"Hullenlos - Die Geschichte der Nacktheit" Episode #1.2

1 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:11,960 What is nudity to me? 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,000 I'm trying to undress how 3 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,200 I think of nudity because I realise it has been 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:20,320 taught to me according to my gender, 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,200 my skin colour, my size, my weight. 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,680 What does nudity mean? 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:29,640 Taboo, inflammatory material, 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,040 exposure? 9 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:33,760 Who is allowed to be nude 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:35,520 and why? 11 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,400 Well, the bodies that we are 12 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,400 told are beautiful 13 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,760 are such a narrow part of the diversity of bodies. 14 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:46,600 Liberation or oppression? 15 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,160 How much strength and power is there in nudity? 16 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,720 It was always like the odd one out. I was never as skinny 17 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,320 as anybody. I never looked like anyone around me. 18 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,480 And grew up very religious. 19 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,240 Beauty or shame? 20 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,040 Is skin without a cover a piece 21 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:08,840 of individual freedom? 22 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:12,960 I feel like being so exposed 23 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,000 right from the start 24 00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:19,200 makes me feel very connected to the people here. 25 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,920 The naked body - a historical battlefield. 26 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,240 FOR THOSE BANNED FROM THE POOL WHEN THEY'RE TOPLESS 27 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,120 I think it's really important, as we're so vulnerable, 28 00:01:33,320 --> 00:01:35,240 and naked, to listen to each other. 29 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,520 And I've always found that someone or multiple people 30 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,520 are always saying something that I need to hear in this moment. 31 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:49,074 Watch Online Movies and Series for FREE www.osdb.link/lm 32 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,320 I don't think I would necessarily like to be naked more often, 33 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,120 I think I would like to be freer 34 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,160 in being naked. We also have the pubic hair, 35 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,080 the labia, 36 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,760 that is already completely built into our language. 37 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,760 A feeling of shame is something unpleasant, 38 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,280 it triggers stress in me. When I know 39 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,640 I'm in a setting 40 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,160 where I'm not really allowed to be naked. 41 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,720 I missed the most diverse body shapes. 42 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:31,400 Different skin colours, 43 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:32,800 hair. 44 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,360 I didn't even let my first armpit hair 45 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,760 grow out fully 46 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,360 before I shaved it off completely. 47 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,600 For me, that was also tainted with shame 48 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,760 and was not allowed to exist. 49 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:47,920 And that hurts me. 50 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,680 This is gonna be our shooting space here. 51 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:52,360 Which I lowkey 52 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,520 - tried to prepare already... - We're gonna do stuff here. 53 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:56,840 Yeah. 54 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,000 We have, like, a lot of furniture 55 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,400 we can use. I am planning to work with the table, 56 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,560 I am planning to work with these chairs. 57 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:07,760 My name is Annina Tonkov. 58 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,480 I come from Berlin. I am 28 years old 59 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,880 and I am a psychologist by profession. 60 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,280 I do nude photography 61 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,400 because I like working with people 62 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,320 when they can 63 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,760 take everything off themselves, 64 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,240 so to speak. You can psychologically analyse 65 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,080 or explain many aspects of nudity 66 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,640 and also 67 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,720 work with them. 68 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,400 Mara and Gami are friends. 69 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,640 They don't always feel at home in their bodies. 70 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:47,440 Both are non-binary 71 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,520 and do not see themselves as men or women. 72 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,920 Having their bodies photographed naked is like therapy for them. 73 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,320 When I am nude, it's like I'm a lot more relaxed 74 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,040 in some way. 75 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:04,880 As a non-binary person, I think 76 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,800 that I feel more dysphoria 77 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,840 when I'm wearing certain types of clothes. 78 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,440 Like, especially with my chest. 79 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,560 I feel like there are outfits that I just want to like, 80 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,360 put my boobs on a shelf for a little bit and then 81 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:20,760 put them back on again. 82 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,800 But I found that, like, 83 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,680 when I am nude... they are just kind of there, 84 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,960 they are just, like, a part of my whole body 85 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,240 because everything is exposed, I guess. 86 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:35,960 I just thought 87 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:37,680 that clothes in particular 88 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,720 are a form of gender expression. 89 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,440 Without the clothes, we just feel naked as we are 90 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,840 and don't feel the need 91 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,120 to somehow put our identity 92 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,840 out there because 93 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,040 that's just the way we are as human beings. 94 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,280 No matter whether male, female, non-binary. 95 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,000 I brought a bathing suit 96 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,120 because nudity as such 97 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,120 is not to be understood but only in relation to clothing. 98 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,360 I think being naked 99 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,680 and what it means can be perceived very differently. 100 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:15,720 You have to distinguish 101 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,920 between people who undress themselves and how they feel 102 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:19,960 and what 103 00:05:20,280 --> 00:05:23,080 the view from the outside does to these bodies. 104 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,520 The problem is that we are all 105 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:28,800 always read in a certain way. 106 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:30,800 And we may not like it, 107 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,280 but it's quite difficult to oppose those looks. 