"Mr. & Mrs. Murder" He Got Her

1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:12,074 Watch Online Movies and Series for FREE www.osdb.link/lm 2 00:00:45,587 --> 00:00:49,090 It started out on the baseball field. 3 00:00:49,091 --> 00:00:54,136 And Mike's daughter, Anslee, would be out there 4 00:00:54,137 --> 00:00:56,264 with Stafford, playing. 5 00:01:04,731 --> 00:01:09,026 And there was a time that I said to Anslee, 6 00:01:09,027 --> 00:01:12,530 "Go tell your mom she can come over here too." 7 00:01:12,531 --> 00:01:15,449 So she went over and told Denise. 8 00:01:15,450 --> 00:01:18,577 And Denise comes walking over. 9 00:01:18,578 --> 00:01:20,413 <i>We had, you know, the sitting chairs.</i> 10 00:01:20,414 --> 00:01:23,083 <i>Had an extra one there, so Denise sits there.</i> 11 00:01:27,045 --> 00:01:33,844 We started talking about our kids and what they were doing. 12 00:01:36,471 --> 00:01:42,476 And so even though we had been through all of the bad years, 13 00:01:42,477 --> 00:01:44,228 <i>we had been friends before.</i> 14 00:01:44,229 --> 00:01:46,314 Get him out of the way so we could see your face. 15 00:01:46,315 --> 00:01:47,898 Okay, how about this? 16 00:01:47,899 --> 00:01:52,361 <i>There was a familiarity there between us.</i> 17 00:01:52,362 --> 00:01:56,824 And we just look like two moms sitting there, 18 00:01:56,825 --> 00:01:58,368 you know, watching our kids play. 19 00:02:06,710 --> 00:02:11,505 As time goes on, there would just, like, 20 00:02:11,506 --> 00:02:14,801 be this slow warming of that friendship... 21 00:02:17,304 --> 00:02:21,724 As if we had just left the past in the past 22 00:02:21,725 --> 00:02:23,477 and picked up where we left off. 23 00:02:26,521 --> 00:02:31,567 Somehow, we never had a moment where we said-- 24 00:02:31,568 --> 00:02:33,319 you know, she said, "I'm sorry," 25 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,488 and I said, "I forgive you." 26 00:02:35,489 --> 00:02:41,078 <i>I had to suppress all of those feelings of her betrayal.</i> 27 00:02:43,288 --> 00:02:48,126 Because my new goal is bigger than whatever I felt before. 28 00:02:50,629 --> 00:02:54,299 <i>My new goal is to find out what happened to Mike.</i> 29 00:02:56,510 --> 00:03:00,055 <i>I knew Brian knew what the true story was.</i> 30 00:03:01,807 --> 00:03:04,601 <i>And I suspected Denise did too.</i> 31 00:03:07,562 --> 00:03:09,980 But as long as they're together, 32 00:03:09,981 --> 00:03:11,691 it's--it's never gonna be solved. 33 00:03:11,692 --> 00:03:12,943 And that's what was happening. 34 00:03:15,195 --> 00:03:20,616 <i>I did not have any faith in law enforcement.</i> 35 00:03:20,617 --> 00:03:23,828 So this is it. This is all I've got left, 36 00:03:23,829 --> 00:03:27,456 is to try to get close to her again. 37 00:03:27,457 --> 00:03:29,501 And break them up. 38 00:03:34,089 --> 00:03:36,715 As a journalist, I felt like I had an obligation 39 00:03:36,716 --> 00:03:40,428 to Cheryl and his family to, like, continue just keeping 40 00:03:40,429 --> 00:03:45,516 Mike's case in the public eye. 41 00:03:45,517 --> 00:03:48,436 <i>Just to remind people</i> 42 00:03:48,437 --> 00:03:52,022 <i>that Mike Williams is still missing.</i> 43 00:03:52,023 --> 00:03:54,775 <i>So now that these articles have flittered out enough</i> 44 00:03:54,776 --> 00:03:56,819 <i>in the universe, we start getting some interest</i> 45 00:03:56,820 --> 00:03:58,487 <i>from outside the community.</i> 46 00:03:58,488 --> 00:04:01,407 <i>And one national TV broadcaster decided</i> 47 00:04:01,408 --> 00:04:02,908 <i>to produce a documentary.</i> 48 00:04:09,291 --> 00:04:11,250 <i>I just found out that Mike's show</i> 49 00:04:11,251 --> 00:04:14,920 <i>will be shown on Discovery ID "Disappeared"</i> 50 00:04:14,921 --> 00:04:18,382 <i>on November 28th at 10:00 p.m.</i> 51 00:04:18,383 --> 00:04:22,761 <i>Finally, the world will know about Mike's disappearance.</i> 52 00:04:26,641 --> 00:04:28,684 <i>The million-dollar life insurance policy</i> 53 00:04:28,685 --> 00:04:30,895 <i>Mike bought six months before he disappeared</i> 54 00:04:30,896 --> 00:04:34,064 <i>was sold to him by Brian Winchester,</i> 55 00:04:34,065 --> 00:04:37,777 <i>now the husband of Denise Williams, Mike's widow.