"Justice on Trial" Episode #1.7

1 00:00:11,554 --> 00:00:13,389 [solemn music] 2 00:00:16,892 --> 00:00:19,145 [chaplain] We commend to your care, oh, Lord, 3 00:00:19,228 --> 00:00:21,397 the spirit of Matthew Snyder, 4 00:00:21,981 --> 00:00:25,943 who died protecting others as a brave Marine 5 00:00:26,026 --> 00:00:27,611 in the war with Iraq, 6 00:00:27,695 --> 00:00:30,614 so that others might live. 7 00:00:30,698 --> 00:00:36,412 [crowd chanting] God hates fags! 8 00:00:36,495 --> 00:00:38,080 [Marine] Ready! 9 00:00:38,164 --> 00:00:39,290 -[guns cocking] -[Marine] Aim! 10 00:00:39,373 --> 00:00:41,041 -Fire! -[gunshots] 11 00:00:41,125 --> 00:00:45,129 [crowd chanting] The wage of sin is death! 12 00:00:45,212 --> 00:00:48,674 -[Marine] Ready. Aim. Fire! -[gunshots] 13 00:00:48,758 --> 00:00:54,180 [crowd chanting] God killed your son! 14 00:00:54,263 --> 00:00:56,932 [trumpet playing "Taps"] 15 00:00:58,934 --> 00:01:04,607 [crowd chanting] God killed your son! 16 00:01:08,694 --> 00:01:12,239 [chanting continues] 17 00:01:16,827 --> 00:01:20,581 I'm Judy Sheindlin. Before I was a judge on TV, 18 00:01:20,664 --> 00:01:23,459 I was a judge in New York City for 15 years, 19 00:01:23,542 --> 00:01:26,337 and a lawyer for 17 years before that. 20 00:01:26,420 --> 00:01:28,714 While serving on both sides of the bench, 21 00:01:28,798 --> 00:01:31,634 I learned that justice doesn't always end up feeling... 22 00:01:31,717 --> 00:01:33,134 just. 23 00:01:33,219 --> 00:01:36,472 Sometimes, the impact of one decision by a police officer, 24 00:01:36,555 --> 00:01:40,893 a lawyer, or even a judge can change the way justice is delivered. 25 00:01:42,061 --> 00:01:45,189 We're going to demonstrate this by taking landmark cases 26 00:01:45,271 --> 00:01:47,900 from actual crimes committed by real people, 27 00:01:47,983 --> 00:01:50,820 and we'll recreate them with our trial lawyers, 28 00:01:50,902 --> 00:01:52,905 and yours truly as the trial judge. 29 00:01:52,988 --> 00:01:55,866 While we're not going to recreate the trials verbatim, 30 00:01:55,950 --> 00:01:58,911 all the court's ultimate decisions are accurate. 31 00:01:58,994 --> 00:02:02,540 It will be up to you to decide whether the case was fair 32 00:02:02,623 --> 00:02:04,583 and the outcome just. 33 00:02:04,667 --> 00:02:07,545 [narrator] Real cases, actual lawyers, 34 00:02:07,628 --> 00:02:09,338 surprising verdicts, 35 00:02:11,799 --> 00:02:13,342 Justice on Trial. 36 00:02:15,553 --> 00:02:19,348 This episode of Justice on Trial touches the lives of everyone. 37 00:02:19,431 --> 00:02:22,059 It involves free speech. 38 00:02:22,142 --> 00:02:26,772 As you'll see, cases about free speech can be, well, pretty emotional. 39 00:02:26,856 --> 00:02:29,316 The First Amendment of the Constitution 40 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,570 contains ten simple words on the subject of free speech. 41 00:02:32,653 --> 00:02:38,033 Quote, "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech." 42 00:02:38,117 --> 00:02:42,204 That's it. No definition of what free speech is. 43 00:02:42,872 --> 00:02:46,417 Defining protected speech has been left to the courts. 44 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:50,379 You probably know some examples of speech that isn't protected, 45 00:02:50,462 --> 00:02:52,631 such as threats of violence. 46 00:02:53,215 --> 00:02:55,009 But what about hate speech? 47 00:02:55,091 --> 00:02:58,679 And what about speech that causes emotional distress? 48 00:02:58,762 --> 00:03:01,515 That's what this case tries to define. 49 00:03:01,599 --> 00:03:04,268 But as you'll see, it isn't easy. 50 00:03:07,229 --> 00:03:09,189 Members of the jury, 51 00:03:09,273 --> 00:03:11,108 the Plaintiff, Albert Snyder, 52 00:03:11,191 --> 00:03:13,777 is the father of a United States soldier 53 00:03:13,861 --> 00:03:16,405 who was killed while serving his country in Iraq. 54 00:03:16,488 --> 00:03:19,241 During his son's funeral, the Defendants, 55 00:03:19,325 --> 00:03:23,370 Fred Phelps, who is the founder of the Westboro Baptist Church 56 00:03:23,454 --> 00:03:27,583 and his daughters led a protest outside of that funeral. 57 00:03:27,666 --> 00:03:32,296 The Plaintiff alleges that he suffered extreme emotional distress 58 00:03:32,379 --> 00:03:36,216 as a result of the Defendant's words and seeks damages. 59 00:03:36,300 --> 00:03:39,762 The Defendant argues that, although perhaps hurtful, 60 00:03:39,845 --> 00:03:42,598 his speech and acts are protected 61 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,225 by the First Amendment's freedom of speech. 62 00:03:45,309 --> 00:03:47,561 You must decide. 63 00:03:47,645 --> 00:03:49,813 Counsel, note your appearance. 64 00:03:50,898 --> 00:03:52,775 Good morning, Your Honor. Larry Bakman 65 00:03:52,858 --> 00:03:56,403 on behalf of the Plaintiff Albert Snyder, who is present in court. 66 00:03:56,487 --> 00:03:59,865 And for the Defendants Fred Phelps, Shirley Phelps-Roper 67 00:03:59,949 --> 00:04:02,743 and the Westboro Baptist Church, I'm Dan Mentzer. 68 00:04:02,826 --> 00:04:04,537 -Good morning, Your Honor. -[Judy] Good morning. 69 00:04:04,620 --> 00:04:06,830 Counsel, if you wish to make an opening statement, 70 00:04:06,914 --> 00:04:07,915 you may do so now. 71 00:04:07,998 --> 00:04:09,583 Morning, members of the jury. 72 00:04:09,667 --> 00:04:13,212 This is my opportunity to let the jury know 73 00:04:13,295 --> 00:04:16,464 where I will be going with the Plaintiff's case. 74 00:04:16,548 --> 00:04:18,801 The Defense is going to argue to you 75 00:04:18,884 --> 00:04:22,888 that the speech undertaken by his clients 76 00:04:22,972 --> 00:04:25,474 were protected by the First Amendment. 77 00:04:25,557 --> 00:04:29,687 Our position is, that's simply not true. This is hate speech. 78 00:04:29,770 --> 00:04:32,356 Albert in this case just buried his son. 79 00:04:32,439 --> 00:04:36,276 He turns on the news immediately after the funeral, 80 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,195 and this is what he hears. 81 00:04:38,278 --> 00:04:39,822 [chanting] The wage of sin is death! 82 00:04:39,905 --> 00:04:42,574 Another military funeral has been interrupted 83 00:04:42,658 --> 00:04:45,995 by the ultra-conservative Westboro Baptist Church. 84 00:04:46,078 --> 00:04:48,998 [crowd chanting] The wage of sin is death! 85 00:04:49,081 --> 00:04:52,251 Why are you protesting at the funeral of Matthew Snyder, 86 00:04:52,334 --> 00:04:56,213 a decorated Marine who was tragically killed in Iraq? 87 00:04:56,296 --> 00:04:59,258 The US military is being punished by God 88 00:04:59,341 --> 00:05:01,051 for letting in gays. 89 00:05:01,135 --> 00:05:03,804 God Himself struck that boy down 90 00:05:03,887 --> 00:05:07,641 to show us that homosexuality is a sin 91 00:05:07,725 --> 00:05:09,643 -punishable by death. -[glass shatters] 92 00:05:09,727 --> 00:05:13,731 [chanting continues] The wage of sin is death! 93 00:05:13,814 --> 00:05:17,985 These people here had absolutely no respect, 94 00:05:18,068 --> 00:05:22,531 no consideration of how offensive their words were. 95 00:05:22,614 --> 00:05:26,910 And because of that, my client is entitled to recover 96 00:05:26,994 --> 00:05:30,080 for the intentional infliction of emotional harm 97 00:05:30,164 --> 00:05:32,750 that their conduct caused. Thank you. 98 00:05:32,832 --> 00:05:34,251 Mr. Mentzer? 99 00:05:34,334 --> 00:05:35,878 [Mentzer] Thank you, Your Honor. 