092 --> 01:22:48,133
I don't know anyone
1997
01:22:48,134 --> 01:22:49,635
who gets the sheer joy of combat
1998
01:22:49,636 --> 01:22:51,804
the way Joe Frazier does!
1999
01:22:51,805 --> 01:22:53,139
Fightin' is my love.
1999
01:22:54,305 --> 01:23:54,410
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