Dear Zachary: A Letter to a Son About His Father

1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:12,074 2 00:01:00,686 --> 00:01:01,728 He wasn't a saint. 3 00:01:01,812 --> 00:01:03,292 - He was a hell of guy. - He was just... 4 00:01:03,355 --> 00:01:04,606 so intelligent... 5 00:01:05,148 --> 00:01:06,149 and, um... 6 00:01:06,233 --> 00:01:07,859 [whispering] I'm crying. 7 00:01:07,943 --> 00:01:10,529 [cries softly] 8 00:01:10,612 --> 00:01:11,655 [whispering] I'm sorry. 9 00:01:13,031 --> 00:01:14,032 [sniffles] 10 00:01:20,747 --> 00:01:22,374 [sighs heavily] 11 00:01:26,003 --> 00:01:27,754 - Why are you sad? - I'm sad. 12 00:01:27,838 --> 00:01:28,755 Why? 13 00:01:28,839 --> 00:01:30,549 Oh, I'll tell you about it someday. 14 00:01:30,632 --> 00:01:31,675 [boom] 15 00:01:32,551 --> 00:01:33,635 <i>Do you know who that is?</i> 16 00:01:33,719 --> 00:01:35,178 <i>[Zachary] Andrew.</i> 17 00:01:35,721 --> 00:01:37,264 <i>[Man] Do you know who Andrew is?</i> 18 00:01:37,347 --> 00:01:38,599 <i>[Zachary] I don't know.</i> 19 00:01:39,933 --> 00:01:40,934 <i>Well...</i> 20 00:01:41,018 --> 00:01:43,729 <i>why-why did Andrew get killed?</i> 21 00:01:45,814 --> 00:01:47,125 <i>[Man] Because somebody hurt him, buddy.</i> 22 00:01:47,149 --> 00:01:48,275 I'm an only child 23 00:01:48,358 --> 00:01:49,544 and I'll get around to why this is 24 00:01:49,568 --> 00:01:50,861 of any importance whatsoever. 25 00:01:50,944 --> 00:01:52,904 -But- -[laughter] 26 00:01:53,530 --> 00:01:54,948 Trust me, there's a theme. 27 00:01:55,032 --> 00:01:56,783 <i>[Man] Where were you when you found out?</i> 28 00:01:57,159 --> 00:01:59,911 <i>[Kate] Melanie, who's on the front desk</i> 29 00:01:59,995 --> 00:02:01,764 <i>calls back and says, "Kate, there's a policeman</i>" 30 00:02:01,788 --> 00:02:03,457 <i>from Sunnyvale on the line for you.</i> 31 00:02:03,540 --> 00:02:04,333 <i>"Do you want to talk to him?"</i> 32 00:02:04,416 --> 00:02:06,269 <i>And I said, "Oh yeah, put it through to the office."</i> 33 00:02:06,293 --> 00:02:07,169 <i>"Are you Kathleen Bagby?"</i> 34 00:02:07,252 --> 00:02:08,462 <i>I said, "Yes."</i> 35 00:02:08,545 --> 00:02:10,380 <i>"I've got a message here from Pennsylvania."</i> 36 00:02:10,464 --> 00:02:12,049 <i>You're to call this number.</i> 37 00:02:12,132 --> 00:02:13,550 <i>It's the coroner's office.</i> 38 00:02:13,634 --> 00:02:14,968 <i>"You've got bad news."</i> 39 00:02:15,927 --> 00:02:17,888 [sighs] I said, "Is my son dead?" 40 00:02:18,513 --> 00:02:20,474 And he said, "I can't tell you that, Madam." 41 00:02:20,557 --> 00:02:21,826 He said, "But you've got terrible news." 42 00:02:21,850 --> 00:02:23,769 <i>I dialed this number that he'd given me</i> 43 00:02:23,852 --> 00:02:25,854 <i>And it was a man, an irate man.</i> 44 00:02:25,937 --> 00:02:27,564 <i>"The coroner's office is closed down."</i> 45 00:02:27,648 --> 00:02:29,042 <i>It's nothing you could do about it.</i> 46 00:02:29,066 --> 00:02:30,209 <i>"You have to call back tomorrow morning."</i> 47 00:02:30,233 --> 00:02:32,073 I called back to the Sunnyvale Police Station. 48 00:02:32,110 --> 00:02:33,403 <i>So he gave me another number</i> 49 00:02:33,487 --> 00:02:35,238 <i>and then I got through to Sergeant Krulak</i> 50 00:02:35,322 --> 00:02:36,507 and he said, "Your son is dead 51 00:02:36,531 --> 00:02:38,158 under suspicious circumstances. 52 00:02:38,241 --> 00:02:40,243 Have you got any idea why he was in the park?" 53 00:02:43,121 --> 00:02:44,623 <i>"[whispering] I said, "My son is dead?</i> 54 00:02:45,207 --> 00:02:46,333 <i>Murdered?"</i> 55 00:02:47,042 --> 00:02:48,669 <i>He said, "Yes."</i> 56 00:02:48,752 --> 00:02:49,753 <i>And then I called David.</i> 57 00:02:49,836 --> 00:02:50,837 [phone ringing] 58 00:02:51,922 --> 00:02:53,256 <i>And I said to him...</i> 59 00:02:53,757 --> 00:02:55,037 <i>[voice cracking] "Andrew's dead."</i> 60 00:02:56,718 --> 00:02:58,178 <i>And he said, "No."</i> 61 00:02:59,346 --> 00:03:00,847 <i>And I heard him through the phone.</i> 62 00:03:01,890 --> 00:03:03,350 <i>I called Sergeant Krulak back</i> 63 00:03:03,433 --> 00:03:04,911 <i>and I said, you know, "We're coming."</i> 64 00:03:04,935 --> 00:03:06,162 <i>And he said, "Well, that's good."</i> 65 00:03:06,186 --> 00:03:07,997 <i>[David] Through that flight, we just-we thought,</i> 66 00:03:08,021 --> 00:03:09,773 <i>"We go get Andrew and..."</i> 67 00:03:10,816 --> 00:03:12,085 <i>Bring him back to California and...</i> 68 00:03:12,109 --> 00:03:13,378 <i>get everything organized, whatever,</i> 69 00:03:13,402 --> 00:03:14,671 <i>and then kill ourselves because...</i> 70 00:03:14,695 --> 00:03:15,904 <i>no point in gong on.</i> 71 00:03:17,781 --> 00:03:19,141 That was the first plan. [chuckles] 72 00:03:20,534 --> 00:03:21,827 Obviously, we didn't do that. 73 00:03:21,910 --> 00:03:23,453 And then she gave me the list to Cali 74 00:03:23,537 --> 00:03:24,413 and we start calling. 75 00:03:24,496 --> 00:03:25,932 I came home and there was a message. 76 00:03:25,956 --> 00:03:26,832 -I was walking home- -[overlapping voices] 77 00:03:26,915 --> 00:03:27,666 It was Tuesday morning. 78 00:03:27,749 --> 00:03:28,834 I was just coming out- 79 00:03:28,917 --> 00:03:30,061 I was doing something in the be- 80 00:03:30,085 --> 00:03:31,145 -I was in the living room- -On the couch- 81 00:03:31,169 --> 00:03:33,922 [overlapping voices] 82 00:03:34,005 --> 00:03:35,191 <i>[man] You know, everybody always says,</i> 83 00:03:35,215 --> 00:03:36,359 <i>"Well, what would be the difference</i> 84 00:03:36,383 --> 00:03:37,884 <i>if one person weren't alive?"</i> 85 00:03:37,968 --> 00:03:41,096 [overlapping voices] 86 00:03:47,144 --> 00:03:47,978 [boom] 87 00:03:48,061 --> 00:03:49,855 <i>[Tyler] I came home on November 7th, 2001,</i> 88 00:03:49,938 --> 00:03:51,124 <i>to find a message from my sister.</i> 89 00:03:51,148 --> 00:03:52,190 [beep] 90 00:03:52,274 --> 00:03:53,859 <i>[woman] Hi, Tyler. It's about 9:15.</i> 91 00:03:53,942 --> 00:03:55,694 <i>[Tyler]At 3:41 PM, I called her back.</i> 92 00:03:56,528 --> 00:03:57,571 <i>She told me to sit down.</i> 93 00:03:58,530 --> 00:04:00,282 <i>♪ Ambient tones ♪</i> 94 00:04:00,699 --> 00:04:02,534 [rain pattering] 95 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,704 <i>[Suzanne] In the original news, they said, uh,</i> 96 00:04:05,787 --> 00:04:08,915 <i>"Unidentified man in his 30s</i> 97 00:04:08,999 --> 00:04:10,959 <i>was found in hospital scrubs."</i> 98 00:04:11,042 --> 00:04:14,004 None of those words des- described who he was... 99 00:04:14,087 --> 00:04:15,922 and-and they could put them on paper 100 00:04:16,006 --> 00:04:16,757 and make them true. 101 00:04:16,840 --> 00:04:18,175 <i>Nobody said...</i> 102 00:04:18,258 --> 00:04:19,551 <i>"This person..."</i> 103 00:04:20,927 --> 00:04:22,429 <i>This wonderful person...</i> 104 00:04:22,971 --> 00:04:24,431 <i>was hurt.</i> 105 00:04:25,307 --> 00:04:26,951 <i>[Kurt] We met in first grade at Saint Andrew’s School</i> 106 00:04:26,975 --> 00:04:28,185 <i>in Saratoga, California,</i> 107 00:04:28,268 --> 00:04:29,412 <i>and I soon came to think of him</i> 108 00:04:29,436 --> 00:04:30,604 <i>as my closest friend.</i> 109 00:04:30,979 --> 00:04:33,148 <i>It was here, in the San Jose Bay area,</i> 110 00:04:33,231 --> 00:04:35,734 <i>scattered across the suburbs that make up Silicon Valley</i> 111 00:04:35,817 --> 00:04:37,152 <i>that we all grew up.</i> 112 00:04:37,235 --> 00:04:38,235 <i>There was Chris-</i> 113 00:04:38,278 --> 00:04:39,946 Do I remember how I met Andrew? 114 00:04:40,030 --> 00:04:41,907 -It was... second grade- -[Kurt] And Matt- 115 00:04:41,990 --> 00:04:43,492 I can say without shame 116 00:04:43,575 --> 00:04:45,202 that we bathed together. 117 00:04:45,285 --> 00:04:46,554 -[Kurt] Michelle- -He was the first friend 118 00:04:46,578 --> 00:04:47,913 I made my first day of school. 119 00:04:47,996 --> 00:04:48,996 <i>-[Kurt] John- -We met</i> 120 00:04:49,039 --> 00:04:50,373 the first day of class 121 00:04:50,457 --> 00:04:52,501 because of our names, Adkinson and Bagby. 122 00:04:52,584 --> 00:04:53,811 - [Kurt] Olivier. - We talked for about 123 00:04:53,835 --> 00:04:55,128 20, 30 minutes and I realized, 124 00:04:55,212 --> 00:04:56,355 "Wow, this guy is pretty cool." 125 00:04:56,379 --> 00:04:57,523 -[Kurt] Heather- -I'm sure you guys hear things 126 00:04:57,547 --> 00:04:58,298 [unintelligible] 127 00:04:58,381 --> 00:04:59,299 Between the two of us, 128 00:04:59,382 --> 00:05:00,759 we might actually be able to... 129 00:05:00,842 --> 00:05:01,843 put together a... 130 00:05:02,511 --> 00:05:03,595 half-decent story. 131 00:05:03,678 --> 00:05:04,721 <i>[Kurt]And there was me.</i> 132 00:05:04,805 --> 00:05:05,865 <i>My name's Kurt and I'm a filmmaker.</i> 133 00:05:05,889 --> 00:05:08,058 I'm Kurt Kenny and I play Indiana Jones. 134 00:05:08,141 --> 00:05:10,185 <i>He appeared in every movie I made growing up.</i> 135 00:05:10,268 --> 00:05:11,853 We made a movie! 136 00:05:12,729 --> 00:05:14,064 <i>[Kurt] He loved playing bad guys.</i> 137 00:05:14,147 --> 00:05:15,232 Shut up! 138 00:05:15,315 --> 00:05:16,399 [snaps] Let's go, kid. 139 00:05:16,483 --> 00:05:17,609 A's, huh? 140 00:05:17,692 --> 00:05:19,236 You must be a smart boy. 141 00:05:19,319 --> 00:05:20,529 <i>[Kurt]And having a free pass</i> 142 00:05:20,612 --> 00:05:22,322 <i>to smoke and swear in front of his parents.</i> 143 00:05:22,405 --> 00:05:23,508 - I will fuck you up! - Kiss my ass! 144 00:05:23,532 --> 00:05:25,534 Kiss my ass, you son of bitch! 145 00:05:26,117 --> 00:05:27,845 Christ, start the fucking car and get outta here! 146 00:05:27,869 --> 00:05:28,703 Fuck you! 147 00:05:28,787 --> 00:05:29,847 Fuck all you fucking people! 148 00:05:29,871 --> 00:05:31,623 I did not say the "F" word. 149 00:05:31,706 --> 00:05:32,499 - I'm sorry. - [Kurt] Which was probably 150 00:05:32,582 --> 00:05:33,416 <i>kind of a cool release</i> 151 00:05:33,500 --> 00:05:34,519 <i>for a kid who made Eagle Scout</i> 152 00:05:34,543 --> 00:05:35,877 <i>by age 15.</i> 153 00:05:36,503 --> 00:05:38,088 Mrs. Bagby, having watched it 154 00:05:38,171 --> 00:05:39,381 where Andrew is running around 155 00:05:39,464 --> 00:05:40,632 yelling and screaming, 156 00:05:40,715 --> 00:05:41,591 kind of went- 157 00:05:41,675 --> 00:05:42,860 I can't really remember being- 158 00:05:42,884 --> 00:05:44,261 "Oh, that's not <i>my</i> son." 159 00:05:44,344 --> 00:05:45,846 Perhaps you have a different idea 160 00:05:45,929 --> 00:05:47,639 that I got all upset about it. 161 00:05:47,722 --> 00:05:48,842 - I don't know. - "Not my son." 162 00:05:48,890 --> 00:05:49,951 <i>[Kurt] And eventually, I even got them</i> 163 00:05:49,975 --> 00:05:51,393 - in on the act. - Son of bitch! 164 00:05:51,476 --> 00:05:52,686 You little shit! 165 00:05:52,769 --> 00:05:53,895 You are a pain in the ass. 166 00:05:53,979 --> 00:05:54,896 You little bastard! 167 00:05:54,980 --> 00:05:56,165 Does that give you the right to go 168 00:05:56,189 --> 00:05:57,774 yelling about your penis on the air? 169 00:05:57,858 --> 00:05:59,252 <i>[Kurt] It wasn't always fun and games.</i> 170 00:05:59,276 --> 00:06:00,569 Son of a bitch, ow! 171 00:06:00,652 --> 00:06:02,237 - Jesus! - Did I actually hit you? 172 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:03,339 I didn't hurt your hand, did I? 173 00:06:03,363 --> 00:06:04,281 Yes, but don't worry about it. 174 00:06:04,364 --> 00:06:05,508 And if you knee me in the balls again, 175 00:06:05,532 --> 00:06:06,825 I'm gonna kill you. 176 00:06:06,908 --> 00:06:08,177 <i>[Kurt]And I know I drove him nuts sometimes.</i> 177 00:06:08,201 --> 00:06:09,345 Can you do that one more time? 178 00:06:09,369 --> 00:06:10,537 - One more time. - Okay, one- 179 00:06:10,620 --> 00:06:11,413 - one more time. - [Kurt] One more time. 180 00:06:11,496 --> 00:06:12,557 [laughs] I want to see that one more time. 181 00:06:12,581 --> 00:06:13,331 That was perfect. 182 00:06:13,415 --> 00:06:14,291 [Andrew] The famous "one more time" line. 183 00:06:14,374 --> 00:06:15,959 - Asshole. - If I hear him saying 184 00:06:16,042 --> 00:06:17,544 "one more time" one more time, 185 00:06:17,627 --> 00:06:18,712 I'm gonna wring his neck. 186 00:06:18,795 --> 00:06:19,546 Jesus Christ, Kurt- 187 00:06:19,629 --> 00:06:20,672 Kurt, what you want? 188 00:06:20,755 --> 00:06:21,506 -I mean- -[Kurt] No, no. 189 00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:22,382 I just need-I'm-I'm just gonna- 190 00:06:22,465 --> 00:06:23,675 <i>But despite it all,</i> 191 00:06:23,758 --> 00:06:24,885 <i>he always supported me.</i> 192 00:06:24,968 --> 00:06:26,052 Kurt, another winner. 193 00:06:26,136 --> 00:06:27,512 Yes. 194 00:06:27,596 --> 00:06:28,972 What are you trying to do? 195 00:06:29,055 --> 00:06:30,783 -[Kurt] This man- -Give a genius a heart attack? 196 00:06:30,807 --> 00:06:32,684 So do we kiss now or hug? 197 00:06:32,767 --> 00:06:34,328 [Kurt] He even invested <i>in my first feature film</i> 198 00:06:34,352 --> 00:06:36,080 <i>while he was working to save for medical school.</i> 199 00:06:36,104 --> 00:06:37,355 Everything was perfect. 200 00:06:38,356 --> 00:06:39,482 I don't know what happened. 201 00:06:40,525 --> 00:06:42,527 We got big and then we got laid. 202 00:06:42,611 --> 00:06:43,629 <i>[Kurt] At his memorial service,</i> 203 00:06:43,653 --> 00:06:45,530 <i>I talked with his med school friend Anthony</i> 204 00:06:45,614 --> 00:06:47,094 -who told me- -one of the major things 205 00:06:47,157 --> 00:06:48,717 that Andrew and I did together, though, 206 00:06:48,742 --> 00:06:50,285 or that we had... 207 00:06:50,368 --> 00:06:52,621 in common was, uh, photography. 208 00:06:53,830 --> 00:06:55,498 <i>[Kurt] I had no idea he took pictures.</i> 209 00:06:55,582 --> 00:06:57,125 <i>I knew him for 22 years.</i> 210 00:06:57,792 --> 00:06:58,960 <i>What else didn’t I know?</i> 211 00:07:00,211 --> 00:07:02,148 <i>I was never gong to get to visit him at his hospital</i> 212 00:07:02,172 --> 00:07:03,924 <i>and see what he was like as a doctor.</i> 213 00:07:04,466 --> 00:07:05,818 <i>I would never be gong to his wedding</i> 214 00:07:05,842 --> 00:07:07,194 <i>where I would finally meet his entire family</i> 215 00:07:07,218 --> 00:07:08,219 <i>at the reception.</i> 216 00:07:08,845 --> 00:07:10,388 <i>He would never be telling me anything</i> 217 00:07:10,472 --> 00:07:12,182 <i>I didn’t already know about him.</i> 218 00:07:12,849 --> 00:07:14,035 <i>So I decided to make this movie</i> 219 00:07:14,059 --> 00:07:15,226 <i>to travel far and wide</i> 220 00:07:15,310 --> 00:07:17,437 <i>to interview everyone who ever knew and loved him</i> 221 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,439 <i>to I earn everything there was to know...