100 00:05:35,961 --> 00:05:40,382 Picketing the funeral of Matthew Snyder, Albert Snyder's son, 101 00:05:40,466 --> 00:05:44,344 was not a game to my clients. They knew by picketing, 102 00:05:44,428 --> 00:05:46,555 they would be placing themselves in great danger 103 00:05:46,638 --> 00:05:49,933 by a lot of people who don't like the content of what they're saying. 104 00:05:50,017 --> 00:05:51,268 So, why would they do it? 105 00:05:51,351 --> 00:05:55,272 That's because they believe that the US military, 106 00:05:55,355 --> 00:06:00,736 by allowing homosexual and gay servicemen and women into its ranks, 107 00:06:00,819 --> 00:06:04,156 is actually placing the military itself in danger. 108 00:06:04,239 --> 00:06:08,911 It was not directed at Matthew Snyder, but at the military in general. 109 00:06:08,994 --> 00:06:11,121 And that's a key distinction here. 110 00:06:11,205 --> 00:06:14,208 Because ladies and gentlemen, in this country, 111 00:06:14,291 --> 00:06:17,711 the First Amendment guarantees us the right. 112 00:06:17,795 --> 00:06:21,965 We can voice our opinion on matters of public concern 113 00:06:22,049 --> 00:06:26,011 without fear of being sued because it's that important. 114 00:06:26,095 --> 00:06:28,055 So, we're allowed to say the things, 115 00:06:28,138 --> 00:06:31,058 the offensive, the hurtful, the homophobic language 116 00:06:31,141 --> 00:06:32,935 used by my clients, 117 00:06:33,018 --> 00:06:35,938 they're allowed to do that, no matter how disturbing, 118 00:06:36,021 --> 00:06:38,774 no matter how offensive those comments might be. 119 00:06:38,857 --> 00:06:40,567 Thank you. 120 00:06:40,651 --> 00:06:42,528 Mr. Bakman, please call your first witness. 121 00:06:42,611 --> 00:06:44,738 I call Fred Phelps. 122 00:06:48,784 --> 00:06:50,244 [Judy] Swear the witness, please. 123 00:06:50,327 --> 00:06:51,328 Raise your right hand, please. 124 00:06:51,411 --> 00:06:53,622 Do you swear to tell the truth in these matters today? 125 00:06:53,705 --> 00:06:55,290 -I do. -[Kevin] Thank you. 126 00:06:56,250 --> 00:06:57,543 You may inquire, sir. 127 00:06:57,626 --> 00:07:02,506 Thank you, Your Honor. You run the Westboro Baptist Church, 128 00:07:02,589 --> 00:07:03,590 do you not? 129 00:07:03,674 --> 00:07:04,842 Yes. 130 00:07:04,925 --> 00:07:09,179 And part and parcel of your teachings 131 00:07:09,263 --> 00:07:13,976 is to teach homophobic remarks to your congregation, correct? 132 00:07:14,059 --> 00:07:16,103 No, it is not. We teach religion. 133 00:07:16,186 --> 00:07:19,022 Well, did you teach religion on March 10th, 134 00:07:19,106 --> 00:07:21,900 when you traveled from Kansas to Maryland 135 00:07:21,984 --> 00:07:24,236 to picket Matthew Snyder's funeral? 136 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:26,864 Yes, sir, we were teaching religion. 137 00:07:26,947 --> 00:07:28,115 [engine rumbling] 138 00:07:28,198 --> 00:07:33,036 Ah, excuse me, folks. Are you with the Westboro Baptist Church? 139 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,747 That's right, Officer. Here to do God's work. 140 00:07:35,831 --> 00:07:37,249 Right, right. 141 00:07:37,332 --> 00:07:39,001 Can I see your permit? 142 00:07:40,169 --> 00:07:41,253 Here you are. 143 00:07:43,547 --> 00:07:46,758 Well, looks legit. Let's go over some ground rules. 144 00:07:46,842 --> 00:07:49,178 The only rule we need to concern ourselves with 145 00:07:49,261 --> 00:07:50,637 is the rule of God. 146 00:07:50,721 --> 00:07:53,932 And it is He and only He that I answer to. 147 00:07:54,016 --> 00:07:57,186 Actually, as an officer of the law here in the state of Maryland, 148 00:07:57,269 --> 00:08:00,606 you'll answer to me. And if you or one of your lemmings 149 00:08:00,689 --> 00:08:04,151 comes within just an inch of the 1,000-foot mandated distance 150 00:08:04,234 --> 00:08:08,488 between here and that boy's funeral, I'll arrest all of you immediately. 151 00:08:09,072 --> 00:08:10,282 How's that sound, Padre? 152 00:08:10,365 --> 00:08:12,618 We understand, Officer. 153 00:08:12,701 --> 00:08:16,622 We've exercised our right to free speech as American citizens hundreds of times. 154 00:08:16,705 --> 00:08:20,167 And just as Moses did at the base of Mount Sinai, 155 00:08:20,250 --> 00:08:24,838 we will deliver Almighty God's message to the sinners of the world. 156 00:08:26,048 --> 00:08:27,674 I'm sure you will. 157 00:08:27,758 --> 00:08:31,428 And by the way, did you bring signs with you? 158 00:08:31,511 --> 00:08:32,511 Yes, we did. 159 00:08:32,596 --> 00:08:35,015 You made those signs up at the Westboro Church, 160 00:08:35,097 --> 00:08:36,225 -is that right? -[Fred] Yes. 161 00:08:36,308 --> 00:08:38,101 [Bakman] Proud of those signs, aren't you? 162 00:08:38,184 --> 00:08:39,227 Yes, sir. 163 00:08:39,311 --> 00:08:42,481 And you didn't go to Maryland alone, did you? 164 00:08:42,563 --> 00:08:44,858 -[Fred] Nope. -[Bakman] You took your daughters? 165 00:08:44,942 --> 00:08:46,151 Yes. 166 00:08:46,235 --> 00:08:48,737 [Bakman] And four of your grandchildren, is that right? 167 00:08:48,820 --> 00:08:49,863 [Fred] Yes. 168 00:08:49,947 --> 00:08:52,324 [Bakman] And when you picket the military funerals, 169 00:08:52,407 --> 00:08:54,868 you make sure that the picketing 170 00:08:54,952 --> 00:08:59,957 exhibits your hatred towards homosexuals. 171 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:01,041 Correct, sir? 172 00:09:01,124 --> 00:09:02,125 Yes, sir. 173 00:09:02,709 --> 00:09:05,420 And it is a hatred, isn't it, Mr. Phelps? 174 00:09:05,504 --> 00:09:08,674 Yes, due to the disrespect of God. 175 00:09:08,757 --> 00:09:13,804 Well, you believe that homosexuality is an abomination 176 00:09:13,887 --> 00:09:16,181 pursuant to the Bible, correct, sir? 177 00:09:16,265 --> 00:09:17,307 Yes. 178 00:09:17,391 --> 00:09:19,768 [Bakman] So, let me ask you this. 179 00:09:19,851 --> 00:09:23,981 Let's talk about the photographs 180 00:09:24,064 --> 00:09:25,899 that were taken of you 181 00:09:25,983 --> 00:09:29,611 at the picketing of Matthew Snyder's funeral. 182 00:09:29,695 --> 00:09:32,072 -May I approach the witness, Your Honor? -Yes. 183 00:09:32,155 --> 00:09:34,032 I have three photographs, I'm gonna mark 184 00:09:34,116 --> 00:09:35,617 Plaintiff's One, Two and Three. 185 00:09:35,701 --> 00:09:38,078 I've previously shown them to counsel. 186 00:09:38,161 --> 00:09:39,162 Deemed marked. 187 00:09:39,246 --> 00:09:43,667 Thank you. Showing you Plaintiff's One for identification, Mr. Phelps. 188 00:09:43,750 --> 00:09:46,586 Do you recognize that as a photograph of you? 189 00:09:46,670 --> 00:09:47,713 [Fred] Yes. 190 00:09:47,796 --> 00:09:49,798 [Bakman] Those are your words, are they? 191 00:09:49,881 --> 00:09:50,882 Yes. 192 00:09:50,966 --> 00:09:52,968 [Bakman] You were proud to put those words 193 00:09:53,051 --> 00:09:57,097 on a sign, and then carry that sign 1,000 miles 194 00:09:57,180 --> 00:09:58,933 -from Kansas to Maryland, correct? -Objection. 195 00:09:59,016 --> 00:10:01,852 He made 'em, he carried 'em, and he exhibited them. 196 00:10:01,935 --> 00:10:03,770 -Correct, sir? -Yes. 197 00:10:03,854 --> 00:10:06,231 -And you believe them. -Yes, Judge. 198 00:10:06,315 --> 00:10:07,691 -Every word? -[Fred] Yes. 199 00:10:08,692 --> 00:10:13,196 Now, when that sign was displayed, 200 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:18,577 you knew that Matthew Snyder's father was burying his son that day, didn't you? 201 00:10:18,660 --> 00:10:19,661 Yes. 202 00:10:19,745 --> 00:10:22,039 [Bakman] You knew his son was killed in Iraq, didn't you? 203 00:10:22,122 --> 00:10:24,624 -Yes. -You didn't care whether or not 204 00:10:24,708 --> 00:10:29,921 that sign offended the man who was burying his 20-year-old boy, did it? 205 00:10:30,005 --> 00:10:31,340 No, that is incorrect. 