"Mr. & Mrs. Murder" Cold-Blooded Justice?

1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:12,074 Watch Online Movies and Series for FREE www.osdb.link/lm 2 00:00:18,435 --> 00:00:20,436 <i> While Brian was in jail</i> 3 00:00:20,437 --> 00:00:23,439 <i>waiting for his trial for kidnapping Denise,</i> 4 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,567 <i>I visited about once a week.</i> 5 00:00:26,568 --> 00:00:28,444 He would constantly give me assignments-- 6 00:00:28,445 --> 00:00:30,947 buy this book for Stafford, buy him tickets 7 00:00:30,948 --> 00:00:33,116 to this Christian conference. 8 00:00:34,952 --> 00:00:37,537 <i>And then he started asking me</i> 9 00:00:37,538 --> 00:00:40,998 <i>if I could find someone who would say that Denise</i> 10 00:00:40,999 --> 00:00:44,126 <i>was having an affair.</i> 11 00:00:44,127 --> 00:00:45,254 Mama! 12 00:00:47,297 --> 00:00:49,715 <i>He wanted to discredit anything</i> 13 00:00:49,716 --> 00:00:52,176 <i>that she would say in the court case</i> 14 00:00:52,177 --> 00:00:54,388 <i>that was eventually gonna happen.</i> 15 00:00:57,557 --> 00:01:00,268 <i>You know, he's like, I'll give them $10,000</i> 16 00:01:00,269 --> 00:01:03,312 <i>to say they had an affair with Denise.</i> 17 00:01:03,313 --> 00:01:05,731 And I'm like, I'm not doing that for you. 18 00:01:05,732 --> 00:01:07,650 Like, I got four kids. 19 00:01:07,651 --> 00:01:09,944 If I do that for you, I'm gonna be where you are. 20 00:01:09,945 --> 00:01:13,030 Like, that's--no, we're not doing that. 21 00:01:25,752 --> 00:01:28,671 <i>Presently, we are at the Leon County Courthouse.</i> 22 00:01:28,672 --> 00:01:30,256 Would you please state your full name? 23 00:01:30,257 --> 00:01:31,882 My name is Wade Steven Wilson. 24 00:01:31,883 --> 00:01:35,052 Okay, I am FDLE Special Agent William Mickler. 25 00:01:35,053 --> 00:01:38,306 We got a call one day that said there was someone 26 00:01:38,307 --> 00:01:41,225 who had spent some time in the Leon County Jail 27 00:01:41,226 --> 00:01:43,644 that had come forward with some information 28 00:01:43,645 --> 00:01:46,523 related to Brian Winchester. 29 00:03:20,450 --> 00:03:22,576 <i>I got notified by the prosecutor</i> 30 00:03:22,577 --> 00:03:26,330 that Brian paid Wade Wilson to take care of Denise. 31 00:03:26,331 --> 00:03:28,207 Now, I don't know if that meant kill her, 32 00:03:28,208 --> 00:03:31,502 make her change her mind, or make her go away. 33 00:03:31,503 --> 00:03:33,963 <i>Those were serious allegations.</i> 34 00:03:33,964 --> 00:03:35,923 I'm thinking, we're screwed. We're done. 35 00:03:35,924 --> 00:03:39,093 <i>We can't go to trial, 'cause if the judge sees this,</i> 36 00:03:39,094 --> 00:03:40,719 he's gonna give him life. 37 00:03:46,184 --> 00:03:49,895 Denise, I can tell that she is nervous. 38 00:03:49,896 --> 00:03:52,606 <i>She was very afraid that Brian</i> 39 00:03:52,607 --> 00:03:56,485 <i>was going to come for her if he got out.</i> 40 00:03:56,486 --> 00:04:00,739 But then we heard that Brian was going to do a plea deal 41 00:04:00,740 --> 00:04:02,741 so there wouldn't be a trial. 42 00:04:02,742 --> 00:04:04,952 He would just plead guilty to it. 43 00:04:27,517 --> 00:04:29,226 Start by stating your name, please? 44 00:04:29,227 --> 00:04:30,644 Denise Williams. 45 00:04:30,645 --> 00:04:32,271 All right, do you wish to make a statement 46 00:04:32,272 --> 00:04:34,023 to the court, Ms. Williams? - Yes. 47 00:04:34,024 --> 00:04:35,025 You may. 48 00:04:38,445 --> 00:04:41,280 Your Honor, I'm here today to ask you to sentence 49 00:04:41,281 --> 00:04:44,366 Brian Winchester to the maximum penalty under the law 50 00:04:44,367 --> 00:04:46,577 for the crimes that he committed against me 51 00:04:46,578 --> 00:04:48,538 on August the 5th, 2016. 52 00:04:51,500 --> 00:04:54,293 He took my sense of security 53 00:04:54,294 --> 00:04:55,920 and safety from me. 54 00:04:55,921 --> 00:04:59,048 I live each day with the fear of his retaliation 55 00:04:59,049 --> 00:05:01,468 for my decision to tell. 56 00:05:02,761 --> 00:05:05,012 He will finish what he has started 57 00:05:05,013 --> 00:05:08,599 no matter what age he is when he's released. 58 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,353 For all of these reasons, I'm asking you 59 00:05:12,354 --> 00:05:13,813 to sentence him to life in prison 60 00:05:13,814 --> 00:05:15,731 for the crimes he has committed. 61 00:05:15,732 --> 00:05:18,859 It comes down to my life or his. 62 00:05:18,860 --> 00:05:22,655 And I am asking you, please, choose mine. 63 00:05:22,656 --> 00:05:24,281 Thank you. 64 00:05:24,282 --> 00:05:25,574 Thank you, ma'am. 65 00:05:42,384 --> 00:05:45,219 <i>From my perspective, 20 years</i> 66 00:05:45,220 --> 00:05:48,806 and doing something to Denise wasn't what 67 00:05:48,807 --> 00:05:51,976 he should be in prison for. 68 00:05:51,977 --> 00:05:57,690 <i>There was sort of this feeling of dread.