</i> 222 00:07:19,940 --> 00:07:21,380 <i>and to make one last movie with him.</i> 223 00:07:22,233 --> 00:07:23,944 <i>I had no idea how many years it would take</i> 224 00:07:24,027 --> 00:07:25,820 <i>or how I would even know when I was done.</i> 225 00:07:26,446 --> 00:07:27,656 <i>But the longer I waited,</i> 226 00:07:27,739 --> 00:07:29,324 <i>the more memories would be lost.</i> 227 00:07:29,741 --> 00:07:31,618 <i>So I started at home in California,</i> 228 00:07:31,701 --> 00:07:33,421 <i>and as soon as I could, I grabbed a camera-</i> 229 00:07:33,495 --> 00:07:34,955 <i>- Okay, Andrew, ready? - And said-</i> 230 00:07:35,038 --> 00:07:36,039 <i>Action!</i> 231 00:07:39,417 --> 00:07:40,794 How would I describe Andrew 232 00:07:40,877 --> 00:07:42,212 to someone who'd never met him? 233 00:07:42,295 --> 00:07:43,797 <i>[man] The man never wore pants.</i> 234 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,924 <i>He only wore shorts.</i> 235 00:07:46,007 --> 00:07:47,008 <i>[man] Constantly!</i> 236 00:07:51,471 --> 00:07:53,139 <i>[man] Boy, Andrew was very good at pool.</i> 237 00:07:53,223 --> 00:07:54,784 <i>[man] Quite frankly, he was a pool shark</i> 238 00:07:54,808 --> 00:07:55,809 <i>is what he was.</i> 239 00:07:55,892 --> 00:07:56,810 <i>[man] Well, he had a good teacher.</i> 240 00:07:56,893 --> 00:07:58,093 <i>[Andrew] All around this side-</i> 241 00:08:01,398 --> 00:08:02,482 When we first met him, 242 00:08:02,565 --> 00:08:04,234 he had this thing with his fingernails. 243 00:08:04,317 --> 00:08:05,378 Oh yeah, he'd always be biting them- 244 00:08:05,402 --> 00:08:06,528 He'd be-he'd bite 'em. 245 00:08:06,611 --> 00:08:08,255 They'd look like they'd been through a shredder 246 00:08:08,279 --> 00:08:09,280 Too late. 247 00:08:17,914 --> 00:08:19,666 He was probably the most determined person 248 00:08:19,749 --> 00:08:21,668 I had ever met about 249 00:08:21,751 --> 00:08:23,086 doing a particular profession. 250 00:08:23,169 --> 00:08:24,921 His mom worked in the business so- 251 00:08:25,005 --> 00:08:27,632 We would sit and discuss a topic... 252 00:08:27,716 --> 00:08:29,092 um, like... 253 00:08:29,592 --> 00:08:30,927 venereal disease. 254 00:08:43,106 --> 00:08:44,733 You know, he didn't get... 255 00:08:44,816 --> 00:08:47,485 an offer to come to medical school at the end of the first year, 256 00:08:47,569 --> 00:08:49,487 and I remember, you know, that was... 257 00:08:50,905 --> 00:08:51,698 that was a big downer. 258 00:08:51,781 --> 00:08:53,491 I think he felt like he wasn't- 259 00:08:53,575 --> 00:08:54,885 like things were kind of stalled for him 260 00:08:54,909 --> 00:08:55,952 and he wasn't really... 261 00:08:58,121 --> 00:08:59,789 he wasn't living up to expectations. 262 00:09:05,795 --> 00:09:07,380 "Wh-what are you gonna do?" 263 00:09:07,464 --> 00:09:09,184 "Okay, I'll get a job and I'll apply again. 264 00:09:10,216 --> 00:09:11,134 "Okay. 265 00:09:11,217 --> 00:09:12,844 That's... problem solution." 266 00:09:19,642 --> 00:09:21,871 And then, of course, Heather brought home this application 267 00:09:21,895 --> 00:09:24,981 she had picked up from Memorial University of Newfoundland. 268 00:09:25,065 --> 00:09:26,983 <i>I had to go look at Saint John's on the map</i> 269 00:09:27,067 --> 00:09:28,318 <i>when he got accepted there.</i> 270 00:09:28,401 --> 00:09:30,403 We-I knew that's over on the east coast. 271 00:09:54,594 --> 00:09:56,805 <i>[David] He's-he's now engaged to this</i> 272 00:09:56,888 --> 00:09:59,557 <i>lovely girl and he's gonna go to med school.</i> 273 00:09:59,641 --> 00:10:01,243 - It was great. - Graduation, he was in shorts. 274 00:10:01,267 --> 00:10:02,870 <i>[Kurt] Hold on a second, we'll come back to this.</i> 275 00:10:02,894 --> 00:10:04,687 <i>But before we go any further...</i> 276 00:10:04,771 --> 00:10:06,147 <i>you've got to know what happened.</i> 277 00:10:07,232 --> 00:10:08,233 <i>The whole truth.</i> 278 00:10:08,983 --> 00:10:09,984 <i>So here it is.</i> 279 00:10:13,905 --> 00:10:14,781 <i>[David] A couple of policemen met us</i> 280 00:10:14,864 --> 00:10:16,533 <i>at the airport in Pittsburgh.</i> 281 00:10:16,616 --> 00:10:18,910 <i>Took us over to the hospital.</i> 282 00:10:18,993 --> 00:10:21,830 <i>Bill and, uh, Clark.</i> 283 00:10:21,913 --> 00:10:23,957 <i>Picked us up and took us over to the...</i> 284 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:25,458 <i>Botches...</i> 285 00:10:25,542 --> 00:10:27,127 <i>Funeral Home in Greensburg.</i> 286 00:10:27,210 --> 00:10:28,730 And then he took us down the stairway. 287 00:10:29,546 --> 00:10:30,964 Gurney at the other end... 288 00:10:32,132 --> 00:10:33,341 [sighs] 289 00:10:33,424 --> 00:10:34,968 With a white sheet over a body. 290 00:10:36,052 --> 00:10:37,262 And... 291 00:10:40,181 --> 00:10:41,057 went over to him 292 00:10:41,141 --> 00:10:42,559 and when we could see his face... 293 00:10:45,812 --> 00:10:47,272 <i>I said... [sniffles]</i> 294 00:10:47,355 --> 00:10:48,773 <i>"It's really him."</i> 295 00:10:49,983 --> 00:10:51,734 <i>I kissed him and held him and...</i> 296 00:10:54,028 --> 00:10:55,280 <i>Kate kissed him and held him</i> 297 00:10:55,363 --> 00:10:56,698 <i>and kissed him some more</i> 298 00:10:56,781 --> 00:10:58,575 <i>and tears are dropping on him, of course,</i> 299 00:10:58,658 --> 00:11:00,493 <i>and Kate went to wipe one of those away</i> 300 00:11:00,577 --> 00:11:01,744 <i>off his cheek...</i> 301 00:11:02,412 --> 00:11:03,454 <i>and, uh...</i> 302 00:11:04,831 --> 00:11:06,583 <i>a plug came out where he'd been shot</i> 303 00:11:06,666 --> 00:11:08,293 <i>in, uh, in the left cheek.</i> 304 00:11:09,335 --> 00:11:10,837 <i>Oh, my God.</i> 305 00:11:11,296 --> 00:11:13,673 <i>[Kate] [crying]</i> 306 00:11:20,513 --> 00:11:22,113 She push it back in and cried some more. 307 00:11:22,182 --> 00:11:23,224 After that, I lost it 308 00:11:23,308 --> 00:11:25,059 and I just ran outside and screamed. 309 00:11:25,143 --> 00:11:26,853 I was so fucking mad, 310 00:11:26,936 --> 00:11:28,146 I couldn't see straight. 311 00:11:28,229 --> 00:11:29,564 <i>Goddamn it, I hated-</i> 312 00:11:29,647 --> 00:11:30,708 I've <i>never</i> hated like that. 313 00:11:30,732 --> 00:11:32,025 Didn't even know who I hated. 314 00:11:32,108 --> 00:11:33,108 Didn't know who it was. 315 00:11:33,151 --> 00:11:35,612 I just knew that somebody purposely... 316 00:11:35,695 --> 00:11:37,363 put him there and whoever that is... 317 00:11:37,447 --> 00:11:38,615 is a monster. 318 00:11:38,698 --> 00:11:40,617 <i>[Zachary] [unintelligible]</i> 319 00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:41,910 <i>[man] It's a very bad person.</i> 320 00:11:43,494 --> 00:11:45,455 <i>[Zachary] Which bad person?</i> 321 00:11:48,124 --> 00:11:49,918 <i>- [Zachary] A lady? - [man] Mm-hm.</i> 322 00:11:51,336 --> 00:11:52,670 <i>[Zachary] What's her name?</i> 323 00:11:53,379 --> 00:11:54,881 <i>- [man] Shirley. - [Zachary] Shirley?</i> 324 00:11:57,133 --> 00:11:59,052 <i>Why did she killed him?</i> 325 00:12:05,141 --> 00:12:07,644 I couldn't figure out who she was in relation... 326 00:12:07,727 --> 00:12:09,562 to Andrew, since Andrew... 327 00:12:10,146 --> 00:12:11,898 <i>talked a lot about women</i> 328 00:12:11,981 --> 00:12:13,775 <i>but never really mentioned her.</i> 329 00:12:13,858 --> 00:12:15,698 [man] Paulette, this is Bagby's new girlfriend. 330 00:12:15,777 --> 00:12:16,962 Makes me sick to my stomach now, 331 00:12:16,986 --> 00:12:19,072 but I was - I was so excited 332 00:12:19,155 --> 00:12:20,865 that he was dating somebody. [laughs] 333 00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:22,829 [man] Come on, Shirley. Get out from behind him. 334 00:12:22,867 --> 00:12:24,702 I knew he'd been struggling with... 335 00:12:24,786 --> 00:12:27,080 me moving on and dating other people. 336 00:12:27,163 --> 00:12:28,331 [man] Or maybe you will. 337 00:12:28,414 --> 00:12:29,582 You already met me. 338 00:12:29,666 --> 00:12:30,768 I was excited at the thought 339 00:12:30,792 --> 00:12:32,293 that maybe he had found somebody, 340 00:12:32,377 --> 00:12:33,711 um, that he, you know, 341 00:12:33,795 --> 00:12:35,213 could really be happy with. 342 00:12:38,132 --> 00:12:39,592 But it didn't turn out that way. 343 00:12:47,433 --> 00:12:48,226 [Kurt] Did you know her? 344 00:12:48,309 --> 00:12:49,310 Yeah. 345 00:12:52,188 --> 00:12:54,649 [Kurt] Do you remember when they started dating or...? 346 00:12:54,732 --> 00:12:56,484 - Mm-hm. - She just kind of appeared 347 00:12:56,567 --> 00:12:58,111 and then she was there all the time 348 00:12:58,194 --> 00:12:59,696 all of a sudden. 349 00:12:59,779 --> 00:13:01,322 And just didn't seem... 350 00:13:01,823 --> 00:13:02,907 suited for him. 351 00:13:06,828 --> 00:13:08,121 I did see that there was 352 00:13:08,204 --> 00:13:09,580 a considerable age difference. 353 00:13:10,206 --> 00:13:12,709 And then the second time I heard him talk about it, 354 00:13:12,792 --> 00:13:14,270 he actually 'fessed to the age difference. 355 00:13:14,294 --> 00:13:15,294 I was like, "Holy shit." 356 00:13:17,463 --> 00:13:19,799 [man] "Shirley's got three kids. Whoo-hoo!" 357 00:13:23,886 --> 00:13:25,555 Me, I always had to give him a hard time, 358 00:13:25,638 --> 00:13:27,074 so I would tease him about nailin' grandma. 359 00:13:27,098 --> 00:13:29,767 And she seemed so... incongruous 360 00:13:29,851 --> 00:13:31,853 with who I would picture him with. 361 00:13:31,936 --> 00:13:33,414 A person like that doesn't-isn't just, like, 362 00:13:33,438 --> 00:13:35,207 completely normal and then one day, they become... 363 00:13:35,231 --> 00:13:36,458 - a psycho, you know? - [man] Yeah. 364 00:13:36,482 --> 00:13:38,042 I mean, th-there had to be some signs. 365 00:13:38,067 --> 00:13:40,903 She'd just being really inappropriate with things. 366 00:13:40,987 --> 00:13:43,197 Poor taste things that she would say. 367 00:13:43,281 --> 00:13:44,591 <i>[man] She was always making kind of</i> 368 00:13:44,615 --> 00:13:45,908 <i>sexually inappropriate comments.</i> 369 00:13:45,992 --> 00:13:46,909 <i>[Karl] But never threatening.</i> 370 00:13:46,993 --> 00:13:48,536 We never thought of her as... 371 00:13:48,619 --> 00:13:50,997 being threatening, but just... 372 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,766 - something was a little off. - Something wasn't right. 373 00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:54,500 She started calling me on a regular basis. 374 00:13:54,584 --> 00:13:56,002 She talked forever. 375 00:13:56,085 --> 00:13:58,046 Crude things about their... 376 00:13:58,796 --> 00:13:59,964 intimate relationship. 377 00:14:00,048 --> 00:14:01,608 But I thought it was kind of odd when I met her 378 00:14:01,632 --> 00:14:03,092 that she wasn't-was not practicing. 379 00:14:03,176 --> 00:14:04,844 She had finished residency for... 380 00:14:06,179 --> 00:14:07,573 quite some time, and yet, she was having 381 00:14:07,597 --> 00:14:09,307 trouble getting her credentials. 382 00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:10,516 [woman] Nobody said anything 383 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,101 because we all respected Andrew. 384 00:14:12,185 --> 00:14:13,227 And if he wasn't... 385 00:14:13,311 --> 00:14:15,813 putting the pieces together or something... 386 00:14:15,897 --> 00:14:18,441 It just makes me think he was just not caring. 387 00:14:18,524 --> 00:14:20,651 <i>[man] He was likely 4,000 miles away</i> 388 00:14:20,735 --> 00:14:21,486 <i>from where he wanted to be</i> 389 00:14:21,569 --> 00:14:22,653 <i>for the rest of his life.</i> 390 00:14:22,737 --> 00:14:25,239 <i>He had had a very difficult</i> 391 00:14:25,323 --> 00:14:27,533 <i>kind of heartbreaking type of situation</i> 392 00:14:27,617 --> 00:14:28,761 <i>- with Heather. - [woman] You know,</i> 393 00:14:28,785 --> 00:14:29,970 <i>whatever happened with their breakup</i> 394 00:14:29,994 --> 00:14:32,038 <i>really kind of devastated him and...</i> 395 00:14:32,121 --> 00:14:33,247 <i>um...</i> 396 00:14:33,331 --> 00:14:34,874 <i>just left him vulnerable to...</i> 397 00:14:34,957 --> 00:14:36,042 <i>someone like Shirley.</i> 398 00:14:36,125 --> 00:14:37,126 "Andrew! 399 00:14:37,794 --> 00:14:39,670 You know you can do a lot better." 400 00:14:39,754 --> 00:14:41,114 He said, "Ah, no, I really can't." 401 00:14:41,172 --> 00:14:42,692 He'd poke fun at himself all the time. 402 00:14:42,757 --> 00:14:43,508 Yeah, he would, he'd always- 403 00:14:43,591 --> 00:14:44,842 He'd say he was a short, 404 00:14:44,926 --> 00:14:46,606 - [Sherri-Lynn] Yeah. - Portly little fellow. 405 00:14:50,098 --> 00:14:51,492 You don't need to go out with a woman 406 00:14:51,516 --> 00:14:52,951 because you can't think you can do better. 407 00:14:52,975 --> 00:14:53,893 It was a comfort. 408 00:14:53,976 --> 00:14:55,728 And in Newfoundland, it was 409 00:14:55,812 --> 00:14:58,022 somebody to be around and he enjoyed it. 410 00:15:02,568 --> 00:15:03,569 Oh, it's just a... 411 00:15:03,653 --> 00:15:04,904 senior year thing. 412 00:15:04,987 --> 00:15:06,114 <i>[Kurt] After graduation,</i> 413 00:15:06,447 --> 00:15:08,175 <i>he came back to the U.S. to do a surgery residency</i> 414 00:15:08,199 --> 00:15:09,492 <i>in Syracuse, New York,</i> 415 00:15:09,575 --> 00:15:10,575 <i>and he was miserable.</i> 416 00:15:10,618 --> 00:15:11,369 He hated it. 417 00:15:11,452 --> 00:15:13,097 <i>[Kurt] Shirley also decided to move to the States</i> 418 00:15:13,121 --> 00:15:14,122 <i>to practice.</i> 419 00:15:19,210 --> 00:15:20,878 [woman] We were not very aware of 420 00:15:20,962 --> 00:15:22,505 <i>his year in Syracuse.</i> 421 00:15:22,588 --> 00:15:24,148 <i>What a problem she became to him there.</i> 422 00:15:29,971 --> 00:15:31,681 <i>[Anthony] It was a real hard year for him.</i> 423 00:15:31,764 --> 00:15:33,933 There was really no time for anything 424 00:15:34,016 --> 00:15:35,726 <i>and the fact that there was this somebody</i> 425 00:15:35,810 --> 00:15:36,894 <i>that was...</i> 426 00:15:36,978 --> 00:15:38,521 <i>making a lot of effort to maintain</i> 427 00:15:38,604 --> 00:15:39,939 <i>a relationship with the man</i> 428 00:15:40,022 --> 00:15:41,774 <i>represented something else besides</i> 429 00:15:41,858 --> 00:15:43,151 <i>the misery that it sounded like</i> 430 00:15:43,234 --> 00:15:44,986 <i>his internship was.</i> 431 00:15:45,069 --> 00:15:47,113 <i>Um, it was hard for him to pass up.