206 00:10:31,423 --> 00:10:33,008 We were there to send a message. 207 00:10:33,091 --> 00:10:36,678 [Bakman] So, my client's burying his son 208 00:10:36,762 --> 00:10:39,556 and you want this jury to believe 209 00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:43,810 that wasn't specifically targeting Albert Snyder in this case? 210 00:10:43,894 --> 00:10:45,979 [Fred] No! We were there to send a message! 211 00:10:46,063 --> 00:10:49,358 The Bible says, there are none so blind as those who will not see. 212 00:10:49,441 --> 00:10:53,779 We were there to open people's eyes to the holy word of Almighty God. 213 00:10:55,197 --> 00:10:57,949 [Bakman] Tell me, did you know Matt Snyder personally? 214 00:10:58,033 --> 00:10:59,159 No. 215 00:10:59,242 --> 00:11:00,869 It didn't matter to you. 216 00:11:00,952 --> 00:11:03,288 No, sir. We were there to send a message. 217 00:11:03,372 --> 00:11:08,251 No matter how hurtful that was to Matthew Snyder's father, correct? 218 00:11:08,335 --> 00:11:09,628 That is correct. 219 00:11:09,711 --> 00:11:11,088 [Bakman] No further questions. 220 00:11:11,171 --> 00:11:12,589 You may inquire. 221 00:11:12,672 --> 00:11:14,716 Thank you, Your Honor. Good morning, Mr. Phelps. 222 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:15,842 [Fred] Morning, sir. 223 00:11:15,926 --> 00:11:18,345 Mr. Phelps, could you please tell the jury where you're from? 224 00:11:18,428 --> 00:11:22,265 I am from Topeka, Kansas. I have lived in Topeka since 1954. 225 00:11:22,349 --> 00:11:24,935 And I think I know the answer to this, but do you believe in God? 226 00:11:25,018 --> 00:11:26,186 Of course I do. 227 00:11:26,269 --> 00:11:29,189 Mr. Phelps, do you believe that the Bible prohibits homosexuality? 228 00:11:29,272 --> 00:11:30,607 I know it does. 229 00:11:30,690 --> 00:11:34,403 And what do you believe is God's opinion about the United States military 230 00:11:34,486 --> 00:11:38,698 since the US military has been allowing in gay servicemen and women? 231 00:11:38,782 --> 00:11:43,662 God hates the military ever since it started allowing homosexuals to enlist. 232 00:11:43,745 --> 00:11:46,248 He will punish all Americans 233 00:11:46,331 --> 00:11:48,917 until the military kicks all the gays out of it, 234 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,585 and stops letting them in. 235 00:11:50,669 --> 00:11:54,339 Mr. Phelps, what are you doing to raise awareness 236 00:11:54,423 --> 00:11:56,425 for this issue that you perceive? 237 00:11:56,508 --> 00:11:58,885 I've been picketing funerals for over 20 years. 238 00:11:58,969 --> 00:12:02,347 Ever since the military started letting homosexuals to join. 239 00:12:02,431 --> 00:12:05,350 I have picketed over 600 funerals. 240 00:12:05,434 --> 00:12:08,311 Mr. Phelps, when you picket these military funerals, 241 00:12:08,395 --> 00:12:10,939 does it matter to you whether the serviceman or woman 242 00:12:11,022 --> 00:12:13,775 who was being laid to rest was even gay? 243 00:12:13,859 --> 00:12:15,610 I don't care about that. 244 00:12:15,694 --> 00:12:18,780 I want people to know what the military is doing. 245 00:12:18,864 --> 00:12:21,616 So, are you saying that your protest is against the military 246 00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:24,161 and not the individual, Matthew Snyder, in this case? 247 00:12:24,244 --> 00:12:25,370 [Fred] That is correct. 248 00:12:25,454 --> 00:12:29,583 Why do you think it's so important to let the general public know 249 00:12:29,666 --> 00:12:31,877 about what's going on in the military? 250 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,379 I need to make people aware of what is going on, 251 00:12:34,463 --> 00:12:37,174 so that I can save this country. 252 00:12:37,257 --> 00:12:39,801 Do you feel you're saving lives by doing what you're doing? 253 00:12:39,885 --> 00:12:41,595 -Yes, sir. -Thank you, Mr. Phelps. 254 00:12:41,678 --> 00:12:43,930 -I have no further questions. -[Judy] Witness is excused. 255 00:12:46,558 --> 00:12:48,393 Call your next witness, Mr. Bakman. 256 00:12:48,477 --> 00:12:51,146 I call Shirley Phelps-Roper, Your Honor. 257 00:12:51,229 --> 00:12:52,731 [suspenseful music] 258 00:12:57,986 --> 00:12:59,779 Mr. Bakman, you may inquire. 259 00:12:59,863 --> 00:13:01,156 [Bakman] Miss Phelps... 260 00:13:01,239 --> 00:13:03,825 Sir, before we begin, I would just like it on the record 261 00:13:03,909 --> 00:13:09,247 that I strenuously object to the hostile, misleading, prejudicial, 262 00:13:09,331 --> 00:13:12,751 and frankly disgusting way you just badgered my father. 263 00:13:12,834 --> 00:13:16,338 Perhaps, instead of the way you've repetitively attacked him 264 00:13:16,421 --> 00:13:19,257 with your accusations, you would do better to heed our warning 265 00:13:19,341 --> 00:13:20,717 about God's wrath. 266 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,511 -Well, you... -[Judy] Excuse me. 267 00:13:22,594 --> 00:13:25,347 Miss Phelps, this is a courtroom. 268 00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:27,474 -[Shirley] I understand, Your Honor, I... -Uh... Ah! 269 00:13:28,725 --> 00:13:32,395 This is a courtroom. I control this courtroom. 270 00:13:32,479 --> 00:13:35,899 And what I want you to do is answer counsel's questions. 271 00:13:35,982 --> 00:13:38,610 You want to make a speech, go outside. 272 00:13:38,693 --> 00:13:39,736 Clear? 273 00:13:39,819 --> 00:13:40,987 -Clear. -[Judy] Perfect. 274 00:13:42,822 --> 00:13:44,699 Mr. Bakman, you may inquire. 275 00:13:44,783 --> 00:13:47,744 [Bakman] Miss Phelps, how many children do you have? 276 00:13:47,827 --> 00:13:48,828 Eleven. 277 00:13:48,912 --> 00:13:52,457 So, you, your father, and four of your children 278 00:13:52,540 --> 00:13:56,294 traveled on March 9th from Kansas to Maryland 279 00:13:56,378 --> 00:13:59,839 in order to picket Matthew Snyder's funeral, correct? 280 00:13:59,923 --> 00:14:00,924 Correct. 281 00:14:01,007 --> 00:14:06,555 Now, your beliefs are hate beliefs towards homosexuals, isn't that right? 282 00:14:06,638 --> 00:14:09,808 You characterize us as hateful and homophobic. 283 00:14:09,891 --> 00:14:13,979 We are simply preaching the word of God as it says in the Bible. 284 00:14:14,062 --> 00:14:18,024 No, if I were to characterize you, I would characterize you as offensive. 285 00:14:18,108 --> 00:14:19,526 -Let's talk about your... -Objection. 286 00:14:19,609 --> 00:14:21,028 -Objection. -[Judy] Objection Sustained. 287 00:14:21,111 --> 00:14:23,321 Strike that from the record. Counsel, careful. 288 00:14:23,405 --> 00:14:27,701 Let's talk about the signs that you and your children made. 289 00:14:27,784 --> 00:14:30,579 By the way, did your children help you make signs 290 00:14:30,662 --> 00:14:32,998 that you took from Kansas to Maryland? 291 00:14:33,081 --> 00:14:34,457 Absolutely, they did. 292 00:14:34,540 --> 00:14:38,378 And those signs had such colorful language... 293 00:14:38,461 --> 00:14:41,214 We use harsh, plain language to get attention 294 00:14:41,298 --> 00:14:44,092 so we can spread our message as far as possible. 295 00:14:44,175 --> 00:14:45,969 Are you proud of those signs? 