</i> 69 00:05:57,691 --> 00:06:00,484 Now I didn't know if we would ever find out 70 00:06:00,485 --> 00:06:02,070 what happened to Mike. 71 00:06:19,004 --> 00:06:21,380 <i>Over half of my career was involved</i> 72 00:06:21,381 --> 00:06:22,965 <i>with the Mike Williams case.</i> 73 00:06:22,966 --> 00:06:24,174 It was a cold case. 74 00:06:24,175 --> 00:06:26,719 It's--sometimes it's just waiting out people. 75 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,554 Sometimes you're just waiting for someone 76 00:06:28,555 --> 00:06:30,556 to finally step up and say, hey, I know something 77 00:06:30,557 --> 00:06:32,224 I've been sitting on for a long time. 78 00:06:34,269 --> 00:06:36,770 With this case, the idea was always, 79 00:06:36,771 --> 00:06:38,314 we're waiting for that one crack, 80 00:06:38,315 --> 00:06:40,400 you know, be it either with Denise or Brian. 81 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,613 <i>When all that came out with Wade Wilson</i> 82 00:06:45,614 --> 00:06:47,781 <i>on the kidnapping case,</i> 83 00:06:47,782 --> 00:06:49,909 it would have added other charges, 84 00:06:49,910 --> 00:06:51,660 like tampering with witnesses, 85 00:06:51,661 --> 00:06:54,622 interfering with an investigation. 86 00:06:54,623 --> 00:06:56,916 <i>That really put the pressure on Brian.</i> 87 00:07:00,462 --> 00:07:01,754 <i> One day I went to go</i> 88 00:07:01,755 --> 00:07:04,673 <i>visit Brian in jail, and he told me,</i> 89 00:07:04,674 --> 00:07:09,428 I'll be in big trouble unless I tell him-- 90 00:07:09,429 --> 00:07:12,514 unless I tell him what I know about Mike. 91 00:07:12,515 --> 00:07:16,268 I snapped the minute he said Mike's name, because I'm like, 92 00:07:16,269 --> 00:07:19,688 you fucking know where he is. 93 00:07:19,689 --> 00:07:21,398 You know what happened. 94 00:07:21,399 --> 00:07:24,777 And you have kept it quiet for 17 years. 95 00:07:24,778 --> 00:07:28,323 I said, that mother has every right to know where her son is. 96 00:07:29,949 --> 00:07:32,284 <i>The state was doing everything they could</i> 97 00:07:32,285 --> 00:07:34,870 <i>to get all the evidence they wanted from Brian</i> 98 00:07:34,871 --> 00:07:37,081 <i>about Mike Williams.</i> 99 00:07:37,082 --> 00:07:43,337 And so we started negotiating a deal. 100 00:07:43,338 --> 00:07:46,799 <i>We built up this agreement that anything he gave him</i> 101 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,719 about Mike Williams couldn't be used against him. 102 00:07:51,304 --> 00:07:52,680 <i>We offered immunity on anything</i> 103 00:07:52,681 --> 00:07:54,223 <i>to do with the Mike Williams case,</i> 104 00:07:54,224 --> 00:07:58,060 if he had information leading to a prosecution or to a body. 105 00:08:01,940 --> 00:08:03,440 <i>We received a phone call</i> 106 00:08:03,441 --> 00:08:05,025 <i>from the state attorney's office</i> 107 00:08:05,026 --> 00:08:08,237 asking us if we could be in their office that afternoon. 108 00:08:08,238 --> 00:08:10,698 That's when we were told that Brian 109 00:08:10,699 --> 00:08:11,783 was gonna give a statement. 110 00:08:14,452 --> 00:08:19,415 <i>So 2:12 on October 9th of 2017.</i> 111 00:08:19,416 --> 00:08:20,749 <i>This is Tully Sparkman,</i> 112 00:08:20,750 --> 00:08:22,377 <i>Investigator for the State Attorney's Office.</i> 113 00:09:00,123 --> 00:09:02,207 After receiving new information, 114 00:09:02,208 --> 00:09:05,252 FDLE's Crime Scene unit and special agents 115 00:09:05,253 --> 00:09:07,755 <i>spent days conducting an extensive search.</i> 116 00:09:41,498 --> 00:09:44,875 <i>That search led to the recovery of human remains,</i> 117 00:09:44,876 --> 00:09:47,002 <i>and FDLE's crime laboratory analyst</i> 118 00:09:47,003 --> 00:09:49,004 confirmed that the human remains 119 00:09:49,005 --> 00:09:50,465 are those of Mike Williams. 120 00:09:56,304 --> 00:10:00,725 It was in here where we finally found the grave. 121 00:10:03,144 --> 00:10:07,816 Seventeen years did not hide how Mike Williams died. 122 00:10:09,484 --> 00:10:12,528 Forensic analysis concluded that Mike Williams 123 00:10:12,529 --> 00:10:14,072 was, in fact, murdered. 124 00:10:18,576 --> 00:10:20,285 <i>Our focus has shifted to bringing</i> 125 00:10:20,286 --> 00:10:23,163 <i>those responsible for his death to justice.</i> 126 00:10:23,164 --> 00:10:26,292 And we will not stop until that is done. 127 00:10:33,424 --> 00:10:35,175 We can't put a time frame on it, 128 00:10:35,176 --> 00:10:37,261 but we will work diligently to get it done, 129 00:10:37,262 --> 00:10:38,763 to finally bring a conclusion to this. 130 00:10:41,683 --> 00:10:44,810 We--we're not releasing those details as well. 131 00:10:44,811 --> 00:10:46,728 <i>At that point, all the public knew</i> 132 00:10:46,729 --> 00:10:49,648 is that we had recovered Mike Williams' body. 133 00:10:49,649 --> 00:10:51,024 They didn't know how we did it. 134 00:10:51,025 --> 00:10:53,068 They didn't know when we did it. 135 00:10:53,069 --> 00:10:55,654 <i>We didn't wanna tip our hand as to what we had,</i> 136 00:10:55,655 --> 00:10:59,116 <i>because it would greatly impede us</i> 137 00:10:59,117 --> 00:11:01,201 <i>from further investigation</i> 138 00:11:01,202 --> 00:11:05,497 and charging anyone else that was responsible for his death. 