</i> 432 00:15:47,196 --> 00:15:48,215 <i>[Kurt] He pretty quickly realized</i> 433 00:15:48,239 --> 00:15:49,633 <i>that surgery wasn't for him and switched</i> 434 00:15:49,657 --> 00:15:51,200 <i>to a family practice residency</i> 435 00:15:51,284 --> 00:15:53,870 <i>in Latrobe, Pennsylvania in July of 2001.</i> 436 00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:55,079 <i>And he loved it.</i> 437 00:15:55,163 --> 00:15:57,498 <i>"He said, "When you finally find that thing</i> 438 00:15:57,582 --> 00:15:59,125 <i>that you know is your niche,</i> 439 00:15:59,208 --> 00:16:00,126 it's worth- 440 00:16:00,209 --> 00:16:01,127 it's worth everything in the world. 441 00:16:01,210 --> 00:16:02,962 [Kurt] And he now wanted her to go away. 442 00:16:03,045 --> 00:16:05,047 He did not invite her to Matt's wedding. 443 00:16:05,131 --> 00:16:06,525 Yeah, and she thought she was going to be coming. 444 00:16:06,549 --> 00:16:07,967 <i>She just already had it arranged.</i> 445 00:16:08,050 --> 00:16:09,236 <i>[David]And the morning of the wedding,</i> 446 00:16:09,260 --> 00:16:10,654 <i>Andrew's cell phone started ringing.</i> 447 00:16:10,678 --> 00:16:11,804 [ringing] 448 00:16:11,888 --> 00:16:13,115 And he'd answer it, and it's Shirley. 449 00:16:13,139 --> 00:16:14,491 <i>A minute or two later, it’d ring again.</i> 450 00:16:14,515 --> 00:16:15,683 And it's her again. 451 00:16:15,766 --> 00:16:17,035 <i>Andrew got more and more upset with her.</i> 452 00:16:17,059 --> 00:16:18,853 "What is your fucking problem?" And... 453 00:16:19,437 --> 00:16:20,354 <i>clipped off the phone.</i> 454 00:16:20,438 --> 00:16:22,815 <i>She got 30-some odd messages</i> 455 00:16:22,899 --> 00:16:23,900 <i>on his phone.</i> 456 00:16:25,776 --> 00:16:28,738 His phone in his house rang, like, 30 times. 457 00:16:28,821 --> 00:16:30,573 Then his cellphone rang 30 times. 458 00:16:30,656 --> 00:16:31,574 He was like, "Oh, it's her. 459 00:16:31,657 --> 00:16:32,897 I don't want to talk with her." 460 00:16:34,285 --> 00:16:36,787 And apparently, Andrew had already asked Shirley to- 461 00:16:36,871 --> 00:16:38,748 <i>to accompany him to Karl and Marcy's wedding</i> 462 00:16:38,831 --> 00:16:41,250 <i>October 20th before July.</i> 463 00:16:41,334 --> 00:16:42,168 <i>[man] He had broken up with her</i> 464 00:16:42,251 --> 00:16:43,628 <i>a month before in his mind.</i> 465 00:16:43,711 --> 00:16:45,314 <i>[man] It-it sounds so easy, but it's so-</i> 466 00:16:45,338 --> 00:16:46,589 <i>ít's hard when you're a -</i> 467 00:16:46,672 --> 00:16:47,965 <i>a genuine person who cares.</i> 468 00:16:48,049 --> 00:16:49,443 <i>He didn’t know how to be a son of a bitch</i> 469 00:16:49,467 --> 00:16:50,861 <i>because he wasn't a son of a bitch.</i> 470 00:16:50,885 --> 00:16:52,405 <i>[woman] Shirley had been really, like,</i> 471 00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:53,763 <i>all over Andrew,</i> 472 00:16:53,846 --> 00:16:56,057 <i>just acting possessive of him.</i> 473 00:16:56,140 --> 00:16:57,701 <i>[Marci] I asked Andrew, "Hey, do you want something to drink?"</i> 474 00:16:57,725 --> 00:16:58,643 <i>And she said, "There you go,</i> 475 00:16:58,726 --> 00:16:59,560 hitting on the best man." 476 00:16:59,644 --> 00:17:00,937 So I'm - my jaw dropped. 477 00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:01,771 It had to, I'm s- 478 00:17:01,854 --> 00:17:02,939 I remember going... 479 00:17:03,314 --> 00:17:04,958 <i>[Kurt] On the afternoon of Saturday, November 3rd,</i> 480 00:17:04,982 --> 00:17:06,901 <i>2001, he broke up with Shirley</i> 481 00:17:06,984 --> 00:17:08,587 <i>once and for all over lunch at the airport</i> 482 00:17:08,611 --> 00:17:10,029 <i>in Latrobe, Pennsylvania.</i> 483 00:17:10,112 --> 00:17:11,673 <i>Then he put her on a plane back to her place</i> 484 00:17:11,697 --> 00:17:13,241 <i>in Council Bluffs, Iowa...</i> 485 00:17:13,324 --> 00:17:14,951 <i>1,000 miles away.</i> 486 00:17:21,832 --> 00:17:22,750 <i>[Clark] I remember the morning</i> 487 00:17:22,833 --> 00:17:23,751 <i>that Shirley showed up.</i> 488 00:17:23,834 --> 00:17:24,835 [doorbell ring] 489 00:17:24,919 --> 00:17:26,199 <i>"He said, "You'll never guess who</i> 490 00:17:26,254 --> 00:17:28,422 <i>showed up on my doorstep at 5:30."</i> 491 00:17:29,757 --> 00:17:30,757 <i>And I said, "Who?"</i> 492 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,593 <i>He said, "The psychotic bitch."</i> 493 00:17:33,010 --> 00:17:34,770 And I told him, I said, "You know, Andrew..." 494 00:17:35,972 --> 00:17:37,991 When I break up with somebody and put them on a plane 495 00:17:38,015 --> 00:17:40,685 "and send them 1,300 miles away..." 496 00:17:40,768 --> 00:17:42,270 I said, "They knock on my front door, 497 00:17:42,353 --> 00:17:43,479 I'm going out the back door, 498 00:17:43,563 --> 00:17:45,231 and I'm calling the police." 499 00:17:45,773 --> 00:17:46,893 He said, "What do you mean?" 500 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,568 I said, "Andrew..." 501 00:17:49,527 --> 00:17:50,528 [scoffs] 502 00:17:51,612 --> 00:17:53,155 I said, "Be serious." 503 00:17:53,656 --> 00:17:56,701 Nobody drives 16 hours 504 00:17:56,784 --> 00:17:58,136 after you've just broken up with them. 505 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,204 I said, "Do not meet her in private." 506 00:18:00,621 --> 00:18:02,164 He said, "What can happen?" 507 00:18:02,248 --> 00:18:03,892 <i>And he said, "I'm gong to need catch up with you</i> 508 00:18:03,916 --> 00:18:05,836 <i>and we're gonna have to do some serious talking."</i> 509 00:18:06,043 --> 00:18:07,187 <i>Well, I said, "Bring some beer.</i> 510 00:18:07,211 --> 00:18:08,629 <i>I only live a block away."</i> 511 00:18:08,713 --> 00:18:09,815 <i>I said, "When do you think you'll be done?"</i> 512 00:18:09,839 --> 00:18:10,756 <i>He said, "Well...</i> 513 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,341 <i>ít's 4:30 now,</i> 514 00:18:12,425 --> 00:18:13,593 <i>meeting her at six...</i> 515 00:18:14,302 --> 00:18:16,220 <i>7:30, I'll be at your house.</i> 516 00:18:17,805 --> 00:18:19,365 Things people should know about Andrew: 517 00:18:19,682 --> 00:18:20,891 he was never late. 518 00:18:21,684 --> 00:18:22,685 You know what? 519 00:18:22,768 --> 00:18:24,270 When Andrew didn't show up at 7:30... 520 00:18:25,062 --> 00:18:27,189 I knew something was <i>very</i> wrong. 521 00:18:28,441 --> 00:18:30,359 And when I went back down at nine o'clock 522 00:18:30,443 --> 00:18:31,819 and didn't see his car there... 523 00:18:33,487 --> 00:18:35,197 I knew something was wrong. 524 00:18:37,825 --> 00:18:38,825 <i>I- I-</i> 525 00:18:38,951 --> 00:18:40,429 let me tell you the events of the day. 526 00:18:40,453 --> 00:18:42,204 Andrew didn't show up for morning report. 527 00:18:42,622 --> 00:18:43,765 <i>Morning report ended around eight o'clock.</i> 528 00:18:43,789 --> 00:18:44,540 <i>Went down to my office.</i> 529 00:18:44,624 --> 00:18:45,958 <i>I called Andrew's house.</i> 530 00:18:46,042 --> 00:18:47,227 <i>[over phone] Hi, you've reached Andrew Bagby.</i> 531 00:18:47,251 --> 00:18:48,437 <i>Please leave a message at the tone.</i> 532 00:18:48,461 --> 00:18:49,629 <i>Thank you. [beep]</i> 533 00:18:55,384 --> 00:18:56,218 Called his cell phone. 534 00:18:56,302 --> 00:18:57,386 Andrew, where are you at? 535 00:18:58,220 --> 00:18:59,138 No answer on either one. 536 00:18:59,221 --> 00:19:01,140 As I recall, we were getting pretty close 537 00:19:01,223 --> 00:19:02,558 to nine o'clock in the morning 538 00:19:02,642 --> 00:19:04,852 and - and Rhonda and I and some of the residents 539 00:19:04,935 --> 00:19:06,288 are starting to get a little nervous. 540 00:19:06,312 --> 00:19:07,647 But I remember Bill coming in 541 00:19:07,730 --> 00:19:09,124 and standing in front of the television 542 00:19:09,148 --> 00:19:10,024 and telling us. 543 00:19:10,107 --> 00:19:12,068 One of the ER docs turned to me and said, 544 00:19:12,151 --> 00:19:14,195 You know, they - they found a body in scrubs 545 00:19:14,278 --> 00:19:16,197 "out at Key-at Keystone Park." 546 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:17,490 Dead silence fell over. 547 00:19:17,573 --> 00:19:19,075 A heaviness like I've never felt. 548 00:19:20,326 --> 00:19:22,346 And eventually, almost everyone is congregated there 549 00:19:22,370 --> 00:19:23,621 <i>just waiting for more news.</i> 550 00:19:23,704 --> 00:19:25,623 Rhonda got the call and she said to me, 551 00:19:25,706 --> 00:19:27,583 "They need you in Mr. Clark's office 552 00:19:27,667 --> 00:19:28,417 right now." 553 00:19:28,501 --> 00:19:29,418 <i>And I remember my heart pounding</i> 554 00:19:29,502 --> 00:19:31,420 <i>gong up damn near a sprint.</i> 555 00:19:31,504 --> 00:19:32,254 <i>I opened the door</i> 556 00:19:32,338 --> 00:19:33,631 <i>and I remember seeing three</i> 557 00:19:33,714 --> 00:19:35,067 <i>Pennsylvania State Police Troopers</i> 558 00:19:35,091 --> 00:19:36,676 <i>in uniform sitting in the room.</i> 559 00:19:36,759 --> 00:19:37,635 And I said, You're here to tell me 560 00:19:37,718 --> 00:19:39,220 "about Andrew Bagby, aren't you?" 561 00:19:39,303 --> 00:19:41,055 They asked for us to all to 562 00:19:41,138 --> 00:19:42,598 <i>gather in the conference room,</i> 563 00:19:42,682 --> 00:19:43,557 <i>and they closed the door.</i> 564 00:19:43,641 --> 00:19:44,641 <i>He cleared his throat.</i> 565 00:19:44,809 --> 00:19:45,685 <i>He just walked right up to the podium</i> 566 00:19:45,768 --> 00:19:46,644 and he said- 567 00:19:46,727 --> 00:19:48,062 Andrew Bagby is dead. 568 00:19:49,897 --> 00:19:51,857 "And I said, Well, you don't have to look far." 569 00:19:53,693 --> 00:19:54,933 They're like, What do you mean? 570 00:19:59,365 --> 00:20:00,825 I said, This woman was in town. 571 00:20:02,660 --> 00:20:03,661 "She was here." 572 00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:09,458 I said, "Find her 573 00:20:09,542 --> 00:20:11,062 and I think you'll find who did this." 574 00:20:21,178 --> 00:20:24,515 The summary of the evidence against Shirley Turner. 575 00:20:25,099 --> 00:20:27,077 <i>[Kurt] He was found on the morning of Tuesday, November 6th.</i> 576 00:20:27,101 --> 00:20:28,936 <i>laying behind his car in a parking lot</i> 577 00:20:29,019 --> 00:20:31,731 <i>at Keystone State Park in Derry Township, Pennsylvania.</i> 578 00:20:31,814 --> 00:20:33,232 <i>A man walking through Keystone Park</i> 579 00:20:33,315 --> 00:20:35,985 <i>at 6:10 PM the previous evening, November 5th,</i> 580 00:20:36,068 --> 00:20:37,611 <i>had seen his black Toyota Corolla</i> 581 00:20:37,695 --> 00:20:39,113 <i>park next to an SUV.</i> 582 00:20:39,572 --> 00:20:41,172 <i>This was ten minutes after he told Clark</i> 583 00:20:41,198 --> 00:20:42,342 <i>he was gong to meet Shirley.</i> 584 00:20:42,366 --> 00:20:43,534 Meeting her at six. 585 00:20:43,617 --> 00:20:46,203 <i>[Kurt] Shirley drove a Toyota RAV4 SUV.</i> 586 00:20:46,746 --> 00:20:47,872 <i>He was shot five times:</i> 587 00:20:47,955 --> 00:20:49,498 <i>in the face, the chest,</i> 588 00:20:49,582 --> 00:20:50,499 <i>twice in the buttocks,</i> 589 00:20:50,583 --> 00:20:51,703 <i>and in the back of the head.</i> 590 00:20:51,751 --> 00:20:52,585 <i>He also received a blunt trauma</i> 591 00:20:52,668 --> 00:20:53,419 <i>to the back of the head.</i> 592 00:20:53,502 --> 00:20:54,628 That didn't sound random. 593 00:20:54,712 --> 00:20:56,630 That sounded like rage and vengeance. 594 00:20:56,714 --> 00:20:59,633 <i>[Kurt] The ammunition used was CCl .22 caliber bullets.</i> 595 00:20:59,717 --> 00:21:00,843 <i>There were six spent casings</i> 596 00:21:00,926 --> 00:21:02,845 <i>and one live round on the ground beside him.</i> 597 00:21:02,928 --> 00:21:05,431 <i>Shirley owned a Phoenix Arms .22 caliber handgun.</i> 598 00:21:21,530 --> 00:21:22,591 <i>[Kurt] She had three lessons</i> 599 00:21:22,615 --> 00:21:23,741 <i>with a firearms instructor</i> 600 00:21:23,824 --> 00:21:25,144 <i>who said that at her last lesson,</i> 601 00:21:25,201 --> 00:21:27,787 <i>she was using CCI 22 caliber ammunition</i> 602 00:21:27,870 --> 00:21:29,872 <i>and her gun malfunctioned and would sometimes eject</i> 603 00:21:29,955 --> 00:21:31,582 <i>live rounds onto the ground.</i> 604 00:21:37,963 --> 00:21:39,715 "And she said, No, I can't find it." 605 00:21:46,013 --> 00:21:47,306 And she said, 606 00:21:47,389 --> 00:21:48,933 I gave the gun to Andrew. 607 00:21:49,016 --> 00:21:50,202 <i>[Kurt] She claims she was home sick all day</i> 608 00:21:50,226 --> 00:21:51,477 <i>on Monday, November 5th.</i> 609 00:22:01,779 --> 00:22:03,614 The cell phone records show 610 00:22:03,697 --> 00:22:05,324 that a phone call was made here, 611 00:22:05,407 --> 00:22:06,534 here, here, and here. 612 00:22:06,617 --> 00:22:08,136 <i>[Kurt] While she claims to be home in bed,</i> 613 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,013 <i>she's making cell phone calls from Chicago, Illinois</i> 614 00:22:10,037 --> 00:22:11,622 <i>at 7:08 and 7:10 PM</i> 615 00:22:11,705 --> 00:22:12,998 <i>on Sunday, November 4th,</i> 616 00:22:13,082 --> 00:22:14,583 <i>Then another from South Bend, Indiana</i> 617 00:22:14,667 --> 00:22:16,585 <i>at 10:19 PM that night.</i> 618 00:22:16,669 --> 00:22:18,104 <i>Then another from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania</i> 619 00:22:18,128 --> 00:22:19,630 <i>at 8:07 a.m. the next morning</i> 620 00:22:19,713 --> 00:22:21,423 <i>November 5th, the day he was killed.</i> 621 00:22:21,507 --> 00:22:22,818 <i>She logged onto eBay that morning</i> 622 00:22:22,842 --> 00:22:24,134 <i>from his computer at his house.</i> 623 00:22:24,218 --> 00:22:25,218 And back again. 624 00:22:25,261 --> 00:22:26,846 <i>[Kurt] At 11:26 PM that night,</i> 625 00:22:26,929 --> 00:22:28,681 <i>she makes another call from Cleveland, Ohio</i> 626 00:22:28,764 --> 00:22:30,391 <i>clearly on her way home this time.</i> 627 00:22:30,474 --> 00:22:31,868 <i>Then another call from Stuart, Iowa</i> 628 00:22:31,892 --> 00:22:33,519 <i>at 9:48 AM the next morning</i> 629 00:22:33,602 --> 00:22:34,728 <i>Tuesday, November 6th.</i> 630 00:22:34,812 --> 00:22:35,997 <i>Then another when she got home</i> 631 00:22:36,021 --> 00:22:37,147 <i>to Council Bluffs</i> 632 00:22:37,231 --> 00:22:38,399 <i>and this one's to him.</i> 633 00:22:47,449 --> 00:22:48,885 <i>[Kurt] When she realized that she couldn't possibly</i> 634 00:22:48,909 --> 00:22:50,011 <i>be sick in bed when she'd been caught</i> 635 00:22:50,035 --> 00:22:50,828 <i>making cell phone calls</i> 636 00:22:50,911 --> 00:22:52,162 <i>from Pennsylvania and back,</i> 637 00:22:52,246 --> 00:22:53,163 <i>she changed her story again.