"Mr. & Mrs. Murder" Locked In

Name: "Mr. & Mrs. Murder" Locked In
Released: 2025

ID	13205041
Movie Name	"Mr. & Mrs. Murder" Locked In
Release Name	Mr.and.Mrs.Murder.2025.S01E02.Locked.In.720p.DSNP.WEB-DL.DDP5.1.H.264-FLUX
Year	2025
Kind	tv
Language	English
IMDB ID	37376943
Format	srt

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1 00:00:03,962 --> 00:00:06,505 [birds chirping] 2 00:00:06,506 --> 00:00:09,050 [chickens clucking] 3 00:00:09,051 --> 00:00:10,802 KATHY: Y'all, come on up here! 4 00:00:13,513 --> 00:00:16,599 It's 2003. 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,811 And it's been three years since Mike's disappeared. 6 00:00:20,812 --> 00:00:23,773 Brian and I were separated. 7 00:00:23,774 --> 00:00:25,816 Brian calls me and he says, 8 00:00:25,817 --> 00:00:29,070 Kathy, you're gonna be getting a letter, 9 00:00:29,071 --> 00:00:31,489 and I'm gonna ask you not to read it. 10 00:00:31,490 --> 00:00:34,450 [tense music] 11 00:00:34,451 --> 00:00:37,453 He says, well, it's gonna say some things in there. 12 00:00:37,454 --> 00:00:39,330 And I don't know what it's gonna say. 13 00:00:39,331 --> 00:00:41,874 But I'm just gonna say, please don't read it. 14 00:00:41,875 --> 00:00:45,002 He was very worried about this letter. 15 00:00:45,003 --> 00:00:46,837 And I said to him, 16 00:00:46,838 --> 00:00:50,758 Brian, I am absolutely reading that letter. 17 00:00:50,759 --> 00:00:52,094 [chuckles] 18 00:00:53,762 --> 00:00:56,430 Within a few days, I did get a letter-- 19 00:00:56,431 --> 00:00:58,015 [dramatic music] 20 00:00:58,016 --> 00:01:01,143 - from a man, Chuck Bunker, 21 00:01:01,144 --> 00:01:02,561 who had had an incident 22 00:01:02,562 --> 00:01:05,648 with Brian and Denise in Atlanta. 23 00:01:05,649 --> 00:01:06,983 [high-pitched feedback] 24 00:01:06,984 --> 00:01:09,569 ♪ ♪ 25 00:01:09,570 --> 00:01:12,571 [ominous chord] 26 00:01:12,572 --> 00:01:15,075 [water trickling] 27 00:01:17,411 --> 00:01:19,328 [clears throat] 28 00:01:19,329 --> 00:01:21,872 The letter says, "Ms. Kathy Winchester, 29 00:01:21,873 --> 00:01:25,334 "I am sorry that I find myself writing this letter to you 30 00:01:25,335 --> 00:01:28,504 "about one of your best friends, Denise Williams, 31 00:01:28,505 --> 00:01:31,424 "and your ex, Brian Winchester. 32 00:01:31,425 --> 00:01:34,635 "Denise and Brian have been leading a double life 33 00:01:34,636 --> 00:01:37,013 "that few people are aware of. 34 00:01:37,014 --> 00:01:39,724 "You need to be watchful of their behavior 35 00:01:39,725 --> 00:01:41,726 "because they have been dishonest with you 36 00:01:41,727 --> 00:01:43,644 "for the past 2 and 1/2 years. 37 00:01:43,645 --> 00:01:45,396 "And they both have demonstrated 38 00:01:45,397 --> 00:01:48,190 "extremely strange behavior. 39 00:01:48,191 --> 00:01:51,402 "It was easy for her, after her husband's death, 40 00:01:51,403 --> 00:01:55,656 "to start a bizarre affair with your husband, Brian. 41 00:01:55,657 --> 00:01:58,451 "The affair was not a normal affair. 42 00:01:58,452 --> 00:02:02,872 "It involved decadent sexual behavior with various people, 43 00:02:02,873 --> 00:02:05,791 strippers, and other sordid acts." 44 00:02:05,792 --> 00:02:09,004 ♪ ♪ 45 00:02:12,257 --> 00:02:14,925 CHUCK: Me and Denise were dating. 46 00:02:14,926 --> 00:02:17,678 I think we were just getting ready to head out to dinner. 47 00:02:17,679 --> 00:02:19,597 But, uh, we went down to the lobby. 48 00:02:19,598 --> 00:02:22,141 And lo and behold, 49 00:02:22,142 --> 00:02:25,061 Brian Winchester is in the lobby. 50 00:02:25,062 --> 00:02:27,897 He said, all right, Denise, me and you have got to talk. 51 00:02:27,898 --> 00:02:30,358 There's lots of things that we've got to discuss. 52 00:02:30,359 --> 00:02:34,236 Basically, uh, Denise told him to go home. 53 00:02:34,237 --> 00:02:37,240 [sinister distorted noises] 54 00:02:39,284 --> 00:02:41,160 He said, "Denise, if you make me go home, 55 00:02:41,161 --> 00:02:44,830 I'm gonna go home and kill myself." 56 00:02:44,831 --> 00:02:47,083 I didn't have a clue what the hell was going on. 57 00:02:47,084 --> 00:02:49,752 So I said, "Brian, you need to listen to Denise. 58 00:02:49,753 --> 00:02:51,337 "Denise wants you out of here. You need to leave. 59 00:02:51,338 --> 00:02:53,089 "If Denise wants you to go, 60 00:02:53,090 --> 00:02:55,132 we will have the police out here." 61 00:02:55,133 --> 00:02:56,884 You just don't know how far he's going to go. 62 00:02:56,885 --> 00:02:59,012 He's got this personality. 63 00:03:01,765 --> 00:03:03,099 That's when he started threatening 64 00:03:03,100 --> 00:03:04,392 to kill both of us. 65 00:03:04,393 --> 00:03:06,102 I mean, he said he had a gun in the truck, 66 00:03:06,103 --> 00:03:08,229 and he was going to go get it and basically 67 00:03:08,230 --> 00:03:12,358 kill me and Denise on the spot if Denise didn't talk to him. 68 00:03:12,359 --> 00:03:15,069 - To add to the list of bizarre behavior, 69 00:03:15,070 --> 00:03:17,863 he also threatened her with blackmail. 70 00:03:17,864 --> 00:03:20,783 CHUCK: Brian was telling Denise that, you know, 71 00:03:20,784 --> 00:03:23,619 if you don't get back with me, I've got pictures of you 72 00:03:23,620 --> 00:03:26,330 doing weird stuff that I'm going to, you know, 73 00:03:26,331 --> 00:03:28,749 broadcast to everybody, 74 00:03:28,750 --> 00:03:32,629 send them to her mom and dad or whatever. 75 00:03:34,172 --> 00:03:35,423 KATHY: This Atlanta incident 76 00:03:35,424 --> 00:03:37,591 could have easily happened in Tallahassee 77 00:03:37,592 --> 00:03:40,345 with more dire consequences. 78 00:03:42,347 --> 00:03:44,807 CHUCK: I really thought that she was trying to make 79 00:03:44,808 --> 00:03:48,144 that last, best effort to get away from him 80 00:03:48,145 --> 00:03:51,856 and that she just couldn't do it, 81 00:03:51,857 --> 00:03:55,693 because basically, Brian controlled her life. 82 00:03:55,694 --> 00:03:58,529 - Happy birthday. [indistinct chatter] 83 00:03:58,530 --> 00:04:00,948 CHUCK: I mean, she was really afraid, 84 00:04:00,949 --> 00:04:03,909 uptight, because her and Brian have done something together. 85 00:04:03,910 --> 00:04:06,328 [dramatic music] 86 00:04:06,329 --> 00:04:08,873 I don't know what it is. 87 00:04:08,874 --> 00:04:11,750 I mean, they are locked in with each other. 