296 00:14:46,052 --> 00:14:47,637 I am not ashamed of them at all. 297 00:14:47,721 --> 00:14:50,390 [Bakman] Are you proud of teaching your children 298 00:14:50,473 --> 00:14:51,808 that type of thought? 299 00:14:51,891 --> 00:14:54,603 You either teach your children the true word of God, 300 00:14:54,686 --> 00:14:57,397 or you raise them by definition for the devil. 301 00:14:59,524 --> 00:15:03,361 So, you write articles, do you not, ma'am? 302 00:15:03,445 --> 00:15:08,074 And you title those articles "epics." Is that right? 303 00:15:08,158 --> 00:15:09,409 Yes. We... 304 00:15:09,492 --> 00:15:13,371 [Bakman] And you wrote an epic about your picketing activity 305 00:15:13,455 --> 00:15:16,333 in front of Matthew Snyder's funeral, didn't you? 306 00:15:16,416 --> 00:15:17,792 Yes, I did. Sir... 307 00:15:17,876 --> 00:15:19,544 And what did the epic say? 308 00:15:19,628 --> 00:15:21,504 It explained how we had done God's work. 309 00:15:21,588 --> 00:15:24,424 [Bakman] And in preaching God's work, 310 00:15:24,507 --> 00:15:29,137 you selected a particular website to post your epic, didn't you? 311 00:15:29,220 --> 00:15:32,265 -Yes, sir. -Why don't you turn to the jury, ma'am, 312 00:15:32,349 --> 00:15:36,478 and tell the jury what the name of the website is. 313 00:15:36,561 --> 00:15:39,439 It's called Godhatesfags.com. 314 00:15:40,190 --> 00:15:44,069 And I see what you're doing again with the emotional manipulation here. 315 00:15:44,152 --> 00:15:45,570 I'm sorry, I didn't get that. 316 00:15:45,654 --> 00:15:47,823 I understand the words are very offensive to most people, 317 00:15:47,906 --> 00:15:51,076 but you have to understand there is zero ambiguity in the Bible 318 00:15:51,159 --> 00:15:55,330 about what God thinks about homosexuality. It is a mortal sin against Him. 319 00:15:55,413 --> 00:15:57,332 And I would do and say whatever I must 320 00:15:57,415 --> 00:15:59,918 to help this nation understand the peril we're in. 321 00:16:00,001 --> 00:16:03,755 Hell goes on forever. The consequences are too severe. 322 00:16:03,838 --> 00:16:05,799 Repent or perish, sir. 323 00:16:05,882 --> 00:16:09,260 This goes for everybody. Repent or perish. 324 00:16:11,346 --> 00:16:16,643 No matter the hurt it causes a father who just buried his son. Correct? 325 00:16:16,726 --> 00:16:20,980 I am not responsible for Mr. Snyder watching the news after the funeral. 326 00:16:21,064 --> 00:16:25,860 Well, and you made sure that you talked to the press that day, didn't you? 327 00:16:25,944 --> 00:16:28,363 The press approached me to ask me questions. 328 00:16:28,446 --> 00:16:31,074 And you made sure those signs of yours 329 00:16:31,157 --> 00:16:33,827 were visible when the press interviewed you, didn't you? 330 00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:37,247 Again, our entire purpose here is to get our message out 331 00:16:37,330 --> 00:16:38,915 to as many people as possible. 332 00:16:38,998 --> 00:16:40,625 So, what's the answer to my question? 333 00:16:40,709 --> 00:16:42,419 -Yes, sir. -Thank you. 334 00:16:42,502 --> 00:16:44,170 And tell me something. 335 00:16:44,254 --> 00:16:45,672 Face the jury and tell them 336 00:16:45,755 --> 00:16:49,175 whether or not you have any remorse whatsoever... 337 00:16:49,259 --> 00:16:52,303 -Objection. -...for the type of language you used 338 00:16:52,387 --> 00:16:55,557 in picketing Matthew Snyder's funeral? 339 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,184 -Objection. That's an improper question... -Shh! 340 00:16:58,268 --> 00:17:00,937 ...to require a witness to face a jury, or face any particular... 341 00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:02,856 You want to rephrase the question, sir. 342 00:17:02,939 --> 00:17:06,358 [Bakman] Certainly. Is there any remorse whatsoever 343 00:17:06,443 --> 00:17:10,696 in any part of your body for the hurt you've caused my client 344 00:17:10,780 --> 00:17:13,241 after burying his 20-year-old son? 345 00:17:14,617 --> 00:17:17,412 I am not remorseful, or I would not have done it. 346 00:17:19,122 --> 00:17:21,790 -Any other questions? -No further questions. 347 00:17:21,875 --> 00:17:24,002 -You may inquire, sir. -Thank you, Your Honor. 348 00:17:24,502 --> 00:17:25,627 Good afternoon, ma'am. 349 00:17:25,712 --> 00:17:26,713 Good afternoon. 350 00:17:26,796 --> 00:17:29,007 [Mentzer] Could you please tell us what your profession is? 351 00:17:29,090 --> 00:17:30,091 I'm a lawyer. 352 00:17:30,175 --> 00:17:32,385 And as a lawyer, who do you work for? 353 00:17:32,469 --> 00:17:34,471 Phelps Chartered, my family's firm. 354 00:17:34,554 --> 00:17:38,099 But I do very little client work except for the Westboro Baptist Church. 355 00:17:38,183 --> 00:17:41,102 And does part of your work with the Westboro Baptist Church 356 00:17:41,186 --> 00:17:43,021 involve picketing military funerals? 357 00:17:43,104 --> 00:17:45,106 Yes, sir. I've done that for 19 years. 358 00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:47,025 And why do you picket military funerals? 359 00:17:47,108 --> 00:17:49,110 Because God commands us to let people know 360 00:17:49,194 --> 00:17:51,237 what the military's doing so that we can stop it. 361 00:17:51,321 --> 00:17:55,158 See, the US military is angering God by letting in homosexuals. 362 00:17:55,241 --> 00:17:57,035 And this is very simple. 363 00:17:57,118 --> 00:17:59,037 If the nation obeys the commandments of God, 364 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:00,705 then God will bless this nation. 365 00:18:00,789 --> 00:18:04,626 But if the nation disobeys, God will bring his wrath down upon us. 366 00:18:04,709 --> 00:18:09,380 It is our duty to take to the streets and cry out loud in the public places, 367 00:18:09,464 --> 00:18:12,008 "Spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet. 368 00:18:12,091 --> 00:18:15,512 Be instant in season and out of season. Preach thy word." 369 00:18:15,595 --> 00:18:17,806 [Mentzer] So, I want to be sure I understand. You're saying 370 00:18:17,889 --> 00:18:20,600 that because during the occasion of these military funerals, 371 00:18:20,683 --> 00:18:23,853 you have lots of support, and lots of support for the servicemen, 372 00:18:23,937 --> 00:18:26,272 you feel that's the time that you want to step in 373 00:18:26,356 --> 00:18:28,149 and say, "Hey, there's another side to this." 374 00:18:28,233 --> 00:18:32,737 Absolutely, yes. This country is more concerned with being politically correct 375 00:18:32,821 --> 00:18:35,114 than they are about their immortal souls. 376 00:18:35,198 --> 00:18:37,367 Ma'am, what sort of an audience do you hope to reach 377 00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:39,160 when you go to these military funerals? 378 00:18:39,244 --> 00:18:42,831 We hope to reach the largest audience possible to spread our word. 379 00:18:42,914 --> 00:18:45,917 And ironically, we have never had so large a platform 380 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,795 as the one we've gotten from Albert Snyder suing us. 381 00:18:48,878 --> 00:18:51,256 The attention we've gotten from this has let our word 382 00:18:51,339 --> 00:18:53,550 go louder and farther than ever before. 383 00:18:53,633 --> 00:18:54,634 So, thank you. 384 00:18:54,717 --> 00:18:57,554 [Mentzer] Now, during the picketing that morning 385 00:18:57,637 --> 00:19:00,348 with the other members of the Westboro Baptist Church, 386 00:19:00,431 --> 00:19:03,893 did either you or any of the other members of your protest group 387 00:19:03,977 --> 00:19:07,313 ever yell profanities at any of the mourners? 