"Capturing Their Killer: The Girls on the High Bridge" Episode #1.3

1 00:00:09,551 --> 00:00:11,762 The date has now been set for the murder trial 2 00:00:11,845 --> 00:00:14,181 of Richard Allen, the man accused of killing 3 00:00:14,264 --> 00:00:16,976 two Delphi teens back in 2017. 4 00:00:17,059 --> 00:00:21,772 50-year-old Allen, a married father, charged last October. 5 00:00:21,855 --> 00:00:23,607 He has pleaded not guilty. 6 00:00:23,690 --> 00:00:25,234 It's now been nearly seven years 7 00:00:25,317 --> 00:00:27,903 since Abby Williams and Libby German were killed. 8 00:00:27,986 --> 00:00:30,698 It's been an emotional roller coaster. 9 00:00:30,781 --> 00:00:34,201 Not having details, I feel like my mind kind of filled in. 10 00:00:34,284 --> 00:00:36,537 I just felt like everything went really fast 11 00:00:36,620 --> 00:00:38,706 and really slow all at the same time. 12 00:00:38,789 --> 00:00:40,166 All these years of building up 13 00:00:40,249 --> 00:00:41,917 and waiting and anticipation. 14 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,502 You just don't even know what to do. 15 00:00:43,585 --> 00:00:44,753 Days ran into each other. 16 00:00:44,836 --> 00:00:46,714 I struggled really badly 17 00:00:46,797 --> 00:00:47,756 with my mental health. 18 00:00:50,342 --> 00:00:51,510 You're nobody in prison. 19 00:00:51,593 --> 00:00:52,845 It was horrible. 20 00:00:52,928 --> 00:00:54,221 We were helpless. 21 00:00:54,304 --> 00:00:56,015 There was nothing we could do 22 00:00:56,098 --> 00:00:57,474 other than take his phone calls. 23 00:01:03,188 --> 00:01:07,234 My belief is Richard Allen is innocent. 24 00:01:07,317 --> 00:01:09,278 What happened to Richard Allen 25 00:01:09,361 --> 00:01:13,824 should make every single person uneasy and angry. 26 00:01:13,907 --> 00:01:15,993 Half the town does want it to be over. 27 00:01:16,076 --> 00:01:17,620 The other half, we don't feel that 28 00:01:17,703 --> 00:01:19,914 they've done right by Richard Allen. 29 00:01:19,997 --> 00:01:21,582 My name is Nicholas McLeland. 30 00:01:21,665 --> 00:01:23,334 I'm the Carroll County prosecutor. 31 00:01:23,417 --> 00:01:25,377 This investigation is still very ongoing. 32 00:01:25,460 --> 00:01:27,046 We are not going to talk about the evidence 33 00:01:27,129 --> 00:01:28,047 that we have in this case. 34 00:01:28,130 --> 00:01:31,467 I would be lying if I didn't admit 35 00:01:31,550 --> 00:01:33,928 we were a little bit concerned, 36 00:01:34,011 --> 00:01:36,430 because the prosecutor, Nick, is young. 37 00:01:36,513 --> 00:01:38,015 I told Nick, I said, 38 00:01:38,098 --> 00:01:39,850 "You screw up, I will call you out." 39 00:01:39,933 --> 00:01:42,269 We will have our opportunity and day in court when 40 00:01:42,352 --> 00:01:44,521 we can present the evidence that we have against him. 41 00:01:44,604 --> 00:01:47,149 But until that day, he is presumed innocent. 42 00:01:47,232 --> 00:01:50,444 I think Delphi has changed from this crime. 43 00:01:52,029 --> 00:01:55,032 The evil has not been expunged from Delphi yet. 44 00:01:55,115 --> 00:01:57,826 We're not even close. 45 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:05,074 Support us and become VIP member to remove all ads from www.OpenSubtitles.org 46 00:02:07,544 --> 00:02:11,465 This case received so much worldwide attention. 47 00:02:11,548 --> 00:02:13,634 This is a case of a lifetime. 48 00:02:13,717 --> 00:02:14,927 But I don't say that with glee. 49 00:02:15,010 --> 00:02:16,220 It's a fact. 50 00:02:16,303 --> 00:02:19,473 People are interested in justice for those girls. 51 00:02:19,556 --> 00:02:20,474 There's a lot of pressure. 52 00:02:20,557 --> 00:02:22,643 The stakes were so high. 53 00:02:22,726 --> 00:02:24,561 A man's life is on the line here. 54 00:02:24,644 --> 00:02:26,105 It's difficult to prepare 55 00:02:26,188 --> 00:02:27,940 for a trial of this magnitude. 56 00:02:28,023 --> 00:02:29,608 It's like running a marathon. 57 00:02:29,691 --> 00:02:30,901 Every mile hurts. 58 00:02:30,984 --> 00:02:34,237 The last few miles hurt worse than the first. 59 00:02:38,784 --> 00:02:40,202 Brad and I were going through 60 00:02:40,285 --> 00:02:41,787 the mounds and mounds of evidence 61 00:02:41,870 --> 00:02:43,664 to show that Richard Allen is innocent. 62 00:02:43,747 --> 00:02:45,040 All right. 63 00:02:45,123 --> 00:02:47,501 It was a Saturday morning, and my mind exploded. 64 00:02:49,044 --> 00:02:50,671 It's 10:00 in the morning. 65 00:02:50,754 --> 00:02:52,464 I've been up a while. 66 00:02:52,547 --> 00:02:54,174 Had a breakthrough late last night. 67 00:02:56,343 --> 00:02:58,387 I stumbled upon a 12-page report. 68 00:02:58,470 --> 00:03:01,265 There's evidence here that this highly unusual 69 00:03:01,348 --> 00:03:06,645 Norse pagan religion might be connected to the crime scene. 70 00:03:06,728 --> 00:03:08,981 I'm reading one thing, and I'm like, holy crap. 71 00:03:09,064 --> 00:03:11,149 And then the second one, I'm like, oh, my God. 72 00:03:12,442 --> 00:03:15,070 Law enforcement saw that there were hallmarks 73 00:03:15,153 --> 00:03:19,282 at the crime scene that suggested ritualistic activity. 74 00:03:20,367 --> 00:03:24,705 It made you think that a person, or persons, 75 00:03:24,788 --> 00:03:28,708 did place things on the girls for a particular reason. 76 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:31,837 My name is Dawn Perlmutter, 77 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:35,174 and I'm a ritualistic crime expert. 78 00:03:35,257 --> 00:03:39,178 I've worked on hundreds of cases of ritualistic crimes 79 00:03:39,261 --> 00:03:43,640 with the FBI, the DEA, Homeland Security. 80 00:03:43,723 --> 00:03:50,022 I get called in when there's very unusual types of evidence. 81 00:03:50,105 --> 00:03:54,068 The defense wanted my opinion on whether 82 00:03:54,151 --> 00:03:56,612 this crime scene was ritualistic 83 00:03:56,695 --> 00:03:59,573 and what I thought was going on. 84 00:04:01,867 --> 00:04:04,703 When I first looked at the crime scene photos, 85 00:04:04,786 --> 00:04:08,290 what stood out to me were the body positionings, 86 00:04:08,373 --> 00:04:13,128 the arrangement of the branches on their bodies, 87 00:04:13,211 --> 00:04:17,341 and what appears to have been a symbol on the tree 88 00:04:17,424 --> 00:04:20,469 was done in the victim's blood. 89 00:04:20,552 --> 00:04:22,971 I can tell you from experience 90 00:04:23,054 --> 00:04:25,766 that these are common indicators 91 00:04:25,849 --> 00:04:27,559 of ritualistic crime. 92 00:04:29,603 --> 00:04:34,274 Once you determine that it may be a ritualistic crime scene, 93 00:04:34,357 --> 00:04:39,029 then the next step is determining which group 94 00:04:39,112 --> 00:04:41,156 it may be affiliated with. 95 00:04:41,239 --> 00:04:43,701 Early on in the case, law enforcement started 96 00:04:43,784 --> 00:04:47,454 looking at a group of people in the Delphi area 97 00:04:47,537 --> 00:04:49,998 called Odinists. 98 00:04:50,081 --> 00:04:51,834 Odinism is a contemporary religion 99 00:04:51,917 --> 00:04:56,422 that takes its inspiration in the pre-Christian religions 100 00:04:56,505 --> 00:05:00,717 of Northern Europe, so Germanic and Norse religions. 