139 00:11:05,498 --> 00:11:06,999 Thank you very much. 140 00:11:17,510 --> 00:11:20,889 Finally, we knew something tangible and real. 141 00:11:24,309 --> 00:11:27,311 <i>Special Agent Will Mickler called me.</i> 142 00:11:27,312 --> 00:11:29,606 And I asked him, what happened? 143 00:11:32,025 --> 00:11:37,530 Did he suffer, you know, in those last moments? 144 00:11:39,282 --> 00:11:43,368 I think Will just kind of didn't have the heart 145 00:11:43,369 --> 00:11:46,289 to tell me in that moment. 146 00:11:50,418 --> 00:11:53,003 <i>Mike's body had been found in close proximity</i> 147 00:11:53,004 --> 00:11:56,507 <i>to areas that I had spent a lot of time hunting.</i> 148 00:11:58,426 --> 00:12:02,304 So it was--it was pretty gut-wrenching 149 00:12:02,305 --> 00:12:07,225 to know that for seven or eight years, I sat-- 150 00:12:07,226 --> 00:12:12,481 I sat probably 75 to a hundred yards 151 00:12:12,482 --> 00:12:16,985 from Mike's body, uh, from my best friend. 152 00:12:21,199 --> 00:12:25,410 So it was, um... 153 00:12:25,411 --> 00:12:27,330 that was a tough day. 154 00:12:35,922 --> 00:12:37,839 <i>Prior to the press conference,</i> 155 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,177 <i>I was assigned to go speak with Denise.</i> 156 00:12:43,137 --> 00:12:46,683 Her eyes got a little teary, but that was all. 157 00:12:49,477 --> 00:12:51,728 <i>If this was a loved one of mine,</i> 158 00:12:51,729 --> 00:12:55,649 I would wanna know, you know, where and how did you find him? 159 00:12:55,650 --> 00:12:57,235 And how do you know it's Mike? 160 00:12:59,612 --> 00:13:01,697 She didn't ask anything about it. 161 00:13:12,208 --> 00:13:17,796 <i>As the months go on, I started to feel frustration.</i> 162 00:13:17,797 --> 00:13:21,967 <i>I had expected someone to be arrested</i> 163 00:13:21,968 --> 00:13:23,761 <i>for what happened to Mike.</i> 164 00:13:26,806 --> 00:13:30,809 I knew it was either Brian or Denise, I'll say that. 165 00:13:30,810 --> 00:13:32,644 I didn't think it was anybody else. 166 00:13:32,645 --> 00:13:38,651 But I just didn't know which one of them had done it. 167 00:13:41,362 --> 00:13:44,990 <i>I felt they were both capable of it.</i> 168 00:13:44,991 --> 00:13:47,075 <i>She knew how to shoot a shotgun,</i> 169 00:13:47,076 --> 00:13:48,411 <i>and there was a shotgun in the home.</i> 170 00:13:51,456 --> 00:13:56,877 Whatever it was, I knew that Denise knew what happened. 171 00:14:02,091 --> 00:14:06,179 And so one day, I called Will Mickler. 172 00:14:08,890 --> 00:14:11,641 <i> Kathy disclosed to us</i> 173 00:14:11,642 --> 00:14:15,145 that shortly after Brian's arrest for the kidnapping, 174 00:14:15,146 --> 00:14:17,606 Denise had called Kathy 175 00:14:17,607 --> 00:14:21,234 and told Kathy to relay a message. 176 00:14:21,235 --> 00:14:23,987 She says, Kathy, are you still going out 177 00:14:23,988 --> 00:14:25,489 to talk to Marcus tonight? 178 00:14:25,490 --> 00:14:27,449 And I said, yeah, I'm on my way there now. 179 00:14:27,450 --> 00:14:33,580 <i>And she says, well, I need you to tell Marcus</i> 180 00:14:33,581 --> 00:14:38,293 <i>to tell Brian that I'm not talking.</i> 181 00:14:38,294 --> 00:14:42,005 There's only one reason you need to get a message 182 00:14:42,006 --> 00:14:45,133 to someone in jail that you're not talking. 183 00:14:45,134 --> 00:14:49,679 And that is, I'm keeping our secret. 184 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,515 <i> This was huge.</i> 185 00:14:51,516 --> 00:14:54,142 Kathy had given us a breadcrumb there 186 00:14:54,143 --> 00:14:57,354 that we could pick up and run with. 187 00:14:57,355 --> 00:15:01,149 <i>And so now we needed to do something</i> 188 00:15:01,150 --> 00:15:07,531 to elicit some type of criminal liability from Denise. 189 00:15:07,532 --> 00:15:11,619 So I had to record her saying that. 190 00:15:13,621 --> 00:15:16,957 <i>She knew me as well as I knew her.</i> 191 00:15:16,958 --> 00:15:19,919 <i>So I had to be very careful.</i> 192 00:15:21,712 --> 00:15:23,798 I knew I would have one shot. 193 00:15:36,477 --> 00:15:38,770 <i> Denise's mother passed away,</i> 194 00:15:38,771 --> 00:15:43,358 <i>and I came to Tallahassee to go to the service.</i> 195 00:15:43,359 --> 00:15:45,652 <i>I'm driving home,</i> 196 00:15:45,653 --> 00:15:51,575 <i>and my plan was to call her from my cell phone.</i> 197 00:15:51,576 --> 00:15:53,660 <i>We came up with a scenario</i> 198 00:15:53,661 --> 00:15:58,039 that Kathy was served with an investigative subpoena 199 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:03,296 <i>to provide testimony regarding the Mike Williams murder.</i> 200 00:16:05,798 --> 00:16:09,009 <i> My heart is just racing.</i> 201 00:16:09,010 --> 00:16:12,179 I can still remember that feeling right now 202 00:16:12,180 --> 00:16:15,056 of just my heart just thumping out of my chest. 