388 00:19:07,397 --> 00:19:08,606 Absolutely not. 389 00:19:08,690 --> 00:19:11,568 Now, Mr. Bakman asked you about the signs. 390 00:19:11,651 --> 00:19:12,819 What did you mean by that? 391 00:19:12,902 --> 00:19:14,195 Okay, thank you, let me explain. 392 00:19:14,279 --> 00:19:18,741 So many of our naysayers love to harp on us for the "Thank God for 9/11" signs. 393 00:19:18,825 --> 00:19:22,745 But that also, you have to understand, was just on a larger scale. 394 00:19:22,829 --> 00:19:25,498 God's punishment against this depraved nation 395 00:19:25,582 --> 00:19:29,168 for letting homosexuals into the military, and all the other sins 396 00:19:29,252 --> 00:19:32,964 that people in this country commit every single day. 397 00:19:33,047 --> 00:19:35,800 But in the case of American soldiers in particular, 398 00:19:35,884 --> 00:19:38,845 you have to understand, these are people who have volunteered 399 00:19:38,928 --> 00:19:41,639 to fight for a country that has made God their number one enemy, 400 00:19:41,723 --> 00:19:46,436 that has institutionalized disobedience and rebellion against Our Lord and Savior. 401 00:19:46,519 --> 00:19:48,479 I say, they all deserve death. 402 00:19:49,397 --> 00:19:52,817 We are going to keep being the victim of God's punishments, 403 00:19:52,901 --> 00:19:57,488 His righteous wrath on this nation until we change our ways. 404 00:19:57,572 --> 00:20:00,992 So, thank God for dead soldiers, thank God for 9/11. 405 00:20:01,075 --> 00:20:04,954 Thank God for any disaster that could possibly change the hearts and minds 406 00:20:05,038 --> 00:20:08,625 of the people before it's too late. This nation is doomed. 407 00:20:08,708 --> 00:20:12,378 Hell goes on forever. I cannot say that enough. 408 00:20:12,462 --> 00:20:14,213 You have to see the big picture. 409 00:20:14,297 --> 00:20:16,257 So, what you're saying is, your protests, 410 00:20:16,341 --> 00:20:18,384 you feel that you're actually saving lives? 411 00:20:18,468 --> 00:20:20,136 Absolutely! 412 00:20:20,845 --> 00:20:22,305 -Thank you, ma'am. -[Judy] Redirect. 413 00:20:22,388 --> 00:20:23,514 -[Bakman] Oh, no. -Oh, no. 414 00:20:23,598 --> 00:20:25,183 [Bakman] I think we've heard quite enough. 415 00:20:25,266 --> 00:20:26,851 Yes. Witness is excused. 416 00:20:26,935 --> 00:20:29,375 -Thank you very much. You may be seated. -[Shirley] Thank you. 417 00:20:31,481 --> 00:20:33,566 -Mr. Bakman? -[Bakman] Jody Rush, please. 418 00:20:33,650 --> 00:20:35,234 [pensive music] 419 00:20:40,239 --> 00:20:41,407 You may inquire. 420 00:20:41,491 --> 00:20:43,410 [Bakman] Are you currently in the Marine Corps, sir? 421 00:20:43,493 --> 00:20:45,495 -Yes, I am. -[Bakman] And what is your rank? 422 00:20:45,578 --> 00:20:48,873 -I'm a Private. -And did you have occasion 423 00:20:48,957 --> 00:20:52,126 to serve with Matthew Snyder in Iraq? 424 00:20:52,210 --> 00:20:54,587 -Yes, for about... -[Bakman] Did you know him well? 425 00:20:54,671 --> 00:20:56,381 I did. We were very close. 426 00:20:56,464 --> 00:21:00,051 Tell me about Matthew Snyder. 427 00:21:00,134 --> 00:21:03,930 Did he serve with honesty and integrity when he was in the Corps? 428 00:21:04,013 --> 00:21:05,098 No question. 429 00:21:05,181 --> 00:21:08,685 [Bakman] And I want to focus your attention, Private, 430 00:21:08,768 --> 00:21:11,521 on the events of March 10th. 431 00:21:11,604 --> 00:21:15,316 You came back from Iraq to serve as a pallbearer 432 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,151 for Matthew's funeral, did you not? 433 00:21:17,235 --> 00:21:18,319 That's correct. 434 00:21:18,403 --> 00:21:24,200 And describe for the jury Albert Snyder's emotional demeanor 435 00:21:24,283 --> 00:21:25,493 at the time of the funeral. 436 00:21:25,576 --> 00:21:26,786 [Jody] Distraught. 437 00:21:28,121 --> 00:21:31,040 I mean, he lost his only son. 438 00:21:32,166 --> 00:21:35,294 They were so close. I mean, it made me jealous. 439 00:21:35,378 --> 00:21:38,297 I wish I had a relationship with my father like that. 440 00:21:38,381 --> 00:21:40,842 They were so close. I can only... 441 00:21:41,759 --> 00:21:44,220 imagine how he felt that day. 442 00:21:46,848 --> 00:21:51,686 And tell the jury whether or not you observed a difference 443 00:21:51,769 --> 00:21:55,606 in his emotional state when you were with him 444 00:21:55,690 --> 00:21:59,610 when the two of you saw the Phelps running their mouths, 445 00:21:59,694 --> 00:22:01,988 and the signage that they were carrying. 446 00:22:02,071 --> 00:22:03,406 He was a shell of himself. 447 00:22:04,449 --> 00:22:05,992 He was broken. 448 00:22:07,744 --> 00:22:09,579 The man was vomiting. 449 00:22:11,247 --> 00:22:12,415 [sighs] 450 00:22:12,498 --> 00:22:13,583 You need a moment? 451 00:22:13,666 --> 00:22:14,667 [Jody] Thanks. 452 00:22:16,461 --> 00:22:18,296 [exhales heavily] 453 00:22:18,379 --> 00:22:21,299 I think this is an appropriate place to stop, Your Honor. 454 00:22:21,382 --> 00:22:23,009 No further questions. 455 00:22:23,092 --> 00:22:24,135 Any questions? 456 00:22:24,218 --> 00:22:26,554 [Mentzer] There are some questions here, Your Honor. 457 00:22:26,637 --> 00:22:29,265 Sir, I just want to be sure I understand this. 458 00:22:29,348 --> 00:22:31,893 You were with Mr. Snyder the whole day, March 10th, 459 00:22:31,976 --> 00:22:33,895 the day that Matthew was laid to rest. 460 00:22:33,978 --> 00:22:35,480 -Is that correct? -I was. Yes. 461 00:22:35,563 --> 00:22:38,274 Now, you were with him in the car, 462 00:22:38,357 --> 00:22:41,444 in the funeral procession leading to the church that morning? 463 00:22:41,527 --> 00:22:43,237 Yes. I was riding with Mr. Snyder. 464 00:22:43,321 --> 00:22:46,699 Now, you didn't see either Mr. Phelps 465 00:22:46,783 --> 00:22:50,328 or his daughter, Miss Roper-Phelps, that morning 466 00:22:50,411 --> 00:22:52,705 -on the way to the funeral, did you? -No, I did not. 467 00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:57,794 After the funeral service at the church, you then accompanied Mr. Snyder 468 00:22:57,877 --> 00:23:00,379 to the cemetery where Matthew was laid to rest. 469 00:23:00,463 --> 00:23:01,464 Yes. 470 00:23:01,547 --> 00:23:04,634 On the way to the cemetery, you didn't see any signs 471 00:23:04,717 --> 00:23:08,471 protesting the military on the way to the cemetery, did you? 472 00:23:08,554 --> 00:23:09,555 No. 473 00:23:09,639 --> 00:23:12,225 So, if I'm clear about this, my clients 474 00:23:12,308 --> 00:23:16,813 did not disrupt the funeral services of Matthew Snyder in any way, did they? 475 00:23:16,896 --> 00:23:18,231 No, they did not. 476 00:23:18,314 --> 00:23:19,357 Thank you, Mr. Rush. 477 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,317 [Judy] Witness is excused. Thank you. 478 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,319 [thoughtful music] 479 00:23:23,402 --> 00:23:24,862 [Judy] Mr. Bakman? 480 00:23:24,946 --> 00:23:27,156 [Bakman] I call my client, Albert Snyder. 481 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,325 [tense music] 482 00:23:35,581 --> 00:23:36,582 You may inquire. 483 00:23:36,666 --> 00:23:39,585 All right, Albert, you have brought suit 484 00:23:39,669 --> 00:23:44,340 against Fred Phelps and Shirley Phelps in this case, is that right? 485 00:23:44,423 --> 00:23:45,883 -Yes. -[Bakman] For what? 486 00:23:46,717 --> 00:23:49,720 Intentional infliction of emotional distress. 487 00:23:49,804 --> 00:23:53,391 [Bakman] And that is over their conduct 488 00:23:53,474 --> 00:23:55,935 at your son's funeral, or after your son's funeral? 