</i> 56 00:04:39,988 --> 00:04:42,156 <i> When that documentary aired,</i> 57 00:04:42,157 --> 00:04:45,951 <i>people started commenting online about Brian and Denise.</i> 58 00:04:45,952 --> 00:04:48,078 <i>Why didn't you look for your husband?</i> 59 00:04:48,079 --> 00:04:49,538 <i>What about this insurance?</i> 60 00:04:49,539 --> 00:04:51,457 <i>I mean, you know, like, everyone's making</i> 61 00:04:51,458 --> 00:04:54,335 the inference that you were involved. 62 00:04:54,336 --> 00:04:56,879 <i> It was just hundreds of pages</i> 63 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,965 <i>and thousands of comments,</i> 64 00:04:59,966 --> 00:05:01,884 you know, saying Brian had to know something, 65 00:05:01,885 --> 00:05:03,552 Denise had to know something. 66 00:05:03,553 --> 00:05:07,932 But, like, it was really weird to me. 67 00:05:07,933 --> 00:05:11,769 Brian was always an asshole, 68 00:05:11,770 --> 00:05:15,523 <i>but I never thought he was capable of murder.</i> 69 00:05:15,524 --> 00:05:19,318 And also, there's no way that Denise would 70 00:05:19,319 --> 00:05:21,988 remotely plot to hurt Mike. 71 00:05:24,533 --> 00:05:27,952 <i>And Brian was rattled.</i> 72 00:05:27,953 --> 00:05:30,788 <i>Brian printed out that entire forum</i> 73 00:05:30,789 --> 00:05:32,749 and carried it with him every day. 74 00:05:35,919 --> 00:05:39,129 People started really making lots of comments. 75 00:05:39,130 --> 00:05:41,007 I mean, it was spooled up. 76 00:05:42,926 --> 00:05:46,345 <i>Brian and Denise, they wanted everybody</i> 77 00:05:46,346 --> 00:05:51,267 to quit asking questions, and to quit, you know, 78 00:05:51,268 --> 00:05:52,977 with all the speculation. 79 00:05:52,978 --> 00:05:57,314 I mean--but we all had so many questions from every-- 80 00:05:57,315 --> 00:05:58,942 every different position. 81 00:06:05,282 --> 00:06:06,992 <i> It infiltrated everything.</i> 82 00:06:08,827 --> 00:06:10,578 <i> People would call the office</i> 83 00:06:10,579 --> 00:06:17,126 <i>and leave voicemails that were awful.</i> 84 00:06:17,127 --> 00:06:23,466 And it was hard because I was scared. 85 00:06:28,054 --> 00:06:30,931 Brian was getting a little bit more frantic 86 00:06:30,932 --> 00:06:35,185 and a little bit more hard to talk to. 87 00:06:36,938 --> 00:06:41,233 <i>I think he kind of made Denise on edge about it,</i> 88 00:06:41,234 --> 00:06:44,278 <i>and I think it just wore on her.</i> 89 00:06:48,575 --> 00:06:50,826 <i> So I'm starting to see,</i> 90 00:06:50,827 --> 00:06:52,454 things are brewing in their marriage. 91 00:06:54,289 --> 00:06:58,459 <i>Denise started opening up to me</i> 92 00:06:58,460 --> 00:07:01,087 about how he was not easy to live with. 93 00:07:03,131 --> 00:07:04,549 <i>So that's where we got.</i> 94 00:07:09,512 --> 00:07:14,059 <i>I was in this position that I had waited for.</i> 95 00:07:16,936 --> 00:07:19,772 I am her go-to girl. 96 00:07:19,773 --> 00:07:21,066 Like, she trusts me. 97 00:07:28,073 --> 00:07:30,867 Jesus makes a difference. 98 00:07:34,329 --> 00:07:37,832 Jesus makes a difference in a home. 99 00:07:39,584 --> 00:07:42,670 Stafford's first birthday. 100 00:07:42,671 --> 00:07:44,380 Where's Stafford? 101 00:07:44,381 --> 00:07:48,050 <i>What a beautiful, beautiful scene.</i> 102 00:07:48,051 --> 00:07:50,302 <i>And every one of you is gonna</i> 103 00:07:50,303 --> 00:07:53,222 be born again, and in the Father, the Son, 104 00:07:53,223 --> 00:07:55,057 the Holy Spirit. 105 00:07:55,058 --> 00:08:00,230 And yet, behind the rose bush, though... 106 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:05,943 <i>Lurked the serpent.</i> 107 00:08:14,536 --> 00:08:17,579 <i> As the months go on,</i> 108 00:08:17,580 --> 00:08:21,792 Brian is pretty much becoming the same husband to her 109 00:08:21,793 --> 00:08:24,378 as he had been to me. 110 00:08:24,379 --> 00:08:27,256 <i>Denise spent hours on the phone talking to me</i> 111 00:08:27,257 --> 00:08:29,175 about how controlling he was. 112 00:08:32,429 --> 00:08:37,599 <i>He would hack into her phone to read her texts,</i> 113 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,893 probably doing it to make sure she's 114 00:08:39,894 --> 00:08:44,314 not talking to another man. 115 00:08:44,315 --> 00:08:48,695 <i>But she felt like he was watching her all the time.