108 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,880 The main focus of my research for a very long time 109 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,240 was on things like bias, prejudice, intergroup relations, 110 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,120 which is very important. But it's also very sad, 111 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,520 looking up all the reasons why people are terrible to each other. 112 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:48,600 That's not fun. 113 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,040 So I decided that it was time to start 114 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:52,800 doing research on more enjoyable things. 115 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,720 Things that worked for people, that brought people's spirits up. 116 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,520 And I stumbled into the nudity space. 117 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:01,920 {\an8}So I've observed that many societies 118 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,680 {\an8}have layers of shame around various kinds of behaviour 119 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,000 {\an8}and that shame is a good way of telling who belongs 120 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:08,440 to your society and who doesn't. 121 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,480 Nudity is a social and cultural construction. 122 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,920 Because being naked is objectively a state 123 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:17,920 that doesn't cause shame, it's natural. 124 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,720 So the feeling of shame is learned. 125 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:32,640 I think it's really important 126 00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:36,480 that each person first gets the space to come around. 127 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,480 Most people are totally nervous, 128 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,240 especially when they do it 129 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,320 to confront their own nakedness. 130 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,080 Where does it come from - 131 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,400 shame about one's own naked body? 132 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,120 Is it innate or a concept? 133 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,400 I believe that stories like Adam and Eve are already a piece 134 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,480 of coagulated life experience of humanity. 135 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:02,800 It goes back to the seventh century, 136 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,960 and the first oral versions were certainly even older. 137 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,800 People simply wanted to explain various things about life 138 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,240 to each other. 139 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,440 Why is life so tedious? 140 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,080 Why can births be painful? 141 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,560 Why is shame like that? 142 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,240 And then there is the story of Adam 143 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,800 and Eve and the Fall. 144 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:24,800 Adam and Eve become aware 145 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,640 of their own nakedness 146 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,720 when they are thrown out of paradise 147 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:31,200 and become ashamed. 148 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,000 So you can say that in the Christian tradition, 149 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,600 nakedness and shame 150 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,080 is the start of human history. 151 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,960 - Hello. - Hello. 152 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,200 Nice to see you. OK. 153 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:44,560 Huh? 154 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,240 Yeah. 155 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,680 We're just gonna try this. I have no idea 156 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:50,400 if it makes sense or if it works out. 157 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,640 Like you can first go inside, like, 158 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:54,560 take care that you're, yeah, exactly. 159 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:56,720 If you can't hold it anymore, tell me. 160 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,240 But then something really interesting happens: 161 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,080 the relaxation sets in 162 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,960 when the person realises that they simply have 163 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:09,960 to concentrate on something else. 164 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,400 There is no longer the space 165 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,720 to worry about being naked. 166 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:24,280 I mean, it's just a flute. 167 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,560 And I was so anxious about playing it at first, 168 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,120 but every time I play it around other people, I get less anxious. 169 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,400 And in some ways, that's a nice metaphor 170 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,720 for our own bodies and how we feel about other people seeing them. 171 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,920 And so nakedness comes in or rather, I'd say a certain kind of nakedness, 172 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:41,880 so naturism comes in, 173 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,440 and that's a kind of communal nudity 174 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,880 without necessarily an expectation of sexuality. 175 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:48,760 And then things change. 176 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,120 You have people responding to your naked body, 177 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,160 and you can see other people's naked bodies. 178 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,040 And they're not in magazines, they're not on television, 179 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,240 they're just normal naked people. 180 00:08:58,560 --> 00:09:01,480 You feel a lot less anxious about your own body. 181 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:04,200 I haven't found any evidence that gender is negative 182 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,440 when it comes to the positive effects of nudity in any way. 183 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,800 You can still - yeah, like this, you can still look to me. 184 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,720 At the latest with this Christian myth 185 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,440 of Adam and Eve, it was clear: 186 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:19,280 Eve is something secondary 187 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,960 created from Adam's rib. 188 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,280 This subordination of the woman 189 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,600 means that her nakedness always means something different 190 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,520 to male nakedness. 191 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,400 I think at the end of the day, 192 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,200 it's the old white men who say: 193 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,720 this is OK, and this is not OK. 194 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,080 For me, nudity has to do with power, 195 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,840 that I believe that people 196 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,080 who want to show themselves naked... 197 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,480 should decide what they want to express with it. 198 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:08,040 It has something very, like, Greek 199 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,280 God statue. 200 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,880 Nudity reveals the beauty ideals of every era. 201 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,000 Nudity 202 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,880 in ancient Greece was indeed 203 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:27,720 a special feature. 204 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,080 In this respect, one can say 205 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,360 that ancient Greece normalised nudity 206 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:35,080 in certain areas in public. 207 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,400 It is a special phenomenon, 208 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,120 but at the same time, it resulted in many exclusions. 209 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,640 Because, for example, the ageing body 210 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,240 was something that was not highly valued in ancient Greece. 211 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,440 In Europe, nudity is not forbidden. 212 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,280 However, it is compulsory to cover one's sexual features in public. 