88 00:04:11,751 --> 00:04:14,670 ♪ ♪ 89 00:04:14,671 --> 00:04:19,884 - I was furious when I got this letter. 90 00:04:19,885 --> 00:04:22,595 I mean, obviously, it's... 91 00:04:22,596 --> 00:04:24,096 [clears throat] 92 00:04:24,097 --> 00:04:27,767 Confirmation of everything I had suspected. 93 00:04:27,768 --> 00:04:29,727 They're both horrible people. 94 00:04:29,728 --> 00:04:33,606 They deserve each other. 95 00:04:33,607 --> 00:04:36,901 Brian told Denise 96 00:04:36,902 --> 00:04:40,738 to end it with Chuck. 97 00:04:40,739 --> 00:04:45,326 I knew Brian was dating Denise 98 00:04:45,327 --> 00:04:48,829 in secret. 99 00:04:48,830 --> 00:04:52,666 It was never something he wanted to openly 100 00:04:52,667 --> 00:04:56,045 admit to because it would look so bad. 101 00:04:56,046 --> 00:04:58,339 ♪ ♪ 102 00:04:58,340 --> 00:05:01,258 At this point, I'm ready to be divorced. 103 00:05:01,259 --> 00:05:05,596 ♪ ♪ 104 00:05:05,597 --> 00:05:09,809 In those last couple of weeks before our court date, 105 00:05:09,810 --> 00:05:12,436 he starts saying, 106 00:05:12,437 --> 00:05:15,564 this is what the Bible says about divorced women. 107 00:05:15,565 --> 00:05:19,527 [sinister distorted noises] 108 00:05:19,528 --> 00:05:23,072 Using manipulation of the scriptures 109 00:05:23,073 --> 00:05:28,619 to try to stop me from going through with it. 110 00:05:28,620 --> 00:05:32,206 It was never, let's repair our relationship. 111 00:05:32,207 --> 00:05:36,210 It was never about, let me make this right to you. 112 00:05:36,211 --> 00:05:38,963 Please forgive me. I've done you wrong. 113 00:05:38,964 --> 00:05:41,423 It was never that. 114 00:05:41,424 --> 00:05:44,301 ♪ ♪ 115 00:05:44,302 --> 00:05:48,931 The day that we were in court to get the divorce, 116 00:05:48,932 --> 00:05:51,851 Brian sat behind me, 117 00:05:51,852 --> 00:05:54,812 crying, openly crying, 118 00:05:54,813 --> 00:05:59,942 as if this was breaking his heart. 119 00:05:59,943 --> 00:06:03,737 It was just that last-minute push 120 00:06:03,738 --> 00:06:07,575 of manipulation to try to get me 121 00:06:07,576 --> 00:06:11,829 to walk out of there and not go through with it. 122 00:06:11,830 --> 00:06:16,001 But the divorce was final that day. 123 00:06:17,460 --> 00:06:21,171 And I feel good about it. 124 00:06:21,172 --> 00:06:22,382 Yeah. 125 00:06:24,509 --> 00:06:26,552 [insects chittering] 126 00:06:26,553 --> 00:06:28,220 NARRATOR: It's been almost three years 127 00:06:28,221 --> 00:06:30,347 since Mike disappeared. 128 00:06:30,348 --> 00:06:32,683 [sinister music] 129 00:06:32,684 --> 00:06:35,769 [tape whirring] 130 00:06:35,770 --> 00:06:38,230 No one can understand how a mother feels 131 00:06:38,231 --> 00:06:42,359 when her heart is broken. 132 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,488 My son is never out of my mind. 133 00:06:46,489 --> 00:06:49,408 After Kathy left Brian and moved out, 134 00:06:49,409 --> 00:06:52,745 Denise spent a lot of time with Brian. 135 00:06:52,746 --> 00:06:54,997 She had herself declared a widow 136 00:06:54,998 --> 00:06:57,625 when she had Mike declared dead 137 00:06:57,626 --> 00:07:02,713 six months after he disappeared. 138 00:07:02,714 --> 00:07:04,757 - Brian and Kathy got divorced, 139 00:07:04,758 --> 00:07:08,344 and I remember Denise telling me 140 00:07:08,345 --> 00:07:12,640 about she and Brian. 141 00:07:12,641 --> 00:07:14,850 It made sense. 142 00:07:14,851 --> 00:07:19,188 Denise lost Mike and loved Mike. 143 00:07:19,189 --> 00:07:21,357 Brian was his best friend. 144 00:07:21,358 --> 00:07:23,901 Brian's now divorced. 145 00:07:23,902 --> 00:07:25,819 That would be a natural fit 146 00:07:25,820 --> 00:07:28,989 that really would kind of heal her heart. 147 00:07:28,990 --> 00:07:31,992 [rhythmic electronic music] 148 00:07:31,993 --> 00:07:36,038 ♪ ♪ 149 00:07:36,039 --> 00:07:37,915 [indistinct chatter] 150 00:07:37,916 --> 00:07:41,251 JENNIFER WINCHESTER: Brian loved Kathy. 151 00:07:41,252 --> 00:07:44,838 Kathy's the one that left. 152 00:07:44,839 --> 00:07:50,428 So Brian and Denise had the green light to start dating. 153 00:07:52,389 --> 00:07:54,306 He loved her. 154 00:07:54,307 --> 00:07:57,434 He smiled around her a lot more. 155 00:07:57,435 --> 00:07:59,395 ♪ ♪ 156 00:07:59,396 --> 00:08:05,192 I know that Brian wanted to ask her to marry him. 157 00:08:05,193 --> 00:08:10,322 But Brian told me Denise wanted to marry a godly man. 158 00:08:10,323 --> 00:08:13,409 Like, that was her big goal. 159 00:08:13,410 --> 00:08:17,871 PREACHER: Go forth knowing you are God's ambassadors! 160 00:08:17,872 --> 00:08:19,081 JENNIFER WINCHESTER: Growing up, 161 00:08:19,082 --> 00:08:20,999 we were always in the church. 162 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,169 It was very strict. 163 00:08:24,170 --> 00:08:25,671 Our games were Christian themed. 164 00:08:25,672 --> 00:08:27,214 It was Christian Monopoly. 165 00:08:27,215 --> 00:08:29,550 It was Christian Life. 166 00:08:29,551 --> 00:08:31,051 When we weren't at church, 167 00:08:31,052 --> 00:08:34,805 we were listening to sermons on tape at home. 168 00:08:34,806 --> 00:08:37,933 But around the time Brian was a senior in high school, 169 00:08:37,934 --> 00:08:39,643 he didn't want to go to church anymore. 170 00:08:39,644 --> 00:08:43,564 And he put his dresser in front of the door, 171 00:08:43,565 --> 00:08:45,190 because my parents were banging on the door, 172 00:08:45,191 --> 00:08:46,525 trying to get him to come out to go to church. 173 00:08:46,526 --> 00:08:48,777 And he's like, I'm not going. 174 00:08:48,778 --> 00:08:51,155 ♪ ♪ 175 00:08:51,156 --> 00:08:53,240 He would go on Christmas, and Easter, and Mother's Day, 176 00:08:53,241 --> 00:08:55,284 and maybe Father's Day, and that sort of thing. 177 00:08:55,285 --> 00:08:57,494 But he was like, I'm not in it. 178 00:08:57,495 --> 00:09:01,749 PREACHER: In the name of Jesus, our Messiah, amen. 179 00:09:01,750 --> 00:09:02,958 JENNIFER WINCHESTER: Denise's parents 180 00:09:02,959 --> 00:09:04,835 did not like that about my brother. 181 00:09:04,836 --> 00:09:07,254 Brian was not godly enough for her. 182 00:09:07,255 --> 00:09:13,260 And so he did go through a big religious experience. 