</i> 116 00:09:15,263 --> 00:09:16,889 <i> Brian and Denise</i> 117 00:09:16,890 --> 00:09:19,266 had bought a house together, 118 00:09:19,267 --> 00:09:21,727 and they were gonna move into it. 119 00:09:21,728 --> 00:09:24,480 But Denise wouldn't leave the house 120 00:09:24,481 --> 00:09:25,732 that she lived with--with Mike. 121 00:09:33,448 --> 00:09:34,948 <i> They fought a lot.</i> 122 00:09:38,411 --> 00:09:42,956 She started confiding in me about the things 123 00:09:42,957 --> 00:09:47,753 that they would argue about, about how he never worked, 124 00:09:47,754 --> 00:09:51,548 about, um, the money he wanted to spend. 125 00:09:51,549 --> 00:09:53,550 He's, um, drinking. 126 00:09:53,551 --> 00:09:55,010 He's taking drugs. 127 00:09:55,011 --> 00:09:56,304 He's going out to bars. 128 00:09:58,098 --> 00:10:02,392 <i>I want her to feel like I am loyal to her.</i> 129 00:10:02,393 --> 00:10:08,023 But I am, in essence, 130 00:10:08,024 --> 00:10:11,193 driving them apart 131 00:10:11,194 --> 00:10:14,822 <i>because I'm in her ear.</i> 132 00:10:14,823 --> 00:10:18,117 Every now and then, I would throw in, "I know! 133 00:10:18,118 --> 00:10:21,495 "I know this is what he's like 134 00:10:21,496 --> 00:10:24,124 <i>because that's exactly who he was with me."</i> 135 00:10:29,045 --> 00:10:32,881 <i>I tried to seem sympathetic,</i> 136 00:10:32,882 --> 00:10:35,217 but it definitely brought me 137 00:10:35,218 --> 00:10:38,512 a lot of satisfaction when she would talk to me 138 00:10:38,513 --> 00:10:40,348 about the things that he was doing. 139 00:10:43,268 --> 00:10:45,519 You get what you deserve. 140 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,856 Like, I felt like she deserved it. 141 00:10:55,113 --> 00:10:57,990 <i>Denise and I have a disagreement.</i> 142 00:10:57,991 --> 00:11:00,617 <i>She is totally disrespectful to me</i> 143 00:11:00,618 --> 00:11:04,329 <i>in front of Anslee again, and I leave to my office,</i> 144 00:11:04,330 --> 00:11:05,998 <i>and I look at Craigslist ads</i> 145 00:11:05,999 --> 00:11:09,209 <i>and fantasize about hookers and cheating.</i> 146 00:11:09,210 --> 00:11:13,673 <i>Somehow later, Denise finds this on my computer.</i> 147 00:11:19,345 --> 00:11:22,890 <i>During all of this, the Mike Williams investigation,</i> 148 00:11:22,891 --> 00:11:25,851 <i>accusations, witch hunt went on,</i> 149 00:11:25,852 --> 00:11:29,271 <i>which shamed and isolated both of us.</i> 150 00:11:29,272 --> 00:11:32,609 <i>And I medicated all that shame and pain through sex.</i> 151 00:11:36,571 --> 00:11:39,865 <i>Brian's parents had a mobile home</i> 152 00:11:39,866 --> 00:11:42,242 <i>that was on a piece of property</i> 153 00:11:42,243 --> 00:11:46,121 <i>at Lake Iamonia in Tallahassee.</i> 154 00:11:46,122 --> 00:11:48,832 Denise was concerned that he would 155 00:11:48,833 --> 00:11:53,253 have prostitutes, parties, 156 00:11:53,254 --> 00:11:56,591 <i>and very bad things going on in there.</i> 157 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,723 <i> She was realizing,</i> 158 00:12:04,724 --> 00:12:07,727 this is a man who is going to hurt me. 159 00:12:10,438 --> 00:12:13,399 <i>I look back now and I think...</i> 160 00:12:15,568 --> 00:12:20,948 I wish I'd taken her hand and said... 161 00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:24,369 "Just come with me. Just come--stay with me. 162 00:12:26,621 --> 00:12:29,498 It's not gonna get better." 163 00:12:37,632 --> 00:12:43,011 <i>Friday, we got into an argument, and I lost it.</i> 164 00:12:43,012 --> 00:12:47,015 Mom came to tell me that they'd had a really big fight, 165 00:12:47,016 --> 00:12:50,269 and that they were throwing things at each other. 166 00:12:50,270 --> 00:12:53,188 And I was just like, "What are you talking about?" 167 00:12:53,189 --> 00:12:57,359 <i>We were told that it was about Anslee.</i> 168 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,697 <i>Anslee was, you know, 12, 13 years old.