</i> 638 00:22:53,247 --> 00:22:54,582 Then she said, 639 00:22:54,665 --> 00:22:55,875 I gave the gun to Andrew 640 00:22:55,958 --> 00:22:57,960 in the parking lot and he- and I saw him 641 00:22:58,043 --> 00:22:59,128 put it in his trunk. 642 00:23:09,471 --> 00:23:10,639 That clearly shows... 643 00:23:11,515 --> 00:23:12,892 if she did this... 644 00:23:13,142 --> 00:23:14,310 she planned it. 645 00:23:14,393 --> 00:23:16,896 She is a manipulative, deceitful, 646 00:23:16,979 --> 00:23:18,147 planner of a murder. 647 00:23:19,940 --> 00:23:20,959 <i>[Kurt] In order to prove her whereabouts</i> 648 00:23:20,983 --> 00:23:22,359 <i>when she made these phone calls,</i> 649 00:23:22,443 --> 00:23:23,736 <i>each individual cell tower</i> 650 00:23:23,819 --> 00:23:26,071 <i>along her 16-hour drive had to be manually checked</i> 651 00:23:26,155 --> 00:23:27,072 <i>which was a process that took</i> 652 00:23:27,156 --> 00:23:28,407 <i>almost two weeks.</i> 653 00:23:28,949 --> 00:23:31,493 <i>While the police were uncovering this crucial piece of evidence,</i> 654 00:23:31,577 --> 00:23:33,078 <i>Shirley left the United States</i> 655 00:23:33,162 --> 00:23:35,122 <i>for her home in Saint John's, Newfoundland.</i> 656 00:23:37,166 --> 00:23:38,667 <i>[David] We were absolutely helpless</i> 657 00:23:38,751 --> 00:23:40,252 <i>for the whole time we were in Latrobe</i> 658 00:23:40,336 --> 00:23:41,503 <i>after this initial...</i> 659 00:23:42,463 --> 00:23:43,464 <i>nightmare.</i> 660 00:23:43,547 --> 00:23:45,299 The other residents and... 661 00:23:46,008 --> 00:23:48,135 Andrew's - well, they're Andrew's friends now, 662 00:23:48,218 --> 00:23:49,303 <i>came in...</i> 663 00:23:49,386 --> 00:23:50,429 <i>sat with us...</i> 664 00:23:50,512 --> 00:23:51,931 <i>brought us meals.</i> 665 00:23:52,014 --> 00:23:53,734 <i>They had a sign-up sheet at the hospital...</i> 666 00:23:54,350 --> 00:23:56,110 <i>to bring us a dinner and sit and cry with us.</i> 667 00:23:56,185 --> 00:23:57,978 <i>And-and, uh...</i> 668 00:23:58,687 --> 00:24:00,189 <i>listen to us, and...</i> 669 00:24:00,981 --> 00:24:01,857 <i>cry some more.</i> 670 00:24:01,941 --> 00:24:03,067 <i>Great people.</i> 671 00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:05,194 <i>[man] I mean, the whole hospital grieved.</i> 672 00:24:05,277 --> 00:24:06,362 <i>It was profound.</i> 673 00:24:06,445 --> 00:24:08,238 <i>Just picture the masses that - that -</i> 674 00:24:08,489 --> 00:24:09,490 <i>that...</i> 675 00:24:09,615 --> 00:24:10,783 <i>that just came out for that.</i> 676 00:24:10,866 --> 00:24:12,493 <i>[man] From memorials in Newfoundland,</i> 677 00:24:12,576 --> 00:24:13,953 <i>to California, to England,</i> 678 00:24:14,036 --> 00:24:15,756 <i>-[Kate] To Saint Louis- -[David] To Latrobe.</i> 679 00:24:15,829 --> 00:24:17,289 So proud to say that I loved him 680 00:24:17,373 --> 00:24:18,832 so very much. 681 00:24:18,916 --> 00:24:20,810 <i>[David] And I'd be happy if I had one-tenth of people</i> 682 00:24:20,834 --> 00:24:23,379 <i>care as one-half about as much they did Andrew.</i> 683 00:24:45,150 --> 00:24:46,211 <i>[woman] Well, I know at the point</i> 684 00:24:46,235 --> 00:24:47,379 <i>that we had the memorial service,</i> 685 00:24:47,403 --> 00:24:48,570 <i>she was back in Canada.</i> 686 00:24:48,654 --> 00:24:50,465 <i>Actually, she was there at the memorial service</i> 687 00:24:50,489 --> 00:24:51,800 - that we had here. - She broke down crying 688 00:24:51,824 --> 00:24:53,534 during the service and... 689 00:24:53,617 --> 00:24:54,994 sobbing really loud and... 690 00:24:56,245 --> 00:24:58,956 you know, I-I wonder if it was all just for show. 691 00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:00,392 <i>[woman] And then fear at that point for,</i> 692 00:25:00,416 --> 00:25:01,959 <i>you know, Heather's safety because-</i> 693 00:25:02,042 --> 00:25:03,919 <i>[Heather] She-she came up and-and sort of...</i> 694 00:25:04,003 --> 00:25:05,671 <i>butted one of my friends out beside me</i> 695 00:25:05,754 --> 00:25:07,172 <i>and said...</i> 696 00:25:07,256 --> 00:25:08,298 <i>just...</i> 697 00:25:08,382 --> 00:25:11,218 <i>awful things and obviously I cared</i> 698 00:25:11,301 --> 00:25:13,637 <i>about a lot more about him than he ever cared about me,</i> 699 00:25:13,721 --> 00:25:15,389 <i>and I definitely wasn't important...</i> 700 00:25:15,472 --> 00:25:16,265 <i>umm...</i> 701 00:25:16,348 --> 00:25:17,266 <i>in his life.</i> 702 00:25:17,349 --> 00:25:19,059 <i>Then, I get an email from Shirley</i> 703 00:25:19,143 --> 00:25:20,602 <i>a horrible, scathing email.</i> 704 00:25:20,686 --> 00:25:22,271 <i>It was all basically I was nothing</i> 705 00:25:22,354 --> 00:25:23,605 <i>and she was everything,</i> 706 00:25:23,689 --> 00:25:25,190 how wonderful their love was 707 00:25:25,274 --> 00:25:27,067 and how that'll never die now. 708 00:25:27,151 --> 00:25:28,878 <i>[Kurt] To try to lure her back to the United States,</i> 709 00:25:28,902 --> 00:25:31,613 <i>Shirley was invited to the memorial service in California,</i> 710 00:25:31,697 --> 00:25:32,906 <i>but she didn’t take the bait.</i> 711 00:25:33,699 --> 00:25:34,867 <i>So finally, she was charged.</i> 712 00:25:35,492 --> 00:25:37,053 <i>She was arrested in Saint John's, Newfoundland,</i> 713 00:25:37,077 --> 00:25:38,662 <i>on December 12, 2001...</i> 714 00:25:39,788 --> 00:25:41,874 <i>and was let go on bail the very same day.</i> 715 00:25:42,291 --> 00:25:43,459 When there's flight risk, 716 00:25:43,542 --> 00:25:44,835 it seemed to me common sense 717 00:25:44,918 --> 00:25:46,587 that if she isn't in the jurisdiction 718 00:25:46,670 --> 00:25:47,546 where they want her, 719 00:25:47,629 --> 00:25:48,629 she's fled. 720 00:25:48,672 --> 00:25:50,072 <i>[Kurt] Crown prosecutor Mike Madden</i> 721 00:25:50,132 --> 00:25:52,051 <i>did not even argue against her release on bail</i> 722 00:25:52,134 --> 00:25:53,278 <i>and instead, entered the courtroom with an agreement</i> 723 00:25:53,302 --> 00:25:55,054 <i>already in place for her release.</i> 724 00:25:55,137 --> 00:25:57,073 <i>Pending the next hearing in the extradition process</i> 725 00:25:57,097 --> 00:25:58,974 <i>to the United States, all Justice David Russell</i> 726 00:25:59,058 --> 00:26:01,018 <i>required Shirley to do was...</i> [cha-ching] 727 00:26:01,101 --> 00:26:03,520 <i>Post $75,000 in sureties.</i> 728 00:26:03,604 --> 00:26:05,147 <i>$65,000 of this was posted by</i> 729 00:26:05,230 --> 00:26:07,524 <i>her personal psychiatrist, but I'll come back to him.</i> 730 00:26:07,608 --> 00:26:08,692 <i>Turn in her passports,</i> 731 00:26:08,776 --> 00:26:09,651 <i>sign-in once a week</i> 732 00:26:09,735 --> 00:26:10,861 <i>at the local police station,</i> 733 00:26:10,944 --> 00:26:12,738 <i>promise not to leave Newfoundland,</i> 734 00:26:12,821 --> 00:26:14,656 <i>and avoid contact with these people.</i> 735 00:26:14,740 --> 00:26:15,783 <i>And with that,</i> 736 00:26:16,241 --> 00:26:17,927 <i>the government of Canada let a probable premeditated</i> 737 00:26:17,951 --> 00:26:20,079 <i>first-degree murderer walk the streets.</i> 738 00:26:20,621 --> 00:26:21,705 I thought it was crazy. 739 00:26:21,789 --> 00:26:23,540 Should never be, should never have been. 740 00:26:23,624 --> 00:26:24,875 I thought it was insane. 741 00:26:24,958 --> 00:26:26,668 Who the hell is the system protecting? 742 00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:27,669 <i>[Kurt] I could not believe</i> 743 00:26:27,753 --> 00:26:28,837 <i>this was happening.</i> 744 00:26:29,463 --> 00:26:30,964 <i>But the most unbelievable part</i> 745 00:26:31,048 --> 00:26:32,108 <i>was when we found out about you.</i> 746 00:26:32,132 --> 00:26:33,300 [beep] 747 00:26:33,383 --> 00:26:34,134 <i>[Matt over phone] Kurt, this is</i> 748 00:26:34,218 --> 00:26:35,302 <i>Matt Unger.</i> 749 00:26:35,385 --> 00:26:37,304 <i>I just got a call from Mrs. Bagby.</i> 750 00:26:37,387 --> 00:26:39,181 <i>The abbreviated version is...</i> 751 00:26:39,264 --> 00:26:42,309 <i>Fletcher Bucket, that bitch, uh...</i> 752 00:26:42,392 --> 00:26:43,894 <i>held a press conference and announced</i> 753 00:26:43,977 --> 00:26:45,038 <i>that she's four months pregnant</i> 754 00:26:45,062 --> 00:26:46,146 <i>with Andrew's baby.</i> 755 00:26:47,189 --> 00:26:48,792 <i>They can't prove it until the child’s born.</i> 756 00:26:48,816 --> 00:26:50,150 <i>[inhales deeply]</i> 757 00:26:50,234 --> 00:26:52,778 <i>If it is true, the Bagby's are going to sue for custody.</i> 758 00:26:56,073 --> 00:26:57,953 <i>[Kurt] My movie now took on a whole new meaning.</i> 759 00:26:57,991 --> 00:26:59,535 <i>It was no longer just my search</i> 760 00:26:59,618 --> 00:27:00,911 <i>for what was left of your dad.</i> 761 00:27:00,994 --> 00:27:02,704 <i>It might be the only way you could one day</i> 762 00:27:02,788 --> 00:27:04,748 <i>go back in time, see, and get to know him.</i> 763 00:27:04,832 --> 00:27:06,834 This is a time machine. 764 00:27:07,709 --> 00:27:09,253 Yes, a time machine. 765 00:27:09,336 --> 00:27:11,064 <i>[Kurt]And I vowed to collect every memory for you</i> 766 00:27:11,088 --> 00:27:12,422 <i>before they were gone.</i> 767 00:27:12,506 --> 00:27:14,007 <i>So finally, I set off.</i> 768 00:27:14,091 --> 00:27:15,592 <i>First, I would go to England</i> 769 00:27:15,676 --> 00:27:17,320 <i>to interview your grandma's side of the family for you.</i> 770 00:27:17,344 --> 00:27:19,388 <i>Then, I'd return to the U.S. to do an epic road trip</i> 771 00:27:19,471 --> 00:27:20,806 <i>across North America.</i> 772 00:27:20,889 --> 00:27:22,808 <i>I'd start on the west coast of California</i> 773 00:27:22,891 --> 00:27:24,285 <i>and motor East, stopping to interview</i> 774 00:27:24,309 --> 00:27:26,645 <i>all of your dad's friends and family along the way,</i> 775 00:27:26,728 --> 00:27:28,772 <i>and I would keep driving until the land ran out</i> 776 00:27:28,856 --> 00:27:30,566 <i>in Saint John's, Newfoundland,</i> 777 00:27:30,649 --> 00:27:32,860 <i>the Eastern-most point in all of North America</i> 778 00:27:32,943 --> 00:27:35,154 <i>where the last living piece of Andrew,</i> 779 00:27:35,237 --> 00:27:37,364 <i>you, would be waiting for me.</i> 780 00:27:37,447 --> 00:27:38,767 <i>I grabbed a digital video camera,</i> 781 00:27:38,824 --> 00:27:40,367 <i>a 16-millimeter wind-up movie camera,</i> 782 00:27:40,450 --> 00:27:41,326 <i>and an old Nikon...</i> 783 00:27:41,410 --> 00:27:42,744 I have a good idea. 784 00:27:42,828 --> 00:27:44,955 I'll go back in time and stop you from dying. 785 00:27:45,038 --> 00:27:46,623 <i>[Kurt]And set off on a quest</i> 786 00:27:46,707 --> 00:27:48,458 <i>to bring your dad back to life.</i> 787 00:27:48,542 --> 00:27:50,627 <i>And while I raced to rescue your history,</i> 788 00:27:50,711 --> 00:27:52,311 <i>your grandma and grandpa quit their jobs,</i> 789 00:27:52,337 --> 00:27:54,590 <i>dug into their savings, and gave up everything</i> 790 00:27:54,673 --> 00:27:57,134 <i>to move to Newfoundland to fight for your future.</i> 791 00:27:59,344 --> 00:28:00,762 <i>[Jackie] I met Kate and David</i> 792 00:28:00,846 --> 00:28:03,640 <i>in the spring of 2002.</i> 793 00:28:03,724 --> 00:28:04,641 <i>I'll never forget it.</i> 794 00:28:04,725 --> 00:28:07,102 <i>They needed a lawyer to assist them</i> 795 00:28:07,186 --> 00:28:09,479 <i>in making sure that their rights and the baby's rights</i> 796 00:28:09,563 --> 00:28:10,856 <i>were protected, I guess.</i> 797 00:28:10,939 --> 00:28:13,442 I instantly liked them. 798 00:28:13,525 --> 00:28:15,027 I thought that it was so important 799 00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:15,986 that they have a relationship 800 00:28:16,069 --> 00:28:16,987 with that child. 801 00:28:17,070 --> 00:28:18,655 <i>[David] Our lawyer, Jackie, went to see</i> 802 00:28:18,739 --> 00:28:20,908 <i>Betty Day, an administrator</i> 803 00:28:20,991 --> 00:28:23,702 <i>somewhere in the hierarchy of Child Protective Services</i> 804 00:28:23,785 --> 00:28:26,705 and told her that we, the Bagbys, 805 00:28:26,788 --> 00:28:29,791 are concerned about the safety of the baby... 806 00:28:30,542 --> 00:28:32,502 because the mother is accused 807 00:28:32,586 --> 00:28:34,046 of a premeditated murder. 808 00:28:34,129 --> 00:28:35,714 To me, I thought they were very 809 00:28:35,797 --> 00:28:38,717 emotionally intelligent in how they were... 810 00:28:39,885 --> 00:28:43,055 bearing up under all of this incredible stress. 811 00:28:43,138 --> 00:28:44,782 Uh, you know, they had- that was a Sunday afternoon. 812 00:28:44,806 --> 00:28:46,808 The next morning, they had to sit in the court room 813 00:28:46,892 --> 00:28:48,060 and look at her. 814 00:28:50,062 --> 00:28:51,080 <i>[Kurt] When your grandma and grandpa</i> 815 00:28:51,104 --> 00:28:52,272 <i>first arrived in Canada,</i> 816 00:28:52,356 --> 00:28:54,608 <i>they were told the law is slow.</i> 817 00:28:54,691 --> 00:28:55,692 <i>And they weren't kidding.</i> 818 00:28:55,776 --> 00:28:57,527 <i>February 15th, prosecutor Mike Madden</i> 819 00:28:57,611 --> 00:28:59,088 <i>acknowledged that the extradition request</i> 820 00:28:59,112 --> 00:29:00,030 <i>had been received.</i> 821 00:29:00,113 --> 00:29:01,657 <i>They adjourned until March 11th,</i> 822 00:29:01,740 --> 00:29:03,593 <i>when they decided they'd reconvene to select a date</i> 823 00:29:03,617 --> 00:29:05,744 <i>for the extradition hearing on March 25th,</i> 824 00:29:05,827 --> 00:29:07,055 <i>where they decided to set the date</i> 825 00:29:07,079 --> 00:29:08,997 <i>for the extradition hearing for May 27th,</i> 826 00:29:09,081 --> 00:29:10,433 <i>where they got caught-up debating the French</i> 827 00:29:10,457 --> 00:29:11,583 <i>versus English translations</i> 828 00:29:11,667 --> 00:29:13,335 <i>of section 32 of the Extradition Act,</i> 829 00:29:13,418 --> 00:29:14,628 <i>and decided to adjourn</i> 830 00:29:14,711 --> 00:29:16,713 <i>for a specific translation until June 11th,</i> 831 00:29:16,797 --> 00:29:17,941 <i>a hearing which lasted five minutes,</i> 832 00:29:17,965 --> 00:29:19,299 <i>at which Judge Derek Greene said</i> 833 00:29:19,383 --> 00:29:20,568 <i>he wasn't in a position to rule</i> 834 00:29:20,592 --> 00:29:21,778 <i>on the translation and they would</i> 835 00:29:21,802 --> 00:29:23,387 <i>adjourn again until July 30th.</i> 836 00:29:24,805 --> 00:29:26,139 <i>And while they waited for justice,</i> 837 00:29:26,223 --> 00:29:27,766 <i>and for you to arrive,</i> 838 00:29:27,849 --> 00:29:29,559 <i>your grandma and grandpa made a new home</i> 839 00:29:29,643 --> 00:29:30,978 <i>and new friends.