183 00:09:13,261 --> 00:09:16,263 [calm music] 184 00:09:16,264 --> 00:09:19,558 ♪ ♪ 185 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,143 Brian got in the pool. 186 00:09:21,144 --> 00:09:23,687 And they ask you to tell your story 187 00:09:23,688 --> 00:09:26,982 as to why you became a Christian. 188 00:09:26,983 --> 00:09:29,651 He said, I ran my life to the ground. 189 00:09:29,652 --> 00:09:32,488 And I got into the bottom of the pit. 190 00:09:32,489 --> 00:09:36,075 And I had nowhere to look but up. 191 00:09:36,076 --> 00:09:38,077 And he said, and I cried out to God. 192 00:09:38,078 --> 00:09:42,247 And, you know, God forgave me of all of my sins, and... 193 00:09:42,248 --> 00:09:44,166 [water sloshing] 194 00:09:44,167 --> 00:09:47,544 I'm here to be baptized as a public display. 195 00:09:47,545 --> 00:09:53,217 ♪ ♪ 196 00:09:53,218 --> 00:09:54,551 And, like, I cried. 197 00:09:54,552 --> 00:09:57,012 I was super excited that Brian was 198 00:09:57,013 --> 00:09:59,473 gonna be back in the church. 199 00:09:59,474 --> 00:10:03,228 ♪ ♪ 200 00:10:05,104 --> 00:10:08,607 And that also really made Denise very happy, 201 00:10:08,608 --> 00:10:11,860 that Brian was baptized again. 202 00:10:11,861 --> 00:10:14,863 [uplifting music] 203 00:10:14,864 --> 00:10:21,871 ♪ ♪ 204 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:29,074 -== [ www.OpenSubtitles.com ] ==- 205 00:10:37,345 --> 00:10:40,347 - We got an invitation and we're like, wow, 206 00:10:40,348 --> 00:10:42,516 I can't believe we were invited to the wedding. 207 00:10:42,517 --> 00:10:49,566 ♪ ♪ 208 00:10:54,195 --> 00:10:58,533 The pastor gets up and starts the service. 209 00:11:00,577 --> 00:11:02,870 And the first thing he says is, 210 00:11:02,871 --> 00:11:04,955 I want you all to know 211 00:11:04,956 --> 00:11:07,040 that I have counseled this couple. 212 00:11:07,041 --> 00:11:09,293 And I have been with them. 213 00:11:09,294 --> 00:11:13,006 And there is literally nothing about them that I do not know. 214 00:11:14,924 --> 00:11:16,592 - How many weddings do you go to where 215 00:11:16,593 --> 00:11:19,428 the minister says there's no secrets I don't know? 216 00:11:19,429 --> 00:11:22,389 [energetic music] 217 00:11:22,390 --> 00:11:26,268 JENNIFER WINCHESTER: It was very fairy tale. 218 00:11:26,269 --> 00:11:29,605 ♪ ♪ 219 00:11:29,606 --> 00:11:33,442 She wanted a chocolate fountain at her wedding. 220 00:11:33,443 --> 00:11:35,819 My kids were just shoving in marshmallows, 221 00:11:35,820 --> 00:11:37,654 and strawberries, and, you know, brownies. 222 00:11:37,655 --> 00:11:40,490 And chocolate got everywhere. 223 00:11:40,491 --> 00:11:42,868 SCOTT: I'd gotten to know Brian a lot better. 224 00:11:42,869 --> 00:11:46,788 I thought he'd be a-- you know, great, great stepdad to Anslee, 225 00:11:46,789 --> 00:11:48,624 take care of, you know, 226 00:11:48,625 --> 00:11:52,669 my best friend's daughter and his widow. 227 00:11:52,670 --> 00:11:54,129 JENNIFER WINCHESTER: They were incredibly 228 00:11:54,130 --> 00:11:56,298 happy to be together. 229 00:11:56,299 --> 00:12:02,095 ♪ ♪ 230 00:12:02,096 --> 00:12:07,476 KATHY: Brian moved into the house that Mike had bought. 231 00:12:07,477 --> 00:12:10,103 [tense music] 232 00:12:10,104 --> 00:12:13,149 It was weird. 233 00:12:15,318 --> 00:12:19,613 Just, why would you move into a space 234 00:12:19,614 --> 00:12:22,616 that had had this-- 235 00:12:22,617 --> 00:12:25,160 you know, your closest friend. 236 00:12:25,161 --> 00:12:27,412 You loved him like a brother. 237 00:12:27,413 --> 00:12:31,124 But yet, you were able to marry his wife, 238 00:12:31,125 --> 00:12:35,337 move into this home. 239 00:12:35,338 --> 00:12:39,257 I was talking with Denise's sister at the time. 240 00:12:39,258 --> 00:12:43,345 And she told me the bedroom set 241 00:12:43,346 --> 00:12:47,975 was the same set that had been Mike's bedroom set. 242 00:12:47,976 --> 00:12:55,023 ♪ ♪ 243 00:12:55,024 --> 00:12:57,819 It's so creepy. 244 00:13:00,238 --> 00:13:01,655 - Hi, my name is Stafford. 245 00:13:01,656 --> 00:13:03,156 I love to talk to God. 246 00:13:03,157 --> 00:13:05,617 I pray three times a day. 247 00:13:05,618 --> 00:13:07,869 KATHY: I was still kind of getting my bearings, 248 00:13:07,870 --> 00:13:11,957 being a single mom. 249 00:13:11,958 --> 00:13:18,130 I reconnected with an old friend, Rocky. 250 00:13:18,131 --> 00:13:20,424 We started spending time together. 251 00:13:20,425 --> 00:13:22,384 It was very sweet. 252 00:13:22,385 --> 00:13:25,887 And it was very hopeful. 253 00:13:25,888 --> 00:13:28,473 We did get married. 254 00:13:28,474 --> 00:13:31,935 He was so different that it made me realize 255 00:13:31,936 --> 00:13:35,981 how toxic my relationship with Brian had been. 256 00:13:35,982 --> 00:13:38,985 [indistinct chatter] 257 00:13:40,653 --> 00:13:44,322 [calm music] 258 00:13:44,323 --> 00:13:48,952 I had spent a lot of time talking to Rocky about 259 00:13:48,953 --> 00:13:50,787 just the whole situation. 260 00:13:50,788 --> 00:13:54,666 Just, I would just pore over these things that had happened. 261 00:13:54,667 --> 00:13:55,667 [indistinct chatter] 262 00:13:55,668 --> 00:13:57,127 [tape whirs] 263 00:13:57,128 --> 00:13:59,546 Everything that I had seen 264 00:13:59,547 --> 00:14:02,507 right after Mike was gone, 265 00:14:02,508 --> 00:14:03,675 everything I'd observed, 266 00:14:03,676 --> 00:14:07,137 everything I had questions about. 267 00:14:07,138 --> 00:14:09,389 I had all these puzzle pieces. 268 00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:12,976 And I just couldn't seem to make anything fit. 269 00:14:12,977 --> 00:14:19,232 He's just like, this is not adding up. 270 00:14:19,233 --> 00:14:20,692 He had suggested, 271 00:14:20,693 --> 00:14:24,362 why don't we visit Mike's mother, Cheryl? 272 00:14:24,363 --> 00:14:27,532 My first reaction was, 273 00:14:27,533 --> 00:14:30,577 we can't go talk to Cheryl about this. 274 00:14:30,578 --> 00:14:33,205 Cheryl's crazy. 275 00:14:33,206 --> 00:14:35,999 SCOTT: After Mike's dad had passed away, 276 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,418 Cheryl wasn't doing well. 277 00:14:38,419 --> 00:14:42,214 And so, when Mike went missing, 278 00:14:42,215 --> 00:14:47,511 that sorrow just doubled. 