489 00:23:56,018 --> 00:23:57,103 Yes. 490 00:23:57,186 --> 00:24:00,148 And Matthew died in Iraq, did he not? 491 00:24:00,231 --> 00:24:01,232 Yes. 492 00:24:01,315 --> 00:24:03,985 [Bakman] How old was Matthew when he died? 493 00:24:04,068 --> 00:24:05,153 He was 20 years old. 494 00:24:05,236 --> 00:24:08,656 And would it be fair to say that the two of you were close? 495 00:24:08,739 --> 00:24:10,408 [Albert] Yes, extremely. 496 00:24:10,491 --> 00:24:14,996 We spoke some four to five times per week prior to his deployment. 497 00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:17,498 How did you find out he died? 498 00:24:17,582 --> 00:24:20,751 Marines came to my home and notified me 499 00:24:21,794 --> 00:24:22,879 of his death. 500 00:24:22,962 --> 00:24:25,089 And how did you feel when you were informed? 501 00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:29,051 I became angry, 502 00:24:30,178 --> 00:24:31,179 upset, 503 00:24:32,638 --> 00:24:33,931 and depressed. 504 00:24:34,015 --> 00:24:36,642 [Bakman] Did you have to make funeral arrangements for your son? 505 00:24:36,726 --> 00:24:39,437 -I did. -[Bakman] And at the time of the funeral, 506 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,857 Albert, were you made aware that there were picketers there? 507 00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:46,986 Not at the time, but I saw the tops of their signs. 508 00:24:47,069 --> 00:24:51,741 Were you able to identify the picketers later from the news? 509 00:24:51,824 --> 00:24:54,493 Yes. They were from the Westboro Baptist Church. 510 00:24:54,577 --> 00:24:56,746 [solemn music] 511 00:24:56,829 --> 00:24:59,874 Tell me about the signs that you saw on the news, Albert. 512 00:24:59,957 --> 00:25:04,086 What did you take the words "God hates fags" to mean? 513 00:25:05,338 --> 00:25:06,923 That my son was gay. 514 00:25:07,423 --> 00:25:09,425 -Was your son gay? -No, he was not. 515 00:25:09,508 --> 00:25:14,680 You saw this an hour after putting your son in the ground, didn't you? 516 00:25:15,681 --> 00:25:19,435 Yes, later, after the funeral, about an hour... 517 00:25:20,436 --> 00:25:22,855 after the funeral, after I arrived at home. 518 00:25:22,939 --> 00:25:24,607 I saw in full view... 519 00:25:25,858 --> 00:25:28,611 the vulgar and offensive signs they were carrying. 520 00:25:28,694 --> 00:25:34,033 Albert, did you hear the Defendant Fred Phelps speak on the news? 521 00:25:34,116 --> 00:25:36,410 Yes. His mouth moved a mile a minute, 522 00:25:36,494 --> 00:25:40,122 spewing his hatred and his homophobic remarks. 523 00:25:42,250 --> 00:25:43,793 It was so wrong. 524 00:25:45,253 --> 00:25:49,006 I was grieving over the loss of my son. 525 00:25:49,090 --> 00:25:51,259 It made me physically ill. 526 00:25:52,468 --> 00:25:55,846 I actually threw up, I was so sick to my stomach. 527 00:25:55,930 --> 00:25:57,014 I felt... 528 00:25:58,599 --> 00:26:00,393 incredible depression. 529 00:26:01,477 --> 00:26:04,647 My son loved this country. 530 00:26:04,730 --> 00:26:09,402 He fought and died for the freedoms and rights that we enjoy. 531 00:26:09,485 --> 00:26:14,615 He fought and died for the freedoms and the rights that the protesters enjoy. 532 00:26:14,699 --> 00:26:17,451 He defended their right to protest! 533 00:26:18,577 --> 00:26:22,081 They should only say, "Thank you for your service." 534 00:26:24,625 --> 00:26:28,796 [Bakman] Do you still feel the emotional effects today 535 00:26:28,879 --> 00:26:30,840 from what you observed the Phelps do? 536 00:26:30,923 --> 00:26:35,386 Yes, I still suffer every day over the denigration and defamation 537 00:26:35,469 --> 00:26:37,138 of my son, who... 538 00:26:41,767 --> 00:26:43,894 Who gave his life for this country... 539 00:26:45,688 --> 00:26:47,690 paying the ultimate price... 540 00:26:50,026 --> 00:26:56,032 unlike that scum, Fred Phelps, and his family members. 541 00:26:56,115 --> 00:26:58,993 [Bakman] Can you quantify for the jury, Albert, 542 00:26:59,076 --> 00:27:03,664 the pain and suffering you've endured at the hands of these two over here? 543 00:27:03,748 --> 00:27:05,708 [Albert] That's an impossibility for me. 544 00:27:05,791 --> 00:27:07,710 My son was everything to me. 545 00:27:09,295 --> 00:27:14,175 They destroyed his memory and the good he represented. 546 00:27:14,258 --> 00:27:15,760 Were you proud of your boy? 547 00:27:15,843 --> 00:27:17,219 [Albert] Yes, I was indeed. 548 00:27:18,179 --> 00:27:21,640 [voice breaking] I was proud of my boy. 549 00:27:24,185 --> 00:27:26,354 -[Judy] Anything else, Counselor? -No, Your Honor. 550 00:27:26,437 --> 00:27:28,356 -You have any questions? -[Mentzer] I do, Your Honor. 551 00:27:28,439 --> 00:27:30,107 Good afternoon, Mr. Snyder. 552 00:27:30,191 --> 00:27:31,567 Good afternoon, sir. 553 00:27:31,650 --> 00:27:34,320 Now, you described for us on direct examination, 554 00:27:34,403 --> 00:27:38,282 you told the jury, that raw pain that you felt 555 00:27:38,366 --> 00:27:42,995 when you first heard the news that your son Matthew had died in Iraq. 556 00:27:43,079 --> 00:27:44,080 Yes. 557 00:27:44,163 --> 00:27:48,542 You described it as angry, upset, and depressed. 558 00:27:48,626 --> 00:27:49,794 Is that accurate? 559 00:27:49,877 --> 00:27:51,045 That's correct. 560 00:27:51,128 --> 00:27:53,672 [Mentzer] Now, when you went to the ceremony, 561 00:27:53,756 --> 00:27:57,468 you saw signs on the way to the church, 562 00:27:57,551 --> 00:28:00,054 and on the way from the church to the ceremony, 563 00:28:00,137 --> 00:28:04,141 showing support for Matthew and what he had given to our nation, right? 564 00:28:04,225 --> 00:28:05,226 Yes. 565 00:28:05,309 --> 00:28:07,353 But even all of that support, 566 00:28:07,436 --> 00:28:11,023 you were still angry, upset, and depressed 567 00:28:11,107 --> 00:28:13,025 that entire day. Right? 568 00:28:13,109 --> 00:28:14,110 Yes. 569 00:28:14,193 --> 00:28:16,195 Now, did you see either of these two, 570 00:28:16,278 --> 00:28:19,115 or any of the members of the Westboro Baptist Church 571 00:28:19,198 --> 00:28:22,243 on the street that day during the service? 572 00:28:22,326 --> 00:28:23,327 No. 573 00:28:23,411 --> 00:28:26,414 You didn't see any of 'em that day until later on, 574 00:28:26,497 --> 00:28:28,374 you turned on the news. Is that right? 575 00:28:28,457 --> 00:28:29,458 Yes. 576 00:28:29,542 --> 00:28:32,711 So, after reading those offensive signs, 577 00:28:32,795 --> 00:28:35,548 were you still angry, upset, and depressed? 578 00:28:35,631 --> 00:28:38,175 Yes, I felt that way all day long. 579 00:28:38,259 --> 00:28:41,429 So, after reading and seeing the positive signs 580 00:28:41,512 --> 00:28:45,558 showing support for Matthew, you were angry, upset, and depressed. 581 00:28:45,641 --> 00:28:48,018 And after seeing the signs from my clients, 582 00:28:48,102 --> 00:28:50,771 you were still angry, upset, and depressed. Right? 583 00:28:50,855 --> 00:28:51,939 [Albert] Yes. 584 00:28:52,022 --> 00:28:54,358 [Mentzer] And that was as a result of having lost your son 585 00:28:54,442 --> 00:28:55,651 in service to our nation. 586 00:28:55,734 --> 00:28:56,735 Yes. 587 00:28:56,819 --> 00:28:57,903 Thank you, sir. 588 00:28:57,987 --> 00:29:00,531 [Judy] Witness is excused. Thank you very much, Mr. Snyder. 589 00:29:00,614 --> 00:29:01,991 Any other witnesses, sir? 590 00:29:02,074 --> 00:29:04,618 No, Your Honor. At this time, the Plaintiff rests. 