213 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,720 Breaking this taboo is provocative. 214 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:09,360 And it draws attention 215 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:12,080 to social grievances. 216 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,680 - It looks super nice. - It looks so good. 217 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,760 Yes, the poster is fab. 218 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,680 I think it's good. But I think "femicide" is better - 219 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,440 But I'll get it on my body. 220 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,360 I'm not embarrassed at all. 221 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,640 And I have never been ashamed. 222 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,640 I always thought nudity was good. 223 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,280 I still like being naked today. 224 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,640 My name is Barbara, I am 68 years old 225 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,520 and I feel very much a feminist. 226 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,920 Nudity as a political tool: 227 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,800 FEMEN call themselves a global women's movement. 228 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,040 Their protest slogans are written on their naked torsos. 229 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,040 Flower wreaths in the hair are reminiscent 230 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,480 of the first FEMEN in Ukraine. 231 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:06,320 Undressing to be heard, 232 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:07,760 to be seen. 233 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,200 {\an8}This is political. The nudity of women. 234 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:16,640 {\an8}I would say 235 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,720 {\an8}since women started to take responsibility for their bodies. 236 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,200 So I connect here 237 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,480 Paula Modersohn Becker with Suzanne Valadon, 238 00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:27,800 both painters at the end of the 19th century. 239 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,120 Valadon was first and foremost a model 240 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,520 for great painters of the late 19th century. 241 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,360 Then she decided to become a painter herself, 242 00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:40,920 so she went from being an object to being a subject. 243 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,240 And as a painter, she wanted to represent herself, 244 00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:45,280 especially topless, to show: 245 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,240 this is my own body that I am showing naked. 246 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:49,720 That's what was fantastic. 247 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:51,840 Nudity has been politicised again and again 248 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,720 in all sorts of directions 249 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,400 for National Socialist fantasies of racial improvement, 250 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,200 through the dropping of bras in the second wave 251 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,120 of the women's movement. 252 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,000 Nudity can take on political functions, 253 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,720 can be politicised. 254 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:09,320 After all, everything is political, 255 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,000 but then that doesn't tell the story. 256 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,440 I think the only people who think things aren't political 257 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,520 are people who are so wonderfully enshrouded 258 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:18,840 their own privilege that they know 259 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,800 no political decision in their lifetime 260 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,320 will ever affect them negatively. 261 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,680 So of course, nudity is political. 262 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:28,360 Choose your fighter. 263 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,480 With you we have so much space and you take the shortest... 264 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,720 Stop violence against women... 265 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,560 We can write, "Women are killed because you don't do your job". 266 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,240 But, really. 267 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,840 In many nude protests, 268 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,120 even if they are women, 269 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,040 we see young, 270 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,120 slim women 271 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,560 who are read as sexy 272 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,800 and who have the possibility of attracting attention, 273 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,840 also in the media. 274 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,840 {\an8}So to speak, the self-dramatisation as sexy 275 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,120 {\an8}is only available to certain women. 276 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,320 {\an8}And that has to do with age 277 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,480 and also classic aesthetic norms. 278 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,520 I have the impression that FEMEN in particular 279 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,120 do not exclude women. 280 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,840 My friend Judith is a bit younger than me, 281 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,280 but she is also a bit more corpulent 282 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,960 and she could also come. And it's not about beauty either. 283 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,600 I've just noticed 284 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,400 that it's always about breasts here, 285 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:39,880 and I don't have a burden 286 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,760 with that at all. I have problems with being so fat. 287 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:44,160 And... 288 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:46,880 that irritates me massively right now. 289 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,040 I'm also the only overweight person here - 290 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,520 everyone else is slim. 291 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:54,680 And yes: 292 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:56,600 it is quite a challenge. 293 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,720 I would like to go home. 294 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,960 So I feel quite brave being here somehow. 295 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,120 Nudity is brutal. 296 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:08,560 Depending on how you... 297 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,680 which form of nudity you choose 298 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,000 and which way you want to go with nudity. 299 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,800 I get different feedback, also from older women: 300 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,120 Do you show your naked breasts? Could it be done differently? 301 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,680 The slogans we have today, 302 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,520 "Women are being killed because you don't do your job!" 303 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,920 "Act now - stop femicide! Act now!" 304 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,600 I have often been called 305 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:49,680 a human trafficker on Twitter, unfortunately. 306 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,920 That's how far ignorance goes! 307 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,000 My name is Paulita Pappel. 308 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:56,320 I always wanted to do porn 309 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,160 but thought it was the tool of the patriarchy 310 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:00,560 to exploit women. 311 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,400 I had this conflict in me, thought something was wrong with me. 312 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,040 Then I came to Berlin, 313 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,600 met sex-positive, feminist, 314 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,000 queer women who did porn 315 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,400 as part of their practice. 316 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,720 And that was the moment when it somehow all made sense 317 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:18,360 and I said, "OK, 318 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,000 I can be a feminist and also do porn". 