</i> 840 00:29:31,061 --> 00:29:32,455 <i>[Chris] They made friends all over Saint John's.</i> 841 00:29:32,479 --> 00:29:33,790 <i>Uh, people in the legal community,</i> 842 00:29:33,814 --> 00:29:35,399 <i>the medical community.</i> 843 00:29:35,482 --> 00:29:36,400 But here at St. Michael's, 844 00:29:36,483 --> 00:29:38,002 yeah, they-they made-they got their- 845 00:29:38,026 --> 00:29:40,070 they got right in there and got right involved. 846 00:29:40,737 --> 00:29:42,006 It seems like they've always been here. 847 00:29:42,030 --> 00:29:43,174 Basically, they have more friends 848 00:29:43,198 --> 00:29:44,574 in Newfoundland now than we do. 849 00:29:44,658 --> 00:29:46,177 <i>[Ian] Well, ít's a very small Province,</i> 850 00:29:46,201 --> 00:29:48,912 <i>you know, the land mass is as big as, uh,</i> 851 00:29:48,996 --> 00:29:50,789 <i>well, maybe not quite as big as California</i> 852 00:29:50,872 --> 00:29:52,416 but not far off. 853 00:29:52,833 --> 00:29:56,128 And yet, we only have 530,000 population 854 00:29:56,211 --> 00:29:57,713 scattered over that land mass. 855 00:29:57,796 --> 00:29:58,982 <i>[man] You can't go anywhere in St. John's</i> 856 00:29:59,006 --> 00:30:00,441 <i>without running into somebody you know.</i> 857 00:30:00,465 --> 00:30:02,193 <i>[man] I mean, ít's the oldest city in North America.</i> 858 00:30:02,217 --> 00:30:04,219 <i>It's a very safe place, I think.</i> 859 00:30:04,303 --> 00:30:06,305 The big, uh, drawback against living here 860 00:30:06,388 --> 00:30:07,388 is getting out of here. 861 00:30:07,431 --> 00:30:09,182 The weather here is terrible. 862 00:30:09,266 --> 00:30:11,268 The weather is-is awful. 863 00:30:11,351 --> 00:30:13,413 We have eight months of winter and four months of bad weather. 864 00:30:13,437 --> 00:30:15,477 And the other con- very consistent thing that I hear 865 00:30:15,522 --> 00:30:16,922 is that the people are so friendly. 866 00:30:16,982 --> 00:30:18,584 [man] How would you, uh, describe them to someone 867 00:30:18,608 --> 00:30:19,808 who had never met them before? 868 00:30:20,402 --> 00:30:21,695 Do you have an hour? 869 00:30:21,778 --> 00:30:23,738 I was hoping you would ask me about Kate and David 870 00:30:23,780 --> 00:30:25,741 <i>-who are very- -[man] Young at heart.</i> 871 00:30:26,450 --> 00:30:27,450 Childish. 872 00:30:27,492 --> 00:30:28,532 That's not the right word. 873 00:30:28,785 --> 00:30:30,471 He's an engineer in the truest sense of the word. 874 00:30:30,495 --> 00:30:31,997 The guy likes Pintos, okay? 875 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:33,080 <i>[women] Logical.</i> 876 00:30:33,123 --> 00:30:35,584 Does thing in steps, logical steps. 877 00:30:35,667 --> 00:30:39,338 <i>Comparing Andrew as a teenager and Dave as a teenager,</i> 878 00:30:39,421 --> 00:30:40,422 <i>they're almost twins.</i> 879 00:30:40,505 --> 00:30:41,590 <i>[man] He's an older model.</i> 880 00:30:41,673 --> 00:30:43,342 - Wonderful. - Wonderful. 881 00:30:43,425 --> 00:30:44,777 <i>[Clark] He always calls you "mate."</i> 882 00:30:44,801 --> 00:30:46,136 His father does "mate." 883 00:30:46,219 --> 00:30:47,220 "Hello, mate." 884 00:30:48,013 --> 00:30:49,931 And Kate calls you "love." 885 00:30:50,015 --> 00:30:51,767 <i>[woman] Oh, I thought she was, um, feisty.</i> 886 00:30:51,850 --> 00:30:53,101 <i>Like a little ball of fire.</i> 887 00:30:53,185 --> 00:30:55,354 She's so tiny and then big things come out of her. 888 00:30:55,437 --> 00:30:56,980 <i>It's great that she's on your side,</i> 889 00:30:57,064 --> 00:30:59,167 because she'll always stand up for what she believes in 890 00:30:59,191 --> 00:31:00,191 and those that she loves. 891 00:31:00,233 --> 00:31:01,360 <i>[woman] They're a rare pair.</i> 892 00:31:03,487 --> 00:31:04,696 <i>They were from the start.</i> 893 00:31:06,323 --> 00:31:07,991 In itself, it's quite a- 894 00:31:08,075 --> 00:31:09,355 story, their marriage, you know. 895 00:31:10,494 --> 00:31:12,138 <i>[Kate] I was gong to come here, you know, for the two years</i> 896 00:31:12,162 --> 00:31:13,848 <i>and I was gong on to Australia for two years,</i> 897 00:31:13,872 --> 00:31:15,415 <i>work my way around the world,</i> 898 00:31:15,499 --> 00:31:16,642 <i>and then I was gong back to Devon.</i> 899 00:31:16,666 --> 00:31:18,126 <i>And wasn't gong to get married</i> 900 00:31:18,210 --> 00:31:20,104 <i>because that was not on my list of things to do at all.</i> 901 00:31:20,128 --> 00:31:21,505 <i>[David] I was in the Navy</i> 902 00:31:21,588 --> 00:31:23,465 <i>stationed on an aircraft carrier, the Hornet,</i> 903 00:31:23,548 --> 00:31:24,800 <i>in Long Beach, California.</i> 904 00:31:24,883 --> 00:31:26,802 <i>A guy came into the shop one day,</i> 905 00:31:26,885 --> 00:31:29,238 <i>into the electronic shop, and said he had two English nurses</i> 906 00:31:29,262 --> 00:31:30,281 <i>who wanted to go to Disney Land.</i> 907 00:31:30,305 --> 00:31:31,681 We were too cheap to pay the fare. 908 00:31:31,765 --> 00:31:34,684 Yeah, two cheap English nurses and I took the little one... 909 00:31:36,061 --> 00:31:38,146 and left him with the tall one, 910 00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:39,439 and uh... 911 00:31:39,940 --> 00:31:41,900 they didn't work out so well, but we did. 912 00:31:41,983 --> 00:31:44,611 We went out 13 times in the first two weeks. 913 00:31:44,694 --> 00:31:46,047 And he could quote Shakespeare by the way, 914 00:31:46,071 --> 00:31:47,864 so I knew it was all right. 915 00:31:47,948 --> 00:31:49,408 <i>Five months later, I'm married.</i> 916 00:31:49,491 --> 00:31:51,827 <i>[David] And we moved down to San Diego and started</i> 917 00:31:51,910 --> 00:31:53,620 working on a baby, but nothing happened. 918 00:31:53,703 --> 00:31:54,746 [laughs] 919 00:31:55,247 --> 00:31:57,332 <i>You know, we tried-tried to get pregnant for a year?</i> 920 00:31:57,416 --> 00:31:58,792 <i>Two years with no result.</i> 921 00:31:58,875 --> 00:32:00,419 <i>At some point, uh...</i> 922 00:32:00,502 --> 00:32:03,672 <i>they mentioned that they might adopt, and then, I mean,</i> 923 00:32:03,755 --> 00:32:04,881 it was... 924 00:32:05,632 --> 00:32:06,734 you know, it was like a miracle. 925 00:32:06,758 --> 00:32:08,927 Coming to St. Louis and sleeping in... 926 00:32:09,010 --> 00:32:12,097 my mother's uh bedroom seemed to make people pregnant. 927 00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:13,950 <i>[Kate] And then, of course, Andrew didn't come.</i> 928 00:32:13,974 --> 00:32:15,100 <i>He was two weeks late.</i> 929 00:32:15,183 --> 00:32:16,743 <i>Things people should know about Andrew:</i> 930 00:32:17,018 --> 00:32:17,936 he was never late. 931 00:32:18,019 --> 00:32:20,772 <i>♪ Orchestral music ♪</i> 932 00:32:42,377 --> 00:32:43,503 [beep] 933 00:32:43,587 --> 00:32:44,379 <i>[Heather over phone] Hey, ít's Heather.</i> 934 00:32:44,463 --> 00:32:46,214 <i>It's nine o'clock, Thursday.</i> 935 00:32:46,298 --> 00:32:48,884 <i>Shirley went into labor around three o'clock in the afternoon</i> 936 00:32:48,967 --> 00:32:50,135 <i>on Newfoundland time.</i> 937 00:32:50,969 --> 00:32:53,138 <i>[Kurt] On July 18th, 2002...</i> 938 00:32:53,847 --> 00:32:54,848 <i>you were born.</i> 939 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,767 <i>Shirley named you Zachary Andrew Turner.</i> 940 00:32:59,102 --> 00:33:01,342 <i>Your grandma and grandpa came to the hospital to see you,</i> 941 00:33:01,396 --> 00:33:03,148 <i>but Shirley wouldn't let them in the door.</i> 942 00:33:03,690 --> 00:33:06,170 <i>They stood five feet away from you on the other side of a wall.</i> 943 00:33:08,111 --> 00:33:09,404 <i>They left a gift for you.</i> 944 00:33:15,702 --> 00:33:18,371 <i>[John] Well, your dad was an amazing person.</i> 945 00:33:18,455 --> 00:33:20,665 <i>You're gong to get such a broad range...</i> 946 00:33:21,249 --> 00:33:23,460 <i>of different perspectives of this guy.</i> 947 00:33:23,919 --> 00:33:25,795 You're gonna know what his character was like. 948 00:33:25,879 --> 00:33:27,519 You will know what fun he was to be with. 949 00:33:28,006 --> 00:33:29,049 Um... 950 00:33:29,466 --> 00:33:31,235 And you're going to know that you can be proud of him. 951 00:33:31,259 --> 00:33:32,653 <i>[Kurt] I flew to England to collect the memories</i> 952 00:33:32,677 --> 00:33:34,596 <i>of your grandma's side of the family for you</i> 953 00:33:34,679 --> 00:33:37,015 <i>and arrived just in time for a very special occasion.</i> 954 00:33:37,098 --> 00:33:39,184 Well, we're on the eve of my wedding, for a start. 955 00:33:39,267 --> 00:33:40,060 <i>It's been a bit hectic.</i> 956 00:33:40,143 --> 00:33:42,145 <i>We're just trying to fit this interview in between</i> 957 00:33:42,229 --> 00:33:43,396 <i>all of the preparations.</i> 958 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:44,790 [Kurt] Your dad crossed the Atlantic to come here 959 00:33:44,814 --> 00:33:46,417 <i>almost every summer, but instead of heading</i> 960 00:33:46,441 --> 00:33:48,944 <i>to the tourist attractions in London, like everyone else,</i> 961 00:33:49,027 --> 00:33:50,946 <i>he'd head to the outskirts to spend time</i> 962 00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:53,365 <i>with his grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins.</i> 963 00:33:53,448 --> 00:33:54,574 He was a king to me, man. 964 00:33:54,658 --> 00:33:55,992 Seriously, man. 965 00:33:56,076 --> 00:33:57,845 <i>[Kurt]And in particular, with his cousin, John.</i> 966 00:33:57,869 --> 00:33:59,805 The main thing, I guess, about being an only child 967 00:33:59,829 --> 00:34:02,666 is that I get to choose my brothers. 968 00:34:02,749 --> 00:34:04,167 Others of you don't. 969 00:34:04,918 --> 00:34:05,669 Sorry. 970 00:34:05,752 --> 00:34:07,337 John, me brother, and Andrew, 971 00:34:07,420 --> 00:34:08,689 born within a month from each other. 972 00:34:08,713 --> 00:34:10,107 <i>In fact, I think it was about 30 seconds</i> 973 00:34:10,131 --> 00:34:11,192 <i>of, like, the normal child.</i> 974 00:34:11,216 --> 00:34:12,551 "Who are you?" "Who are you?" 975 00:34:12,634 --> 00:34:14,678 <i>And then suddenly, snap, that was it.</i> 976 00:34:14,761 --> 00:34:16,304 We often said, 977 00:34:16,388 --> 00:34:19,057 "Well, least I would have each other through life." 978 00:34:19,140 --> 00:34:22,143 <i>John would have Andrew, and Andrew would always have John.</i> 979 00:34:22,227 --> 00:34:24,121 <i>[John] For me, it kind of blurred into this kind of haze</i> 980 00:34:24,145 --> 00:34:27,482 <i>of me and Andrew running around castles, country homes,</i> 981 00:34:27,566 --> 00:34:31,236 <i>ardens, I mean, these fantastic, you know, historical places.</i> 982 00:34:31,319 --> 00:34:33,738 <i>And to us, they were places to play hide and seek,</i> 983 00:34:33,822 --> 00:34:35,657 <i>buy water pistols, shoot each other,</i> 984 00:34:35,740 --> 00:34:36,926 and then get told off and thrown out. 985 00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:38,827 <i>The interest in all this thing always was</i> 986 00:34:38,910 --> 00:34:40,829 <i>just, like, the cultural differences between</i> 987 00:34:40,912 --> 00:34:42,622 <i>someone who'd come from the US</i> 988 00:34:42,706 --> 00:34:44,207 <i>and someone in the UK, you know,</i> 989 00:34:44,291 --> 00:34:45,851 that would used to really bug me, the fact that I knew 990 00:34:45,875 --> 00:34:47,103 he was going to get <i>Star Wars,</i> you know, 991 00:34:47,127 --> 00:34:48,287 kind of six months before me. 992 00:34:48,336 --> 00:34:49,671 That was a killer... 993 00:34:50,088 --> 00:34:51,357 because you know, it would be like, you know, 994 00:34:51,381 --> 00:34:53,800 "Don't you dare tell me anything about this one." 995 00:34:53,883 --> 00:34:55,486 <i>He was almost kind of as well my kind of...</i> 996 00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:57,429 <i>the chaperoning to...</i> 997 00:34:57,512 --> 00:34:59,055 <i>discovering the U.S., really.</i> 998 00:34:59,139 --> 00:35:00,866 <i>You hear people discriminate against a whole country</i> 999 00:35:00,890 --> 00:35:02,267 <i>just in one fell swoop.</i> 1000 00:35:02,350 --> 00:35:03,536 You know, but I was fortunate enough enough to know 1001 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:04,811 very differently to that. 1002 00:35:05,228 --> 00:35:08,648 <i>[Andrew] I really cherish that because...</i> 1003 00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:12,986 <i>it is my brother that got married here tonight.</i> 1004 00:35:13,069 --> 00:35:14,589 Bizarrely enough, one of the things is I always wanted 1005 00:35:14,613 --> 00:35:16,740 Andrew be my best man at my wedding 1006 00:35:16,823 --> 00:35:18,926 <i>[Kurt] As I would soon find out, he was in good company.</i> 1007 00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:20,511 I had always wanted him to be my best man. 1008 00:35:20,535 --> 00:35:21,953 I'd ask him to be my best man. 1009 00:35:22,037 --> 00:35:24,080 It just made sense to have him as best man. 1010 00:35:24,164 --> 00:35:26,166 I can only assume that you would have asked him 1011 00:35:26,249 --> 00:35:27,125 to be your best man. 1012 00:35:27,208 --> 00:35:28,335 Everybody, grab your glass. 1013 00:35:28,418 --> 00:35:29,979 We're gonna turn over to the best man, Andrew. 1014 00:35:30,003 --> 00:35:32,189 "Best man" is a little bit of a poor title for these things. 1015 00:35:32,213 --> 00:35:33,923 I mean the best man is really the groom. 1016 00:35:34,007 --> 00:35:37,385 I've got to try and sum up 20-some odd years in... 1017 00:35:38,219 --> 00:35:40,013 like, two minutes or so because, you know, 1018 00:35:40,096 --> 00:35:41,657 then people will start looking at their champagne 1019 00:35:41,681 --> 00:35:43,350 and thinking, "Bagby, shut up or die." 1020 00:35:43,433 --> 00:35:44,976 - [laughter] - [Andrew] Umm... 1021 00:35:48,188 --> 00:35:49,356 I- I- 1022 00:35:53,026 --> 00:35:54,986 I miss him... 1023 00:35:55,070 --> 00:35:56,446 a lot. [sniffles] 1024 00:35:57,447 --> 00:35:59,032 Umm... [sniffles] 1025 00:36:02,535 --> 00:36:05,163 <i>That I wish he was...</i> 1026 00:36:05,914 --> 00:36:09,042 <i>here at the wedding with us- [sniffles]</i> 1027 00:36:09,125 --> 00:36:14,130 <i>I'd just like to just sit down and talk to him again.</i> 1028 00:36:14,923 --> 00:36:17,175 <i>Just to have him here with us.</i> 1029 00:36:18,343 --> 00:36:21,179 <i>[Kurt] I really believe your dad was there that day</i> 1030 00:36:21,262 --> 00:36:23,062 <i>and if we could have heard him give his toast,</i> 1031 00:36:23,098 --> 00:36:24,849 <i>it might have sounded something like this.</i> 1032 00:36:24,933 --> 00:36:26,851 <i>[Andrew] Why am I standing up here?