101 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,387 These are people who had worshipped 102 00:05:03,470 --> 00:05:06,807 the gods Odin and Thor. 103 00:05:06,890 --> 00:05:10,144 I think the branches that were covering the bodies 104 00:05:10,227 --> 00:05:12,604 were placed in a very specific way, 105 00:05:12,687 --> 00:05:13,939 and in my opinion, 106 00:05:14,022 --> 00:05:16,525 they look like runic symbols. 107 00:05:16,608 --> 00:05:21,447 Runes are the ancient alphabet of Norse people, 108 00:05:21,530 --> 00:05:24,199 and they are very much incorporated 109 00:05:24,282 --> 00:05:26,660 into contemporary heathenry. 110 00:05:29,037 --> 00:05:32,458 I've had several cases with runes 111 00:05:32,541 --> 00:05:34,543 in ritualistic crime scenes. 112 00:05:34,626 --> 00:05:37,337 They're usually intentional marks 113 00:05:37,420 --> 00:05:40,883 that indicate that, in the offender's mind, 114 00:05:40,966 --> 00:05:44,553 he is doing something that has meaning. 115 00:05:48,265 --> 00:05:50,601 Law enforcement investigated the possibility 116 00:05:50,684 --> 00:05:52,853 that Odinists were involved. 117 00:05:52,936 --> 00:05:55,939 I learned that there are people from our area 118 00:05:56,022 --> 00:05:59,943 that are involved in this Norse pagan Odinist religion 119 00:06:00,026 --> 00:06:02,237 that I never knew about. 120 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,448 This Odinist movement in the United States 121 00:06:04,531 --> 00:06:06,950 is often made up of young white men 122 00:06:07,033 --> 00:06:09,453 from working class backgrounds. 123 00:06:09,536 --> 00:06:10,871 These groups began to proliferate 124 00:06:10,954 --> 00:06:14,165 in a sort of industrial decline of the Midwest. 125 00:06:15,834 --> 00:06:19,379 Odin is the god of fury and ecstasy and power, 126 00:06:19,462 --> 00:06:23,550 but they are refiguring the figure of Odin 127 00:06:23,633 --> 00:06:27,596 as representing this sort of 128 00:06:27,679 --> 00:06:30,557 class disappointment and class rage. 129 00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:38,232 There were several people living in the area 130 00:06:38,315 --> 00:06:41,568 that were allegedly practicing Odinism. 131 00:06:41,651 --> 00:06:43,654 In fact, one of them was already 132 00:06:43,737 --> 00:06:45,155 on law enforcement's radar... 133 00:06:45,238 --> 00:06:48,825 a local man named Brad Holder. 134 00:06:48,908 --> 00:06:52,746 Abby was friends with his son. 135 00:06:52,829 --> 00:06:55,249 Brad Holder was posting things on his social media 136 00:06:55,332 --> 00:06:57,793 that caused some concern. 137 00:06:57,876 --> 00:06:59,836 Soon after the murders, Brad Holder posted 138 00:06:59,919 --> 00:07:02,005 something where it said something along the lines of, 139 00:07:02,088 --> 00:07:04,049 "Friends help friends move bodies." 140 00:07:08,553 --> 00:07:11,681 Also, Holder's Facebook page showed runes. 141 00:07:13,558 --> 00:07:18,021 He posted these images of Odinist rituals, 142 00:07:18,104 --> 00:07:19,856 Odinist altars. 143 00:07:19,939 --> 00:07:23,944 He would make runic symbols out of branches. 144 00:07:24,027 --> 00:07:26,989 And these sticks that were on Abby 145 00:07:27,072 --> 00:07:29,908 looked like a marking on a social media post 146 00:07:29,991 --> 00:07:32,952 where he had the marking on his hand. 147 00:07:35,455 --> 00:07:38,292 Brad Holder had also posted a picture 148 00:07:38,375 --> 00:07:41,503 of two girls that were very similar in nature 149 00:07:41,586 --> 00:07:44,089 to the way we found Abby and Libby. 150 00:07:45,256 --> 00:07:46,592 And he would sometimes 151 00:07:46,675 --> 00:07:49,386 do rituals with another local, Patrick Westfall. 152 00:07:51,137 --> 00:07:53,932 My name is Patrick Westfall. 153 00:07:54,015 --> 00:07:56,393 Brad Holder was in the group that I was in 154 00:07:56,476 --> 00:07:58,687 out of Afghanistan. 155 00:07:58,770 --> 00:08:00,314 We got to know each other quite well 156 00:08:00,397 --> 00:08:02,482 over, you know, our time in the combat zone. 157 00:08:03,942 --> 00:08:07,446 Patrick Westfall became a person of interest because of 158 00:08:07,529 --> 00:08:11,158 his relationship with Brad Holder. 159 00:08:11,241 --> 00:08:16,872 Part of what I reviewed was a video of a pagan group 160 00:08:16,955 --> 00:08:19,416 doing a ritual in the woods. 161 00:08:19,499 --> 00:08:21,335 Brad Holder is on camera 162 00:08:21,418 --> 00:08:23,086 showing that he's the one videotaping. 163 00:08:23,169 --> 00:08:25,380 That was just a standard ensemble 164 00:08:25,463 --> 00:08:27,132 where people come together. 165 00:08:27,215 --> 00:08:29,384 You have your meat or different other things 166 00:08:29,467 --> 00:08:31,553 that you can have as an offering. 167 00:08:31,636 --> 00:08:34,097 'Cause we're nature based... we love nature. 168 00:08:34,180 --> 00:08:36,600 Trees, you know, have special meaning to us. 169 00:08:36,683 --> 00:08:40,228 If you remember, Libby is located 170 00:08:40,311 --> 00:08:43,732 and moved next to this big tree. 171 00:08:43,815 --> 00:08:47,778 And I found it interesting that they were all bringing 172 00:08:47,861 --> 00:08:49,905 their different offerings to the tree. 173 00:08:49,988 --> 00:08:51,990 There's nothing that's part of it that has 174 00:08:52,073 --> 00:08:53,825 anything to do with violence 175 00:08:53,908 --> 00:08:56,662 and human sacrifices and killing. 176 00:08:56,745 --> 00:08:59,498 And, you know, there's no initiation ritual 177 00:08:59,581 --> 00:09:01,792 where you have to go out and stomp somebody out 178 00:09:01,875 --> 00:09:03,168 to be a practitioner. 179 00:09:06,463 --> 00:09:07,881 Law enforcement spent 180 00:09:07,964 --> 00:09:10,842 dozens of hours investigating these people, 181 00:09:10,925 --> 00:09:12,636 maybe hundreds of hours. 182 00:09:12,719 --> 00:09:14,513 But then there was kind of a division 183 00:09:14,596 --> 00:09:16,932 between the members that were investigating this, 184 00:09:17,015 --> 00:09:19,768 whether this was a satanic type killing 185 00:09:19,851 --> 00:09:23,647 or if it was just a murder that looked that way. 186 00:09:23,730 --> 00:09:26,441 Brad Holder had a really good alibi. 187 00:09:26,524 --> 00:09:29,569 Police had time cards and also people placing him 188 00:09:29,652 --> 00:09:31,279 at work at the time of the murders. 189 00:09:31,362 --> 00:09:32,906 I think it's a misconception 190 00:09:32,989 --> 00:09:35,492 that we did not thoroughly investigate 191 00:09:35,575 --> 00:09:37,160 the Odinism connection. 192 00:09:37,243 --> 00:09:39,287 We did. We just were never able 193 00:09:39,370 --> 00:09:41,456 to establish any probable cause. 194 00:09:41,539 --> 00:09:43,959 No one could ever prove Brad Holder 195 00:09:44,042 --> 00:09:46,545 and Patrick Westfall were involved. 196 00:09:46,628 --> 00:09:48,171 We couldn't even put them in Delphi. 197 00:09:59,766 --> 00:10:03,353 I think many in the investigation 198 00:10:03,436 --> 00:10:05,397 believed that this kind of stuff 199 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,524 only happens in the movies. 