319 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:24,320 The stricter 320 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,120 the sexual morality of a society, 321 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,720 the more abysmal the double standard. 322 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,000 {\an8}So when in ancient texts, 323 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,960 {\an8}a people describes another people 324 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,080 {\an8}and wants to make them look bad, 325 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,080 {\an8}this is very often done by making them look 326 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,080 morally contemptible as well. 327 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,160 A typical example of this 328 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,280 from the Old Testament is the Whore of Babylon. 329 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,040 The Babylonians then became 330 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,400 the epitome of the wicked, 331 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,240 even though it was a high culture. 332 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,320 These fantasies: Everyone there is naked, 333 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,920 everyone has intercourse with each other 334 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,600 and that Babylon is actually like a huge brothel, 335 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,920 which is of course, culturally not true. 336 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,280 But it was an attempt to make this hostile people 337 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:09,600 look contemptible. 338 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,200 Good. 339 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,360 Paulita stages pornography - 340 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,600 behind and in front of the camera. 341 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,440 She is concerned with freedom and fairness 342 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,120 in nudity and sexuality. 343 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,960 Nudity is something I grew up with 344 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,240 quite freely in my family, on the nudist beach with my parents, 345 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,680 which is unusual for Spain. 346 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,720 I mean, I come from a big city. 347 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,200 Madrid is not a village. 348 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:40,200 And yet, 349 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,040 it's still Catholic, and that's full 350 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,320 of shame and guilt. 351 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,160 I mean, my father grew up thinking, if he masturbated 352 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:50,320 he would go blind. 353 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,560 I was a men's speaker 354 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,040 for a long time, dealing with topics such as men, women and sexuality. 355 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,760 And at some point I noticed how many naked people 356 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,120 there are in our churches. 357 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,400 And that's when I became curious. 358 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,280 The 19th century is really 359 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,360 the century of prudery. 360 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,280 On the one hand, there was the Church, which rejected 361 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,480 everything modern in any way, and was always 362 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:16,560 opposed to it. 363 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,320 That's how the great bourgeois morality 364 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,800 really first emerged. Immanuel Kant, 365 00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:24,200 the supreme enlightener, 366 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,440 himself wrote that masturbation 367 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,720 was even worse than suicide. 368 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,080 I mean it's just very different, no? 369 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:36,760 I feel like a Jackson. 370 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,560 Paulita's goal is equality, 371 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,280 in porn, too. 372 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,240 She is looking for a way to film sex 373 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,360 without erotic clichés. 374 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,440 Nudity is one of them. 375 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,200 For me personally, 376 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,840 nudity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with porn. 377 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,640 My concept of pornography 378 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,480 says a porno 379 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,680 can be totally sexy 380 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,720 and arousing without showing nudity. 381 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,440 I like the emphasis on clothing. I think it also brings out 382 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,000 the power of the nudity, too. 383 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,800 And how clothes kind of wear us and how we wear them 384 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,400 and it really, like, shows the body in different ways. 385 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,760 I think, like, there is almost nothing, like, sexier than that. 386 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,400 No, no, no, no. 387 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,000 The story is, we are in a fashion shoot. 388 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,240 We are three models trying to do the shoot, 389 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,600 and the director is freaking out all the time. 390 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,080 He wants more passion, connection, wants, more, more, more. 391 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,600 Until he leads us to just having sex with each other. 392 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,280 - Perfect. - That's it! 393 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:51,680 Yes. 394 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,360 Sex work and open sexuality - 395 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,200 in ancient times, that was everyday culture. 396 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,520 Pornography in that sense, I think, only emerges 397 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,040 where sexuality 398 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,440 is very strongly restricted 399 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:22,800 as an outlet. 400 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:26,600 In Pompeii, I think that was still a matter of course. 401 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,760 This bourgeois unity of everything, 402 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,120 as we are used to today, 403 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:33,800 simply didn't exist back then. 404 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,400 That's why the geologist there in Pompeii 405 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,000 was so surprised 406 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,680 as obviously 407 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,640 the penis on the wall as a signpost and so on. 408 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,720 That was a normal part of the culture at that time. 409 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,720 And if you want to look at the paintings today, 410 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,440 you have to look for the adult section. 411 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:02,680 Now in a metaphorical sense, 412 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,280 I would say about nakedness, 413 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,360 that it is perhaps a vulnerability, 414 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,520 but that in turn 415 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,040 can be a position of power. 416 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,560 I think it takes courage to be naked or vulnerable. 417 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,520 I think people who are unwilling 418 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,120 to do that are people who are afraid. 419 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,000 And I think someone 420 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,360 who is willing to be vulnerable or naked 421 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:27,840 has power 422 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,000 because there is no fear behind it. 423 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,680 And you know that vulnerability 424 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,320 is part of life and part of being human. 425 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,960 Being sexualised is definitely my issue too. 426 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,760 I find that totally horrible. 