</i> 169 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,242 Brian didn't want her hanging out with boys, 170 00:13:05,243 --> 00:13:07,286 and Brian didn't want her to dress a certain way. 171 00:13:08,955 --> 00:13:11,832 <i>And Denise was like, you're not her father.</i> 172 00:13:11,833 --> 00:13:15,003 <i>She is my child, and I will make the decisions.</i> 173 00:13:17,255 --> 00:13:18,797 <i>I grabbed her by her arms</i> 174 00:13:18,798 --> 00:13:20,382 <i>and pushed her up against a door,</i> 175 00:13:20,383 --> 00:13:22,468 <i>screaming, "I can't take it."</i> 176 00:13:24,804 --> 00:13:26,680 <i>I saw how she was scared,</i> 177 00:13:26,681 --> 00:13:30,225 <i>so I let her go, and she ran out.</i> 178 00:13:30,226 --> 00:13:32,352 <i>I kicked the table across the room</i> 179 00:13:32,353 --> 00:13:34,980 <i>and it flew into Denise's ceramic figurines</i> 180 00:13:34,981 --> 00:13:36,607 <i>and broke a lot of them.</i> 181 00:13:39,902 --> 00:13:42,571 <i>Turned out, they were some that</i> 182 00:13:42,572 --> 00:13:45,741 <i>Mike had given her, of course.</i> 183 00:13:45,742 --> 00:13:47,785 <i>And she thinks I did it on purpose.</i> 184 00:13:52,623 --> 00:13:55,667 <i> She was like, "Get out."</i> 185 00:13:55,668 --> 00:13:57,044 I don't know where he went that night, 186 00:13:57,045 --> 00:14:01,590 but she bagged up all of his clothes 187 00:14:01,591 --> 00:14:02,841 <i>and took them to the office</i> 188 00:14:02,842 --> 00:14:03,968 <i>and put them in the back of his truck.</i> 189 00:14:07,555 --> 00:14:10,807 I did feel a lot of satisfaction 190 00:14:10,808 --> 00:14:14,478 that they were imploding, 191 00:14:14,479 --> 00:14:18,565 <i>because now it's Brian versus her,</i> 192 00:14:18,566 --> 00:14:24,489 <i>so I knew that was a good thing for my end goal.</i> 193 00:14:26,115 --> 00:14:27,575 I loved it. 194 00:14:38,002 --> 00:14:40,546 <i>I have been kicked out of the house by Denise.</i> 195 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,134 <i>I've been living with my parents.</i> 196 00:14:46,135 --> 00:14:48,136 <i>It has been awful.</i> 197 00:14:48,137 --> 00:14:49,138 Awful. 198 00:14:50,765 --> 00:14:52,849 <i>I hope this is rock bottom.</i> 199 00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:55,645 <i>I guess it could be worse, but not much.</i> 200 00:14:59,482 --> 00:15:04,069 For Denise, this nightmare 201 00:15:04,070 --> 00:15:06,905 was finally gonna be over. 202 00:15:06,906 --> 00:15:09,407 It was a new chapter and a new beginning. 203 00:15:13,663 --> 00:15:16,206 <i>It meant that she could live again.</i> 204 00:15:16,207 --> 00:15:18,543 <i>Or really start living.</i> 205 00:15:21,754 --> 00:15:24,673 <i>Through the church, she had the opportunity</i> 206 00:15:24,674 --> 00:15:27,468 <i>to serve on these missions.</i> 207 00:15:30,471 --> 00:15:34,724 <i>She went to Central America.</i> 208 00:15:34,725 --> 00:15:36,726 Here is the process 209 00:15:36,727 --> 00:15:43,024 of making our "sowing seeds of love" playground signs. 210 00:15:43,025 --> 00:15:44,317 Look at Denise. 211 00:15:44,318 --> 00:15:48,280 Look at all the love going into this project. 212 00:15:48,281 --> 00:15:52,368 <i>Denise is just living her best life.</i> 213 00:15:54,745 --> 00:15:57,664 Anslee is at a fun age. 214 00:15:57,665 --> 00:16:02,669 You know, the--her daughter is this beautiful teenage girl. 215 00:16:02,670 --> 00:16:06,047 <i>She's fun and fun to be around.</i> 216 00:16:06,048 --> 00:16:09,010 <i>They're shopping buddies, they're traveling buddies.</i> 217 00:16:11,429 --> 00:16:16,349 She's probably the happiest I'd ever seen her. 218 00:16:16,350 --> 00:16:18,351 Truly. 219 00:16:18,352 --> 00:16:20,562 <i> I do not want to separate.</i> 220 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:29,571 <i>Meanwhile, she is seen to be living her dream with Anslee.</i> 221 00:16:29,572 --> 00:16:33,241 <i>She fills her days and nights with TV, Anslee,</i> 222 00:16:33,242 --> 00:16:34,951 <i>shopping and eating out.</i> 223 00:16:34,952 --> 00:16:39,456 <i>Anslee going to New York for Thanksgiving.</i> 224 00:16:39,457 --> 00:16:40,749 <i>Movies.</i> 225 00:16:45,546 --> 00:16:48,131 <i>Fun, fun, fun.