203 00:17:52,071 --> 00:17:54,072 <i>Kathy did a wonderful job.</i> 204 00:17:54,073 --> 00:17:56,783 <i>That recording confirmed that there</i> 205 00:17:56,784 --> 00:17:59,369 <i>was some type of pact or agreement</i> 206 00:17:59,370 --> 00:18:02,706 <i>between Denise and Brian.</i> 207 00:18:02,707 --> 00:18:05,334 It was a major breaking moment for us. 208 00:18:17,179 --> 00:18:19,432 <i> It was Anslee's birthday.</i> 209 00:18:23,978 --> 00:18:26,146 <i>Me and Denise had been texting</i> 210 00:18:26,147 --> 00:18:29,065 <i>about what their plans were.</i> 211 00:18:29,066 --> 00:18:32,694 Denise was planning to take her to a nice dinner. 212 00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:39,492 <i> My phone rings, and it's one</i> 213 00:18:39,493 --> 00:18:42,287 <i>of my law enforcement sources.</i> 214 00:18:42,288 --> 00:18:45,332 <i>And they say, hey, there's gonna be, like,</i> 215 00:18:45,333 --> 00:18:49,170 a law enforcement rodeo down at FSU this afternoon. 216 00:18:53,215 --> 00:18:57,928 I was like, oh, okay, is this what I think it's gonna be? 217 00:19:03,601 --> 00:19:05,101 <i>Denise sent me a picture</i> 218 00:19:05,102 --> 00:19:08,230 of Anslee's birthday cake, and it was beautiful. 219 00:19:15,988 --> 00:19:20,950 <i>And within just moments of her sending me that picture,</i> 220 00:19:20,951 --> 00:19:23,244 <i>Will Mickler calls me.</i> 221 00:19:23,245 --> 00:19:25,997 And he said, Kathy, I just wanted to let you know 222 00:19:25,998 --> 00:19:28,541 that Denise has been arrested. 223 00:19:48,688 --> 00:19:50,480 <i>After all of these years,</i> 224 00:19:50,481 --> 00:19:53,358 that was the first time I'd ever, like, 225 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,985 put a question to Denise. 226 00:19:55,986 --> 00:20:00,448 I wanted Denise to be thinking about Cheryl Williams 227 00:20:00,449 --> 00:20:03,952 <i>when she got in the police car.</i> 228 00:20:06,789 --> 00:20:10,166 <i>Authorities arrested a widow, Denise Williams,</i> 229 00:20:10,167 --> 00:20:13,586 <i>for her husband's murder nearly 20 years ago.</i> 230 00:20:13,587 --> 00:20:17,465 <i>Authorities only found his remains five months ago.</i> 231 00:20:23,556 --> 00:20:25,974 <i> We were downtown.</i> 232 00:20:25,975 --> 00:20:30,061 And all of the sudden, my kids come running to me, 233 00:20:30,062 --> 00:20:37,110 and they're like, Mom, no, they just arrested Denise. 234 00:20:37,111 --> 00:20:39,529 Sorry. 235 00:20:39,530 --> 00:20:44,617 God, even after all this, it's just so surreal. 236 00:20:44,618 --> 00:20:47,036 It just made no sense. 237 00:20:52,877 --> 00:20:56,337 It was unbelievable. 238 00:20:56,338 --> 00:21:00,550 <i>I hated it for being Anslee's birthday.</i> 239 00:21:00,551 --> 00:21:03,094 <i>I hated that.</i> 240 00:21:03,095 --> 00:21:07,432 But at the same time, she doesn't realize 241 00:21:07,433 --> 00:21:11,311 <i>what's been taken from her and her father.</i> 242 00:21:11,312 --> 00:21:16,317 <i>So for Mike, I felt relief.</i> 243 00:21:25,868 --> 00:21:27,786 It's such a relief. 244 00:21:38,005 --> 00:21:39,464 <i> A trial has started</i> 245 00:21:39,465 --> 00:21:40,799 <i>involving a Tallahassee woman</i> 246 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,342 <i>accused of plotting her husband's death</i> 247 00:21:42,343 --> 00:21:44,344 <i>in order to claim his insurance...</i> 248 00:21:44,345 --> 00:21:45,929 <i>48-year-old Denise Williams faces life in prison</i> 249 00:21:45,930 --> 00:21:47,555 <i>for her former husband's murder</i> 250 00:21:47,556 --> 00:21:48,974 <i>and an 18-year-long cover-up.</i> 251 00:21:51,227 --> 00:21:54,854 Ms. Williams is charged with conspiracy 252 00:21:54,855 --> 00:21:56,815 to commit first-degree murder-- 253 00:21:56,816 --> 00:22:00,735 uh, first-degree murder and accessory after the fact 254 00:22:00,736 --> 00:22:02,362 to first-degree murder. 255 00:22:02,363 --> 00:22:03,821 Your Honor, at this time, the State 256 00:22:03,822 --> 00:22:05,949 would call Brian Winchester. 257 00:22:26,428 --> 00:22:27,513 Yes, sir. 258 00:22:29,723 --> 00:22:34,061 The date that we used was October 13, 1997. 259 00:22:37,189 --> 00:22:40,233 Then it snowballed really fast. 260 00:22:40,234 --> 00:22:43,570 <i>We started meeting whenever we had the opportunity</i> 261 00:22:43,571 --> 00:22:46,198 <i>and having sex very regularly.</i> 262 00:22:49,577 --> 00:22:51,495 <i>We spent a lot of time together.</i> 263 00:23:04,592 --> 00:23:06,217 Yes, sir. 264 00:23:06,218 --> 00:23:09,512 We eventually started talking about options and ways 265 00:23:09,513 --> 00:23:11,180 that we could be together. 266 00:23:11,181 --> 00:23:17,729 And Denise, because of the way she was raised, 267 00:23:17,730 --> 00:23:21,025 she did not want to get divorced... 268 00:23:23,694 --> 00:23:26,530 <i>Which narrowed the options.</i> 269 00:23:31,243 --> 00:23:32,827 I instigated a lot of it. 270 00:23:32,828 --> 00:23:34,537 I helped come up with ideas. 271 00:23:34,538 --> 00:23:37,040 <i>But overall, it was very mutual.