427 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,680 For me, one of the fascinations 428 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,600 of nude photography 429 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,480 is to separate the body from sexuality. 430 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,320 And I think that's also 431 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,120 one of the big problems 432 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,800 in our society, that you're quickly reduced 433 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,440 to your body parts 434 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,960 and that's just an incredibly unpleasant feeling. 435 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,000 Just being naked together - 436 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:16,880 is that a state of liberation? 437 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,400 Can shared nudity even be more intimate than sex? 438 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,640 What do you feel more like, a mattress or a table? 439 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:25,880 Ooh! 440 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,960 - Yes, around the table. - Yeah? 441 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,080 It feels, like, very summery and very relaxed in a way. 442 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,960 Like, I haven't felt like, as though these 443 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,120 positions are at all, like, sexual, 444 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,280 it's more like, I think about it from the outside perspective. 445 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,200 Like, I guess you could see it that way. 446 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:54,160 But... 447 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,920 yeah, I think there's, like, a warmth to them 448 00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:00,800 that I think is... like, portrays 449 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,320 that sort of outdoor feel, 450 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,120 I guess, if that's like an embodied thing. 451 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,320 But yeah, not sexual to me. 452 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:11,920 I grew up in Jamaica, 453 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,240 and Jamaicans are typically more conservative 454 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,480 than Europeans, let's say Germans, 455 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:17,960 around nudity. 456 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,520 Jamaicans are very comfortable 457 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,440 with people seeing us in bathing suits, for example. 458 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,320 {\an8}Growing up, I saw a lot of my teachers, my friends, 459 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,280 {\an8}my relatives in bathing suits, in bikinis. That was normal. 460 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,160 In many other countries, that's not normal. 461 00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:34,400 But we don't consider that a level of nudity. 462 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,040 We consider that to be normal attire for a particular situation. 463 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,480 And I point that out to say that cultures go up and down, 464 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,360 that nudity isn't just showing flesh or showing skin. 465 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,480 It's about what's appropriate for a particular time. 466 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,840 And I know personally, some people 467 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,480 in nature spaces, particularly in the UK, 468 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,960 who will repeatedly say that nudity is non-sexual. 469 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,480 It's a very, very, clearly defined tenant 470 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,040 of the things that they believe. 471 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,840 Of course, in other cultures, people strongly disagree. 472 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,680 I think the attempt to simplify it 473 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,600 has led to very, very unhelpful discourse. 474 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,480 And that is important when it comes to nudity because nudity 475 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,040 makes the body visible. 476 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:20,800 So it's also always about certain gaze regimes. 477 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:23,520 Who looks and who is looked at. 478 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,880 I like this a lot. This is very nice. 479 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,760 I like when you look bossy. 480 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,880 As a Black person, I get asked weird questions 481 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,200 about my body all the time. 482 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,120 I think the representation of bodies 483 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,440 in nudity is incredibly important. 484 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,280 Especially at a young age when you're still being taught 485 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:46,720 how you're supposed to be, 486 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,880 how you're supposed to look and act - 487 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,400 it's a question of how 488 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,800 comfortable you are in your skin later in life 489 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,920 and not thinking that it might be wrong to be who you are. 490 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,080 How is nudity read? 491 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,400 Those who look can also be guilty: 492 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,840 for not every naked body is historically the same. 493 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,600 The surface of the skin can be a mirror - 494 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,000 for the relationship between power and powerlessness. 495 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,480 A Black body that is naked 496 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,440 bears history, 497 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,880 a white body, the norm. 498 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,200 So there, the history is invisible. 499 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,480 In this context, the representation of nudity plays 500 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,360 an extremely important role 501 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,720 because we cannot separate 502 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,760 knowledge and power, 503 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,280 and because 504 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,320 history has been inscribed 505 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,600 on the surface of the skin. 506 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,520 Stories that we have to learn to read beyond nudity. 507 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,080 Black people, Black bodies - 508 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,360 a rarity in European painting. 509 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,160 And thus in our history. 510 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:02,440 Natasha Kelly asks why. 511 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,360 This painting Die schlafende Milli inspired her. 512 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,280 The painting was created in 1911 by Ernst Ludwig Kirchner - 513 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,320 at the height of German colonialism. 514 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,400 It captured me. 515 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,000 But it also froze me. 516 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,320 I immediately saw myself reflected in Milli. 517 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,800 So, I saw myself mirrored, actually. 518 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,440 Which is not often the case when it comes to art 519 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,720 or art historical works, 520 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,840 for there to be Black women depicted at all. 521 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,280 And I was then suddenly drawn into my own memories, 522 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,920 what my own nakedness means, 523 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:42,760 what being naked means to me. 524 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,400 {\an8}IS MILLI'S STORY MY STORY? OUR STORY? 525 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,360 {\an8}WHICH STORIES ARE ACTUALLY TOLD? 526 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,560 {\an8}I asked myself the question: Who was Milli? 527 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,520 {\an8}And found out 528 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,800 {\an8}there are very many Millis 529 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,720 and that Milli must have actually been a term of endearment 530 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,760 for Black women at that time. 531 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,560 If we look at the different Millis 532 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,480 only in Kirchner's works, 533 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,840 they all look different, have different body shapes, 534 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,120 different phenotypical characteristics. 