200 00:10:07,607 --> 00:10:10,444 I can tell you from other cases I've worked on, 201 00:10:10,527 --> 00:10:13,905 officers aren't trained in ritualistic crimes. 202 00:10:13,988 --> 00:10:18,326 There is absolutely nothing in their training 203 00:10:18,409 --> 00:10:21,412 that prepares them for this type of crime scene. 204 00:10:22,956 --> 00:10:25,459 It was really hard for me to understand 205 00:10:25,542 --> 00:10:29,379 why they gave up on this angle so quickly. 206 00:10:29,462 --> 00:10:32,716 It appears to me that there was more evidence 207 00:10:32,799 --> 00:10:35,594 on third party suspects than on Richard Allen. 208 00:10:37,929 --> 00:10:39,431 Here we go. 209 00:10:41,474 --> 00:10:44,144 After that, I was all about doing nothing but 210 00:10:44,227 --> 00:10:47,022 looking for Odinism and that angle. 211 00:10:47,105 --> 00:10:48,398 From a professional standpoint, 212 00:10:48,481 --> 00:10:50,859 we were preparing to go to battle. 213 00:11:02,453 --> 00:11:05,207 We realized that none of this information 214 00:11:05,290 --> 00:11:07,709 regarding the Odinists from the police investigation 215 00:11:07,792 --> 00:11:09,544 was offered up to the court. 216 00:11:09,627 --> 00:11:11,671 And so we started creating a memo 217 00:11:11,754 --> 00:11:15,258 to get the judge to see that Odinists may have been 218 00:11:15,341 --> 00:11:19,095 involved in this crime and to allow us 219 00:11:19,178 --> 00:11:20,847 to present that idea to a jury. 220 00:11:20,930 --> 00:11:23,975 So we did a ton of our own investigative work. 221 00:11:24,058 --> 00:11:28,146 For starters, you better go to the scene of the crime. 222 00:11:28,229 --> 00:11:31,650 We've now, using the GPS, gotten to this. 223 00:11:31,733 --> 00:11:33,109 She would have been here then. 224 00:11:33,192 --> 00:11:35,862 Libby was placed right here 225 00:11:35,945 --> 00:11:38,949 with her arm up against the trunk 226 00:11:39,032 --> 00:11:41,701 and her head turned to the left 227 00:11:41,784 --> 00:11:43,912 and her feet coming out this direction. 228 00:11:43,995 --> 00:11:46,957 And Abby would have been right here 229 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,168 at about a 30-degree angle to what Libby was. 230 00:11:51,502 --> 00:11:55,006 I spent 12-, 15-, 18-hour days, 231 00:11:55,089 --> 00:11:58,510 seven days a week working on the case. 232 00:11:58,593 --> 00:12:00,137 I was sleeping on my couch. 233 00:12:00,220 --> 00:12:02,097 And there were... you know, my clo... 234 00:12:02,180 --> 00:12:03,640 if you, like, looked at this office, 235 00:12:03,723 --> 00:12:05,559 it was a complete wreck most of the time. 236 00:12:05,642 --> 00:12:07,227 I hope my wife remembers me. 237 00:12:07,310 --> 00:12:09,771 I've gained a little weight. 238 00:12:09,854 --> 00:12:12,482 We mined all this information regarding the Odinists 239 00:12:12,565 --> 00:12:14,609 from the police investigation, 240 00:12:14,692 --> 00:12:17,696 some of it from our own follow-up investigation, 241 00:12:17,779 --> 00:12:19,531 to prove to the court 242 00:12:19,614 --> 00:12:22,868 that law enforcement misled the judge. 243 00:12:22,951 --> 00:12:24,327 So it's almost like saying, 244 00:12:24,410 --> 00:12:26,580 "Judge, here's the rest of the story. 245 00:12:26,663 --> 00:12:28,206 Here's what they didn't tell you." 246 00:12:34,379 --> 00:12:36,673 Finally, we finished getting 247 00:12:36,756 --> 00:12:40,010 that 136-page memo together. 248 00:12:40,093 --> 00:12:43,179 Sierra and Sarah have been 249 00:12:43,262 --> 00:12:46,683 unbelievably working on this thing. 250 00:12:46,766 --> 00:12:48,518 September 18, 2023. 251 00:12:48,601 --> 00:12:50,896 Now's the time to hit the Send button. 252 00:12:50,979 --> 00:12:53,273 I'm just checking one last thing. 253 00:12:53,356 --> 00:12:54,900 OK, Andy. 254 00:12:54,983 --> 00:12:55,901 What time is it? 255 00:12:55,984 --> 00:12:57,277 It's 2:06. 256 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:58,695 Here. Hit the button. 257 00:12:58,778 --> 00:12:59,988 You do it. 258 00:13:02,323 --> 00:13:07,287 All right, well, this is for Richard Allen. 259 00:13:08,871 --> 00:13:10,957 All right. 260 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,084 Hope that gets him out. 261 00:13:16,754 --> 00:13:18,798 This morning, a new twist 262 00:13:18,881 --> 00:13:20,675 in the Delphi double murders. 263 00:13:20,758 --> 00:13:25,722 Allen's attorneys filing a 136-page motion on Monday, 264 00:13:25,805 --> 00:13:28,141 where they claim the girls were ritualistically 265 00:13:28,224 --> 00:13:31,645 sacrificed by members of a pagan Norse religion 266 00:13:31,728 --> 00:13:33,813 called Odinism. 267 00:13:33,896 --> 00:13:36,900 It read like a gripping novel 268 00:13:36,983 --> 00:13:39,527 of this Odinism conspiracy 269 00:13:39,610 --> 00:13:41,613 that sacrificed these two young girls. 270 00:13:47,577 --> 00:13:50,788 It set the whole state ablaze with people talking. 271 00:13:51,914 --> 00:13:53,375 It was quite a shock 272 00:13:53,458 --> 00:13:55,251 that somebody would make that allegation. 273 00:13:57,378 --> 00:14:00,465 The media, the YouTubers, social media, 274 00:14:00,548 --> 00:14:05,053 podcasts, they grabbed hold of this idea and they ran with it. 275 00:14:05,136 --> 00:14:07,847 Today, McLeland calling the entire memo 276 00:14:07,930 --> 00:14:10,558 "colorful, dramatic, and highly unprofessional." 277 00:14:10,641 --> 00:14:11,893 So everybody online was like, 278 00:14:11,976 --> 00:14:15,772 were these girls murdered as a sacrifice? 279 00:14:18,107 --> 00:14:20,276 And it was just, like, rampant speculation. 280 00:14:20,359 --> 00:14:23,071 Is there some coverup going on here or something happening? 281 00:14:23,154 --> 00:14:26,282 If true, the information in these documents 282 00:14:26,365 --> 00:14:27,367 point the finger in 283 00:14:27,450 --> 00:14:29,577 a completely different direction. 284 00:14:29,660 --> 00:14:32,038 But I think they're actually on to something here. 285 00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:37,585 Once that memorandum came out, 286 00:14:37,668 --> 00:14:39,379 and I had people calling me left and right asking 287 00:14:39,462 --> 00:14:42,382 why I'm all over YouTube channels. 288 00:14:42,465 --> 00:14:43,550 Patrick Westfall. 289 00:14:43,633 --> 00:14:44,718 -Patrick Westfall. -Patrick Westfall. 290 00:14:44,801 --> 00:14:46,845 It absolutely crushed me. 291 00:14:46,928 --> 00:14:49,097 That's not small change stuff. 292 00:14:49,180 --> 00:14:52,392 This is a double homicide. 293 00:14:52,475 --> 00:14:55,520 It's worldwide watched, followed event, 294 00:14:55,603 --> 00:14:59,566 and my name is slapped all over this memorandum. 295 00:15:02,401 --> 00:15:04,571 Brad Holder was posting on Facebook 296 00:15:04,654 --> 00:15:07,615 saying people are accusing him of being Bridge Guy. 297 00:15:07,698 --> 00:15:10,535 He posted a video on TikTok saying 298 00:15:10,618 --> 00:15:12,037 that he's not Bridge Guy. 299 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:13,830 You don't like my hat? 300 00:15:13,913 --> 00:15:15,999 You... you think I'm the murderer 'cause... 