591 00:29:04,702 --> 00:29:05,953 Mr. Mentzer? 592 00:29:06,036 --> 00:29:07,163 The Defense rests. 593 00:29:07,246 --> 00:29:09,165 Closing arguments, Mr. Bakman? 594 00:29:09,248 --> 00:29:10,833 [Bakman] Thank you, Your Honor. 595 00:29:10,916 --> 00:29:15,546 Ladies and gentlemen, this is my opportunity to speak to you 596 00:29:15,629 --> 00:29:21,302 and to sum up the evidence, and really apply the facts to the law 597 00:29:21,385 --> 00:29:23,721 so that you're able to reach a verdict in this case. 598 00:29:23,804 --> 00:29:28,726 This is a case about intentional infliction of emotional distress. 599 00:29:28,809 --> 00:29:33,355 The Defense lawyer wants to turn it into a case about free speech. 600 00:29:33,439 --> 00:29:36,567 Hate is not free speech. 601 00:29:36,650 --> 00:29:40,362 You can't spew, you can't vomit hatred, 602 00:29:40,446 --> 00:29:44,909 and then claim it's protected under the First Amendment. 603 00:29:44,992 --> 00:29:50,331 Mr. Mentzer wants you to believe that his clients' comments 604 00:29:50,414 --> 00:29:54,793 were targeting the US military as a whole. 605 00:29:54,877 --> 00:29:59,924 They weren't targeting the Snyder family or his son, Matthew Snyder. 606 00:30:00,007 --> 00:30:03,177 Nothing could be further from the truth. 607 00:30:03,260 --> 00:30:05,054 It's a smoke screen. 608 00:30:05,137 --> 00:30:07,890 How do you hide behind the Bible, 609 00:30:07,973 --> 00:30:11,852 and make a sign, and show it an hour after 610 00:30:11,936 --> 00:30:14,480 you have a parent burying his son? 611 00:30:14,563 --> 00:30:17,233 Put yourself in his shoes 612 00:30:17,316 --> 00:30:20,110 while you're back in that deliberation room, 613 00:30:20,194 --> 00:30:24,406 and ask yourself, if you were in his shoes, 614 00:30:24,490 --> 00:30:28,869 how would you quantify the amount of money to award 615 00:30:28,953 --> 00:30:34,208 for that kind of intentional infliction of emotional distress? 616 00:30:34,291 --> 00:30:38,212 And my argument to you, folks, there's not enough money in the world. 617 00:30:39,213 --> 00:30:43,050 Think about it, and come back with a reasonable verdict 618 00:30:43,133 --> 00:30:48,764 to compensate Albert Snyder for the pain and the suffering 619 00:30:48,847 --> 00:30:53,185 he had to endure in listening to their vile, 620 00:30:53,269 --> 00:30:56,855 offensive vitriol. 621 00:30:58,607 --> 00:30:59,692 Thank you. 622 00:31:00,526 --> 00:31:02,945 -Mr. Mentzer. -[Mentzer] Thank you, Your Honor. 623 00:31:03,028 --> 00:31:05,447 The Defendants, the Westboro Baptist Church, 624 00:31:05,531 --> 00:31:09,034 were involved in a peaceful and a lawful protest on March 10th. 625 00:31:09,118 --> 00:31:13,122 They did not disrupt the services, either when poor Mr. Snyder 626 00:31:13,205 --> 00:31:17,126 was on his way to the church, or away from the services. 627 00:31:17,209 --> 00:31:21,463 Mr. Snyder did not even know they were there until later on. 628 00:31:21,547 --> 00:31:26,218 But the key issue here is, where was their protest directed? 629 00:31:26,302 --> 00:31:29,513 Was it directed at Mr. Snyder and Matthew, 630 00:31:29,597 --> 00:31:32,182 or was it directed at the military? 631 00:31:32,266 --> 00:31:36,020 Because in spite of what Mr. Bakman has told you, 632 00:31:36,103 --> 00:31:39,189 maintain your focus here on the issue. 633 00:31:39,273 --> 00:31:43,902 Because this is the exact thing that all of us have a right to do. 634 00:31:43,986 --> 00:31:48,907 And that is to air our views on issues that have a public concern, 635 00:31:48,991 --> 00:31:53,078 like the military, no matter how offensive they might be. 636 00:31:54,455 --> 00:31:55,539 Thank you. 637 00:31:55,623 --> 00:31:57,041 [Judy] Thank you, Mr. Mentzer. 638 00:31:58,334 --> 00:32:03,213 Members of the jury, you have now heard all of the evidence in this case. 639 00:32:03,297 --> 00:32:07,217 The First Amendment protection of free speech has limits, 640 00:32:07,301 --> 00:32:11,639 including vulgar, offensive, and shocking statements. 641 00:32:11,722 --> 00:32:14,516 You must decide whether the Defendants' actions 642 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,062 would be highly offensive to a reasonable person. 643 00:32:18,145 --> 00:32:23,609 You must decide whether the acts and statements were extreme and outrageous. 644 00:32:23,692 --> 00:32:26,862 And whether they were so offensive and shocking, 645 00:32:26,945 --> 00:32:30,032 as to not be entitled to First Amendment protection. 646 00:32:30,115 --> 00:32:34,495 Should you decide that the Plaintiff is entitled to a judgment in his favor, 647 00:32:34,578 --> 00:32:38,499 you shall consider the monetary amount of those damages. 648 00:32:39,083 --> 00:32:40,459 You may now retire. 649 00:32:42,002 --> 00:32:45,422 Before we get to the verdict, I want to be clear. 650 00:32:45,506 --> 00:32:51,011 You'll notice the very specific language the judge, played by me, gave to the jury. 651 00:32:51,095 --> 00:32:55,599 It seems as if the jury was being asked to decide and define 652 00:32:55,683 --> 00:32:57,893 the words "free speech." 653 00:32:57,976 --> 00:33:02,481 Well, that's actually kind of unusual for a judge to ask a jury. 654 00:33:02,564 --> 00:33:04,775 Usually, juries are instructed to find 655 00:33:04,858 --> 00:33:09,154 whether the facts have satisfied the legal standard of law. 656 00:33:09,238 --> 00:33:13,742 But this judge actually asked the jury to interpret the law. 657 00:33:13,826 --> 00:33:17,371 Just so that you know, that's not me freelancing here. 658 00:33:17,454 --> 00:33:20,791 That's what the actual trial judge told the jury. 659 00:33:20,874 --> 00:33:22,710 Now, let's hear the verdict. 660 00:33:23,210 --> 00:33:26,463 Kevin, the jury has returned. May I have the verdict sheet, please? 661 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:34,074 Watch Online Movies and Series for FREE www.osdb.link/lm 662 00:33:35,806 --> 00:33:37,725 [suspenseful music] 663 00:33:40,894 --> 00:33:43,355 The jury has decided as follows: 664 00:33:44,565 --> 00:33:49,069 The jury has decided that the Defendants have inflicted on the Plaintiff 665 00:33:49,153 --> 00:33:51,739 extreme emotional distress. 666 00:33:51,822 --> 00:33:57,453 The jury awards the Plaintiff $10,900,000. 667 00:33:57,536 --> 00:34:01,540 $2.9 million in compensatory damages, 668 00:34:01,623 --> 00:34:04,460 $6 million, punitive damages, 669 00:34:04,543 --> 00:34:08,297 and $2 million for emotional distress. 670 00:34:08,380 --> 00:34:13,302 I thank the jury for their deliberation and consideration and for their service. 671 00:34:13,385 --> 00:34:14,762 This court is adjourned. 672 00:34:14,844 --> 00:34:16,929 [dramatic string music] 673 00:34:17,681 --> 00:34:18,766 [music ends] 674 00:34:18,849 --> 00:34:23,687 The Westboro Baptist Church kept on protesting military funerals, 675 00:34:23,771 --> 00:34:27,149 and appealed Snyder's $10.9 million verdict. 676 00:34:27,232 --> 00:34:30,860 Two years later, the judgment was overturned. 677 00:34:30,944 --> 00:34:35,114 And the appeals court adopted a new definition of vicious speech. 678 00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:38,409 The court ruled that speech in a public place, 679 00:34:38,494 --> 00:34:40,829 on a matter of public concern, 680 00:34:40,913 --> 00:34:44,625 should be protected speech under the First Amendment. 681 00:34:44,708 --> 00:34:47,585 This caused a huge public outroar. 682 00:34:47,668 --> 00:34:51,799 And the case went all the way to the Supreme Court of the United States. 