535 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,840 It can't have been 536 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,520 the same woman. 537 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,640 But the paintings are all subtitled Milli. 538 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,200 We as Black people were not human enough. 539 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,040 We were not interesting enough 540 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,760 to actually be researched in detail 541 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,800 and in our identity, 542 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,880 which is why 543 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,960 the research is actually lacking. 544 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,920 Every little detail 545 00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:48,480 of paintings by the Brücke artists 546 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,960 have been analysed in detail, 547 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,240 but Black people have not. 548 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,640 Black people in old Europe - 549 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,480 most of them were taken from their homeland, 550 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,360 many of them exhibited: 551 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,000 in human zoos 552 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,120 and so-called freak shows. 553 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,760 Their naked bodies were dissected - 554 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,440 like those of animals. 555 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,120 In her performances, for example, 556 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,120 Sarah Bartmann was forced to present herself to her audience 557 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,920 with her legs wide apart 558 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:28,120 on stage. 559 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,080 And it was also women, not just men, 560 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,800 who really looked between her legs, 561 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,760 examined her, 562 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,680 with the aim of understanding 563 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,280 their own body better. 564 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,120 What I would like to see 565 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:46,920 is that 566 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,160 when it comes to questions of nudity, 567 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,440 things are not so generalised. 568 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,840 That nudity is not automatically 569 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,240 equated with freedom. 570 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,000 In public, 571 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,160 nudity has always been used 572 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,120 to shame, 573 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,880 torture or degrade people. 574 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,040 As a humiliation ritual 575 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,360 in torture, for example. 576 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,640 Because we live in societies where clothing 577 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,440 is the norm, and nudity is abnormal, 578 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,240 so to speak. 579 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,960 So self-empowerment and humiliation: 580 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,600 Both become visible or can become visible in nudity. 581 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,640 It is not only about how we look, 582 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,480 but also about what we have experienced. 583 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,320 So many people 584 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,440 don't relate well to their bodies 585 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,120 because they have experienced violence 586 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,840 or because they have experienced pain. 587 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:03,440 And that is also part of it. 588 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:07,760 Anni is an interview guest 589 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,800 in a floating sauna for the podcast 590 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,400 Splitterfasernackt. 591 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,840 The sauna as a place for intimate conversations - 592 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,320 unclothed. 593 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,120 Actually, it was more a crazy idea 594 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,440 of Lea's and mine, that we sat together 595 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,200 in a public sauna at some point 596 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,960 and had the room all to ourselves and realised 597 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,640 that we hadn't known each other long but we were talking intimately. 598 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,360 We thought that would be a cool social experiment. 599 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,320 It's also such a closed space. 600 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,120 Especially when we record podcasts, we don't do it in public saunas. 601 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,760 That means you know no one else can get in, 602 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,080 and that's how it is. 603 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:53,680 Cosy and safe. 604 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,560 Where are my boundaries of shame? 605 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,200 Good question... 606 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,320 If I know I'm in a room with people 607 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,120 for whom it's OK that I'm naked, 608 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,720 that we're naked, 609 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,440 in the sauna for example, I'm not ashamed 610 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,120 of my naked body. 611 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:20,760 Yes. 612 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,360 A flame! 613 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,760 Welcome to Splitterfasernackt 614 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:28,280 with Anni Tonkov 615 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,520 or Anni Analog. 616 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,440 We've already reached the point where 617 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,000 our guests introduce themselves. 618 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,320 Keywords like "nude" 619 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,280 and "nude photo" are often searched for online. 620 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,920 Nudity attracts the curious 621 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:47,600 and the voyeurs. 622 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,040 How do you find out about your models? 623 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,960 Do they contact you directly? Or there are things like, 624 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,120 you do the shoot and get into conversation. 625 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,680 Do you say you are a psychologist? Or what? 626 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,920 I receive many enquiries from people, 627 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,520 some of whom I have already spoken to 628 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,400 directly about their experiences, 629 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,320 to explain why they are interested 630 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,520 in the shoot with me in the first place. 631 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,080 So you go to a naked event and you 632 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,480 find all the people who are participating in the event 633 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,320 and you measure them, their self esteem, their body image, 634 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,800 their overall life satisfaction before and after, 635 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,840 and you find that it goes up after the event. 636 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,720 And so we know scientifically 637 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,120 that these are effects that are reliable, 638 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,560 that are detectable, are repeatable and that will happen 639 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,560 for varieties of different people 640 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,800 across different places and even different cultures. 