301 00:15:16,082 --> 00:15:17,917 because I'm wearing his hat, right? 302 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,171 It seemed like he was sick of these online accusations. 303 00:15:21,254 --> 00:15:23,965 No matter how big of a dickhead I am, 304 00:15:24,048 --> 00:15:26,426 I didn't kill those girls. 305 00:15:26,509 --> 00:15:28,303 I'm tired of hearing Odinism. 306 00:15:28,386 --> 00:15:31,514 I never have had anything to do with it. 307 00:15:31,597 --> 00:15:33,475 I get that that's an attorney's job 308 00:15:33,558 --> 00:15:35,602 is to create reasonable doubt. 309 00:15:35,685 --> 00:15:38,813 But man, they really ruined a lot of things for me 310 00:15:38,896 --> 00:15:41,232 by doing it that way. 311 00:15:41,315 --> 00:15:43,902 The memo was well within the boundaries of what 312 00:15:43,985 --> 00:15:47,363 a competent lawyer would do to defend their client, 313 00:15:47,446 --> 00:15:50,533 but the reactions were pretty overwhelming. 314 00:15:50,616 --> 00:15:53,078 You have to go where the investigation leads you. 315 00:15:53,161 --> 00:15:55,163 You have to do your job. 316 00:15:55,246 --> 00:15:56,748 And then just deal with the consequences 317 00:15:56,831 --> 00:15:58,416 of whatever comes from that. 318 00:16:16,726 --> 00:16:19,020 As the trial in this case got closer, 319 00:16:19,103 --> 00:16:22,148 we were awaiting the judge's pre-trial rulings 320 00:16:22,231 --> 00:16:26,111 on our request to introduce third party culpability. 321 00:16:26,194 --> 00:16:28,488 Until that happens, we just have to keep 322 00:16:28,571 --> 00:16:30,532 working on the case night and day and morning 323 00:16:30,615 --> 00:16:32,075 and noon and night. 324 00:16:32,158 --> 00:16:34,202 Law enforcement, they have an infinite amount 325 00:16:34,285 --> 00:16:36,579 of resources to investigate these crimes 326 00:16:36,662 --> 00:16:38,498 and to prop them up in a courtroom. 327 00:16:38,581 --> 00:16:41,084 The government has a huge advantage in that regard. 328 00:16:41,167 --> 00:16:42,544 We knew that prosecutor 329 00:16:42,627 --> 00:16:44,754 was working as hard as us. 330 00:16:44,837 --> 00:16:45,964 There definitely are days 331 00:16:46,047 --> 00:16:47,340 that you get overwhelmed and think, 332 00:16:47,423 --> 00:16:48,550 I have so much to do. 333 00:16:48,633 --> 00:16:50,135 I don't know how I'm going to do all this. 334 00:16:50,218 --> 00:16:52,345 Obviously, a lot of sleepless nights, 335 00:16:52,428 --> 00:16:54,931 a lot of time away from family and friends 336 00:16:55,014 --> 00:16:57,350 to put the work in that's necessary for the case. 337 00:16:57,433 --> 00:16:58,935 It took a toll on Nick. 338 00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:00,019 We watched him. 339 00:17:00,102 --> 00:17:03,148 He gave up a lot for this case. 340 00:17:09,779 --> 00:17:12,031 Judge Gull ruled that the defense would not be 341 00:17:12,114 --> 00:17:15,034 allowed to raise the issue of third party suspects, 342 00:17:15,117 --> 00:17:18,705 basically hampering the defense's allegations 343 00:17:18,788 --> 00:17:22,584 of Odinism and human sacrifice. 344 00:17:22,667 --> 00:17:26,045 It was a one-, maybe a two-page order saying that 345 00:17:26,128 --> 00:17:29,924 we could not present any of that evidence at trial. 346 00:17:30,007 --> 00:17:31,801 She just flat out denied it, 347 00:17:31,884 --> 00:17:34,554 essentially saying to Rick Allen that, 348 00:17:34,637 --> 00:17:36,264 you know, if you think you're going to get away with 349 00:17:36,347 --> 00:17:38,433 pointing fingers at these other people, you know, 350 00:17:38,516 --> 00:17:39,642 you got another thing coming. 351 00:17:43,145 --> 00:17:45,899 The bottom line is there was no connection, 352 00:17:45,982 --> 00:17:50,320 no direct criminal nexus in that group of people 353 00:17:50,403 --> 00:17:51,821 that, in my opinion, 354 00:17:51,904 --> 00:17:54,365 the defense came out and falsely accused. 355 00:17:55,658 --> 00:17:56,910 The judge's ruling was 356 00:17:56,993 --> 00:17:59,162 a devastating blow to the defense. 357 00:18:00,371 --> 00:18:01,789 My professional opinion is 358 00:18:01,872 --> 00:18:03,458 that to make this information public, 359 00:18:03,541 --> 00:18:05,210 it was displeasing to the court. 360 00:18:05,293 --> 00:18:07,086 And in hindsight, you know, it probably wasn't 361 00:18:07,169 --> 00:18:10,339 the best way to garner judicial support. 362 00:18:12,883 --> 00:18:15,845 Whether or not the Odinists are responsible 363 00:18:15,928 --> 00:18:17,639 for the death of these girls, 364 00:18:17,722 --> 00:18:19,724 I don't really have a personal opinion about that. 365 00:18:19,807 --> 00:18:21,935 But what I do know for certain is, 366 00:18:22,018 --> 00:18:24,354 this ruling stripped Rick Allen of the ability 367 00:18:24,437 --> 00:18:27,065 to defend himself. 368 00:18:27,148 --> 00:18:29,108 Did it change our strategy? 369 00:18:29,191 --> 00:18:33,154 I mean, the strategy went from third party suspect 370 00:18:33,237 --> 00:18:34,781 to just plain old reasonable doubt. 371 00:18:34,864 --> 00:18:36,991 There's reasonable doubt here. 372 00:18:37,074 --> 00:18:39,702 We really believed that we were going to win. 373 00:18:39,785 --> 00:18:41,537 We were going to be able to get Richard out of this 374 00:18:41,620 --> 00:18:42,830 in spite of that ruling. 375 00:18:46,709 --> 00:18:50,046 Well before the trial, people took sides. 376 00:18:50,129 --> 00:18:52,298 There were people who were pro Richard Allen 377 00:18:52,381 --> 00:18:53,800 or against Richard Allen. 378 00:18:53,883 --> 00:18:56,636 Right here, a protest is gearing up. 379 00:18:56,719 --> 00:18:58,513 "We love you, Rick Allen." 380 00:18:58,596 --> 00:19:00,431 We are pro prosecution here. 381 00:19:00,514 --> 00:19:01,599 There's no evidence connecting 382 00:19:01,682 --> 00:19:02,600 Richard to the crime. 383 00:19:02,683 --> 00:19:04,143 I cannot declare 384 00:19:04,226 --> 00:19:06,563 that Richard Allen is totally innocent. 385 00:19:06,646 --> 00:19:09,107 I really had a fear that we're not going to be able 386 00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:11,442 to get a jury pool that hasn't formed an opinion 387 00:19:11,525 --> 00:19:12,986 so that we could have a fair trial, 388 00:19:13,069 --> 00:19:14,862 not only for the state, but for Richard Allen. 389 00:19:20,910 --> 00:19:22,412 The trial for the man accused of killing 390 00:19:22,495 --> 00:19:25,081 Abby Williams and Libby German begins tomorrow. 391 00:19:26,666 --> 00:19:30,962 There was an influx of media here in Delphi. 392 00:19:31,045 --> 00:19:33,172 A lot of people certainly got tired 393 00:19:33,255 --> 00:19:35,675 of microphones in the face. 394 00:19:35,758 --> 00:19:38,469 The judge said she's not televising the trial. 395 00:19:42,431 --> 00:19:44,976 So people showed up hoping to hear 396 00:19:45,059 --> 00:19:46,811 the evidence against Richard Allen. 397 00:19:46,894 --> 00:19:48,479 I'm from Atlanta, Georgia. 398 00:19:48,562 --> 00:19:50,690 I was really concerned about the process 399 00:19:50,773 --> 00:19:52,567 and whether or not a fair trial was going to happen. 