279 00:14:47,512 --> 00:14:50,514 [sinister music] 280 00:14:50,515 --> 00:14:53,183 ♪ ♪ 281 00:14:53,184 --> 00:14:55,560 I would see her on the street corner close to my office 282 00:14:55,561 --> 00:14:59,022 on a regular basis, holding a sign of Mike, 283 00:14:59,023 --> 00:15:01,399 asking if anybody had seen him. 284 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,570 ♪ ♪ 285 00:15:05,571 --> 00:15:08,782 - Mike's mom started coming to the church 286 00:15:08,783 --> 00:15:10,992 and standing in the front with a sign. 287 00:15:10,993 --> 00:15:15,288 [crickets chirping] 288 00:15:15,289 --> 00:15:20,961 It seemed really pointed to be at our church. 289 00:15:20,962 --> 00:15:22,796 Why are you out here? 290 00:15:22,797 --> 00:15:26,049 ♪ ♪ 291 00:15:26,050 --> 00:15:30,011 There was missing posters on every telephone pole 292 00:15:30,012 --> 00:15:33,932 from Brian's house with Denise to the office, 293 00:15:33,933 --> 00:15:35,934 so that as he drove to the office, 294 00:15:35,935 --> 00:15:38,395 he saw every single one. 295 00:15:38,396 --> 00:15:41,857 ♪ ♪ 296 00:15:41,858 --> 00:15:45,569 My mom was very frustrated, driving around. 297 00:15:45,570 --> 00:15:48,155 She would pull over when she saw a sign. 298 00:15:48,156 --> 00:15:50,031 And she would, you know, driving, 299 00:15:50,032 --> 00:15:53,451 make me get out and pull the sign down. 300 00:15:53,452 --> 00:15:55,996 Mike disappeared. Mike is dead. 301 00:15:55,997 --> 00:16:00,376 And we're trying to move on. You should too. 302 00:16:01,502 --> 00:16:03,962 [thunder rumbling] 303 00:16:03,963 --> 00:16:05,839 KATHY: Rocky said to me, 304 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,425 what makes you say Cheryl's crazy? 305 00:16:08,426 --> 00:16:12,053 And I thought about it for a minute. 306 00:16:12,054 --> 00:16:16,766 I said, that's just what Denise and Brian tell me. 307 00:16:16,767 --> 00:16:20,228 And he said, we're going to see Cheryl. 308 00:16:20,229 --> 00:16:22,022 [calm music] 309 00:16:22,023 --> 00:16:24,942 He just drove me over there. 310 00:16:27,403 --> 00:16:30,071 We saw each other and we hugged, and she said, 311 00:16:30,072 --> 00:16:33,241 I've been praying that you would come see me. 312 00:16:33,242 --> 00:16:36,536 What I didn't know that Cheryl had been doing for those years 313 00:16:36,537 --> 00:16:39,206 was she had been trying very hard 314 00:16:39,207 --> 00:16:41,333 to get an investigation ramped up, 315 00:16:41,334 --> 00:16:43,084 get anybody just to look into 316 00:16:43,085 --> 00:16:45,170 what could have possibly happened. 317 00:16:45,171 --> 00:16:46,922 NARRATOR: I have been writing letters to the editor-- 318 00:16:46,923 --> 00:16:49,007 None of the law enforcement officers my brother 319 00:16:49,008 --> 00:16:50,217 has talked to think-- 320 00:16:50,218 --> 00:16:52,052 They have printed none of them. 321 00:16:52,053 --> 00:16:54,012 I have decided to write to an insurance fraud investigator. 322 00:16:54,013 --> 00:16:58,892 Why isn't law enforcement looking into this case? 323 00:16:58,893 --> 00:17:02,187 KATHY: And she told me how she didn't know 324 00:17:02,188 --> 00:17:05,607 for nearly a year and a half or two years 325 00:17:05,608 --> 00:17:09,778 that I had even moved out and separated from Brian. 326 00:17:09,779 --> 00:17:12,197 She had been seeing Denise during this time, 327 00:17:12,198 --> 00:17:15,116 and Denise had never told her. 328 00:17:15,117 --> 00:17:17,452 We stayed there for maybe three hours, 329 00:17:17,453 --> 00:17:19,371 just poring over just everything 330 00:17:19,372 --> 00:17:21,332 we could remember to each other. 331 00:17:25,503 --> 00:17:28,421 The very next morning, I got a phone call 332 00:17:28,422 --> 00:17:30,507 from Derrick Wester 333 00:17:30,508 --> 00:17:32,717 from the Jackson County Sheriff's Department. 334 00:17:32,718 --> 00:17:36,263 And he said, Miss Cheryl has given me 335 00:17:36,264 --> 00:17:37,847 your name and phone number. 336 00:17:37,848 --> 00:17:39,724 And I would like to talk to you. 337 00:17:39,725 --> 00:17:41,643 - Yeah, there was a lot of speculation at the time 338 00:17:41,644 --> 00:17:46,606 that he had run off, that he got eaten by an alligator. 339 00:17:46,607 --> 00:17:48,316 So she comes over. 340 00:17:48,317 --> 00:17:51,861 And she gives us her version of what happened 341 00:17:51,862 --> 00:17:54,823 on the day of Mike's disappearance. 342 00:17:54,824 --> 00:17:57,993 - I told Derrick that when I woke up that morning, 343 00:17:57,994 --> 00:18:00,078 Brian was gone. 344 00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:02,455 As far as I knew, he was hunting, 345 00:18:02,456 --> 00:18:04,499 because it's duck season. 346 00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:05,917 I didn't know where he was hunting. 347 00:18:05,918 --> 00:18:08,837 I didn't know who he was going with. 348 00:18:08,838 --> 00:18:11,464 Brian wasn't home by 2:00. 349 00:18:11,465 --> 00:18:13,049 So I just packed Stafford up. 350 00:18:13,050 --> 00:18:16,469 And we just went up to my granny's by ourselves. 351 00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:21,308 Brian got to my granny's between 4:00 and 5:00. 352 00:18:21,309 --> 00:18:24,561 Shortly into all that, 353 00:18:24,562 --> 00:18:28,732 Brian was asleep on the couch. 354 00:18:28,733 --> 00:18:31,026 - We contacted Brian. 355 00:18:31,027 --> 00:18:33,153 We wasn't necessarily interrogating him. 356 00:18:33,154 --> 00:18:35,155 We were just talking to him. 357 00:18:35,156 --> 00:18:39,284 He explained that he woke up 358 00:18:39,285 --> 00:18:41,703 at 10:00 in the morning, 359 00:18:41,704 --> 00:18:44,331 went out in the yard, played with his dogs. 360 00:18:44,332 --> 00:18:47,208 And then him and Kathy and their child 361 00:18:47,209 --> 00:18:50,086 got in his truck and drove to Kathy's family's 362 00:18:50,087 --> 00:18:53,173 Christmas gathering in Cairo, Georgia. 363 00:18:53,174 --> 00:18:58,219 That's what he told us, which was very enlightening 364 00:18:58,220 --> 00:19:00,847 and made me raise questions, 365 00:19:00,848 --> 00:19:04,309 because Brian and Kathy gave us both 366 00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:07,980 different versions of where they were at. 367 00:19:12,652 --> 00:19:15,403 So we asked him, you know, 368 00:19:15,404 --> 00:19:17,864 just to clear things up, would you agree to a polygraph? 