</i> 226 00:17:02,021 --> 00:17:05,816 Stafford lived with Brian whenever he wasn't at my home. 227 00:17:09,278 --> 00:17:13,323 <i>This is the first time that Brian's ever been co-parenting</i> 228 00:17:13,324 --> 00:17:17,869 <i>Stafford on his own, pretty much,</i> 229 00:17:17,870 --> 00:17:21,790 <i>without a wife to help him.</i> 230 00:17:21,791 --> 00:17:24,043 A bunch of ducks over there in front of you. 231 00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:32,175 Stafford had mentioned to me that one thing they would 232 00:17:32,176 --> 00:17:36,846 do every day was, they were praying 233 00:17:36,847 --> 00:17:42,769 <i>that God would have Denise let them come back home.</i> 234 00:17:50,653 --> 00:17:56,283 <i>I want us moving towards each other, not apart.</i> 235 00:17:56,284 --> 00:17:58,743 <i>The more I become like Christ, the more attractive</i> 236 00:17:58,744 --> 00:18:00,538 <i>I'll be to her.</i> 237 00:18:10,298 --> 00:18:13,341 <i>Uh, I was at a party with, uh,</i> 238 00:18:13,342 --> 00:18:15,051 <i>with Brian.</i> 239 00:18:15,052 --> 00:18:17,470 And we sat down and we were talking. 240 00:18:17,471 --> 00:18:20,974 And I asked him how he and Denise were doing, 241 00:18:20,975 --> 00:18:23,101 and he said they were still split up, 242 00:18:23,102 --> 00:18:26,563 uh, but he was gonna be hopefully trying 243 00:18:26,564 --> 00:18:28,356 to get back together with her. 244 00:18:28,357 --> 00:18:32,986 Um, I do recall, he was, um-- 245 00:18:32,987 --> 00:18:39,617 you could just--you could just tell that he had aged a lot. 246 00:18:39,618 --> 00:18:41,870 I even remarked to my wife that night, 247 00:18:41,871 --> 00:18:45,540 I said, "Brian--Brian looks haggard to be--to be our age. 248 00:18:45,541 --> 00:18:47,043 He just--he looks haggard." 249 00:18:50,421 --> 00:18:52,380 <i>Brian and Denise knew each other</i> 250 00:18:52,381 --> 00:18:55,008 <i>from three-year-old preschool.</i> 251 00:18:55,009 --> 00:18:59,929 <i>And the television shows that my brother would watch,</i> 252 00:18:59,930 --> 00:19:02,057 it was always about, we know each other 253 00:19:02,058 --> 00:19:04,225 since we were little, and then we knew each other 254 00:19:04,226 --> 00:19:06,269 in middle school, and then we got married. 255 00:19:06,270 --> 00:19:10,732 <i>And that was just kind of like a fantasy romantic</i> 256 00:19:10,733 --> 00:19:12,693 storyline of his life. 257 00:19:15,112 --> 00:19:18,699 <i>And he made the comment that Denise was his soulmate.</i> 258 00:19:20,826 --> 00:19:26,581 <i>For Brian, it was a bond that just had to be acted on</i> 259 00:19:26,582 --> 00:19:31,252 over and over, and... 260 00:19:31,253 --> 00:19:33,923 you start scratching that itch and it doesn't go away. 261 00:19:36,342 --> 00:19:39,844 <i>And that's just Brian's personality.</i> 262 00:19:39,845 --> 00:19:42,806 <i>Denise, my perspective has been skewed</i> 263 00:19:42,807 --> 00:19:46,394 <i>by 30 years of drinking the poison of pornography.</i> 264 00:19:47,978 --> 00:19:51,898 <i>Would you marry the Brian you knew again?</i> 265 00:19:51,899 --> 00:19:54,568 <i>I plan on being better than that Brian.</i> 266 00:19:57,530 --> 00:20:01,658 <i>I was hopeful that if Denise divorced Brian,</i> 267 00:20:01,659 --> 00:20:05,371 <i>she would open up and tell me what had happened to Mike.</i> 268 00:20:07,623 --> 00:20:09,874 Now, this is a woman who, 269 00:20:09,875 --> 00:20:12,335 divorce was not something she believed in, 270 00:20:12,336 --> 00:20:18,842 <i>but her church mentors had said, based on his behavior</i> 271 00:20:18,843 --> 00:20:23,430 <i>towards her, that she has</i> 272 00:20:23,431 --> 00:20:27,976 <i>a biblical allowance to divorce him.</i> 273 00:20:27,977 --> 00:20:32,731 I blatantly told her over and over, 274 00:20:32,732 --> 00:20:34,107 "You're going to have to divorce him, 275 00:20:34,108 --> 00:20:36,693 <i>divorce him, divorce him."</i> 276 00:20:36,694 --> 00:20:40,071 It was desperation. 277 00:20:40,072 --> 00:20:42,032 You know, I was desperate. 278 00:20:44,285 --> 00:20:48,663 <i>And finally, I was able to convince her</i> 279 00:20:48,664 --> 00:20:50,999 <i>to file the paperwork</i> 280 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,711 to take him to court, to divorce him. 281 00:20:54,712 --> 00:20:58,923 And there was a lot of exhilaration about that. 282 00:20:58,924 --> 00:21:02,302 I was really, really happy about it. 283 00:21:02,303 --> 00:21:04,221 I was really proud. 