400 00:19:52,650 --> 00:19:55,278 I have spent every day for almost four years 401 00:19:55,361 --> 00:19:56,696 thinking about this case. 402 00:19:56,779 --> 00:19:59,949 I need to know the evidence for myself. 403 00:20:00,032 --> 00:20:03,286 It was almost like a spectacle. 404 00:20:03,369 --> 00:20:06,164 A woman was saying she flew in from Seattle 405 00:20:06,247 --> 00:20:07,874 and brought her kids with her 406 00:20:07,957 --> 00:20:09,876 because they wanted to walk the trail 407 00:20:09,959 --> 00:20:12,795 and... like it was a tourist attraction. 408 00:20:12,878 --> 00:20:14,464 So the branch went from here to here. 409 00:20:14,547 --> 00:20:16,716 It was this end where they were abducted. 410 00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:18,926 Only 24 people from the public 411 00:20:19,009 --> 00:20:21,929 were allowed in each day, so people started lining up 412 00:20:22,012 --> 00:20:24,724 the night before, hoping to be one of the first 413 00:20:24,807 --> 00:20:26,851 24 people to get in. 414 00:20:26,934 --> 00:20:29,812 People were paying people to sit in line for them. 415 00:20:31,564 --> 00:20:35,651 At what point does people's interest in justice 416 00:20:35,734 --> 00:20:40,031 become just a bloodlust for the gruesome details? 417 00:20:40,114 --> 00:20:42,659 It's free entertainment to them. 418 00:20:42,742 --> 00:20:47,872 People tend to forget that the subjects of the story 419 00:20:47,955 --> 00:20:50,875 are real people. 420 00:20:50,958 --> 00:20:52,919 It's been eight years of building up 421 00:20:53,002 --> 00:20:55,046 and waiting and anticipation. 422 00:20:55,129 --> 00:20:58,007 I told Libby I would be there for every second. 423 00:20:58,090 --> 00:21:00,551 I was there for the entire trial, every day. 424 00:21:00,634 --> 00:21:02,053 I did that for her. 425 00:21:04,263 --> 00:21:07,266 It was the least I could do. 426 00:21:14,857 --> 00:21:20,154 So as a memorial to Libby, I decided to do this tattoo. 427 00:21:21,614 --> 00:21:25,827 These coordinates here are where she is buried. 428 00:21:25,910 --> 00:21:29,330 I've got a music note here. 429 00:21:29,413 --> 00:21:31,416 She was a painter. 430 00:21:31,499 --> 00:21:34,544 Got more music. 431 00:21:34,627 --> 00:21:39,549 This here was for Mother's Day of 2016. 432 00:21:39,632 --> 00:21:42,719 Libby gave me a pendant that said Mom. 433 00:21:42,802 --> 00:21:45,471 I put all four of my girls' birthstones, 434 00:21:45,554 --> 00:21:47,640 and it says Libby instead of Mom. 435 00:21:57,066 --> 00:21:59,068 It's taken 7 1/2 years 436 00:21:59,151 --> 00:22:00,903 to get to the official day of trial. 437 00:22:00,986 --> 00:22:03,656 People I spoke to say they just want this to be over 438 00:22:03,739 --> 00:22:06,576 so the entire community can heal. 439 00:22:06,659 --> 00:22:09,537 It was definitely somber and kind of weird 440 00:22:09,620 --> 00:22:12,498 that finally the time had arrived for the trial. 441 00:22:12,581 --> 00:22:15,334 Abby and Libby's families, they say they won't rest 442 00:22:15,417 --> 00:22:16,878 until there's a conviction. 443 00:22:20,381 --> 00:22:22,258 We sat through court every day. 444 00:22:22,341 --> 00:22:24,469 We owed that to Abby and Libby. 445 00:22:24,552 --> 00:22:27,096 We owed it to the prosecution team. 446 00:22:27,179 --> 00:22:28,848 You know, we were there to support them. 447 00:22:30,933 --> 00:22:32,101 The strongest arguments 448 00:22:32,184 --> 00:22:34,353 that were presented at trial by the prosecution 449 00:22:34,436 --> 00:22:36,522 I think you can break into a few groups. 450 00:22:38,524 --> 00:22:41,194 The timeline... it was Richard Allen 451 00:22:41,277 --> 00:22:45,031 on the trail that day at the time of the murders. 452 00:22:46,574 --> 00:22:49,076 The bullet... could they link the bullet 453 00:22:49,159 --> 00:22:51,078 they had discovered at the crime scene 454 00:22:51,161 --> 00:22:52,413 to Richard Allen? 455 00:22:52,496 --> 00:22:55,374 And then the confessions where he says that 456 00:22:55,457 --> 00:22:57,293 he did it... can you believe them? 457 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,259 When Richard Allen first spoke to the police 458 00:23:05,342 --> 00:23:08,012 back in 2017, he puts himself squarely 459 00:23:08,095 --> 00:23:10,014 in the middle of the crime scene 460 00:23:10,097 --> 00:23:12,141 at the time the crime was being committed, 461 00:23:12,224 --> 00:23:13,893 which investigators narrowed down 462 00:23:13,976 --> 00:23:18,314 to roughly a 2-hour window between 2:13 and 4:00 PM. 463 00:23:18,397 --> 00:23:20,107 Richard Allen says he was there 464 00:23:20,190 --> 00:23:22,151 1:30 to 3:30. 465 00:23:22,234 --> 00:23:23,277 Five years later, 466 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:25,404 on October 13, 2022, 467 00:23:25,487 --> 00:23:26,989 when he's being interrogated by 468 00:23:27,072 --> 00:23:29,492 Carroll County Chief Investigator Steve Mullen, 469 00:23:29,575 --> 00:23:32,328 Richard Allen gives a different timeline. 470 00:23:38,959 --> 00:23:40,127 At 2:13 when 471 00:23:40,210 --> 00:23:43,005 the famous video is taken, 472 00:23:43,088 --> 00:23:45,091 Richard wasn't there. 473 00:23:45,174 --> 00:23:48,010 He left the trails about 1:30. 474 00:23:48,093 --> 00:23:49,387 And that's, you know... 475 00:23:49,470 --> 00:23:50,680 that's what his... 476 00:23:50,763 --> 00:23:52,431 what he told police. 477 00:23:52,514 --> 00:23:54,016 The defense argued that 478 00:23:54,099 --> 00:23:55,893 this report was unreliable 479 00:23:55,976 --> 00:23:58,771 because the officer didn't record the interview. 480 00:23:58,854 --> 00:24:01,315 He did not have it recorded. 481 00:24:01,398 --> 00:24:02,733 We didn't see his notes. 482 00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:05,778 The prosecution argues 483 00:24:05,861 --> 00:24:07,989 the 1:30 to 3:30 timeline 484 00:24:08,072 --> 00:24:09,949 is correct because police say 485 00:24:10,032 --> 00:24:12,159 they see his car at 1:27. 486 00:24:12,242 --> 00:24:14,328 The Carroll County prosecutor placing a car 487 00:24:14,411 --> 00:24:16,205 that he says matches Richard Allen's 488 00:24:16,288 --> 00:24:17,665 near the Monon High Bridge 489 00:24:17,748 --> 00:24:19,875 between the time frame of 1:30 and 3:30, 490 00:24:19,958 --> 00:24:22,420 which is what he originally said in his police interviews. 491 00:24:22,503 --> 00:24:24,088 I've looked at those videos. 492 00:24:24,171 --> 00:24:26,424 The distance from the camera to the road, 493 00:24:26,507 --> 00:24:28,134 the fact that it's moving, 494 00:24:28,217 --> 00:24:32,555 it's super hard to identify a make or a model. 495 00:24:32,638 --> 00:24:35,016 I just don't think that you can honestly say that 496 00:24:35,099 --> 00:24:36,976 that is Richard Allen's car. 497 00:24:40,729 --> 00:24:43,441 Today, the focus is on an unspent bullet. 498 00:24:43,524 --> 00:24:45,443 The only piece of physical evidence 499 00:24:45,526 --> 00:24:49,155 the state had was this unspent cartridge or bullet. 500 00:24:49,238 --> 00:24:51,907 There was no other forensic evidence 501 00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:53,492 tying him to this crime. 