</i> 272 00:23:37,041 --> 00:23:40,001 <i>We wanted to be together.</i> 273 00:23:40,002 --> 00:23:43,880 And we weren't gonna let anything stop that. 274 00:23:52,514 --> 00:23:55,058 One of the options was Mike and I 275 00:23:55,059 --> 00:23:58,061 going on a hunting trip together 276 00:23:58,062 --> 00:24:02,524 and there being an accident where he drowned and I did not. 277 00:24:06,111 --> 00:24:08,363 <i>We could feel better about ourselves</i> 278 00:24:08,364 --> 00:24:12,660 if there was a chance that he could make it out of it. 279 00:24:14,453 --> 00:24:19,040 <i>You know, well, it'll be up to God what happens and not us.</i> 280 00:24:19,041 --> 00:24:20,333 <i>It won't be a murder.</i> 281 00:24:20,334 --> 00:24:23,461 <i>It'll be, you know, an accident.</i> 282 00:24:31,053 --> 00:24:34,347 After Anslee was born, he and I talked 283 00:24:34,348 --> 00:24:36,433 about increasing his coverage. 284 00:24:38,143 --> 00:24:41,938 <i>It was a combination of Denise and I</i> 285 00:24:41,939 --> 00:24:45,358 talking about him having more coverage. 286 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,444 <i>And he eventually, I think, with Denise's encouragement,</i> 287 00:24:48,445 --> 00:24:50,488 <i>decided to go ahead and get that extra</i> 288 00:24:50,489 --> 00:24:51,990 <i>million-dollar policy.</i> 289 00:24:58,247 --> 00:24:59,289 Yes, sir. 290 00:25:01,959 --> 00:25:04,043 <i>The plan was that all of this would occur</i> 291 00:25:04,044 --> 00:25:05,587 <i>very early in the morning.</i> 292 00:25:08,424 --> 00:25:10,341 <i>I had told him that we were gonna</i> 293 00:25:10,342 --> 00:25:15,097 go to a secret, special spot to go hunting. 294 00:25:18,976 --> 00:25:24,856 <i>We headed out, and there was a deep area.</i> 295 00:25:24,857 --> 00:25:26,983 I got him to stand up, 296 00:25:26,984 --> 00:25:30,070 and when he did, I pushed him into the water. 297 00:25:44,168 --> 00:25:47,671 <i>He was, like, struggling.</i> 298 00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:51,424 <i>What I eventually realized was,</i> 299 00:25:51,425 --> 00:25:54,470 <i>he was taking his waders and jacket off.</i> 300 00:25:58,098 --> 00:26:00,892 <i>That area of the lake had a lot of dead trees</i> 301 00:26:00,893 --> 00:26:02,936 <i>that come up out of the water.</i> 302 00:26:08,275 --> 00:26:12,988 And he swam over to one of those stumps and held on to it. 303 00:26:15,407 --> 00:26:17,658 And he was panicking, 304 00:26:17,659 --> 00:26:20,411 and I was panicking. 305 00:26:20,412 --> 00:26:22,747 And none of this was, like, going the way 306 00:26:22,748 --> 00:26:24,541 how I thought it was gonna go. 307 00:26:28,629 --> 00:26:31,173 And I didn't-- I didn't know what to do. 308 00:26:33,425 --> 00:26:34,510 But, um... 309 00:26:38,013 --> 00:26:40,057 He was--he started to yell. 310 00:26:45,771 --> 00:26:47,313 And I didn't know-- I didn't know-- 311 00:26:47,314 --> 00:26:49,983 I didn't know how to get out of that situation. 312 00:26:56,365 --> 00:27:00,035 And so I had my gun in the boat. 313 00:27:05,207 --> 00:27:10,044 And, uh, so I loaded my gun. 314 00:27:10,045 --> 00:27:11,754 And I just-- 315 00:27:11,755 --> 00:27:15,717 I made one or two circles around. 316 00:27:19,596 --> 00:27:25,352 And I ended up circling closer towards him. 317 00:27:27,729 --> 00:27:31,232 And he was in the water. 318 00:27:31,233 --> 00:27:35,070 And as I passed by, I shot him. 319 00:27:40,492 --> 00:27:41,784 In the head. 320 00:27:48,584 --> 00:27:53,046 <i>I knew I couldn't leave him there, being shot.</i> 321 00:27:55,215 --> 00:28:00,177 <i>I reached down, and he wasn't far under the water.</i> 322 00:28:00,178 --> 00:28:02,972 And I grabbed ahold of him. 323 00:28:02,973 --> 00:28:06,934 And... 324 00:28:06,935 --> 00:28:09,521 <i>I drug him in the water.</i> 325 00:28:11,607 --> 00:28:14,735 <i>I ended up putting him in the back of my Suburban.</i> 326 00:28:16,695 --> 00:28:20,031 I was just panicked as to getting out of that area 327 00:28:20,032 --> 00:28:22,075 and covering this up. 328 00:28:23,994 --> 00:28:25,953 <i>The plan was for his death to occur,</i> 329 00:28:25,954 --> 00:28:29,582 <i>but it was not for it to occur in the way that it did.</i> 330 00:28:29,583 --> 00:28:31,877 <i>And I didn't wanna tell Denise that.</i> 331 00:28:34,546 --> 00:28:37,340 <i>It was not easy.</i> 332 00:28:37,341 --> 00:28:38,967 <i>And it was not pretty.</i> 333 00:28:41,261 --> 00:28:43,846 <i>But I had to make it happen.</i> 334 00:28:43,847 --> 00:28:45,806 <i>I mean, I had no choice.</i> 335 00:28:58,111 --> 00:28:59,779 That would be a good time-- 336 00:28:59,780 --> 00:29:02,531 Could we take 10 minutes? 337 00:29:11,333 --> 00:29:14,669 <i>I guess I imagined that Mike's last moment</i> 338 00:29:14,670 --> 00:29:18,215 wouldn't have been the way it was. 339 00:29:21,093 --> 00:29:27,431 <i>Mike knew that Brian was the one doing that to him.</i> 340 00:29:27,432 --> 00:29:31,727 <i>And Mike loved Brian like a brother.</i> 341 00:29:31,728 --> 00:29:34,064 <i>My heart just broke.