369 00:19:17,865 --> 00:19:19,741 He said, absolutely. 370 00:19:19,742 --> 00:19:23,953 Maybe the next day, maybe the day after, I get a call. 371 00:19:23,954 --> 00:19:29,209 And he said, sir, I'm representing Brian Winchester. 372 00:19:29,210 --> 00:19:30,585 He's not gonna participate. 373 00:19:30,586 --> 00:19:32,504 And he's not gonna take no polygraph. 374 00:19:32,505 --> 00:19:35,048 He gave you a statement. 375 00:19:35,049 --> 00:19:36,424 They miss him. They love him. 376 00:19:36,425 --> 00:19:39,512 And please respect our privacy. 377 00:19:51,524 --> 00:19:52,774 JENNIFER PORTMAN: I'm a big believer in, 378 00:19:52,775 --> 00:19:55,276 you know, read your own newspaper. 379 00:19:55,277 --> 00:19:57,654 [elevator dings] 380 00:19:57,655 --> 00:20:00,073 [energetic music] 381 00:20:00,074 --> 00:20:02,701 I had just joined the "Tallahassee Democrat." 382 00:20:02,702 --> 00:20:05,370 And I was reading the paper. 383 00:20:05,371 --> 00:20:08,206 And there was this ad that popped out. 384 00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:10,834 And it said, please help me find my missing son. 385 00:20:10,835 --> 00:20:13,711 And I was like, what is this? I'd never heard of this. 386 00:20:13,712 --> 00:20:16,589 This is the actual ad that was in the paper 387 00:20:16,590 --> 00:20:18,258 that day that I saw, that I cut out. 388 00:20:18,259 --> 00:20:19,509 And this is from Cheryl. 389 00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:21,845 And she says, my name is Cheryl Ann Williams. 390 00:20:21,846 --> 00:20:24,764 And I haven't seen my son, Mike, in over five years. 391 00:20:24,765 --> 00:20:26,808 Will you please take a moment to read this 392 00:20:26,809 --> 00:20:29,144 and help me find him? 393 00:20:29,145 --> 00:20:31,146 It was like, yes, I will take a moment 394 00:20:31,147 --> 00:20:33,106 and please help you find him. 395 00:20:33,107 --> 00:20:36,943 And then she goes and lays out the circumstances of the case, 396 00:20:36,944 --> 00:20:39,821 that on the morning on December 16, 2000, 397 00:20:39,822 --> 00:20:42,323 my son, Jerry Michael "Mike" Williams, 398 00:20:42,324 --> 00:20:43,867 supposedly went duck hunting 399 00:20:43,868 --> 00:20:45,869 at Lake Seminole in Sneads, Florida. 400 00:20:45,870 --> 00:20:48,079 He never returned. 401 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,873 The authorities assumed he drowned, 402 00:20:49,874 --> 00:20:51,958 and alligators ate his body. 403 00:20:51,959 --> 00:20:55,462 80 people have drowned in Lake Seminole since the late 1800s. 404 00:20:55,463 --> 00:20:59,299 Mike's body is the only one that has never been found. 405 00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:01,342 Please help us solve the mystery 406 00:21:01,343 --> 00:21:05,180 of Mike's disappearance and bring closure to my family. 407 00:21:05,181 --> 00:21:10,351 So that was my starting point on this story. 408 00:21:10,352 --> 00:21:13,396 [dramatic music] 409 00:21:13,397 --> 00:21:17,484 ♪ ♪ 410 00:21:17,485 --> 00:21:20,945 As I am learning about this case, 411 00:21:20,946 --> 00:21:22,405 Derrick Wester, 412 00:21:22,406 --> 00:21:25,408 he is one of my primary sources who I connect with early on. 413 00:21:25,409 --> 00:21:29,245 As I start discovering more and more things, 414 00:21:29,246 --> 00:21:31,498 it was just-- it was blowing my mind. 415 00:21:31,499 --> 00:21:34,083 Like, wow, this life insurance. 416 00:21:34,084 --> 00:21:35,919 It just got more interesting 417 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,588 and more like, this is not right. 418 00:21:38,589 --> 00:21:42,300 And I finally got someone to say on the record 419 00:21:42,301 --> 00:21:43,968 that they were looking at Mike's death 420 00:21:43,969 --> 00:21:46,554 as a suspicious missing person. 421 00:21:46,555 --> 00:21:49,307 And I knew that I had really a hell of a story. 422 00:21:49,308 --> 00:21:56,357 ♪ ♪ 423 00:21:59,193 --> 00:22:04,364 Just gave this cold case a little bit of simmer under it. 424 00:22:04,365 --> 00:22:07,075 I think that for lots of people who knew Mike, 425 00:22:07,076 --> 00:22:08,993 and in those communities, 426 00:22:08,994 --> 00:22:11,037 it put a lot of people's suspicions 427 00:22:11,038 --> 00:22:13,623 and maybe wonderings, and hmm-- 428 00:22:13,624 --> 00:22:15,500 it kind of said, 429 00:22:15,501 --> 00:22:18,169 yeah, no one's crazy if they think that 430 00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:20,547 Mike wasn't eaten by alligators. 431 00:22:20,548 --> 00:22:23,091 This is a mystery. 432 00:22:23,092 --> 00:22:25,803 What did happen to Mike Williams? 433 00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:31,432 [sinister music] 434 00:22:31,433 --> 00:22:37,605 ♪ ♪ 435 00:22:37,606 --> 00:22:38,731 JENNIFER PORTMAN: I was following this case 436 00:22:38,732 --> 00:22:39,941 very closely. 437 00:22:39,942 --> 00:22:42,360 And I start hearing about 438 00:22:42,361 --> 00:22:44,737 these sort of like men in black agents around, 439 00:22:44,738 --> 00:22:46,155 digging into this. 440 00:22:46,156 --> 00:22:47,615 And they're going to get something. 441 00:22:47,616 --> 00:22:49,742 There's going to be something tangible that we can, like, 442 00:22:49,743 --> 00:22:51,411 charge someone with something, 443 00:22:51,412 --> 00:22:53,539 or we will have some real evidence. 444 00:22:57,668 --> 00:23:00,670 JOSEY: My first knowledge of the Mike Williams case 445 00:23:00,671 --> 00:23:05,383 was when my wife and I were looking for a daycare. 446 00:23:05,384 --> 00:23:08,011 My wife got word about Miss Cheryl. 447 00:23:08,012 --> 00:23:09,012 So we went and saw her. 448 00:23:09,013 --> 00:23:10,555 It was like the perfect setting. 449 00:23:10,556 --> 00:23:12,056 She was like a grandma. 450 00:23:12,057 --> 00:23:14,809 She was old school. 451 00:23:14,810 --> 00:23:17,478 That's when Miss Cheryl was like, you know, what do you do? 452 00:23:17,479 --> 00:23:21,441 And I said, well, I'm an ATF agent. 453 00:23:21,442 --> 00:23:24,193 Then she just let it rip. 454 00:23:24,194 --> 00:23:26,863 She told me the details about Mike, 455 00:23:26,864 --> 00:23:29,157 about the case. 456 00:23:29,158 --> 00:23:30,575 I mean, it's just-- just jacked up. 457 00:23:30,576 --> 00:23:32,577 And there's good jacked up, and there's bad jacked up, 458 00:23:32,578 --> 00:23:33,870 and that's bad jacked up. 459 00:23:33,871 --> 00:23:35,997 And I was like, well, it's a no-brainer. 