502 00:24:53,575 --> 00:24:57,496 So the jurors were extremely attentive. 503 00:24:57,579 --> 00:24:58,539 They were tuned in. 504 00:24:58,622 --> 00:24:59,540 They were paying attention. 505 00:24:59,623 --> 00:25:02,043 They were, you know, nodding. 506 00:25:02,126 --> 00:25:06,672 The police and prosecutor are saying that 507 00:25:06,755 --> 00:25:09,800 Richard Allen had his gun out, and he pulls it back 508 00:25:09,883 --> 00:25:11,761 as, like, an intimidation method. 509 00:25:11,844 --> 00:25:15,681 So when you do that, sometimes an unspent round will pop out. 510 00:25:27,651 --> 00:25:29,403 She testified for hours 511 00:25:29,486 --> 00:25:31,781 as to how she came to that conclusion. 512 00:25:31,864 --> 00:25:34,992 She said it primarily came from markings left behind 513 00:25:35,075 --> 00:25:37,870 that are unique to Allen's gun. 514 00:25:37,953 --> 00:25:39,205 Whether you want to believe the bullet was 515 00:25:39,288 --> 00:25:40,998 a direct match or a direct tie, 516 00:25:41,081 --> 00:25:43,167 that was heavily debated in court. 517 00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:45,336 But there was forensic evidence 518 00:25:45,419 --> 00:25:47,546 that proved that it did come from his gun. 519 00:25:59,183 --> 00:26:01,936 That discipline is far from an exact science, 520 00:26:02,019 --> 00:26:05,606 and really relying on that uncycled round 521 00:26:05,689 --> 00:26:08,109 to convict this guy would have been reckless. 522 00:26:08,192 --> 00:26:10,945 If that's the best they have to do, they're in trouble. 523 00:26:11,028 --> 00:26:13,781 This magic bullet to me was shaky ground. 524 00:26:24,625 --> 00:26:25,876 It is day 11 525 00:26:25,959 --> 00:26:27,420 of the Delphi double murder trial. 526 00:26:27,503 --> 00:26:30,589 And today, the jury heard from the former lead psychologist 527 00:26:30,672 --> 00:26:32,550 at Westville Correctional Facility. 528 00:26:32,633 --> 00:26:34,552 Dr. Monica Wala testified to hearing 529 00:26:34,635 --> 00:26:36,303 a number of alleged verbal confessions 530 00:26:36,386 --> 00:26:38,431 from Allen, including where he confessed 531 00:26:38,514 --> 00:26:40,057 to killing Abby and Libby, 532 00:26:40,140 --> 00:26:42,601 adding he was sorry for what he did. 533 00:26:42,684 --> 00:26:44,645 Allen shared a timeline with Dr. Wala 534 00:26:44,728 --> 00:26:47,398 of what happened on February 13th of 2017, 535 00:26:47,481 --> 00:26:49,316 the day the girls were last seen alive. 536 00:26:51,485 --> 00:26:55,614 The state heavily relied on this confession at trial. 537 00:26:55,697 --> 00:26:59,118 This is a very convincing confession 538 00:26:59,201 --> 00:27:00,828 because of the detail. 539 00:27:00,911 --> 00:27:03,414 This confession had details that allegedly 540 00:27:03,497 --> 00:27:05,041 only the killer would know. 541 00:27:05,124 --> 00:27:06,876 Richard Allen allegedly said that 542 00:27:06,959 --> 00:27:09,086 he left his mother's house, and on the way home, 543 00:27:09,169 --> 00:27:11,380 he stopped to get a six-pack of beer, 544 00:27:11,463 --> 00:27:12,715 drank three at home, 545 00:27:12,798 --> 00:27:15,092 and then headed out to the trails and bundled up. 546 00:27:17,177 --> 00:27:19,889 While he was on the trail, he saw Abby and Libby 547 00:27:19,972 --> 00:27:21,807 and eventually followed them onto the bridge, 548 00:27:21,890 --> 00:27:23,726 where he encountered them 549 00:27:23,809 --> 00:27:26,395 and then took them down the hill. 550 00:27:26,478 --> 00:27:28,439 And he said in his confession to her, 551 00:27:28,522 --> 00:27:31,150 his intention was sexual in nature 552 00:27:31,233 --> 00:27:32,902 and wanted to rape them. 553 00:27:32,985 --> 00:27:36,530 And he saw a van arriving at the end of this very long 554 00:27:36,613 --> 00:27:39,950 private driveway, which caused him to cross over 555 00:27:40,033 --> 00:27:41,327 to the north side of the creek, 556 00:27:41,410 --> 00:27:43,704 where eventually the girls' bodies were found. 557 00:27:45,706 --> 00:27:47,124 Wala's testimony was questioned 558 00:27:47,207 --> 00:27:48,626 by defense attorney Brad Rozzi. 559 00:27:50,544 --> 00:27:53,255 Dr. Wala reported that Rick said many things to her 560 00:27:53,338 --> 00:27:54,882 that were incriminating. 561 00:27:54,965 --> 00:27:57,051 You know, and I'm not doing the math technically, 562 00:27:57,134 --> 00:27:59,428 but I would say 98% of those things 563 00:27:59,511 --> 00:28:02,056 were generic confessions and at a time 564 00:28:02,139 --> 00:28:03,766 when even she acknowledged that 565 00:28:03,849 --> 00:28:06,143 he was suffering from a state of psychosis. 566 00:28:15,277 --> 00:28:16,570 She admitted on the stand 567 00:28:16,653 --> 00:28:18,906 to using a work computer to search for information 568 00:28:18,989 --> 00:28:20,658 on people involved in the case, 569 00:28:20,741 --> 00:28:23,494 information that the public would not know. 570 00:28:23,577 --> 00:28:25,079 It was revealed that she was interested 571 00:28:25,162 --> 00:28:26,956 in the Delphi case even before 572 00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:28,374 Richard Allen was arrested. 573 00:28:28,457 --> 00:28:31,669 She joined Facebook groups in 2021. 574 00:28:31,752 --> 00:28:34,630 And also, she stopped by the trail 575 00:28:34,713 --> 00:28:37,758 before Rick was arrested to get more intelligence 576 00:28:37,841 --> 00:28:39,801 about where this all happened. 577 00:28:41,803 --> 00:28:43,722 This person had no business, 578 00:28:43,805 --> 00:28:46,851 no business being in Rick Allen's world at all. 579 00:28:46,934 --> 00:28:48,978 The idea that a van was involved 580 00:28:49,061 --> 00:28:53,941 had probably been shared on social media dozens of times 581 00:28:54,024 --> 00:28:55,693 throughout the five-year investigation. 582 00:28:55,776 --> 00:28:58,737 It was not information that was really new. 583 00:28:59,988 --> 00:29:02,116 The state says that Dr. Wala 584 00:29:02,199 --> 00:29:05,327 accurately reported what Mr. Allen said. 585 00:29:05,410 --> 00:29:08,163 The defense says Dr. Wala's reports were tainted 586 00:29:08,246 --> 00:29:10,791 by her outside knowledge of the case, 587 00:29:10,874 --> 00:29:13,460 and also pointed out that about the time 588 00:29:13,543 --> 00:29:15,588 Richard Allen started confessing, 589 00:29:15,671 --> 00:29:18,382 he was losing touch with reality. 590 00:29:22,886 --> 00:29:25,389 We were hoping to get the jury's mind 591 00:29:25,472 --> 00:29:27,558 to at least consider that it's possible 592 00:29:27,641 --> 00:29:30,352 that a man who "confessed" is actually innocent. 593 00:29:30,435 --> 00:29:33,063 The jury is going to have to weigh the confessions 594 00:29:33,146 --> 00:29:35,524 that Richard Allen made while behind bars, 595 00:29:35,607 --> 00:29:38,652 but the defense says those confessions are false. 596 00:29:44,241 --> 00:29:46,410 Right now, closing arguments are underway 597 00:29:46,493 --> 00:29:49,038 in the Delphi double murder trial. 