</i> 342 00:29:41,655 --> 00:29:43,489 <i> Today is the second full day</i> 343 00:29:43,490 --> 00:29:45,032 <i>of trial for Denise Williams.</i> 344 00:29:45,033 --> 00:29:47,159 <i>Today started with the cross-examination</i> 345 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,162 <i>of the State's main witness, Brian Winchester.</i> 346 00:29:50,163 --> 00:29:53,040 <i>Saying ultimately, that she's the one</i> 347 00:29:53,041 --> 00:29:55,043 <i>that planned that murder.</i> 348 00:29:56,461 --> 00:29:59,588 When you shot Mike Williams at Lake Seminole with 349 00:29:59,589 --> 00:30:01,340 a 12-gauge shotgun, was Denise Williams 350 00:30:01,341 --> 00:30:02,341 standing there with you? 351 00:30:02,342 --> 00:30:03,426 No, she wasn't. 352 00:30:03,427 --> 00:30:06,053 She was in my head, behind me. 353 00:30:06,054 --> 00:30:07,263 She was in your head? 354 00:30:07,264 --> 00:30:08,305 Mm-hmm. 355 00:30:13,103 --> 00:30:14,812 Is it fair to say that over the years, 356 00:30:14,813 --> 00:30:17,606 you've been obsessed with Denise Williams? 357 00:30:17,607 --> 00:30:20,359 Denise and I were best friends. 358 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:21,986 We were Bonnie and Clyde. 359 00:30:21,987 --> 00:30:23,905 We were partners in crime. 360 00:30:25,532 --> 00:30:28,534 <i>In this case, we're blaming Denise for some idea,</i> 361 00:30:28,535 --> 00:30:32,663 some unproven idea about her involvement 362 00:30:32,664 --> 00:30:34,248 in the murder of Mike Williams. 363 00:30:34,249 --> 00:30:36,876 <i>That is based solely on the testimony</i> 364 00:30:36,877 --> 00:30:40,004 <i>of the person who did the killing.</i> 365 00:30:40,005 --> 00:30:42,006 The penalty for the armed kidnapping 366 00:30:42,007 --> 00:30:43,591 is life in prison, isn't it? 367 00:30:43,592 --> 00:30:45,051 Yes, sir. 368 00:30:45,052 --> 00:30:46,385 And you made a deal with the government 369 00:30:46,386 --> 00:30:48,971 not to get that life sentence? 370 00:30:48,972 --> 00:30:50,264 You're terming it a deal. 371 00:30:50,265 --> 00:30:53,184 It was a proffer agreement. 372 00:30:53,185 --> 00:30:57,730 <i>The way Brian described the events of Mike's murder,</i> 373 00:30:57,731 --> 00:30:59,023 <i>it would have made him eligible</i> 374 00:30:59,024 --> 00:31:00,441 <i>for the death penalty.</i> 375 00:31:00,442 --> 00:31:02,234 <i>But once they got the body,</i> 376 00:31:02,235 --> 00:31:04,945 he could never be prosecuted for murder, 377 00:31:04,946 --> 00:31:09,200 <i>because that was protected by the immunity deal.</i> 378 00:31:09,201 --> 00:31:12,620 <i>It was Denise that the government was trying to prove</i> 379 00:31:12,621 --> 00:31:15,581 <i>that she wanted him killed for the insurance money.</i> 380 00:31:15,582 --> 00:31:19,293 Sometimes you have to make a deal with the devil 381 00:31:19,294 --> 00:31:22,297 to get the one you think should be prosecuted. 382 00:31:23,757 --> 00:31:26,300 Mr. Winchester, you're a murderer, isn't it true? 383 00:31:26,301 --> 00:31:27,885 Yes, sir. 384 00:31:27,886 --> 00:31:29,678 Mr. Winchester, you're a liar, isn't it true? 385 00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:30,680 Yes, sir. 386 00:31:32,474 --> 00:31:34,016 I have nothing else, Your Honor. 387 00:31:34,017 --> 00:31:35,017 Redirect. 388 00:31:35,018 --> 00:31:36,228 Yes, Your Honor. 389 00:31:40,774 --> 00:31:42,274 <i>Do you swear that the testimony</i> 390 00:31:42,275 --> 00:31:44,026 <i>you're about to give is the truth,</i> 391 00:31:44,027 --> 00:31:45,361 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? 392 00:31:45,362 --> 00:31:46,445 I do. 393 00:31:46,446 --> 00:31:49,281 You can have a seat. 394 00:31:49,282 --> 00:31:53,285 <i>I wanna fast forward now to August of 2016.</i> 395 00:31:53,286 --> 00:31:55,955 Did you ever confront Denise 396 00:31:55,956 --> 00:31:59,667 about what she asked you to do that week after the kidnapping? 397 00:31:59,668 --> 00:32:01,377 Yes, I did. 398 00:32:01,378 --> 00:32:03,254 <i>Did you record that conversation?</i> 399 00:32:03,255 --> 00:32:04,547 <i>Yes, sir.</i> 400 00:32:04,548 --> 00:32:06,298 <i>I know that you know something, Denise,</i> 401 00:32:06,299 --> 00:32:08,843 <i>because whenever I was going out to see Marcus,</i> 402 00:32:08,844 --> 00:32:13,639 <i>you're like, tell Marcus to tell Brian I'm not talking.</i> 403 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:14,974 <i>Yeah.</i> 404 00:32:14,975 --> 00:32:16,392 <i> And I knew what that meant.</i> 405 00:32:16,393 --> 00:32:18,561 She never looked at me. 406 00:32:18,562 --> 00:32:20,855 We never made eye contact. 407 00:32:20,856 --> 00:32:24,108 <i>It's hard to know what she was thinking.</i> 408 00:32:24,109 --> 00:32:28,112 <i>I'm sure she was pretty angry with me,</i> 409 00:32:28,113 --> 00:32:31,031 knowing what the evidence was at that point. 410 00:32:31,032 --> 00:32:32,658 <i> The smoking gun.</i> 411 00:32:32,659 --> 00:32:33,868 <i> At the end of the day,</i> 412 00:32:33,869 --> 00:32:35,745 <i>did she really admit anything?