</i> 1033 00:36:27,477 --> 00:36:29,062 I guess part of it, I've already said. 1034 00:36:29,145 --> 00:36:32,482 Uh, we're brothers and I love you. 1035 00:36:32,565 --> 00:36:36,945 And I know you love me and, uh... 1036 00:36:37,028 --> 00:36:39,781 Yeah, I-I kind of need to move on from that, 1037 00:36:39,864 --> 00:36:42,450 because like I said I'm a Bagby male. 1038 00:36:42,534 --> 00:36:44,327 We don't-we don't gush very much. 1039 00:36:49,582 --> 00:36:50,917 It made me realize that... 1040 00:36:52,335 --> 00:36:54,170 it doesn't matter where you come from. 1041 00:36:54,254 --> 00:36:58,633 <i>You can meet someone and literally, with in minutes,</i> 1042 00:36:58,717 --> 00:37:02,011 <i>you can be closer than someone you've known for 20 years</i> 1043 00:37:02,095 --> 00:37:03,447 <i>and someone who may just end up being as a friend</i> 1044 00:37:03,471 --> 00:37:04,305 <i>for rest of your life.</i> 1045 00:37:04,389 --> 00:37:05,890 [man] And last question: 1046 00:37:05,974 --> 00:37:07,785 Is there anything you'd like to say to Zachary? 1047 00:37:07,809 --> 00:37:11,855 Zachary-[laughs] right, uh... 1048 00:37:11,938 --> 00:37:13,314 I, uh, yeah, 1049 00:37:13,398 --> 00:37:15,525 I hope to see you soon, Zachary. 1050 00:37:15,608 --> 00:37:16,693 Anyway... 1051 00:37:17,736 --> 00:37:18,862 [page turning] 1052 00:37:19,237 --> 00:37:20,965 <i>[Kate] Jackie had been down earlier in the day</i> 1053 00:37:20,989 --> 00:37:23,867 <i>to file the papers that we wanted custody of the baby.</i> 1054 00:37:23,950 --> 00:37:25,869 We finally went to court because we- 1055 00:37:25,952 --> 00:37:27,912 - You mean family court? - Yes, in family court. 1056 00:37:27,996 --> 00:37:30,540 You know, they - they negotiated with her. 1057 00:37:30,623 --> 00:37:33,126 I think, you know that already and - and what access they got 1058 00:37:33,209 --> 00:37:34,711 with Shirley, they negotiated. 1059 00:37:34,794 --> 00:37:36,394 <i>[Kate] We were coming up with agreements</i> 1060 00:37:36,463 --> 00:37:37,940 <i>with this accused murderer, and the Shirley Turner came up with</i> 1061 00:37:37,964 --> 00:37:39,284 <i>something else just at the moment</i> 1062 00:37:39,340 --> 00:37:40,967 <i>when it was all looking good.</i> 1063 00:37:41,050 --> 00:37:42,886 <i>She always did that so that it was extended.</i> 1064 00:37:42,969 --> 00:37:44,889 <i>It was like, "I don't have to pay for my lawyer.</i> 1065 00:37:44,929 --> 00:37:45,969 You have to pay for yours. 1066 00:37:46,014 --> 00:37:47,734 So the longer I could make it, it's better. 1067 00:37:47,766 --> 00:37:49,267 You know, you'll run out of money." 1068 00:37:49,350 --> 00:37:51,978 But then she finally agreed to give us one hour a week... 1069 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,063 <i>in unified family court.</i> 1070 00:37:54,147 --> 00:37:55,750 <i>[Kurt] Shirley delayed your grandma and grandpa</i> 1071 00:37:55,774 --> 00:37:57,126 <i>from meeting you for almost a month</i> 1072 00:37:57,150 --> 00:37:58,502 <i>and had them treated like common criminals</i> 1073 00:37:58,526 --> 00:37:59,778 <i>in order to see you.</i> 1074 00:37:59,861 --> 00:38:01,547 <i>She required that during their one-hour visit,</i> 1075 00:38:01,571 --> 00:38:03,990 <i>they be fully searched and monitored by a supervisor</i> 1076 00:38:04,073 --> 00:38:06,201 <i>while she waited in the next room.</i> 1077 00:38:06,284 --> 00:38:07,636 <i>[man] When did you first meet him?</i> 1078 00:38:07,660 --> 00:38:10,330 Meet him personally or meet him by seeing the light 1079 00:38:10,413 --> 00:38:11,998 in Kate and David's eyes? 1080 00:38:12,081 --> 00:38:13,267 <i>[Kate] I mean we were searched and everything.</i> 1081 00:38:13,291 --> 00:38:14,751 <i>I couldn't wait for him to search.</i> 1082 00:38:14,834 --> 00:38:16,795 I would have zipped off all my clothes and be... 1083 00:38:16,878 --> 00:38:18,647 as long as I could get to that baby, you know? 1084 00:38:18,671 --> 00:38:20,632 We went around the corner and there was this... 1085 00:38:20,715 --> 00:38:22,675 overpowering thing that- [gasps] 1086 00:38:41,236 --> 00:38:44,030 [David] We did not do complete tug-of-war, though. 1087 00:38:44,113 --> 00:38:45,273 - [Kate] No. - [David] I just... 1088 00:38:45,824 --> 00:38:47,158 gave him to Kate. [laughs] 1089 00:38:47,242 --> 00:38:48,660 No, no, we shared. 1090 00:38:48,743 --> 00:38:49,783 <i>[David] No, we took turns.</i> 1091 00:38:49,828 --> 00:38:51,162 <i>The next visit, he was really-</i> 1092 00:38:51,246 --> 00:38:52,598 <i>[Kate] The next time he was dirty,</i> 1093 00:38:52,622 --> 00:38:55,208 <i>so I changed his diaper and that's when he opened his eyes</i> 1094 00:38:55,291 --> 00:38:56,417 <i>to just kind of look at me,</i> 1095 00:38:56,501 --> 00:38:57,377 <i>and that's when I said to David,</i> 1096 00:38:57,460 --> 00:38:58,628 <i>"Oh my God, he's Andrew."</i> 1097 00:38:58,711 --> 00:39:00,689 <i>[Jackie] I had seen lots of pictures of Andrew at this point</i> 1098 00:39:00,713 --> 00:39:02,358 <i>and even, you know, pictures of him as a child</i> 1099 00:39:02,382 --> 00:39:03,716 and I thought... 1100 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,261 "Holy crow," you know, "there's no doubt." 1101 00:39:06,344 --> 00:39:07,929 [Kate] We wanted more time. 1102 00:39:08,012 --> 00:39:10,431 <i>So we went back, and this time, she accused us</i> 1103 00:39:10,515 --> 00:39:13,059 <i>of keeping him beyond the time</i> 1104 00:39:13,142 --> 00:39:15,079 <i>so that he was distraught when he went back to her.</i> 1105 00:39:15,103 --> 00:39:18,481 She'd try a lot of manipulations without thinking them through 1106 00:39:18,565 --> 00:39:21,860 and this one was, you know, a no-brainier really. 1107 00:39:21,943 --> 00:39:27,031 If she accuses us of doing anything wrong to the baby... 1108 00:39:27,115 --> 00:39:31,327 were she's indirectly accusing Marine of being a slouch. 1109 00:39:31,411 --> 00:39:32,888 <i>- [man] The supervisor? - The supervisor.</i> 1110 00:39:32,912 --> 00:39:34,706 <i>You know, Marine’s not gong to take that.</i> 1111 00:39:35,123 --> 00:39:36,666 <i>So she just didn’t think it through.</i> 1112 00:39:36,749 --> 00:39:38,269 <i>[Kurt] While your grandparents and Jackie</i> 1113 00:39:38,293 --> 00:39:40,312 <i>battled Shirley for more time with you in family court,</i> 1114 00:39:40,336 --> 00:39:42,839 <i>the law in the extradition proceedings was still slow.</i> 1115 00:39:42,922 --> 00:39:44,942 <i>September 19th, the extradition hearing finally began</i> 1116 00:39:44,966 --> 00:39:47,051 <i>and evidence was finally presented.</i> 1117 00:39:47,135 --> 00:39:48,988 <i>But just as everything was moving along smoothly</i> 1118 00:39:49,012 --> 00:39:51,452 <i>Shirley’s lawyer, Randy Pearcy, threw a wrench into the works.</i> 1119 00:39:51,514 --> 00:39:53,933 <i>Because the authority to proceed with these hearings</i> 1120 00:39:54,017 --> 00:39:55,870 <i>provided by the Minister of Justice early that year</i> 1121 00:39:55,894 --> 00:39:58,229 <i>had failed to specify subsections one or two</i> 1122 00:39:58,313 --> 00:40:00,231 <i>of section 229(a) of the criminal code,</i> 1123 00:40:00,315 --> 00:40:02,108 <i>the authority to proceed was invalid,</i> 1124 00:40:02,191 --> 00:40:04,652 <i>the 90-day limit to amend it was now past, and therefore,</i> 1125 00:40:04,736 --> 00:40:06,487 <i>all extradition proceedings against Shirley</i> 1126 00:40:06,571 --> 00:40:08,698 <i>should be dropped so she can get on with her life.</i> 1127 00:40:09,741 --> 00:40:11,781 <i>Judge Derek Greene now had to rule on whether or not</i> 1128 00:40:11,826 --> 00:40:13,846 <i>to throw out the entire case, which would take place</i> 1129 00:40:13,870 --> 00:40:16,247 <i>on October 18th, which was delayed four days</i> 1130 00:40:16,331 --> 00:40:18,625 <i>until October 22nd, where Judge Green</i> 1131 00:40:18,708 --> 00:40:20,144 <i>told Pearcy to forget about it and said they would</i> 1132 00:40:20,168 --> 00:40:22,795 <i>continue with the extradition hearing on November 14th.</i> 1133 00:40:22,879 --> 00:40:23,880 [boom] 1134 00:40:24,714 --> 00:40:26,633 <i>Meanwhile, I came back to California,</i> 1135 00:40:26,716 --> 00:40:28,277 <i>pointed the van East toward</i> Newfoundland 1136 00:40:28,301 --> 00:40:30,136 <i>and set off across the continent on my way</i> 1137 00:40:30,219 --> 00:40:32,489 <i>to see you, stopping all over the map to collect the memories</i> 1138 00:40:32,513 --> 00:40:34,599 of a whole spectrum of people your dad touched. 1139 00:40:34,682 --> 00:40:36,768 <i>♪ Jazzy music ♪</i> 1140 00:40:37,810 --> 00:40:39,288 <i>But it was when I pulled into St. Louis</i> 1141 00:40:39,312 --> 00:40:40,521 <i>to see your grandpa's family-</i> 1142 00:40:40,605 --> 00:40:41,439 [man] Are you the oldest? 1143 00:40:41,522 --> 00:40:42,398 Yeah, I'm the oldest. 1144 00:40:42,482 --> 00:40:44,525 Uh, Bob was the middle one. 1145 00:40:44,609 --> 00:40:45,794 <i>He's one year younger than me.</i> 1146 00:40:45,818 --> 00:40:47,779 <i>[Kurt] That I discovered a very special place</i> 1147 00:40:47,862 --> 00:40:49,489 <i>where your dad had left his heart.</i> 1148 00:40:49,572 --> 00:40:51,783 <i>[woman] Andrew and Bob were very, very close.</i> 1149 00:40:51,866 --> 00:40:53,302 <i>[Jim] To - to see them around each other,</i> 1150 00:40:53,326 --> 00:40:55,787 <i>you'd think that Andrew had grown up his entire life</i> 1151 00:40:55,870 --> 00:40:56,788 <i>around Bob.</i> 1152 00:40:56,871 --> 00:40:58,456 You wouldn't know that it was, um, 1153 00:40:58,539 --> 00:41:00,291 once-a-summer relationship. 1154 00:41:00,375 --> 00:41:02,043 <i>[woman] Bob used take Andrew out,</i> 1155 00:41:02,126 --> 00:41:04,170 <i>let him drive the truck before he was old enough.</i> 1156 00:41:04,253 --> 00:41:05,648 - [man] Yeah. - [woman] And they'd play pool. 1157 00:41:05,672 --> 00:41:07,674 And my dad was very good at pool, 1158 00:41:07,757 --> 00:41:10,093 but then Matt came along who was even, mm, 1159 00:41:10,176 --> 00:41:11,302 probably better at pool. 1160 00:41:11,386 --> 00:41:12,613 <i>[Mack] Well, I would say was excellent,</i> 1161 00:41:12,637 --> 00:41:13,972 <i>but he wasn't as good as me.</i> 1162 00:41:14,055 --> 00:41:16,891 He probably still owes me around $30,000. 1163 00:41:16,975 --> 00:41:18,518 <i>[Earlene] Hey, Mac...</i> 1164 00:41:18,601 --> 00:41:20,853 <i>is my daughter Rhonda's...</i> 1165 00:41:20,937 --> 00:41:21,980 first husband. 1166 00:41:22,438 --> 00:41:23,499 I don't know, they just clicked. 1167 00:41:23,523 --> 00:41:24,541 I mean, they just clicked. 1168 00:41:24,565 --> 00:41:26,275 I can't explain why or anything- 1169 00:41:26,359 --> 00:41:28,653 Automatically my little brother. [laughs] 1170 00:41:28,736 --> 00:41:29,904 It's the way I look at it. 1171 00:41:30,571 --> 00:41:32,573 <i>♪ Soft piano ♪</i> 1172 00:41:33,074 --> 00:41:35,159 <i>We just become friends.</i> 1173 00:41:37,245 --> 00:41:40,248 <i>Yeah, this is our clubhouse, which me and Bob had.</i> 1174 00:41:40,999 --> 00:41:42,083 <i>And...</i> 1175 00:41:42,875 --> 00:41:44,419 <i>he used to love to come down here.</i> 1176 00:41:45,128 --> 00:41:46,981 <i>And as soon as he'd hit town, we'd come out here</i> 1177 00:41:47,005 --> 00:41:48,214 <i>and we'd just stay for days.</i> 1178 00:41:48,297 --> 00:41:49,817 <i>David and Kate and them would come out,</i> 1179 00:41:49,841 --> 00:41:51,276 <i>always had big barbecue or fish fry,</i> 1180 00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:52,611 <i>take the jon boat and head up the river,</i> 1181 00:41:52,635 --> 00:41:53,720 <i>huge cabin.</i> 1182 00:41:53,803 --> 00:41:54,637 <i>I mean, I've gotten to the point</i> 1183 00:41:54,721 --> 00:41:56,407 <i>where we didn’t even have to think about who was gonna</i> 1184 00:41:56,431 --> 00:41:57,515 <i>drive the boat íf Andrew-</i> 1185 00:41:57,598 --> 00:41:58,850 <i>[woman] At nighttime,</i> 1186 00:41:58,933 --> 00:42:00,619 <i>they'd stack up the logs and build a bonfire</i> 1187 00:42:00,643 --> 00:42:02,311 <i>and we would buy fireworks.</i> 1188 00:42:02,395 --> 00:42:04,331 <i>And it would be beautiful, 'cause it was real dark-</i> 1189 00:42:04,355 --> 00:42:05,815 <i>[man] ...check and see íf you're hurt</i> 1190 00:42:05,898 --> 00:42:07,042 <i>when you're gong to be a damn doctor</i> 1191 00:42:07,066 --> 00:42:07,984 <i>you gotta know yourself.</i> 1192 00:42:08,067 --> 00:42:10,278 <i>I said, "If you were smart, you'd be a gynecologist."</i> 1193 00:42:11,529 --> 00:42:13,406 <i>[woman] Doctor came into the room</i> 1194 00:42:13,489 --> 00:42:15,283 <i>and, uh, said he had bad news.</i> 1195 00:42:15,366 --> 00:42:17,577 <i>He said that the cancer...</i> 1196 00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:18,870 <i>had spread...</i> 1197 00:42:19,871 --> 00:42:21,998 <i>to his bones and to his liver.</i> 1198 00:42:22,081 --> 00:42:23,916 <i>And I look at him and said, "I want truth."</i> 1199 00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:26,335 He said, "three to six months." 1200 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,507 <i>[Mack] I mean I can come down here any time I want,</i> 1201 00:42:33,051 --> 00:42:34,302 <i>I lost...</i> 1202 00:42:37,930 --> 00:42:40,183 I lost all interest in a lot of things 1203 00:42:40,266 --> 00:42:41,726 when Bob died, for some reason. 1204 00:42:42,894 --> 00:42:44,854 <i>[Earlene] I know it was hard on Andrew, too.</i> 1205 00:42:47,732 --> 00:42:49,692 [unintelligible] brought me a little note letter. 1206 00:42:51,944 --> 00:42:53,863 <i>Bob was very proud of him.</i> 1207 00:42:55,698 --> 00:42:58,098 <i>[Mack] I imagine him and Andrew are laughing at me right now.</i> 1208 00:43:02,371 --> 00:43:03,664 Both assholes. 1209 00:43:05,208 --> 00:43:07,585 <i>♪ Choral music ♪</i> 1210 00:43:09,128 --> 00:43:10,838 <i>[Zachary]Are you sad now?</i> 1211 00:43:10,922 --> 00:43:12,131 <i>[Jim] Yeah, I'm still sad.</i> 1212 00:43:15,551 --> 00:43:16,677 I'll be okay. 1213 00:43:17,929 --> 00:43:18,929 Here, give me a hug. 1214 00:43:18,971 --> 00:43:20,139 That'll make me feel better. 1215 00:43:22,100 --> 00:43:23,518 He was great. 1216 00:43:23,601 --> 00:43:25,436 If there's anything I can do, I'll be there. 1217 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,063 Well, we hope to see him. 1218 00:43:27,146 --> 00:43:29,065 And we can show him pictures and everything. 1219 00:43:29,148 --> 00:43:30,793 And we'd love to be a part of that as well. 1220 00:43:30,817 --> 00:43:32,235 To share our lives with him. 1221 00:43:32,318 --> 00:43:34,463 Oh, I wish I could be there and pinch those little cheeks. 