460 00:23:35,998 --> 00:23:37,498 I was like, your son's not missing. 461 00:23:37,499 --> 00:23:39,626 I mean, hell, somebody killed him. 462 00:23:39,627 --> 00:23:41,836 [insects chirring] 463 00:23:41,837 --> 00:23:45,798 But in ATF's world, it has to be firearm related. 464 00:23:45,799 --> 00:23:47,258 I mean, I just basically told her 465 00:23:47,259 --> 00:23:51,471 I couldn't get involved because I had no skin in the game. 466 00:23:51,472 --> 00:23:55,058 Miss Cheryl told me about a handgun-- 467 00:23:55,059 --> 00:23:56,809 it belonged to her husband-- 468 00:23:56,810 --> 00:24:00,396 that had not been returned by Denise and Brian. 469 00:24:00,397 --> 00:24:02,231 So it was a crapshoot from the get-go. 470 00:24:02,232 --> 00:24:04,525 But I was willing to run with that 471 00:24:04,526 --> 00:24:06,778 because it was an unaccounted handgun. 472 00:24:06,779 --> 00:24:09,781 [energetic music] 473 00:24:09,782 --> 00:24:11,449 ♪ ♪ 474 00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:13,534 KATHY: I had these two gentlemen 475 00:24:13,535 --> 00:24:16,704 come in to the coffee shop. 476 00:24:16,705 --> 00:24:20,667 And they were dressed in suits and ties. 477 00:24:20,668 --> 00:24:22,752 This is very serious. 478 00:24:22,753 --> 00:24:26,047 It's not a, "How do you do? Nice to meet you." 479 00:24:26,048 --> 00:24:28,716 It's not a friendly welcome. 480 00:24:28,717 --> 00:24:30,677 - I mean, the thing you got to think about is 481 00:24:30,678 --> 00:24:32,845 that you're going in to talk to this woman 482 00:24:32,846 --> 00:24:36,849 that used to be married to one of your prime suspects. 483 00:24:36,850 --> 00:24:39,686 And that's the father of her child. 484 00:24:39,687 --> 00:24:41,312 - Go on. Yeah. 485 00:24:41,313 --> 00:24:44,565 - So you know, my experience typically would be, 486 00:24:44,566 --> 00:24:47,694 you know, I'm gonna be met with some pretty high resistance. 487 00:24:47,695 --> 00:24:52,198 - He says to me, you are going to have to decide right now 488 00:24:52,199 --> 00:24:53,950 whose side you're gonna be on. 489 00:24:53,951 --> 00:24:55,743 This train is leaving the station, 490 00:24:55,744 --> 00:24:58,621 and either you're gonna be on it or you're not. 491 00:24:58,622 --> 00:25:01,332 And I was like, OK, OK. 492 00:25:01,333 --> 00:25:03,751 I understand that. 493 00:25:03,752 --> 00:25:05,878 And I'm willing to help you. 494 00:25:05,879 --> 00:25:10,091 He asked me if I knew if Mike had a handgun. 495 00:25:10,092 --> 00:25:13,011 I said to him, yes, he did have a handgun. 496 00:25:13,012 --> 00:25:14,971 He kept it in his nightstand. 497 00:25:14,972 --> 00:25:17,682 JOSEY: I was taken back by, you know, 498 00:25:17,683 --> 00:25:19,475 her eagerness to help. 499 00:25:19,476 --> 00:25:21,185 - I believe that Brian and Denise 500 00:25:21,186 --> 00:25:23,896 have done something to Mike. 501 00:25:23,897 --> 00:25:26,774 And I'm watching them just live this life, 502 00:25:26,775 --> 00:25:29,569 happy, carefree-- 503 00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:31,154 [bright music] 504 00:25:31,155 --> 00:25:36,242 - going through life, raising these children. 505 00:25:36,243 --> 00:25:37,785 They've got the golden goose, right? 506 00:25:37,786 --> 00:25:40,037 They've got the life insurance money. 507 00:25:40,038 --> 00:25:43,875 And they've got the children. 508 00:25:43,876 --> 00:25:46,669 [sinister music] 509 00:25:46,670 --> 00:25:51,632 Josey being on the case, it was just the first time 510 00:25:51,633 --> 00:25:54,218 that I felt like I could see the light 511 00:25:54,219 --> 00:25:56,763 at the end of the tunnel. 512 00:25:56,764 --> 00:25:58,931 JOSEY: Once we got Kathy on board, 513 00:25:58,932 --> 00:26:01,350 you know, she's checking in with me every day at noon. 514 00:26:01,351 --> 00:26:05,313 Just-- that's the way I know where she's at. 515 00:26:05,314 --> 00:26:07,899 KATHY: Now, Josey kind of has 516 00:26:07,900 --> 00:26:12,487 a contact point to kind of get to Brian. 517 00:26:12,488 --> 00:26:14,489 The goal at that point was 518 00:26:14,490 --> 00:26:17,241 to kind of try to rattle him and see where he would go. 519 00:26:17,242 --> 00:26:20,912 [suspenseful music] 520 00:26:20,913 --> 00:26:23,748 For the first time, I was pretty excited. 521 00:26:23,749 --> 00:26:26,834 Josey seemed very determined 522 00:26:26,835 --> 00:26:30,797 to take this somewhere. 523 00:26:30,798 --> 00:26:33,424 JOSEY: We literally just went house to house 524 00:26:33,425 --> 00:26:35,426 in Brian and Denise's neighborhood. 525 00:26:35,427 --> 00:26:38,721 And really, we were like, shooting the biggest flare 526 00:26:38,722 --> 00:26:41,390 up in the sky that we could that, hey, you know what? 527 00:26:41,391 --> 00:26:43,143 We're here. 528 00:26:45,312 --> 00:26:48,022 And the goal was to let Brian know, 529 00:26:48,023 --> 00:26:52,443 this might have been sleeping, but it ain't sleeping no more. 530 00:26:52,444 --> 00:26:54,070 And hell, I'll take you over here and you know, 531 00:26:54,071 --> 00:26:55,780 show you a freaking fire ant hill. 532 00:26:55,781 --> 00:26:57,240 You step on a damn fire ant hill, 533 00:26:57,241 --> 00:26:58,699 all the damn fire ants come out. 534 00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:00,201 You know what I'm saying? 535 00:27:00,202 --> 00:27:02,203 We wanted all the ants to come out. 536 00:27:02,204 --> 00:27:05,998 ♪ ♪ 537 00:27:05,999 --> 00:27:09,168 KATHY: Josey was everywhere. 538 00:27:09,169 --> 00:27:14,507 Brian said that Josey would be sitting outside of their house 539 00:27:14,508 --> 00:27:17,927 all the time. 540 00:27:17,928 --> 00:27:22,139 Brian was, for the first time, 541 00:27:22,140 --> 00:27:27,228 really pretty terrified of this guy. 542 00:27:27,229 --> 00:27:30,356 Josey had riled 543 00:27:30,357 --> 00:27:33,568 Brian up so much, 544 00:27:33,569 --> 00:27:35,987 Brian was coming to me more. 545 00:27:35,988 --> 00:27:37,613 He wasn't trusting me, 546 00:27:37,614 --> 00:27:40,992 but I feel like I was the only person 547 00:27:40,993 --> 00:27:45,621 who could get anything back to him about what Josey wanted. 