598 00:29:49,121 --> 00:29:50,664 The prosecutor, Nick McLeland, 599 00:29:50,747 --> 00:29:53,542 in his closing argument, made a very important point. 600 00:29:53,625 --> 00:29:55,878 Libby wanted to work in law enforcement. 601 00:29:55,961 --> 00:29:59,048 She wanted to solve crimes. 602 00:29:59,131 --> 00:30:02,885 In a very real way, she did solve this crime. 603 00:30:02,968 --> 00:30:04,595 Because she took that video, 604 00:30:04,678 --> 00:30:08,015 she captured the image of her own murderer. 605 00:30:08,098 --> 00:30:11,810 Had it not been for that, had it not been for the voice, 606 00:30:11,893 --> 00:30:13,812 Richard Allen might never have been caught. 607 00:30:13,895 --> 00:30:15,230 During the prosecution's 608 00:30:15,313 --> 00:30:17,358 closing arguments, they said Bridge Guy 609 00:30:17,441 --> 00:30:18,901 was Richard Allen and walked through 610 00:30:18,984 --> 00:30:22,071 a number of reasons why they believed that. 611 00:30:22,154 --> 00:30:25,115 The state is officially done with their closing arguments. 612 00:30:25,198 --> 00:30:26,533 Next will be the defense. 613 00:30:29,870 --> 00:30:33,499 In this day and age, it's really hard for me 614 00:30:33,582 --> 00:30:35,668 to accept the fact that there is not really 615 00:30:35,751 --> 00:30:38,253 one iota of forensic evidence 616 00:30:38,336 --> 00:30:40,965 that connects Richard Allen to this crime scene 617 00:30:41,048 --> 00:30:42,800 or to the death of these two girls 618 00:30:42,883 --> 00:30:46,220 and how there couldn't be some forensic DNA evidence 619 00:30:46,303 --> 00:30:48,013 associated with Richard Allen, 620 00:30:48,096 --> 00:30:50,307 except for the fact that 621 00:30:50,390 --> 00:30:51,975 Richard Allen didn't commit this crime. 622 00:30:56,146 --> 00:30:58,273 The fate of the man accused of killing 623 00:30:58,356 --> 00:31:01,902 Delphi teens Abby Williams and Libby German in 2017 624 00:31:01,985 --> 00:31:04,321 is now in the hands of the jury. 625 00:31:05,906 --> 00:31:07,616 I felt pretty positive that 626 00:31:07,699 --> 00:31:09,618 they're going to make the right decision, 627 00:31:09,701 --> 00:31:12,538 because reasonable doubt was written all over the place. 628 00:31:15,916 --> 00:31:16,959 I said, you know what? 629 00:31:17,042 --> 00:31:18,168 We can't do anything. 630 00:31:18,251 --> 00:31:19,795 Turn it over to God. 631 00:31:19,878 --> 00:31:22,840 You're at the mercy of 12 people that I don't know, 632 00:31:22,923 --> 00:31:24,675 and they're making the decision on 633 00:31:24,758 --> 00:31:27,552 not only Richard Allen's fate, but ours as well. 634 00:31:28,637 --> 00:31:31,557 Those four days that we were waiting, 635 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,436 the jury was deliberating, were excruciating. 636 00:31:41,066 --> 00:31:44,820 Eight years that I've lost 637 00:31:44,903 --> 00:31:50,242 just waiting for something, anything. 638 00:31:55,580 --> 00:31:57,332 I'll not get that time back. 639 00:31:58,834 --> 00:32:01,628 It still feels much like it did 640 00:32:01,711 --> 00:32:03,005 the first day the girls were gone. 641 00:32:14,474 --> 00:32:17,895 Doing this park in honor of the girls 642 00:32:17,978 --> 00:32:20,105 ensures that they'll never be forgotten. 643 00:32:22,983 --> 00:32:28,697 Libby's cousins and our kids, our family, 644 00:32:28,780 --> 00:32:32,534 the little ones that Abby never got to meet, 645 00:32:32,617 --> 00:32:35,245 they all get to play here. 646 00:32:43,295 --> 00:32:45,214 It doesn't make it hurt any less, 647 00:32:45,297 --> 00:32:48,675 but it sure does feel good to come out here and see it, 648 00:32:48,758 --> 00:32:51,720 and to be here and to give people a place to go. 649 00:32:51,803 --> 00:32:54,473 Just run around and be kids. 650 00:32:54,556 --> 00:32:57,810 Do what the girls did. 651 00:32:57,893 --> 00:32:58,811 Healing? 652 00:32:58,894 --> 00:33:00,229 Not... not yet. 653 00:33:00,312 --> 00:33:06,527 That's... that's a work in progress. 654 00:33:14,993 --> 00:33:17,621 Jurors preparing for their fourth day of deliberations 655 00:33:17,704 --> 00:33:19,832 after working through part of the weekend. 656 00:33:19,915 --> 00:33:22,292 This was the first time in two years 657 00:33:22,375 --> 00:33:24,837 that we all actually had some hope. 658 00:33:26,421 --> 00:33:29,383 On my phone conversations with Ricky, 659 00:33:29,466 --> 00:33:31,218 I heard some joy in his voice. 660 00:33:34,137 --> 00:33:35,889 And I had some, too. 661 00:33:37,182 --> 00:33:40,811 Waiting for the verdict is a lot of anxiety. 662 00:33:40,894 --> 00:33:42,479 You're waiting and you're waiting. 663 00:33:42,562 --> 00:33:44,273 It's always hard waiting for the jury 664 00:33:44,356 --> 00:33:45,524 to come back because you're just wondering, 665 00:33:45,607 --> 00:33:46,567 what are they doing? 666 00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:47,734 What are they thinking? 667 00:34:28,817 --> 00:34:32,321 Nobody made a sound when that jury came in. 668 00:34:32,404 --> 00:34:36,074 We didn't know which way it was going to go. 669 00:34:36,157 --> 00:34:38,577 As the jurors walked out, I looked at their faces. 670 00:34:38,660 --> 00:34:40,120 I didn't see any of the jurors 671 00:34:40,203 --> 00:34:42,331 making eye contact with Richard Allen. 672 00:34:42,414 --> 00:34:44,917 And I remember when the verdict was announced, 673 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,753 somebody off to my left gasped. 674 00:34:53,049 --> 00:34:54,885 Guilty on all counts. 675 00:34:54,968 --> 00:34:57,429 More than 7 1/2 years after the murders 676 00:34:57,512 --> 00:35:00,098 of Delphi teens Abby Williams and Libby German, 677 00:35:00,181 --> 00:35:01,725 a jury today said 678 00:35:01,808 --> 00:35:05,145 Richard Allen is guilty of the crimes. 679 00:35:05,228 --> 00:35:06,271 Guilty! 680 00:35:08,565 --> 00:35:10,817 Yeah, yeah! 681 00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:14,529 Guilty. Guilty! 682 00:35:14,612 --> 00:35:19,826 To hear the guilty verdict was kind of a relief. 683 00:35:19,909 --> 00:35:22,371 -Yes! -Guilty! 684 00:35:22,454 --> 00:35:25,206 I'm grateful that we got justice when we did. 685 00:35:26,833 --> 00:35:29,169 Richard Allen's wife, Kathy, could not even stand 686 00:35:29,252 --> 00:35:30,671 after the verdict was read, 687 00:35:30,754 --> 00:35:33,173 and she actually had to be assisted to her feet. 688 00:35:35,216 --> 00:35:41,556 When I heard those words, guilty, it was shock. 689 00:35:43,224 --> 00:35:45,226 Ricky looked confused. 690 00:35:48,146 --> 00:35:52,609 And I wanted to stand there and scream for him. 691 00:36:41,366 --> 00:36:43,243 The prosecution said, 692 00:36:43,326 --> 00:36:47,623 we know this Bridge Guy took the girls. 693 00:36:47,706 --> 00:36:51,627 And they proved Richard Allen was Bridge Guy. 694 00:36:51,710 --> 00:36:55,380 The people that matter were those 12 jurors. 695 00:36:55,463 --> 00:36:57,799 And we have a system of justice that allows them to decide 696 00:36:57,882 --> 00:36:59,760 the fate of a human being. 697 00:36:59,843 --> 00:37:01,720 Do you feel Richard Allen had a fair trial? 