284 00:21:08,350 --> 00:21:10,394 <i> It made him crazy.</i> 285 00:21:12,605 --> 00:21:15,356 It made him crazy that she wanted a divorce. 286 00:21:15,357 --> 00:21:17,026 And literally, he couldn't stop it. 287 00:21:18,944 --> 00:21:21,237 <i>Brian, you know that I have wanted</i> 288 00:21:21,238 --> 00:21:25,408 <i>to separate the finances since before Christmas.</i> 289 00:21:25,409 --> 00:21:27,619 <i>Denise, I don't think that you sending me</i> 290 00:21:27,620 --> 00:21:30,205 <i>a bill every month that I probably won't be able to pay</i> 291 00:21:30,206 --> 00:21:32,625 <i>is gonna be positive for either of us.</i> 292 00:21:34,543 --> 00:21:36,377 He was just trying to postpone it 293 00:21:36,378 --> 00:21:38,004 and convince her to stay. 294 00:21:38,005 --> 00:21:39,714 <i>I wanted to share with you a list</i> 295 00:21:39,715 --> 00:21:41,508 <i>of a few things I love about you.</i> 296 00:21:41,509 --> 00:21:43,259 <i>The best times and memories of my life</i> 297 00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:44,552 <i>have been spent with you.</i> 298 00:21:44,553 --> 00:21:46,679 <i>Perfect, flawless skin, except for that</i> 299 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,515 <i>once-a-year pimple that I love, too,</i> 300 00:21:48,516 --> 00:21:49,933 <i>because it makes you human.</i> 301 00:21:49,934 --> 00:21:51,100 <i>I love holding your hand.</i> 302 00:21:51,101 --> 00:21:52,520 <i>I love spooning you.</i> 303 00:21:55,397 --> 00:21:59,943 You know, he couldn't control Denise, and that he was lost. 304 00:21:59,944 --> 00:22:02,821 <i>You will answer to God for this decision.</i> 305 00:22:02,822 --> 00:22:05,907 <i>Your kids will wonder, why was Jesus not enough?</i> 306 00:22:05,908 --> 00:22:08,869 And he drug it out for years. 307 00:22:19,129 --> 00:22:25,469 This man was not going to let Denise be free of him. 308 00:22:27,555 --> 00:22:31,892 <i>You know, he would do anything to have her...</i> 309 00:22:35,688 --> 00:22:37,398 And then he got her. 310 00:22:43,612 --> 00:22:47,782 So in the morning of August 5th, I'm at home, 311 00:22:47,783 --> 00:22:50,577 and it's just sort of a regular morning. 312 00:22:52,288 --> 00:22:55,873 <i>I got a call from Denise's sister.</i> 313 00:22:55,874 --> 00:22:59,794 <i>She tells me that Brian had kidnapped Denise.</i> 314 00:22:59,795 --> 00:23:01,671 She said they're looking for Brian. 315 00:23:01,672 --> 00:23:05,967 This was outside the realm of what I would have 316 00:23:05,968 --> 00:23:07,927 imagined he was capable of. 317 00:23:07,928 --> 00:23:10,389 What is he doing? What is he doing? 318 00:28:01,263 --> 00:28:02,264 Okay. 319 00:28:15,819 --> 00:28:19,030 The thought of him driving around Tallahassee 320 00:28:19,031 --> 00:28:23,577 with a gun on the seat beside him was terrifying. 321 00:28:26,455 --> 00:28:30,249 <i>My son works at a fast food restaurant.</i> 322 00:28:30,250 --> 00:28:33,210 So I call him, he came home, 323 00:28:33,211 --> 00:28:34,963 and we locked down in the house. 324 00:28:38,675 --> 00:28:42,553 We had no idea what the next phone call was gonna bring, 325 00:28:42,554 --> 00:28:45,390 but it just didn't feel like it was gonna be good. 326 00:28:48,101 --> 00:28:51,812 <i>There was a sense of doom about it.</i> 327 00:28:51,813 --> 00:28:54,650 I was afraid that... 328 00:28:57,319 --> 00:28:59,154 Yes, I was scared. 329 00:29:09,498 --> 00:29:15,211 There was always speculation that Brian Winchester 330 00:29:15,212 --> 00:29:19,507 and Denise Williams somehow were involved 331 00:29:19,508 --> 00:29:22,301 in the disappearance of Mike. 332 00:29:23,845 --> 00:29:28,015 <i>And on August 5th, the FDLE Investigative Team</i> 333 00:29:28,016 --> 00:29:30,142 <i>got a phone call that said</i> 334 00:29:30,143 --> 00:29:33,229 <i>Denise is at the sheriff's office</i> 335 00:29:33,230 --> 00:29:36,941 filing a report of an armed kidnapping 336 00:29:36,942 --> 00:29:40,362 <i>that was</i> committed by Brian Winchester. 