641 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,520 So that is quite good. 642 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,080 No one is completely naked in the sauna today 643 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:57,360 because of the camera. 644 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,560 Jutta and Lea have already reaped 645 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,720 a lot of hate comments online for their naked podcast - 646 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,040 even though they are only heard. 647 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,840 Naked in videos - that's too risky for them. 648 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,120 Just because I'm OK in my nakedness 649 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,640 doesn't mean everyone else is, unfortunately. 650 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,160 The idea that someone would somehow 651 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,480 see us completely naked on TV 652 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,080 and then on social media, they'd be hammering away 653 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,080 about how we've lost all their respect 654 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,200 and that we can't be taken seriously anymore, 655 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,920 that no one should ever hire us 656 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,840 or what people would like to do 657 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,040 with our naked bodies. 658 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,640 I'm really not up for that. 659 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,720 So, sexting 660 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,520 and what I call non-consensual porn, because a lot of it 661 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,640 doesn't have anything to do with revenge, it's just 662 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,840 people putting up images of others in a non-consensual way. 663 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,240 We've always, unfortunately, in society had people who would 664 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:58,880 abuse others who would share 665 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:00,600 images non-consensually, 666 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,840 who would share information non-consensually. 667 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,360 And having developed the technology to such an extent, 668 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,280 this is now a new part of it. 669 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,240 {\an8}And it's all the same old worries. Who can you trust? 670 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,960 {\an8}How much do you share? What are you safe doing? 671 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,680 {\an8}But now we have a digital platform that makes it easy to share 672 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,040 a thousand videos a day, 673 00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:20,360 with millions or billions of people 674 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:21,600 with almost no effort, 675 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,360 that now lasts forever 676 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,520 in the cloud and will never go away. 677 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,640 There is chaos at the moment. 678 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,000 The issue here 679 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:31,960 is nudity, as well as other issues. 680 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,680 What do we censor? What are we not censoring? 681 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,760 Especially on social media, 682 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,640 the narrative prevails 683 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,200 that nudity definitely has something to do with sexuality 684 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,960 or eroticism and that therefore 685 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,400 the female nipple must not be shown and that makes me angry. 686 00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:50,040 Because I am the way I am, 687 00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:52,960 I didn't choose to have female nipples, 688 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,440 whatever they are. 689 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,560 And I want them to be allowed 690 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,160 to exist outside 691 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:00,960 of the sexual context. 692 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,800 Stop femicide! 693 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,240 Stop femicide! 694 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,920 That's exactly the picture that comes to mind, 695 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:19,880 they are all standing against a wall, 696 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,280 with their backs to us. 697 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,840 And I thought it was so good how they all stood there. 698 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,920 It was like, "Kiss our *ss". 699 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,560 In May 1968, there was no feminism. 700 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,760 Feminism came later. 701 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,680 That is why there is a global demand 702 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,720 for revolution on the issue of bare breasts. 703 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:41,840 It is global! 704 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,880 We have often considered 1968 a sexual revolution. 705 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,160 This is extremely exhausting for contemporary witnesses like me. 706 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,720 Because it's nothing more than a cliché 707 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,760 and the reduction to something unimportant. 708 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,560 I fled Iran in 2017, 709 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,960 I was target of femicide and survived. 710 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,680 Instead my mum became 711 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,720 the victim of femicide. 712 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,040 She was murdered 713 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:09,240 on 8 March 2017. 714 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,640 My mother was born to be someone's daughter. 715 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,000 She had a baby to become someone's mother. 716 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,400 She became someone for everyone, 717 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,680 but she was left alone. 718 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,880 Let's say #MeToo is part 719 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,000 of this long journey 720 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,280 of re-appropriation 721 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,040 of women's bodies since the end of the 19th century. 722 00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:38,320 Everything is a logical continuation 723 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,680 of what has happened in the last two centuries. 724 00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:43,480 It's not an aberration, 725 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,080 it's not incomprehensible, 726 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,400 it's part of the logic of emancipation. 727 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,840 Stop femicide! End now! 728 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,160 I think yes, it has become more prudish. 729 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,400 Today, for example, we were travelling by steamer 730 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,800 and there was a group of women over there 731 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,280 who were very dressed up. 732 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,120 They looked away right away. One of them held the flowers 733 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:07,480 like this and looked away. 734 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,280 I'd say I've never experienced anything like that before. 735 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,480 So historically, nudity 736 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,560 ultimately tells us who has power 737 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,280 and who is able 738 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,520 to impose it on others. 739 00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:20,960 So it can be the Church, 740 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,800 it can be the state, it can be a social group. 741 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,840 In a way, that means 742 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,200 that their idea of nudity is the one that is declared legitimate. 743 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,720 Niki de Saint-Phalles said, 744 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,280 "My breasts are shields". 745 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,000 What exactly is she saying about women's bodies? 746 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,200 She says, "My breasts are shields", 747 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,120 without motherhood or sexuality - they are my protection. 