548 00:27:45,622 --> 00:27:48,958 Brian would come to my work, telling me, 549 00:27:48,959 --> 00:27:50,293 you know, he's following me. 550 00:27:50,294 --> 00:27:53,422 What are you talking to him about? 551 00:27:56,216 --> 00:27:57,383 JOSEY: At the same time, Jennifer Portman 552 00:27:57,384 --> 00:28:00,137 is just hammering the news. 553 00:28:03,098 --> 00:28:06,560 And then we're keeping that anthill going. 554 00:28:09,104 --> 00:28:12,023 - Brian was very nervous 555 00:28:12,024 --> 00:28:14,525 because Josey was a federal agent. 556 00:28:14,526 --> 00:28:17,486 And this was the first opportunity 557 00:28:17,487 --> 00:28:21,032 for someone at that level to look at everything. 558 00:28:21,033 --> 00:28:23,284 I kind of felt like this guy might do it. 559 00:28:23,285 --> 00:28:25,703 Like, he might be the one 560 00:28:25,704 --> 00:28:30,708 that can really break Brian. 561 00:28:30,709 --> 00:28:33,002 JOSEY: As we continue to increase the pressure, 562 00:28:33,003 --> 00:28:35,338 Kathy receives a phone call. 563 00:28:35,339 --> 00:28:38,466 And it was Brian calling from a number she didn't know. 564 00:28:38,467 --> 00:28:40,301 She called me in a panic. 565 00:28:40,302 --> 00:28:43,596 She's like, Brian wants to meet with me. 566 00:28:43,597 --> 00:28:46,557 So we knew at that point, 567 00:28:46,558 --> 00:28:49,852 the pressure that we were applying was actually working. 568 00:28:49,853 --> 00:28:53,147 He was literally at the breaking point. 569 00:28:53,148 --> 00:28:56,192 I mean, the anthill was stirred up. 570 00:28:56,193 --> 00:28:59,862 ♪ ♪ 571 00:28:59,863 --> 00:29:04,158 - The idea came up for me to have a meeting with Brian. 572 00:29:04,159 --> 00:29:06,410 And would I wear a wire? 573 00:29:06,411 --> 00:29:08,120 [dramatic music] 574 00:29:08,121 --> 00:29:10,998 I was terrified at the thought of that. 575 00:29:10,999 --> 00:29:14,710 It was very intimidating. 576 00:29:14,711 --> 00:29:18,589 It doesn't feel safe. 577 00:29:18,590 --> 00:29:20,424 But at the same time, I'm like, we're so close. 578 00:29:20,425 --> 00:29:22,134 How can I not do this? 579 00:29:22,135 --> 00:29:25,721 What if this is the only chance I have? 580 00:29:25,722 --> 00:29:28,724 And what if Brian is close to cracking? 581 00:29:28,725 --> 00:29:31,645 ♪ ♪ 582 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,777 ATF OFFICER: Today's date, Friday, December 14, 2007. 583 00:29:39,778 --> 00:29:42,113 This will be a recorded conversation between 584 00:29:42,114 --> 00:29:44,281 Kathy Thomas and Brian Winchester. 585 00:29:44,282 --> 00:29:47,410 JOSEY: Kathy was going to meet with Brian. 586 00:29:47,411 --> 00:29:49,996 It would have to be in a secure location, 587 00:29:49,997 --> 00:29:53,749 a location that is public, daylight hours, 588 00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:56,961 easily accessible by us-- 589 00:29:56,962 --> 00:29:59,046 you know, all the things that would lead 590 00:29:59,047 --> 00:30:01,049 to the safety of Kathy. 591 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,391 JOSEY: I remember them wiring her up. 592 00:30:10,392 --> 00:30:11,726 PRODUCER: Do you have sight of her? 593 00:30:11,727 --> 00:30:13,811 - No, I mean, you know, 594 00:30:13,812 --> 00:30:16,522 we could hear her on the wire because I was her-- 595 00:30:16,523 --> 00:30:18,400 like, her main point of contact. 596 00:30:23,989 --> 00:30:25,364 KATHY: I'm terrified. 597 00:30:25,365 --> 00:30:28,493 My palms are sweaty. My heart is racing. 598 00:30:34,458 --> 00:30:37,043 KATHY: I am terrified I'm going to 599 00:30:37,044 --> 00:30:39,670 mess this up, you know? 600 00:30:39,671 --> 00:30:42,089 Because I don't know what I'm doing. 601 00:30:42,090 --> 00:30:43,799 - She's a soccer mom. 602 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,303 We don't need to be wiring up soccer moms. 603 00:30:47,304 --> 00:30:49,848 That's not what law enforcement needs to be doing. 604 00:30:52,476 --> 00:30:54,269 [Josey laughs] 605 00:30:57,689 --> 00:31:00,983 But Kathy Thomas was willing to do it 606 00:31:00,984 --> 00:31:02,903 because she wanted answers. 607 00:31:11,203 --> 00:31:13,079 - The key here is, is that Brian 608 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,247 never really knew what Kathy remembered. 609 00:31:15,248 --> 00:31:18,375 Kathy was never vocal with Brian 610 00:31:18,376 --> 00:31:22,296 about the morning that Mike disappeared. 611 00:31:22,297 --> 00:31:25,091 ♪ ♪ 612 00:31:25,092 --> 00:31:27,551 Our goal as law enforcement 613 00:31:27,552 --> 00:31:29,929 was to have this meeting where Brian 614 00:31:29,930 --> 00:31:33,849 would start quizzing her about what she remembers. 615 00:31:33,850 --> 00:31:37,520 Kathy was going to be very vague. 616 00:31:37,521 --> 00:31:41,232 And the goal was for Brian to implicate himself, 617 00:31:41,233 --> 00:31:44,151 you know, to say, OK, well, you need to say, 618 00:31:44,152 --> 00:31:46,779 I was here till 6:00 or whatever. 619 00:31:46,780 --> 00:31:48,364 That's what we needed. 620 00:31:48,365 --> 00:31:51,159 [footsteps] 621 00:32:36,788 --> 00:32:38,206 KATHY: Ugh. 622 00:33:10,405 --> 00:33:11,823 KATHY: [scoffs] 623 00:33:30,550 --> 00:33:32,259 - OK, if we gotta go to the courthouse, 624 00:33:32,260 --> 00:33:34,303 we're gonna call court security. 625 00:33:34,304 --> 00:33:35,512 And we're gonna tell them, 626 00:33:35,513 --> 00:33:37,097 let her go through with the wire on. 627 00:33:37,098 --> 00:33:39,099 That was my immediate thought. 628 00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:40,601 We can make this happen. 629 00:33:40,602 --> 00:33:43,729 Leon County Sheriff's Office does the courthouse. 630 00:33:43,730 --> 00:33:45,273 Let them through. 631 00:34:14,636 --> 00:34:17,263 [engine revs] 632 00:34:17,264 --> 00:34:21,309 ♪ ♪ 633 00:35:10,191 --> 00:35:16,031 ♪ ♪ 634 00:35:45,018 --> 00:35:46,436 BRIAN: No. 635 00:36:43,326 --> 00:36:47,454 KATHY: He starts in on our son. 636 00:36:47,455 --> 00:36:52,167 Just that manipulative way of using him, 637 00:36:52,168 --> 00:36:54,211 saying, if I go to prison, 638 00:36:54,212 --> 00:36:56,713 it's going to ruin Stafford's life. 639 00:36:56,714 --> 00:36:59,508 [sinister music] 640 00:36:59,509 --> 00:37:02,595 ♪ ♪ 641 00:37:08,977 --> 00:37:10,728 [engine revs] 642 00:37:15,817 --> 00:37:18,819 [tense music] 643 00:37:18,820 --> 00:37:21,071 JOSEY: As we continued the pressure with the case, 644 00:37:21,072 --> 00:37:24,908 I remember getting a phone call from Denise's attorney. 