1222 00:43:34,487 --> 00:43:35,988 [laughs] 1223 00:43:36,781 --> 00:43:39,700 Zachary, you'll never know what you missed. 1224 00:43:41,369 --> 00:43:42,370 [beep] 1225 00:43:53,631 --> 00:43:55,508 <i>[Kurt] On November 14th, 2002,</i> 1226 00:43:55,591 --> 00:43:57,152 <i>Judge Derek Greene declared that a properly</i> 1227 00:43:57,176 --> 00:43:59,428 <i>instructed jury could likely find Shirley guilty.</i> 1228 00:43:59,512 --> 00:44:00,930 <i>And ordered her incarcerated</i> 1229 00:44:01,013 --> 00:44:02,825 <i>in the Clarenville Correctional Center for Women</i> 1230 00:44:02,849 --> 00:44:04,689 <i>awaiting a decision for the Minister of Justice</i> 1231 00:44:04,725 --> 00:44:06,245 <i>to surrender her to the United States.</i> 1232 00:44:06,269 --> 00:44:08,896 She always seemed to know exactly when to turn nice. 1233 00:44:08,980 --> 00:44:10,898 And it was a pretty obvious time to turn nice. 1234 00:44:10,982 --> 00:44:12,167 <i>[Kurt] Suddenly, Shirley turned around</i> 1235 00:44:12,191 --> 00:44:13,794 <i>and gave your grandma and grandpa custody of you</i> 1236 00:44:13,818 --> 00:44:15,045 <i>for as long as she was in prison.</i> 1237 00:44:15,069 --> 00:44:17,280 We could stop in and see him whenever we liked. 1238 00:44:17,363 --> 00:44:18,948 And we did. 1239 00:44:19,031 --> 00:44:21,200 <i>They were so excited, and it was Christmas Eve and...</i> 1240 00:44:21,284 --> 00:44:23,327 <i>you know, it had started to snow a little bit</i> 1241 00:44:23,411 --> 00:44:25,746 <i>and the doorbell was ringing and someone showed up</i> 1242 00:44:25,830 --> 00:44:28,040 <i>with a present and then, I think Alan Goodricky,</i> 1243 00:44:28,124 --> 00:44:30,001 <i>who was a professor, one of Andrew’s professors,</i> 1244 00:44:30,084 --> 00:44:32,003 <i>he showed up with a...</i> 1245 00:44:32,086 --> 00:44:33,939 <i>something, I don't know what, and then you know,</i> 1246 00:44:33,963 --> 00:44:35,858 <i>"finally, I said, "What do you got, like, the Magis</i> 1247 00:44:35,882 --> 00:44:38,384 <i>showing up at the- [laughs] at your house?"</i> 1248 00:44:38,467 --> 00:44:40,487 <i>[woman] We went to church with them on Christmas Eve.</i> 1249 00:44:40,511 --> 00:44:42,346 <i>If Zachery got fussy, uh, you know,</i> 1250 00:44:42,430 --> 00:44:44,390 <i>they would pick him up and they would feed him</i> 1251 00:44:44,473 --> 00:44:46,073 <i>and they walk to the back of the church.</i> 1252 00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:47,286 If there's people in this church 1253 00:44:47,310 --> 00:44:48,561 that don't know the five of us. 1254 00:44:48,644 --> 00:44:50,354 It looks like these are the grandparents, 1255 00:44:50,438 --> 00:44:52,607 we're the parents, and Zachary is our child. 1256 00:44:52,690 --> 00:44:55,443 I said, "We look like terrible parents!" 1257 00:44:55,526 --> 00:44:58,070 <i>[woman] He was besotted with them, the child was.</i> 1258 00:44:58,446 --> 00:45:00,531 <i>You know, no one could comfort him, only Kate.</i> 1259 00:45:00,615 --> 00:45:02,366 They were so happy- 1260 00:45:02,450 --> 00:45:04,250 <i>[Kurt] But it wasn't all sweetness and light.</i> 1261 00:45:04,327 --> 00:45:05,703 <i>You came with strings attached.</i> 1262 00:45:05,786 --> 00:45:08,623 The reason we reach consent and reason she reached consent 1263 00:45:08,706 --> 00:45:10,708 is if you reach consent... 1264 00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:13,377 you have some control. 1265 00:45:13,961 --> 00:45:16,214 We accept a phone call a day in from jail 1266 00:45:16,297 --> 00:45:17,840 to talk about Zachary. 1267 00:45:17,924 --> 00:45:20,218 Which a foster home would have done anyways. 1268 00:45:20,301 --> 00:45:22,011 <i>[automated voice] This is Aliant Telecom.</i> 1269 00:45:22,094 --> 00:45:24,055 <i>You have a collect call from-</i> 1270 00:45:24,138 --> 00:45:25,139 <i>[over phone] Shirley.</i> 1271 00:45:25,306 --> 00:45:26,866 <i>[automated voice] You may press one now</i> 1272 00:45:26,891 --> 00:45:27,808 <i>to accept the charges. [beep]</i> 1273 00:45:27,892 --> 00:45:28,643 <i>Thank you.</i> 1274 00:45:28,726 --> 00:45:29,477 <i>[David] Hello?</i> 1275 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,062 <i>- [Shirley] Hi. - [David]. Yeah, hi.</i> 1276 00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:53,769 We'd bring him up to the prison for a weekly visit. 1277 00:46:58,607 --> 00:47:00,318 That was an astounding... 1278 00:47:05,823 --> 00:47:06,824 imposition. 1279 00:47:06,907 --> 00:47:09,577 <i>Each week, they would drive two hours to the jail</i> 1280 00:47:09,660 --> 00:47:12,747 <i>where Shirley was so that she would be able to see her son</i> 1281 00:47:12,830 --> 00:47:14,270 <i>and to follow the visitation rights,</i> 1282 00:47:14,332 --> 00:47:17,418 because just as Kate and David wanted visitation rights, 1283 00:47:17,501 --> 00:47:20,129 um, they had to honor Shirley's visitation rights. 1284 00:47:20,212 --> 00:47:21,380 And in the winter. 1285 00:47:21,464 --> 00:47:23,233 But the weather, needless to say, in Newfoundland- 1286 00:47:23,257 --> 00:47:24,633 The weather here is terrible. 1287 00:47:24,717 --> 00:47:27,011 <i>[woman] To make that journey was awful.</i> 1288 00:47:27,303 --> 00:47:29,805 <i>Only Kate and David would have done it really, I think.</i> 1289 00:47:31,557 --> 00:47:32,808 Nobody else would have done it. 1290 00:47:32,892 --> 00:47:35,978 The one guard the one day said to Kate and David 1291 00:47:36,062 --> 00:47:37,605 speaking to Zachary, 1292 00:47:37,688 --> 00:47:40,691 <i>"Zachary, I hope, um, someday you will realize</i> 1293 00:47:40,775 --> 00:47:44,111 <i>how brave and courageous your grandparents are."</i> 1294 00:47:44,195 --> 00:47:46,822 Like, I think if I could be a quarter of the grandma 1295 00:47:46,906 --> 00:47:49,450 that Kate is, I'll be such a success. 1296 00:47:50,117 --> 00:47:52,036 <i>You know, seeing them with Zachary,</i> 1297 00:47:52,119 --> 00:47:53,839 <i>just to see the looks on their faces, Kurt,</i> 1298 00:47:53,913 --> 00:47:55,998 <i>when - when-when they'd have him, you know-</i> 1299 00:47:56,082 --> 00:47:58,918 <i>[Jackie] You know to see them so happy...</i> 1300 00:48:03,381 --> 00:48:04,715 and then, you know... 1301 00:48:06,592 --> 00:48:07,843 that ended, didn't it? 1302 00:48:08,344 --> 00:48:09,929 <i>♪ Acoustic fingerpicking ♪</i> 1303 00:48:10,763 --> 00:48:12,366 <i>[Kurt] Now crossing the east coast of the U.S.,</i> 1304 00:48:12,390 --> 00:48:13,849 <i>I was almost to you.</i> 1305 00:48:13,933 --> 00:48:16,268 <i>I pulled off the main road for one last stop:</i> 1306 00:48:16,352 --> 00:48:18,270 <i>a small town, Utopia, where your dad had spent</i> 1307 00:48:18,354 --> 00:48:20,106 <i>the last four months of his life.</i> 1308 00:48:20,189 --> 00:48:22,108 <i>It was here that I would find the only people</i> 1309 00:48:22,191 --> 00:48:23,859 <i>who knew what he was like as a doctor,</i> 1310 00:48:23,943 --> 00:48:25,528 <i>just days before they would graduate</i> 1311 00:48:25,611 --> 00:48:26,695 <i>and scatter to the winds.</i> 1312 00:48:26,779 --> 00:48:29,949 <i>[woman] Oh, Latrobe is famous for Mr. Rogers-</i> 1313 00:48:30,032 --> 00:48:31,659 <i>[man] Of, uh, children's TV fame.</i> 1314 00:48:31,742 --> 00:48:33,119 <i>[Jennifer] Rolling Rock beer,</i> 1315 00:48:33,202 --> 00:48:35,704 <i>ít's the birthplace of professional football...</i> 1316 00:48:35,788 --> 00:48:37,289 <i>though, some would argue that.</i> 1317 00:48:37,373 --> 00:48:38,874 Strickler's Pharmacy. 1318 00:48:38,958 --> 00:48:41,318 I'm told that the Banana Split was invented here in Latrobe. 1319 00:48:41,377 --> 00:48:42,711 And Arnold Palmer. 1320 00:48:42,795 --> 00:48:45,047 <i>[man] Mr. Palmer's a very important figure</i> 1321 00:48:45,131 --> 00:48:46,257 <i>in this community.</i> 1322 00:48:46,340 --> 00:48:48,443 <i>[man] This is a community where people don't even lock their doors.</i> 1323 00:48:48,467 --> 00:48:50,028 <i>[Kurt] Your dad's door was directly across the street</i> 1324 00:48:50,052 --> 00:48:52,322 <i>from the hospital, giving him a 30-second commute to work.</i> 1325 00:48:52,346 --> 00:48:53,906 <i>[Man] And I said, "Can I call you Andy?"</i> 1326 00:48:53,931 --> 00:48:55,409 <i>And he goes, "Actually, I don't like Andy."</i> 1327 00:48:55,433 --> 00:48:56,952 <i>[man] He said, "But you can call me Andrew,</i> 1328 00:48:56,976 --> 00:48:58,703 <i>you can call me Bagby, you can call me Bags."</i> 1329 00:48:58,727 --> 00:49:00,229 <i>[woman] I never did. [laughs]</i> 1330 00:49:00,312 --> 00:49:01,957 <i>[Kurt] 10 minutes after I arrived, doctor Bill DeCuchillo</i> 1331 00:49:01,981 --> 00:49:03,482 <i>picked me up to show me around town.</i> 1332 00:49:05,609 --> 00:49:06,861 His class. 1333 00:49:06,944 --> 00:49:08,154 It it was Bill DeCuchillo. 1334 00:49:08,237 --> 00:49:09,756 <i>[Kurt]And after hanging with Bill for a short while,</i> 1335 00:49:09,780 --> 00:49:11,740 <i>I completely understood why.</i> 1336 00:49:11,824 --> 00:49:13,593 This is yours to take with you in your travels 1337 00:49:13,617 --> 00:49:15,178 to remember the chief resident's office. 1338 00:49:15,202 --> 00:49:16,370 They were like Mutt and Jeff. 1339 00:49:16,454 --> 00:49:17,681 <i>[man] They were Tweedledee and Tweedledum.</i> 1340 00:49:17,705 --> 00:49:19,790 <i>[Greg] Bill was just devastated, as we all were,</i> 1341 00:49:19,874 --> 00:49:20,958 <i>but especially so.</i> 1342 00:49:21,041 --> 00:49:22,721 I think Bill had spent more time with him. 1343 00:49:22,793 --> 00:49:25,421 And I-know that as a third-year resident, 1344 00:49:25,504 --> 00:49:27,131 <i>Clark was quite close with him.</i> 1345 00:49:27,214 --> 00:49:30,426 He was this-this surgical resident from Syracuse. 1346 00:49:30,509 --> 00:49:32,553 Being a former surgical intern, that's a big deal. 1347 00:49:32,636 --> 00:49:34,346 They're all about cutting and 1348 00:49:34,430 --> 00:49:35,615 <i>what we do is a little bit different.</i> 1349 00:49:35,639 --> 00:49:36,891 <i>It's more about people.</i> 1350 00:49:36,974 --> 00:49:38,350 <i>I would say to him, um,</i> 1351 00:49:38,434 --> 00:49:39,536 <i>"Now, you go out there and you go,"</i> 1352 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,413 <i>and you listen to the heart and you talk to those people</i> 1353 00:49:41,437 --> 00:49:42,831 <i>because, you know, like, people talk.</i> 1354 00:49:42,855 --> 00:49:44,166 <i>They're not just unconscious all the time.</i> 1355 00:49:44,190 --> 00:49:45,584 <i>[Kurt] Your dad also had an office visit</i> 1356 00:49:45,608 --> 00:49:47,169 <i>every Monday afternoon at the last place</i> 1357 00:49:47,193 --> 00:49:48,611 <i>he was ever seen alive:</i> 1358 00:49:48,694 --> 00:49:50,571 <i>a clinic in the small town of Salzburg,</i> 1359 00:49:50,654 --> 00:49:53,115 <i>a beautiful 30-minute drive away through the country,</i> 1360 00:49:53,199 --> 00:49:55,993 <i>past a lovely spot called Keystone State Park.</i> 1361 00:49:56,076 --> 00:49:58,412 <i>He was already, just within a couple of months,</i> 1362 00:49:58,496 --> 00:50:00,498 already getting patients to Cali 1363 00:50:00,581 --> 00:50:02,124 and specifically ask for him. 1364 00:50:02,208 --> 00:50:03,626 Hi, I'm Dr. Bagby. 1365 00:50:03,709 --> 00:50:05,628 People trusted him when he walked into a room. 1366 00:50:05,711 --> 00:50:07,630 Medicine's a little like being a detective. 1367 00:50:07,713 --> 00:50:10,090 Does anyone else in your family experience this? 1368 00:50:10,174 --> 00:50:12,134 You think of people who have passed, 1369 00:50:12,218 --> 00:50:14,887 you can't help but paint a rosy glow around them. 1370 00:50:14,970 --> 00:50:16,722 More than half of it... 1371 00:50:16,805 --> 00:50:18,766 is being able to get a story on somebody. 1372 00:50:18,849 --> 00:50:20,559 It's not what's happening in this case. 1373 00:50:20,643 --> 00:50:22,204 <i>I'll always be grateful to him because he diagnosed</i> 1374 00:50:22,228 --> 00:50:23,955 my nephew's cancer, and he diagnosed it early enough 1375 00:50:23,979 --> 00:50:25,940 that he was able to get complete treatment. 1376 00:50:26,023 --> 00:50:28,609 He was really pretty outstanding at this stuff. 1377 00:50:28,692 --> 00:50:30,170 He was told he may never have children. 1378 00:50:30,194 --> 00:50:31,779 He just has a newborn baby. 1379 00:50:31,862 --> 00:50:34,156 <i>[man] He always told me that he wanted to practice</i> 1380 00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:37,368 <i>in a town the size of Latrobe and be, like,</i> 1381 00:50:37,451 --> 00:50:39,245 <i>the doc of the town, know everybody,</i> 1382 00:50:39,328 --> 00:50:40,538 <i>and know everybody's family.</i> 1383 00:50:40,621 --> 00:50:42,461 <i>[Kate] And we really thought he'd found heaven.</i> 1384 00:50:44,959 --> 00:50:46,627 <i>But we packed our bags and went to bed</i> 1385 00:50:46,710 --> 00:50:49,088 <i>because we knew were gong to be leaving the next morning.</i> 1386 00:50:49,171 --> 00:50:52,132 <i>[David] And we stayed in-in the upstairs spare bedroom</i> 1387 00:50:52,216 --> 00:50:53,551 <i>of Andrew’s house.</i> 1388 00:50:53,634 --> 00:50:55,970 <i>[Kate] The next morning, we saw him off at 6:30.</i> 1389 00:50:56,053 --> 00:50:57,822 <i>And as I said, that's when I noticed he was blinking</i> 1390 00:50:57,846 --> 00:50:59,098 <i>for the first time.</i> 1391 00:50:59,473 --> 00:51:01,225 <i>And he did that when he was a little boy</i> 1392 00:51:01,308 --> 00:51:03,894 <i>when he was nervous or worried about something,</i> 1393 00:51:03,978 --> 00:51:05,229 <i>just blink...</i> 1394 00:51:05,646 --> 00:51:06,646 <i>blink, blink.</i> 1395 00:51:06,689 --> 00:51:08,232 <i>And I wanted to say to him,</i> 1396 00:51:08,315 --> 00:51:09,459 <i>"Oh, Andrew, what's the matter?"</i> 1397 00:51:09,483 --> 00:51:10,734 <i>He stood up.</i> 1398 00:51:10,985 --> 00:51:13,028 <i>And I remember he looked at us such a long time and-</i> 1399 00:51:13,112 --> 00:51:16,240 <i>but he came over and he kissed me and kissed his dad</i> 1400 00:51:16,323 --> 00:51:17,843 <i>and then he got halfway into that room</i> 1401 00:51:17,908 --> 00:51:19,410 <i>and he came back and kissed us again,</i> 1402 00:51:19,493 --> 00:51:21,704 <i>and we went with him and he kissed us again at the door,</i> 1403 00:51:21,787 --> 00:51:24,415 <i>and then he got across the hospital there</i> 1404 00:51:24,498 --> 00:51:26,041 down that alley and just went... 1405 00:51:26,709 --> 00:51:28,752 [medical beeping] 1406 00:51:30,254 --> 00:51:31,505 <i>And he was gone.</i> 1407 00:51:32,673 --> 00:51:34,508 That was the last time until... 