</i> 413 00:33:33,887 --> 00:33:36,180 <i> I was watching the jurors,</i> 414 00:33:36,181 --> 00:33:39,642 <i>and they were pretty riveted to what Brian was saying.</i> 415 00:33:39,643 --> 00:33:41,977 <i>And they were looking across the room</i> 416 00:33:41,978 --> 00:33:43,604 <i>at the defendant's table,</i> 417 00:33:43,605 --> 00:33:45,356 and they're not seeing Denise having 418 00:33:45,357 --> 00:33:48,442 really much reaction at all. 419 00:33:48,443 --> 00:33:49,902 And they're making decisions based on 420 00:33:49,903 --> 00:33:52,112 what they see and hear. 421 00:33:57,786 --> 00:34:00,579 <i>I expected that it would be several days</i> 422 00:34:00,580 --> 00:34:03,082 <i>before the jury would be wrapped up.</i> 423 00:34:03,083 --> 00:34:05,709 So I had gone to the airport 424 00:34:05,710 --> 00:34:08,170 to go back to North Carolina that evening. 425 00:34:16,471 --> 00:34:19,431 State of Florida versus Denise Williams, 426 00:34:19,432 --> 00:34:23,102 we, the jury, find as follows. 427 00:34:23,103 --> 00:34:28,065 <i>I'm going through the security check line,</i> 428 00:34:28,066 --> 00:34:31,443 and I get a text. 429 00:34:31,444 --> 00:34:36,615 And the text says, "Kathy, thank God." 430 00:34:36,616 --> 00:34:40,744 I knew just what those three words meant. 431 00:34:40,745 --> 00:34:43,998 Count 1 of the indictment, the defendant 432 00:34:43,999 --> 00:34:48,168 is guilty of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder. 433 00:34:57,095 --> 00:35:00,389 As to count 2, we, the jury, find the defendant 434 00:35:00,390 --> 00:35:02,600 is guilty of first-degree murder. 435 00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:07,813 Count 3 of the indictment, the defendant 436 00:35:07,814 --> 00:35:10,482 is guilty of accessory after the fact 437 00:35:10,483 --> 00:35:11,860 of first-degree murder. 438 00:35:14,446 --> 00:35:18,407 What just happened? 439 00:35:24,456 --> 00:35:26,624 <i>I had a guttural reaction.</i> 440 00:35:28,918 --> 00:35:30,336 I wasn't crying for Mike. 441 00:35:30,337 --> 00:35:32,212 I wasn't crying for Denise or Brian. 442 00:35:32,213 --> 00:35:36,633 I was--I was crying for Stafford and Anslee. 443 00:35:36,634 --> 00:35:41,221 <i>Because it struck me, Anslee's father was murdered</i> 444 00:35:41,222 --> 00:35:43,892 and she was raised by the people who did it. 445 00:35:46,895 --> 00:35:48,812 <i> When I go to bed at night</i> 446 00:35:48,813 --> 00:35:51,940 <i>and I try to go to sleep,</i> 447 00:35:51,941 --> 00:35:57,321 I see Michael clinging to that stump in the lake. 448 00:35:57,322 --> 00:36:01,451 And I hear him calling, help, help. 449 00:36:29,437 --> 00:36:32,815 <i>He killed his best friend, point blank,</i> 450 00:36:32,816 --> 00:36:35,610 to get the woman he always wanted. 451 00:36:37,779 --> 00:36:43,701 And then in the ultimate, ultimate chess move, 452 00:36:43,702 --> 00:36:47,579 <i>took a plea bargain and said, but she had me do it</i> 453 00:36:47,580 --> 00:36:50,874 and put her away for the rest of her life. 454 00:36:50,875 --> 00:36:54,711 Ms. Williams, I sentence you to life in prison. 455 00:36:54,712 --> 00:36:57,673 A Tallahassee woman was sentenced to life in prison 456 00:36:57,674 --> 00:36:59,925 <i>this morning for masterminding the murder of her husband</i> 457 00:36:59,926 --> 00:37:01,802 <i>more than 18 years ago.</i> 458 00:37:05,515 --> 00:37:08,225 <i>It's over.</i> 459 00:37:08,226 --> 00:37:11,186 And I didn't even know all the specifics. 460 00:37:11,187 --> 00:37:12,521 But I knew-- 461 00:37:12,522 --> 00:37:17,359 I knew that she had been found guilty. 462 00:37:29,998 --> 00:37:33,834 <i> I feel settled in my life</i> 463 00:37:33,835 --> 00:37:37,546 and I feel settled with my family. 464 00:37:37,547 --> 00:37:42,509 But I still feel like there are missing pieces 465 00:37:42,510 --> 00:37:46,305 <i>to what happened to Mike.</i> 466 00:37:46,306 --> 00:37:48,599 <i>We don't know the full truth.</i> 467 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,767 <i>The only people, in my opinion,</i> 468 00:37:50,768 --> 00:37:54,104 who know what truly happened are Brian and Mike. 469 00:37:54,105 --> 00:37:55,481 And Mike's dead. 470 00:37:55,482 --> 00:37:57,983 And Brian said what he's gonna say. 471 00:37:57,984 --> 00:38:01,236 <i>I firmly believe that there is more to the story</i> 472 00:38:01,237 --> 00:38:03,363 than what Brian has told. 473 00:38:03,364 --> 00:38:06,075 The plan with Mike... 474 00:38:08,411 --> 00:38:10,496 <i>There was a time in the past year</i> 475 00:38:10,497 --> 00:38:16,293 <i>that one of my border collies had been hit by a car</i> 476 00:38:16,294 --> 00:38:17,879 <i>and was killed.</i> 477 00:38:19,964 --> 00:38:23,300 <i>And as I was hitting that shovel down into the dirt,</i> 478 00:38:23,301 --> 00:38:27,095 <i>I was just thinking to myself</i> 479 00:38:27,096 --> 00:38:31,391 <i>what a difficult task this was.