337 00:29:42,948 --> 00:29:46,034 At that point, Brian was still in the wind. 338 00:29:47,786 --> 00:29:51,956 <i>This is our opportunity to get information related</i> 339 00:29:51,957 --> 00:29:54,209 <i>to--to Mike's disappearance.</i> 340 00:29:58,130 --> 00:30:01,048 <i>It was believed by the team at the time</i> 341 00:30:01,049 --> 00:30:05,011 <i>that she did not want to talk about the case.</i> 342 00:30:05,012 --> 00:30:08,472 So it's, all right, let's see if we can get someone 343 00:30:08,473 --> 00:30:12,978 on the team that she is comfortable talking with. 344 00:30:18,275 --> 00:30:20,693 <i>We asked Denise's brother-in-law,</i> 345 00:30:20,694 --> 00:30:24,488 Officer McCranie, as a family member, 346 00:30:24,489 --> 00:30:27,533 to try to convince her to open up 347 00:30:27,534 --> 00:30:29,286 <i>about what she knew.</i> 348 00:30:31,121 --> 00:30:34,874 <i>We were able to see all of the conversations</i> 349 00:30:34,875 --> 00:30:37,878 <i>on a monitor there in the office.</i> 350 00:32:15,851 --> 00:32:18,352 <i>After the kidnapping, she was very concerned</i> 351 00:32:18,353 --> 00:32:19,604 <i>for their safety.</i> 352 00:32:21,606 --> 00:32:25,067 <i>We were hoping that she would have something</i> 353 00:32:25,068 --> 00:32:29,280 that she would have told us that would have implicated 354 00:32:29,281 --> 00:32:31,825 Brian after the disappearance. 355 00:33:06,693 --> 00:33:08,611 We thought that we were getting pretty close 356 00:33:08,612 --> 00:33:10,571 to Denise saying something. 357 00:33:10,572 --> 00:33:11,698 Let me go see what they're doing. 358 00:33:14,034 --> 00:33:16,410 <i>Everybody was ready for that--</i> 359 00:33:16,411 --> 00:33:19,496 <i>that point in time where she gave us</i> 360 00:33:19,497 --> 00:33:22,458 something with a little meat left on the bone 361 00:33:22,459 --> 00:33:23,793 that we can run on. 362 00:33:25,420 --> 00:33:26,921 Hey. How you doing? 363 00:33:26,922 --> 00:33:28,464 - Good. How are you? - Fine. 364 00:33:28,465 --> 00:33:31,425 <i>Finally, Special Agent Michael Devaney</i> 365 00:33:31,426 --> 00:33:35,972 went in to try to elicit something out of Denise. 366 00:34:42,706 --> 00:34:46,875 <i>But she was pretty closed off.</i> 367 00:34:46,876 --> 00:34:49,420 <i>All business. Kind of cold.</i> 368 00:34:49,421 --> 00:34:52,966 Very focused on what had happened to her that morning. 369 00:36:18,301 --> 00:36:21,762 Brian got arrested at the office. 370 00:36:21,763 --> 00:36:22,931 A SWAT team showed up. 371 00:36:26,017 --> 00:36:29,561 <i>You know, it was just so outlandish.</i> 372 00:36:29,562 --> 00:36:31,897 Oh, he said that it was a total lie. 373 00:36:31,898 --> 00:36:33,482 He was in the car with her, but he's like, 374 00:36:33,483 --> 00:36:34,691 "I didn't have a gun. 375 00:36:34,692 --> 00:36:35,860 "Why would I have a gun? 376 00:36:39,072 --> 00:36:43,701 "I was just trying to convince her to not file for divorce 377 00:36:43,702 --> 00:36:46,412 "and not get this divorce. 378 00:36:46,413 --> 00:36:48,665 <i>I don't know what she's talking about."</i> 379 00:36:55,046 --> 00:36:57,631 <i>Denise did not leave the sheriff's department</i> 380 00:36:57,632 --> 00:37:01,719 until Brian had already been picked up. 381 00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:04,346 I talked to her several times that afternoon. 382 00:37:04,347 --> 00:37:07,099 She seemed genuinely frightened. 383 00:37:10,478 --> 00:37:14,190 <i> I was in my office when...</i> 384 00:37:15,734 --> 00:37:19,987 Denise called me and told me what had happened. 385 00:37:19,988 --> 00:37:25,659 Just the hell of those moments 386 00:37:25,660 --> 00:37:29,830 of thinking she was gonna die, 387 00:37:29,831 --> 00:37:32,916 she was gonna not see her daughter ever again, 388 00:37:32,917 --> 00:37:37,379 this daughter that she's... 389 00:37:37,380 --> 00:37:41,884 done everything to protect, to raise, to love. 390 00:37:41,885 --> 00:37:47,848 The horror of that moment... 391 00:37:47,849 --> 00:37:49,558 I can't even imagine. 