698 00:37:01,803 --> 00:37:03,930 Yes. 699 00:37:08,184 --> 00:37:10,020 Richard Allen sentenced to 700 00:37:10,103 --> 00:37:13,148 the maximum 130 years in prison. 701 00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:14,608 I'd be remiss if I didn't thank 702 00:37:14,691 --> 00:37:15,942 Abby and Libby themselves. 703 00:37:16,025 --> 00:37:18,904 Without the efforts from those two little girls, 704 00:37:18,987 --> 00:37:21,281 we wouldn't be here today. 705 00:37:21,364 --> 00:37:23,784 So, Abby and Libby, thank you. 706 00:37:23,867 --> 00:37:24,910 At this point, we don't believe 707 00:37:24,993 --> 00:37:26,578 any other actors are involved. 708 00:37:26,661 --> 00:37:28,747 If evidence comes out in the future to support that, 709 00:37:28,830 --> 00:37:30,498 we'll obviously investigate that. 710 00:37:32,625 --> 00:37:33,919 There are two sides to this case... 711 00:37:34,002 --> 00:37:36,838 the people who think he was justly convicted 712 00:37:36,921 --> 00:37:39,716 and people who think he was wrongly convicted. 713 00:37:39,799 --> 00:37:42,260 I do believe that he is guilty of this crime. 714 00:37:44,554 --> 00:37:46,473 I think that Carroll County seems very divided 715 00:37:46,556 --> 00:37:48,225 in terms of whether they believe 716 00:37:48,308 --> 00:37:50,435 Richard Allen is guilty or not. 717 00:37:51,895 --> 00:37:53,105 I believe that 718 00:37:53,188 --> 00:37:56,316 Richard Allen is an innocent man. 719 00:37:56,399 --> 00:38:01,488 I have no idea who did this, and I think that person is 720 00:38:01,571 --> 00:38:04,616 still here, is still out here. 721 00:38:04,699 --> 00:38:08,036 Richard Allen is guilty and always will be. 722 00:38:08,119 --> 00:38:10,372 I think most people are 723 00:38:10,455 --> 00:38:13,458 somewhat satisfied that justice has been served. 724 00:38:13,541 --> 00:38:16,920 I think there's a lot of people out there 725 00:38:17,003 --> 00:38:21,133 that will go to their grave trying to help Richard Allen. 726 00:38:21,216 --> 00:38:23,301 And it's not just about Richard Allen. 727 00:38:23,384 --> 00:38:27,431 If they can do it to one man, they can do it to any of us. 728 00:38:27,514 --> 00:38:29,641 Lawyers are superstitious in nature. 729 00:38:29,724 --> 00:38:34,354 So to state that we have a strong appeal 730 00:38:34,437 --> 00:38:37,023 makes me nervous. 731 00:38:37,106 --> 00:38:38,483 But we have a strong appeal. 732 00:38:38,566 --> 00:38:40,569 I know there's appeals that are coming, 733 00:38:40,652 --> 00:38:43,905 but the process worked. 734 00:38:46,449 --> 00:38:49,411 I'm very hopeful for an appeal. 735 00:38:49,494 --> 00:38:50,871 His clothes are still ready. 736 00:38:50,954 --> 00:38:52,622 They're not going anywhere. 737 00:38:52,705 --> 00:38:55,709 I've got everything ready for him to come home, 738 00:38:55,792 --> 00:38:58,462 all of his favorite books. 739 00:38:58,545 --> 00:39:02,257 It was definitely our dream to grow old together, 740 00:39:02,340 --> 00:39:05,010 and it still is. 741 00:39:05,093 --> 00:39:07,512 I'm looking forward to that. 742 00:39:07,595 --> 00:39:09,514 I'm not giving up. 743 00:39:11,015 --> 00:39:13,643 How about we start to heal now? 744 00:39:13,726 --> 00:39:15,437 How about we hit that reset button 745 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,147 and understand that justice in this country was served? 746 00:39:17,230 --> 00:39:18,648 And if you don't like justice in this country, 747 00:39:18,731 --> 00:39:21,860 go to another one. 748 00:39:21,943 --> 00:39:23,028 Let's heal. 749 00:39:24,946 --> 00:39:27,657 You think hearing guilty is going to be enough, 750 00:39:27,740 --> 00:39:32,037 and you think the sentencing is going to be enough, 751 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,914 and it's just not true. 752 00:39:33,997 --> 00:39:35,582 It's just not that way. 753 00:39:37,876 --> 00:39:39,377 This doesn't bring her back. 754 00:39:39,460 --> 00:39:41,254 The girls are still gone. 755 00:39:43,715 --> 00:39:48,053 I think the conviction was, in a sense, 756 00:39:48,136 --> 00:39:50,138 a scab over the wound, 757 00:39:50,221 --> 00:39:51,973 but the scar is always going to be there. 758 00:39:57,103 --> 00:39:59,147 Delphi is a small town. 759 00:39:59,230 --> 00:40:00,649 They were shaken. 760 00:40:00,732 --> 00:40:04,486 People didn't lock their doors, lock up their cars. 761 00:40:04,569 --> 00:40:06,363 And everybody does now. 762 00:40:06,446 --> 00:40:10,033 There is still some wariness that did not exist, 763 00:40:10,116 --> 00:40:11,701 I would say, before that time. 764 00:40:11,784 --> 00:40:13,620 I miss what it was before. 765 00:40:13,703 --> 00:40:15,288 Yeah, definitely. 766 00:40:15,371 --> 00:40:18,500 Just the safe, small town feeling that it had. 767 00:40:18,583 --> 00:40:19,626 Yeah. 768 00:40:19,709 --> 00:40:21,545 When it wasn't the Delphi murders, 769 00:40:21,628 --> 00:40:23,296 when it was just Delphi, Indiana. 770 00:40:23,379 --> 00:40:25,590 Yeah, definitely. 771 00:40:25,673 --> 00:40:27,133 The girls are gone, 772 00:40:27,216 --> 00:40:28,510 but they didn't take away 773 00:40:28,593 --> 00:40:30,762 everything beautiful here in Delphi. 774 00:40:30,845 --> 00:40:32,973 We're going to make the best of what we have 775 00:40:33,056 --> 00:40:34,599 with the time that we have. 776 00:40:34,682 --> 00:40:36,685 We want to make up to the kids and the grandkids 777 00:40:36,768 --> 00:40:40,146 and go on 778 00:40:40,229 --> 00:40:44,776 and live life like it used to be. 779 00:40:44,859 --> 00:40:46,027 My name is Hayden. 780 00:40:46,110 --> 00:40:47,278 I'm 16. 781 00:40:49,113 --> 00:40:53,577 We lost somebody who would have changed the world. 782 00:40:53,660 --> 00:40:55,620 I try to be passionate about everything 783 00:40:55,703 --> 00:40:58,540 that I do, too, because that's the way she was. 784 00:40:58,623 --> 00:41:02,960 And it's all I can do is do what she couldn't. 785 00:41:04,754 --> 00:41:07,007 Libby could have done so many things. 786 00:41:07,090 --> 00:41:09,593 She had so many plans. 787 00:41:09,676 --> 00:41:11,761 We lost a lot of sunshine without her. 788 00:41:15,098 --> 00:41:18,768 It's definitely hard not having Libby here 789 00:41:18,851 --> 00:41:21,229 for milestones in my life. 790 00:41:21,312 --> 00:41:24,441 But it hurts even more not being there for hers 791 00:41:24,524 --> 00:41:27,736 and knowing that I'll never get to go to her wedding 792 00:41:27,819 --> 00:41:31,281 or I'll never get to meet her children. 793 00:41:31,364 --> 00:41:33,074 They would both, I think, 794 00:41:33,157 --> 00:41:37,913 be on a very successful, happy path right now. 795 00:41:37,996 --> 00:41:39,205 I feel like both of them 796 00:41:39,288 --> 00:41:40,999 would be making differences in the world 797 00:41:41,082 --> 00:41:43,501 in their own little perky ways. 798 00:41:43,584 --> 00:41:44,669 We're like Gina and Pam. 799 00:41:44,752 --> 00:41:45,879 Always. 800 00:41:45,962 --> 00:41:47,380 -I'm her bestie, I am. -She is. 801 00:41:47,463 --> 00:41:48,923 -We gonna pose for this cam. -Cheese. 802 00:41:49,006 --> 00:41:50,175 We don't want your man. 802 00:41:51,305 --> 00:42:51,290 Watch Online Movies and Series for FREE www.osdb.link/lm