</i> 480 00:38:31,392 --> 00:38:34,353 <i>It took a lot of strength,</i> 481 00:38:34,354 --> 00:38:39,651 <i>and it took a lot of energy to bury a 45-pound dog.</i> 482 00:38:41,778 --> 00:38:43,779 <i>The plan with Mike was that I would</i> 483 00:38:43,780 --> 00:38:45,614 <i>meet him at a gas station--</i> 484 00:38:45,615 --> 00:38:47,783 <i>Early morning over to Lake Seminole.</i> 485 00:38:47,784 --> 00:38:49,535 <i>Very concerned-- I shot him.</i> 486 00:38:49,536 --> 00:38:51,703 <i>And I was panicking-- In the water.</i> 487 00:38:51,704 --> 00:38:53,330 <i>Ended up putting him in the back--</i> 488 00:38:53,331 --> 00:38:55,249 <i>I sped back toward Tallahassee.</i> 489 00:38:55,250 --> 00:38:58,252 <i>This was going to have to be done quickly,</i> 490 00:38:58,253 --> 00:39:02,839 watching for others who may possibly see him. 491 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,466 <i>The best thing for me to do was to go back</i> 492 00:39:04,467 --> 00:39:06,385 <i>to my house, pretend that I had overslept.</i> 493 00:39:06,386 --> 00:39:09,012 <i>I had to go to-- And I bought a shovel.</i> 494 00:39:09,013 --> 00:39:13,976 <i>Drove to Carr Lake and started digging a hole.</i> 495 00:39:13,977 --> 00:39:18,855 Brian was not a big person, not a muscular person. 496 00:39:18,856 --> 00:39:23,652 I cannot imagine digging, dragging, 497 00:39:23,653 --> 00:39:27,865 burying, and having that happen within a few hours. 498 00:39:27,866 --> 00:39:29,825 <i>Put him there and covered him up.</i> 499 00:39:29,826 --> 00:39:31,493 <i>And later in my truck, had blood on it.</i> 500 00:39:31,494 --> 00:39:32,828 <i>Went to my parents' house.</i> 501 00:39:32,829 --> 00:39:34,246 <i> He cleaned the vehicle.</i> 502 00:39:34,247 --> 00:39:36,415 <i>Drive all over town.</i> 503 00:39:36,416 --> 00:39:38,250 <i>So I ended up at Old Bainbridge Car Wash.</i> 504 00:39:38,251 --> 00:39:40,836 And you did all of that and went to Cairo, 505 00:39:40,837 --> 00:39:43,964 <i>which is 45 minutes away.</i> 506 00:39:43,965 --> 00:39:46,008 <i>It would have been excruciating</i> 507 00:39:46,009 --> 00:39:50,887 <i>for him to do that alone in that short amount of time.</i> 508 00:39:50,888 --> 00:39:55,893 He had to have had someone helping him. 509 00:39:55,894 --> 00:39:57,311 <i> Is there a list in my head</i> 510 00:39:57,312 --> 00:39:58,854 <i>of who could have helped?</i> 511 00:39:58,855 --> 00:39:59,939 Yes. 512 00:40:01,774 --> 00:40:02,983 Will we ever know? 513 00:40:02,984 --> 00:40:04,068 I doubt it. 514 00:40:29,385 --> 00:40:31,386 <i> From the get-go,</i> 515 00:40:31,387 --> 00:40:35,349 <i>there was kind of a lack of imagination</i> 516 00:40:35,350 --> 00:40:38,852 <i>that these nice people from these nice families,</i> 517 00:40:38,853 --> 00:40:42,689 you know, churchgoing people, could ever play a role 518 00:40:42,690 --> 00:40:44,441 in something that was so awful 519 00:40:44,442 --> 00:40:47,194 and, you know, nefarious, right? 520 00:40:47,195 --> 00:40:50,947 <i>The idea that Denise would rather see her husband killed</i> 521 00:40:50,948 --> 00:40:54,076 <i>than have the shame of getting a divorce,</i> 522 00:40:54,077 --> 00:40:57,329 that just seems crazy, right? 523 00:40:57,330 --> 00:40:59,206 <i> Denise had a choice.</i> 524 00:40:59,207 --> 00:41:00,791 <i>They could have got a divorce,</i> 525 00:41:00,792 --> 00:41:03,752 <i>as embarrassing and as horrible as that would be</i> 526 00:41:03,753 --> 00:41:05,671 <i>in the Baptist church.</i> 527 00:41:05,672 --> 00:41:07,047 <i>Mike could have lived.</i> 528 00:41:07,048 --> 00:41:10,342 <i>He could have had a regular life.</i> 529 00:41:10,343 --> 00:41:12,928 She could have gone on and had a regular life 530 00:41:12,929 --> 00:41:14,222 and nobody live like this. 531 00:41:17,058 --> 00:41:19,143 <i>Do you think justice was served?</i> 532 00:41:21,771 --> 00:41:24,272 No. 533 00:41:24,273 --> 00:41:26,233 Justice wasn't served because my brother 534 00:41:26,234 --> 00:41:28,110 is not convicted of murder. 535 00:41:44,252 --> 00:41:49,089 <i>Nobody's officially charged with his murder.</i> 536 00:41:49,090 --> 00:41:50,799 One person is charged with kidnapping 537 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,886 and one person is charged with conspiracy to commit murder. 538 00:41:54,887 --> 00:41:57,055 That was the only way. 539 00:41:57,056 --> 00:41:58,598 <i>You know, they would never got the body,</i> 540 00:41:58,599 --> 00:42:01,393 <i>and Denise would still be out running free.</i> 541 00:42:01,394 --> 00:42:04,771 And, you know, I guess that's 542 00:42:04,772 --> 00:42:08,359 the best outcome you could hope for. 543 00:42:10,653 --> 00:42:16,409 <i>This is the only way to get closure for his family.</i> 544 00:42:20,788 --> 00:42:21,998 I did it. 545 00:42:26,502 --> 00:42:30,255 I know that's what Mike's gonna tell me one day 546 00:42:30,256 --> 00:42:32,257 when I see him again. 547 00:42:32,258 --> 00:42:34,761 He's gonna tell me I did a good job. 547 00:42:35,305 --> 00:43:35,277 Support us and become VIP member to remove all ads from www.OpenSubtitles.org