392 00:37:53,188 --> 00:37:55,147 <i> Every morning, I would look</i> 393 00:37:55,148 --> 00:37:56,857 <i>at the Leon County Booking Report</i> 394 00:37:56,858 --> 00:37:58,942 to see who, in the last 24 hours, 395 00:37:58,943 --> 00:38:01,653 had been arrested and booked into the Leon County Jail. 396 00:38:01,654 --> 00:38:05,407 So I'm doing my usual, like, opening up the booking report, 397 00:38:05,408 --> 00:38:07,951 and I look, and I scroll down, 398 00:38:07,952 --> 00:38:11,371 and I see a very grumpy face 399 00:38:11,372 --> 00:38:13,540 that looks like Brian Winchester. 400 00:38:13,541 --> 00:38:16,710 <i>And I see that Brian Winchester is accused</i> 401 00:38:16,711 --> 00:38:22,132 <i>of kidnapping Denise Merrill Williams.</i> 402 00:38:22,133 --> 00:38:27,514 And I was like, oh, my gosh, game on. 403 00:38:29,057 --> 00:38:34,311 <i>I knew instantly, it has every, every implication</i> 404 00:38:34,312 --> 00:38:36,897 <i>for this cold case of Mike Williams,</i> 405 00:38:36,898 --> 00:38:39,817 <i>and everybody who knows anything at all</i> 406 00:38:39,818 --> 00:38:44,238 <i>about this case knows that this is a big, big moment.</i> 407 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,741 Brian and Denise were no longer a unit. 408 00:38:47,742 --> 00:38:51,161 <i>They were no longer a united force.</i> 409 00:38:51,162 --> 00:38:55,123 <i>So if the theory, as law enforcement had always said,</i> 410 00:38:55,124 --> 00:38:59,211 <i>that one has to turn on the other,</i> 411 00:38:59,212 --> 00:39:01,089 it seemed clear that this was ripe for that. 412 00:39:04,592 --> 00:39:07,261 <i> He did not get bail.</i> 413 00:39:07,262 --> 00:39:09,638 It's gonna be a little time before anything happens, 414 00:39:09,639 --> 00:39:15,352 so he's just sitting there waiting for the court process. 415 00:39:19,607 --> 00:39:24,319 It was what we thought, a blessing 416 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:30,450 because he was going to jail and she was safe. 417 00:39:30,451 --> 00:39:32,287 She and Anslee were safe. 418 00:39:37,959 --> 00:39:40,252 <i> As Brian was awaiting trial,</i> 419 00:39:40,253 --> 00:39:43,213 <i>there is a lot going on behind the scenes.</i> 420 00:39:43,214 --> 00:39:46,216 <i>The investigators are working.</i> 421 00:39:46,217 --> 00:39:47,885 <i>I'm talking to my sources.</i> 422 00:39:47,886 --> 00:39:50,887 <i>I'm knowing that they are talking to Brian.</i> 423 00:39:50,888 --> 00:39:52,347 <i>I'm hearing intel that, you know,</i> 424 00:39:52,348 --> 00:39:55,017 <i>they're trying to figure out what he knows.</i> 425 00:39:55,018 --> 00:39:58,520 I think that there was a real desire and desperation 426 00:39:58,521 --> 00:40:00,481 to try to get something. 427 00:40:04,235 --> 00:40:06,862 <i>Within a few weeks of him being arrested</i> 428 00:40:06,863 --> 00:40:12,159 in the summer of 2016, I had mentioned to Denise 429 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:13,660 <i>that I was going to go out</i> 430 00:40:13,661 --> 00:40:17,331 <i>and talk to Brian's father, Marcus,</i> 431 00:40:17,332 --> 00:40:22,879 about how to support Stafford now that Brian's in jail. 432 00:40:25,089 --> 00:40:29,968 <i>And she knew I was going to go out and talk to him.</i> 433 00:40:29,969 --> 00:40:34,598 So on the way out there that evening, 434 00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:39,895 she calls me and she says, "Kathy, are you still going out 435 00:40:39,896 --> 00:40:41,438 to talk to Marcus tonight?" 436 00:40:41,439 --> 00:40:44,232 And I said, "Yeah, I'm on my way there now." 437 00:40:44,233 --> 00:40:49,404 And she says, "Well, I need you 438 00:40:49,405 --> 00:40:52,366 "to tell him to get a message to Brian for me. 439 00:40:52,367 --> 00:40:56,161 <i>It started out on the baseball field."</i> 440 00:40:56,162 --> 00:40:59,581 And she said, "I need you to tell him 441 00:40:59,582 --> 00:41:02,125 to tell Brian that I'm not talking." 442 00:41:07,548 --> 00:41:10,509 There's only one reason you need 443 00:41:10,510 --> 00:41:14,514 to get a message to someone in jail that you're not talking. 444 00:41:16,641 --> 00:41:20,687 And that is, I'm keeping our secret. 445 00:41:22,146 --> 00:41:27,734 If I had not spent that time, those years, 446 00:41:27,735 --> 00:41:32,614 trying to ease back into her trust, 447 00:41:32,615 --> 00:41:34,784 she wouldn't have called me. 448 00:41:38,955 --> 00:41:41,415 It had happened. 448 00:41:42,305 --> 00:42:42,464