645 00:37:24,909 --> 00:37:27,703 And he was like, hey, you know, 646 00:37:27,704 --> 00:37:29,997 we'll turn that handgun over to you, 647 00:37:29,998 --> 00:37:32,833 so we'd freaking quit what we were doing. 648 00:37:32,834 --> 00:37:34,501 Without the handgun, 649 00:37:34,502 --> 00:37:37,463 we didn't really have, you know, a dog in the fight. 650 00:37:37,464 --> 00:37:39,757 Skin in the game-- our nexus was gone. 651 00:37:39,758 --> 00:37:43,761 - Josey said, Kathy, I'm gonna be off the case. 652 00:37:43,762 --> 00:37:45,596 You know, it was disappointing. 653 00:37:45,597 --> 00:37:50,434 If Josey had been able to stay on him, who knows? 654 00:37:50,435 --> 00:37:53,312 - I mean, it made no sense. Why did it fizzle? 655 00:37:53,313 --> 00:37:56,356 The ant was out of the anthill, man, you know? 656 00:37:56,357 --> 00:37:58,859 And it just-- it just, pfft, like that, you know? 657 00:37:58,860 --> 00:38:00,611 It just went away. 658 00:38:00,612 --> 00:38:03,363 [suspenseful music] 659 00:38:03,364 --> 00:38:05,532 I mean, we're not supposed to have any contact 660 00:38:05,533 --> 00:38:07,618 with reporters. 661 00:38:07,619 --> 00:38:10,037 You know, Jennifer Portman, God bless her, man. 662 00:38:10,038 --> 00:38:13,582 I just told her to keep doing what she was doing. 663 00:38:13,583 --> 00:38:16,376 JENNIFER PORTMAN: There was a sadness and a frustration 664 00:38:16,377 --> 00:38:19,671 on his part that he was not able to keep going. 665 00:38:19,672 --> 00:38:23,884 But he wanted me to make sure that I didn't give up 666 00:38:23,885 --> 00:38:26,470 and that I kept on it because, in all sincerity, 667 00:38:26,471 --> 00:38:29,056 he really felt like it was really important 668 00:38:29,057 --> 00:38:33,143 that I kept reporting on this and kept asking questions. 669 00:38:33,144 --> 00:38:35,896 ♪ ♪ 670 00:38:35,897 --> 00:38:39,817 KATHY: I did not have any faith left 671 00:38:39,818 --> 00:38:43,196 in law enforcement doing it. 672 00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:50,327 We're in this pattern now of co-parenting. 673 00:38:50,328 --> 00:38:53,080 Brian and I are having to communicate a lot, 674 00:38:53,081 --> 00:38:55,874 getting Stafford back and forth to sports, 675 00:38:55,875 --> 00:38:58,627 and school, and that sort of thing. 676 00:38:58,628 --> 00:39:01,046 He was still very controlling. 677 00:39:01,047 --> 00:39:04,800 And so it was very difficult when he would try to control 678 00:39:04,801 --> 00:39:08,595 our son's schedule in whatever way-- 679 00:39:08,596 --> 00:39:13,183 switching days, you're not getting him there on time. 680 00:39:13,184 --> 00:39:14,726 You need to pick him up early for this. 681 00:39:14,727 --> 00:39:17,187 You know, it was just constant, just-- 682 00:39:17,188 --> 00:39:19,690 like, he was just always bombarding me 683 00:39:19,691 --> 00:39:22,317 with some sort of request. 684 00:39:22,318 --> 00:39:24,528 [pensive music] 685 00:39:24,529 --> 00:39:27,030 I was on pins and needles all the time, 686 00:39:27,031 --> 00:39:30,075 just constantly agitated-- 687 00:39:30,076 --> 00:39:31,660 agitated because nothing's happening 688 00:39:31,661 --> 00:39:33,871 with the investigation. 689 00:39:33,872 --> 00:39:35,831 ♪ ♪ 690 00:39:35,832 --> 00:39:37,583 I didn't know what he had done. 691 00:39:37,584 --> 00:39:39,209 I didn't know what Denise had done. 692 00:39:39,210 --> 00:39:42,422 I just knew that they were at peace. 693 00:39:45,091 --> 00:39:48,885 No one else was at peace. But they were. 694 00:39:48,886 --> 00:39:54,308 And that meant they knew what happened to Mike. 695 00:39:54,309 --> 00:39:58,396 If that means where he is, how he died... 696 00:40:00,315 --> 00:40:03,984 They knew. They had peace with it. 697 00:40:03,985 --> 00:40:06,112 The rest of Tallahassee did not. 698 00:40:08,406 --> 00:40:10,616 I'm torn up about Mike. 699 00:40:10,617 --> 00:40:12,826 I'm torn up that 700 00:40:12,827 --> 00:40:15,621 law enforcement can't figure it out. 701 00:40:15,622 --> 00:40:18,206 It's affecting my marriage. 702 00:40:18,207 --> 00:40:21,543 It's affecting my patience with my children. 703 00:40:21,544 --> 00:40:23,253 Like, this is tearing me up. 704 00:40:23,254 --> 00:40:26,548 And he is over there, happy and settled, 705 00:40:26,549 --> 00:40:28,634 and he has no worries. 706 00:40:28,635 --> 00:40:30,010 He's good. 707 00:40:30,011 --> 00:40:31,929 He's good, and I'm torn up, 708 00:40:31,930 --> 00:40:36,850 and my life kind of feels like it's in this chaos. 709 00:40:36,851 --> 00:40:38,310 I'm not the person I want to be, 710 00:40:38,311 --> 00:40:40,270 I'm not the wife I want to be, I'm not the mom I want to be, 711 00:40:40,271 --> 00:40:42,064 and it's because of him. 712 00:40:42,065 --> 00:40:45,609 I'm just boiling. 713 00:40:45,610 --> 00:40:49,738 I just sort of snapped. 714 00:40:49,739 --> 00:40:53,909 I was going to go to his house and confront him. 715 00:40:53,910 --> 00:40:57,120 And I just kind of felt, 716 00:40:57,121 --> 00:41:01,833 I'm the only one... [sighs] 717 00:41:01,834 --> 00:41:03,543 Who can do this, I want to do this. 718 00:41:03,544 --> 00:41:05,212 I want him dead. 719 00:41:05,213 --> 00:41:07,297 And I said, I have to do it. 720 00:41:07,298 --> 00:41:08,924 I have to just go kill him. 721 00:41:08,925 --> 00:41:11,009 I cannot take this anymore. 722 00:41:11,010 --> 00:41:14,012 [dramatic music] 723 00:41:14,013 --> 00:41:20,811 ♪ ♪ 724 00:41:20,812 --> 00:41:24,648 And Rocky said to me, he said, 725 00:41:24,649 --> 00:41:28,902 Kathy, if you do that, 726 00:41:28,903 --> 00:41:32,447 you will go to jail. 727 00:41:32,448 --> 00:41:37,619 And as I settled down and just started kind of 728 00:41:37,620 --> 00:41:39,788 talking through some of this, 729 00:41:39,789 --> 00:41:42,457 I would always go back to, 730 00:41:42,458 --> 00:41:45,335 as long as they're together, 731 00:41:45,336 --> 00:41:47,880 nothing's going to happen. 732 00:41:50,383 --> 00:41:53,343 This is where the good stuff starts. 733 00:41:53,344 --> 00:41:56,346 [sinister music] 734 00:41:56,347 --> 00:42:01,227 ♪ ♪ 734 00:42:02,305 --> 00:43:02,734