683 00:34:53,132 --> 00:34:55,260 Counsel, note your appearance. 684 00:34:55,344 --> 00:34:57,262 Good morning, Judges. For the Appellant, 685 00:34:57,346 --> 00:35:00,557 the Westboro Baptist Church, I'm Dan Mentzer. 686 00:35:00,641 --> 00:35:02,392 Good morning, Your Honors, Larry Bakman 687 00:35:02,476 --> 00:35:05,354 on behalf of the Respondent, Albert Snyder. 688 00:35:05,437 --> 00:35:07,022 Mr. Mentzer, your opening statement. 689 00:35:07,105 --> 00:35:10,150 Thank you, Your Honor. The protest by my client 690 00:35:10,234 --> 00:35:14,321 of the funeral of Matthew Snyder was, to most of us, offensive. 691 00:35:14,404 --> 00:35:16,573 But you don't get to decide that. 692 00:35:16,657 --> 00:35:19,493 You don't have to decide that to decide this case. 693 00:35:19,576 --> 00:35:22,746 The controlling issue here is for Your Honors to decide 694 00:35:22,830 --> 00:35:27,543 whether or not the protest itself was aimed at the public, 695 00:35:27,626 --> 00:35:33,131 the military, or a private citizen, Matthew Snyder, and his father, Albert. 696 00:35:33,215 --> 00:35:35,634 And you don't have to look very deep to figure out 697 00:35:35,717 --> 00:35:38,011 where this protest was aimed. 698 00:35:38,095 --> 00:35:41,849 This protest, like every other protest my clients have been involved in 699 00:35:41,932 --> 00:35:44,685 in the last 20 years, is aimed at the military. 700 00:35:44,768 --> 00:35:47,813 That's why I urge this court to make a ruling here 701 00:35:47,896 --> 00:35:50,065 consistent with your rulings in the past, 702 00:35:50,148 --> 00:35:53,819 that speech involving matters of a public concern 703 00:35:53,902 --> 00:35:58,490 is protected, it's allowed. And yes, it comes at a cost. 704 00:35:58,574 --> 00:36:01,618 It comes at a cost that a guy like Albert Snyder, 705 00:36:01,702 --> 00:36:03,829 who gave so much for this country, 706 00:36:03,912 --> 00:36:07,499 who now has to go to his funeral and perhaps hear people 707 00:36:07,583 --> 00:36:11,169 sharing their ignorant, homophobic views. 708 00:36:11,253 --> 00:36:13,922 But yes, the First Amendment is that important 709 00:36:14,006 --> 00:36:15,883 to allow that type of speech. 710 00:36:15,966 --> 00:36:19,469 And that's why it's important that this court reverse that jury verdict, 711 00:36:19,553 --> 00:36:22,097 and give us our free speech back. 712 00:36:22,890 --> 00:36:24,141 Thank you. 713 00:36:25,350 --> 00:36:27,269 Mr. Bakman, do you wish to give a statement? 714 00:36:27,352 --> 00:36:29,021 -I do, Your Honor. -[Adam] Please. 715 00:36:30,814 --> 00:36:35,527 To reverse the jury verdict in this case at this time 716 00:36:35,611 --> 00:36:38,363 would be an abomination of justice. 717 00:36:38,447 --> 00:36:42,242 Westboro's conduct, their signage, 718 00:36:42,326 --> 00:36:44,953 their speech in this case, 719 00:36:45,037 --> 00:36:50,250 was directly targeted to Matt Snyder and his family. 720 00:36:50,334 --> 00:36:54,129 That is the only interpretation this court can draw 721 00:36:54,212 --> 00:36:58,967 from signage that said, "Thank God for dead soldiers," 722 00:36:59,051 --> 00:37:04,014 a thousand feet outside my client's funeral for his son. 723 00:37:04,097 --> 00:37:07,935 How this court could find that that type of signage 724 00:37:08,018 --> 00:37:13,440 is directed to the public at large as opposed to private citizens 725 00:37:13,523 --> 00:37:15,067 would be beyond belief. 726 00:37:15,150 --> 00:37:16,985 This is hate speech. 727 00:37:17,069 --> 00:37:21,949 Hate speech is not entitled to First Amendment protection. 728 00:37:22,032 --> 00:37:24,910 And for this court to rule otherwise 729 00:37:24,993 --> 00:37:29,206 would constitute a grave, grave injustice. 730 00:37:29,289 --> 00:37:33,502 I urge this court to uphold the jury verdict in this case 731 00:37:33,585 --> 00:37:36,630 and rule in favor of the Respondent, Albert Snyder. 732 00:37:36,713 --> 00:37:37,798 Thank you. 733 00:37:37,881 --> 00:37:39,007 Thank you, Mr. Bakman. 734 00:37:39,091 --> 00:37:41,718 We will now retire to deliberate. 735 00:37:41,802 --> 00:37:43,261 [suspenseful music] 736 00:37:45,889 --> 00:37:48,976 [Tanya] We have reached a unanimous verdict. 737 00:37:49,059 --> 00:37:53,897 The First Amendment does not apply only to our friends and speech we like. 738 00:37:53,981 --> 00:37:57,359 It protects speech that is sometimes vile and abhorrent, 739 00:37:57,442 --> 00:38:00,529 and that represents some of the worst tendencies in society. 740 00:38:00,612 --> 00:38:04,366 That their goal in life is to show up and protest the funerals 741 00:38:04,449 --> 00:38:07,577 of those who have given their lives in defense of this country 742 00:38:07,661 --> 00:38:10,580 does indeed shock the conscience. 743 00:38:10,664 --> 00:38:14,876 Respondent's son, Matthew Snyder, fought and gave his life 744 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,838 so that these bigots have the right to protest. 745 00:38:17,921 --> 00:38:19,548 We don't give short shrift to the pain 746 00:38:19,631 --> 00:38:22,009 that hate caused Respondent and his family. 747 00:38:22,092 --> 00:38:25,637 We honor Matthew's sacrifice, and our role as a court 748 00:38:25,721 --> 00:38:29,808 is to uphold the legal principles for which he fought and died. 749 00:38:29,891 --> 00:38:33,520 The situation is ironic, but his sacrifice was heroic. 750 00:38:33,603 --> 00:38:36,773 As repugnant as Appellant's speech may have been, 751 00:38:36,857 --> 00:38:40,027 it undoubtedly involved matters of public concern 752 00:38:40,110 --> 00:38:43,363 and is thus entitled to heightened First Amendment protection. 753 00:38:43,447 --> 00:38:45,282 Our ruling should not be construed 754 00:38:45,365 --> 00:38:47,909 as a tacit endorsement of Appellant's speech. 755 00:38:47,993 --> 00:38:51,496 It is because Matthew's sacrifice was so noble 756 00:38:51,580 --> 00:38:53,457 that we must look beyond that. 757 00:38:53,540 --> 00:38:57,669 This decision honors the work of those who have fought and died for this country, 758 00:38:57,753 --> 00:39:01,840 even if it shields from liability those hateful souls who attack them. 759 00:39:01,923 --> 00:39:06,136 The First Amendment does not just protect the good, the right, and the just. 760 00:39:06,219 --> 00:39:09,931 Sometimes, the First Amendment protects the fool and the bigot. 761 00:39:10,015 --> 00:39:11,558 So it does here. 762 00:39:11,641 --> 00:39:15,270 Our Constitution is bigger than the hatreds of those who would burn it. 763 00:39:15,353 --> 00:39:17,022 We must honor it. 764 00:39:17,105 --> 00:39:19,858 Therefore, we must reverse the jury's verdict 765 00:39:19,941 --> 00:39:22,903 and dismiss Respondent's claim against Appellants. 766 00:39:22,986 --> 00:39:25,155 [dramatic music] 767 00:39:41,379 --> 00:39:44,633 Balancing the right of Americans to freely voice their opinion 768 00:39:44,716 --> 00:39:46,843 is not without limitation. 769 00:39:46,927 --> 00:39:51,056 I have no doubt that the courts will forever act as an umpire 770 00:39:51,139 --> 00:39:56,394 as to what does and what does not qualify as protected free speech. 771 00:39:56,478 --> 00:40:02,109 Those changes will always come about through court cases just like this. 772 00:40:02,192 --> 00:40:03,401 [upbeat, quirky music] 773 00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:09,950 [closing theme music playing] 773 00:40:10,305 --> 00:41:10,762 Watch Online Movies and Series for FREE www.osdb.link/lm