748 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:44,400 I like that. 749 00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:46,480 Act now! 750 00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,160 For me, it means: really look at what it's really about. 751 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,680 And now I could really look - 752 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,640 and we even write it on our bodies. 753 00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:18,080 Before we get started and sit down for dinner, 754 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,080 we are going to move our bodies a little bit. I found that 755 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,440 moving and shaking our energy around 756 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,040 has really... 757 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,000 helps me get comfortable. 758 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:31,160 So we'll do something called Gagadance. 759 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,560 "The Fude experience": 760 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,200 everyone eats, dances and paints - 761 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:38,400 naked. 762 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,200 Host Charlie Ann Max enjoys the shared experience. 763 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,480 It's my favourite when people are very scared 764 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,920 because they always do feel a lot more 765 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,680 transformed and liberated and free, 766 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,120 especially by seeing all different types of body shapes 767 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,040 and all different kinds of people from all walks of life, 768 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:00,320 different ages. 769 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,000 It's like 770 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,120 being on a catwalk. 771 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:09,880 You come in and all these people 772 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,920 are already there. But it wasn't like that at all 773 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,680 because everyone was already interacting. 774 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,040 And you're also kind of looking. 775 00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:20,960 Your eyes wander everywhere 776 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,640 and then firstly the focus is on the eyes, 777 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,360 the face, so to speak, and from time to time secretly looking, 778 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,080 how do the others look? 779 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:32,360 So, sure. I mean, 780 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,480 I'm not saying that it's not still interesting 781 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,320 to look at naked bodies. 782 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,040 I definitely felt that nudity 783 00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:41,520 created a sense of community. 784 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,240 My journey towards 785 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,680 self-acceptance and self-love 786 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,880 wasn't always easy 787 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,360 because I think growing up in a world 788 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,280 where you have to be a certain type of way, 789 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,560 I think now, it's starting to become more open and free. 790 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,520 I was not happy with 791 00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:16,280 how I looked and how I felt. 792 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,160 Once I started to practise nudity, 793 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,000 it changed my life. 794 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,560 For movements like body positivity, 795 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,000 nudity definitely plays a role. 796 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,040 It's not really well researched yet. 797 00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:31,160 But, 798 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,080 I think it's because nudity 799 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,680 makes the body visible 800 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,560 in a special way. 801 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,120 Then, of course, I want all people 802 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:41,680 to be able to show their bodies 803 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,160 and to be accepted. 804 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,600 And nudity is also a good way 805 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,200 to achieve that. 806 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,400 So I think in some ways, 807 00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:52,480 the freedom to be naked is also 808 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,920 a sign of some power. 809 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,400 So the ability to do that 810 00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:01,520 says I'm a person in society who is now confident enough 811 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,440 that I will have the resources I need 812 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,240 that I will continue to be treated with a certain amount of respect 813 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,960 that I can take certain risks and be vulnerable in certain ways 814 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,800 and that I won't be called up on Monday 815 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,080 and told by my boss, "Sorry, you've shamed us all. 816 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,040 You are now fired", and then I'll be homeless 817 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:17,320 and unable to afford food. 818 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,320 People who can do this 819 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,040 have a certain amount of power generally. 820 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:29,720 I don't need to be naked all the time 821 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:31,640 because I get cold pretty quickly. 822 00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:35,680 But I do enjoy 823 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,320 opportunities like these. 824 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,160 My relationship with nudity 825 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,880 has very recently become more free. 826 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:45,360 Thanks to Charlie. 827 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,080 I grew up very religious. So my body never belonged to myself. 828 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:49,640 It belonged to God, 829 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,720 and you can't do anything because it's a sin 830 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,640 and then your body is gonna belong to your husband. 831 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,720 And what happens if you're queer? So being queer 832 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,000 and an adult person that 833 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,200 wants to be in touch with themselves, I've started 834 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,520 a journey on finding 835 00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:07,840 how I feel with nudity and... 836 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,040 yeah, kind of trying to erase the shame 837 00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:13,440 and trying to take back ownership of my body 838 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,320 - a little bit. - Yeah. 839 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:16,160 Hell yeah! 840 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:18,720 Yeah. 841 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,960 It's really beautiful to be in a room 842 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,000 full of all naked people and really, 843 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,160 like, you just realise 844 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,440 it's not... nothing is that serious, 845 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,680 and everything is OK. 846 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,440 Yes, it was a nice feeling. 847 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,840 But I didn't feel freer 848 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,560 or anything afterwards. 849 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,160 Is a naked person a freer person? 850 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,920 No, not per se. 851 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:48,840 But a naked person 852 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,600 is freer if they can be naked 853 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,560 when they want to be. 854 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,480 Subtitles by Alison Watt 855 00:43:36,305 --> 00:44:36,613 Watch Online Movies and Series for FREE www.osdb.link/lm