1408 00:51:37,177 --> 00:51:38,178 we saw him dead. 1409 00:51:39,138 --> 00:51:42,683 <i>"[woman] And I can remember Andrew saying, "If I-</i> 1410 00:51:42,766 --> 00:51:45,311 <i>if I die tomorrow, all I want you to do</i> 1411 00:51:45,394 --> 00:51:47,646 <i>is sit and, um,</i> 1412 00:51:47,730 --> 00:51:49,231 <i>toast a beer to me.</i> 1413 00:51:49,315 --> 00:51:50,399 <i>Do you remember that?</i> 1414 00:51:50,482 --> 00:51:51,501 <i>When his parents had finished cleaning</i> 1415 00:51:51,525 --> 00:51:52,985 out his apartment, they gave me... 1416 00:51:53,068 --> 00:51:54,403 his last... 1417 00:51:54,486 --> 00:51:55,279 beer. 1418 00:51:55,362 --> 00:51:56,822 We have one bottle remaining. 1419 00:51:56,905 --> 00:51:59,074 We're going to crack Andrew's last Fuller's ESB 1420 00:51:59,158 --> 00:52:00,034 right now and, uh, 1421 00:52:00,117 --> 00:52:01,717 Kurt and I are going to sip it together. 1422 00:52:02,244 --> 00:52:03,537 Little toast to our friend. 1423 00:52:05,039 --> 00:52:06,373 To Andrew, my good friend. 1424 00:52:06,457 --> 00:52:07,791 I can't wait to see you again. 1425 00:52:09,126 --> 00:52:11,086 [engine running] 1426 00:52:11,170 --> 00:52:12,463 And then, of course, 1427 00:52:12,546 --> 00:52:14,089 the unthinkable happened again. 1428 00:52:14,173 --> 00:52:15,924 They let her out of jail again. 1429 00:52:16,008 --> 00:52:17,343 And we had to give him back. 1430 00:52:18,385 --> 00:52:20,387 On January 10th, 2003. 1431 00:52:20,471 --> 00:52:21,221 <i>[Kurt] Shirley was out of money</i> 1432 00:52:21,305 --> 00:52:22,181 <i>and out of a lawyer.</i> 1433 00:52:22,264 --> 00:52:23,984 <i>So she wrote directly to judge Derek Greene</i> 1434 00:52:24,058 --> 00:52:25,952 <i>who responded through his secretary with instructions</i> 1435 00:52:25,976 --> 00:52:27,704 <i>on how to write her own appeal of his decision</i> 1436 00:52:27,728 --> 00:52:29,480 <i>to incarcerate her while awaiting an order</i> 1437 00:52:29,563 --> 00:52:31,923 <i>from the Minister of Justice to surrender her to the States.</i> 1438 00:52:31,982 --> 00:52:33,710 <i>[woman] I have a few friends who are judges and...</i> 1439 00:52:33,734 --> 00:52:35,486 <i>no, [laughs] there's no way...</i> 1440 00:52:35,569 --> 00:52:37,696 <i>they would ever have responded...</i> 1441 00:52:37,780 --> 00:52:39,948 in the way that judge responded to Shirley. 1442 00:52:40,032 --> 00:52:42,010 <i>[Kurt] She did and was let back onto the streets by-</i> 1443 00:52:42,034 --> 00:52:45,746 - Judge Gail Welsh. - Judge Gail Welsh. 1444 00:52:45,829 --> 00:52:47,309 <i>[Kurt] Welsh refused to even consider</i> 1445 00:52:47,373 --> 00:52:48,749 <i>prosecutor Mike Madden's argument</i> 1446 00:52:48,832 --> 00:52:50,018 <i>that Shirley’s appeal was frivolous,</i> 1447 00:52:50,042 --> 00:52:51,811 <i>even though multiple Legal Aid Commission attorneys</i> 1448 00:52:51,835 --> 00:52:52,961 <i>had reviewed her appeal</i> 1449 00:52:53,045 --> 00:52:55,089 <i>and refused to waste their time representing her.</i> 1450 00:52:55,172 --> 00:52:56,006 <i>[Kate] And íf you could have seen-</i> 1451 00:52:56,090 --> 00:52:57,716 <i>I knew that we were gong to be</i> 1452 00:52:57,800 --> 00:52:59,677 <i>seeing Shirley turn and walk free</i> 1453 00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,137 <i>the minute that woman walked into the room, Judge Welsh.</i> 1454 00:53:02,221 --> 00:53:04,348 She was almost fawning with Shirley Turner, 1455 00:53:04,431 --> 00:53:05,599 as-as I saw it. 1456 00:53:05,683 --> 00:53:07,768 "Oh, Dr. Turner," she said. 1457 00:53:07,851 --> 00:53:09,287 <i>[Kurt] I recognize that you're not represented,</i> 1458 00:53:09,311 --> 00:53:11,522 <i>but also know that, as a doctor, you're quite capable,</i> 1459 00:53:11,605 --> 00:53:12,773 <i>so I'm gong to run-</i> 1460 00:53:12,856 --> 00:53:14,608 <i>Dr. Turner, I'm not trying to exclude you.</i> 1461 00:53:14,692 --> 00:53:16,612 <i>However, the argument would work to your benefit.</i> 1462 00:53:16,694 --> 00:53:17,796 <i>That's why I'm particularly interested</i> 1463 00:53:17,820 --> 00:53:18,987 <i>in Mr. Madden's response.</i> 1464 00:53:19,071 --> 00:53:20,572 I'd taken Zachery to prison, 1465 00:53:20,656 --> 00:53:22,258 I'd sat in their same little room with her, 1466 00:53:22,282 --> 00:53:23,802 and here I am having to listen to this 1467 00:53:23,826 --> 00:53:25,160 and the judge fawn on this woman. 1468 00:53:25,244 --> 00:53:27,222 <i>[Kurt] And Welsh actually asked an accused murderer</i> 1469 00:53:27,246 --> 00:53:28,872 <i>to promise she'd behave herself.</i> 1470 00:53:28,956 --> 00:53:31,101 <i>"If I make an order giving you judicial interim release"</i> 1471 00:53:31,125 --> 00:53:33,019 <i>it would be on the basis that you would not attempt to flee</i> 1472 00:53:33,043 --> 00:53:35,212 <i>or hide or avoid subsequent judicial proceedings</i> 1473 00:53:35,295 --> 00:53:36,171 <i>related to this matter?</i> 1474 00:53:36,255 --> 00:53:37,339 <i>Yes.</i> 1475 00:53:37,423 --> 00:53:38,441 <i>Is that completely understood by you?</i> 1476 00:53:38,465 --> 00:53:39,967 Yes, I completely understand. 1477 00:53:40,050 --> 00:53:42,553 And here, David and I, as if we don't even exist 1478 00:53:42,636 --> 00:53:43,554 and we don't exist. 1479 00:53:43,637 --> 00:53:44,638 They don't care about us. 1480 00:53:44,722 --> 00:53:45,824 They don't even care about the victim. 1481 00:53:45,848 --> 00:53:46,765 <i>[Kurt] She concluded that-</i> 1482 00:53:46,849 --> 00:53:48,600 And this is from her written decision. 1483 00:53:48,684 --> 00:53:50,495 <i>[Kurt] Dr. Turner's detention is not necessary</i> 1484 00:53:50,519 --> 00:53:51,437 <i>in the public interest.</i> 1485 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:52,831 <i>While the offense with which she is charged</i> 1486 00:53:52,855 --> 00:53:54,398 <i>is a violent and serious one,</i> 1487 00:53:54,481 --> 00:53:56,483 <i>it was not directed at the public at large.</i> 1488 00:53:56,567 --> 00:53:58,527 <i>There is no indication of a psychological disorder</i> 1489 00:53:58,569 --> 00:54:00,255 <i>that would give concern about potential harm</i> 1490 00:54:00,279 --> 00:54:02,823 <i>to the public generally, as her crime, while violent,</i> 1491 00:54:02,906 --> 00:54:04,283 <i>was specific in nature.</i> 1492 00:54:04,366 --> 00:54:05,701 <i>She is saying, in effect,</i> 1493 00:54:05,784 --> 00:54:08,036 <i>if I understand that-that sentence,</i> 1494 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:09,288 even if she did it... 1495 00:54:10,372 --> 00:54:12,040 she's not a danger to the community 1496 00:54:12,124 --> 00:54:13,764 because she's already killed the only one 1497 00:54:13,792 --> 00:54:14,877 she wanted to kill. 1498 00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:16,587 <i>He's the one she was mad at.</i> 1499 00:54:17,463 --> 00:54:18,464 <i>He's dead.</i> 1500 00:54:19,423 --> 00:54:21,425 <i>So she's not likely to kill again.</i> 1501 00:54:23,218 --> 00:54:25,763 And I find that logic absolutely atrocious. 1502 00:54:25,846 --> 00:54:28,098 Most of us do not kill people who anger us. 1503 00:54:28,182 --> 00:54:29,224 We go kick a door 1504 00:54:29,308 --> 00:54:30,058 Scream and shout. 1505 00:54:30,142 --> 00:54:31,059 Some of us throw a punch. 1506 00:54:31,143 --> 00:54:32,703 But we don't set them up and kill them. 1507 00:54:32,728 --> 00:54:34,730 You have here a human being 1508 00:54:34,813 --> 00:54:37,441 <i>who thinks they have the right to kill other people</i> 1509 00:54:37,524 --> 00:54:38,650 <i>who anger them.</i> 1510 00:54:40,152 --> 00:54:42,404 <i>And you still let them out in the general populace.</i> 1511 00:54:42,488 --> 00:54:44,031 I find that appalling. 1512 00:54:44,114 --> 00:54:46,658 <i>[Kurt] She was, again, let go on $75,000 in sureties,</i> 1513 00:54:46,742 --> 00:54:48,702 <i>not one penny of which had to be paid</i> 1514 00:54:48,786 --> 00:54:50,662 <i>and with that the government of Canada</i> 1515 00:54:50,746 --> 00:54:53,040 <i>let a probable premeditated first-degree murderer</i> 1516 00:54:53,123 --> 00:54:54,458 <i>walk the streets...</i> 1517 00:54:54,541 --> 00:54:55,542 <i>again.</i> 1518 00:54:56,335 --> 00:54:57,711 <i>And they gave you back to her.</i> 1519 00:55:00,964 --> 00:55:03,091 And after that, things got <i>really</i> weird. 1520 00:55:08,514 --> 00:55:11,517 We went and and wrote another consent order 1521 00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,728 <i>and we agreed to a schedule of visits</i> 1522 00:55:14,812 --> 00:55:16,688 <i>with, like, three or four hours</i> 1523 00:55:16,772 --> 00:55:18,106 <i>three times a week,</i> 1524 00:55:18,190 --> 00:55:19,733 <i>and an overnight every two weeks.</i> 1525 00:55:19,817 --> 00:55:24,488 We got them to let us have more contact... 1526 00:55:24,571 --> 00:55:26,073 with Shirley... 1527 00:55:26,156 --> 00:55:27,783 in order to- 1528 00:55:27,866 --> 00:55:29,385 -passing back and forth- -passing back and forth- 1529 00:55:29,409 --> 00:55:30,762 Otherwise, we never could have done it. 1530 00:55:30,786 --> 00:55:31,787 [ringing] 1531 00:55:40,003 --> 00:55:41,397 Because we would always have to arrange 1532 00:55:41,421 --> 00:55:42,756 for a third party. 1533 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,384 And then that third party would be not available 1534 00:55:45,467 --> 00:55:47,928 and that-we saw that we'd never get visits 1535 00:55:48,011 --> 00:55:49,781 with the baby because she could always find a reason 1536 00:55:49,805 --> 00:55:51,325 that there was nobody there, you know? 1537 00:55:58,188 --> 00:56:00,899 So this evolved into... 1538 00:56:00,983 --> 00:56:03,986 us actually spending a great deal of time 1539 00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:05,195 with Shirley Turner. 1540 00:56:10,701 --> 00:56:12,119 In order to be around Zachary. 1541 00:56:17,708 --> 00:56:19,251 What kind of things did you do? 1542 00:56:19,334 --> 00:56:20,687 <i>- Go to the mall. - [Kate] Go to the movies,</i> 1543 00:56:20,711 --> 00:56:22,296 <i>swimming lessons, we took him to.</i> 1544 00:56:25,632 --> 00:56:28,260 She came here bold as brass, 1545 00:56:28,343 --> 00:56:30,304 coming to be in our face kind of thing. 1546 00:56:33,682 --> 00:56:36,310 <i>[Helen] I had e-enormous fears for them.</i> 1547 00:56:36,393 --> 00:56:37,811 <i>I had a fear that Shirley would...</i> 1548 00:56:37,895 --> 00:56:38,896 go for them. 1549 00:56:43,525 --> 00:56:44,860 And they didn't seem to be... 1550 00:56:44,943 --> 00:56:45,861 worried for themselves. 1551 00:56:45,944 --> 00:56:47,195 In fact, they said weren't. 1552 00:56:51,909 --> 00:56:53,589 That at this point, that they didn't care. 1553 00:56:57,706 --> 00:56:59,946 [man] Can you describe what the process was like for you? 1554 00:57:04,546 --> 00:57:06,214 -Disgusting -Oh, disgusting. 1555 00:57:14,389 --> 00:57:16,183 But going up to the door, I mean- 1556 00:57:21,396 --> 00:57:22,522 Having to be with her. 1557 00:57:28,528 --> 00:57:29,529 It's just... 1558 00:57:30,614 --> 00:57:31,615 nauseating. 1559 00:57:46,964 --> 00:57:49,758 We <i>religiously</i> did not talk about the case. 1560 00:58:05,482 --> 00:58:07,752 -She tried to suck us through- -She brought it up one time 1561 00:58:07,776 --> 00:58:09,361 And she'd talk about, um, 1562 00:58:09,444 --> 00:58:11,506 you know, "Was Andrew's hair light when he was a baby?" 1563 00:58:11,530 --> 00:58:12,531 And we'd just shut up. 1564 00:58:22,124 --> 00:58:23,834 I thought it was like being at war. 1565 00:58:26,753 --> 00:58:28,513 Nobody wants to do it, but you got to do it. 1566 00:58:33,301 --> 00:58:34,845 So, facing this bitch- 1567 00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:42,769 It's the price we had to pay 1568 00:58:42,853 --> 00:58:44,247 to make sure we had a good connection 1569 00:58:44,271 --> 00:58:45,272 <i>with Zachary.</i> 1570 00:58:48,358 --> 00:58:49,609 He knew us, we knew him. 1571 00:58:51,820 --> 00:58:53,420 So that when she finally went to prison- 1572 00:58:55,699 --> 00:58:57,909 He had a smooth transition into our life. 1573 00:59:14,092 --> 00:59:15,802 I just feel awe about that. 1574 00:59:15,886 --> 00:59:17,471 I- I-I can't, uh... 1575 00:59:18,722 --> 00:59:20,265 I don't know how they did it, Kurt. 1576 00:59:20,348 --> 00:59:22,642 I don't know how they did it, but I know why they did it. 1577 00:59:22,726 --> 00:59:24,519 [birds chirping] 1578 00:59:25,103 --> 00:59:28,690 <i>♪ Emotional piano ♪</i> 1579 00:59:38,116 --> 00:59:39,451 <i>[Kurt] And finally,</i> 1580 00:59:39,534 --> 00:59:42,079 <i>after thousands of miles and memories,</i> 1581 00:59:42,162 --> 00:59:44,498 <i>on a rainy Sunday afternoon,</i> 1582 00:59:45,123 --> 00:59:46,208 <i>we met.</i> 1583 00:59:46,666 --> 00:59:48,710 <i>♪ Soft piano ♪</i> 1584 00:59:49,294 --> 00:59:50,938 - [Kurt] Hey, little bud! - [woman] Hi, Zachary! 1585 00:59:50,962 --> 00:59:52,464 Hello. 1586 00:59:52,547 --> 00:59:54,007 This is your uncle Kurt. 1587 00:59:54,091 --> 00:59:55,258 [woman] Aww! 1588 00:59:55,342 --> 00:59:57,052 [overlapping chatter] 1589 00:59:57,135 --> 00:59:58,053 [woman] There we go. 1590 00:59:58,136 --> 00:59:59,137 [laughs] 1591 01:00:00,972 --> 01:00:04,101 He knew your daddy from when he was a little boy. 1592 01:00:04,935 --> 01:00:05,936 [woman] Yeah? 1593 01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:07,854 [indistinct chatter] 1594 01:00:07,938 --> 01:00:09,290 [Kurt] Beth, is there anything that you 1595 01:00:09,314 --> 01:00:11,024 would like to say to Zachary? 1596 01:00:11,108 --> 01:00:11,942 Oh, wow. 1597 01:00:12,025 --> 01:00:13,443 Without tearing up here? Uh... 1598 01:00:13,527 --> 01:00:15,070 <i>♪ soft piano ♪</i> 1599 01:00:15,153 --> 01:00:16,696 First of all, I saw your pictures... 1600 01:00:17,697 --> 01:00:18,865 and you are a very cute kid 1601 01:00:18,949 --> 01:00:21,326 and you look exactly like Andrew. 1602 01:00:21,409 --> 01:00:24,121 Definitely the cheeky Andrew face, definitely. 1603 01:00:24,371 --> 01:00:25,622 - Ah. - [laughter] 1604 01:00:25,705 --> 01:00:27,749 <i>[Clark] Zachary, you're a lucky little boy.</i> 1605 01:00:27,833 --> 01:00:29,709 <i>And you're an unfortunate little boy.</i> 1606 01:00:30,418 --> 01:00:32,087 <i>Your father, who you'll never know...</i> 1607 01:00:33,630 --> 01:00:36,550 <i>was such an amazing guy,</i> 1608 01:00:36,633 --> 01:00:38,718 <i>and he touched so many people...</i> 1609 01:00:39,177 --> 01:00:40,887 <i>in such a short period of time.</i> 1610 01:00:40,971 --> 01:00:42,806 <i>[woman] It's not just a bunch of... stories.</i> 1611 01:00:42,889 --> 01:00:44,224 He was a real person. 1612 01:00:44,307 --> 01:00:46,143 <i>Quite frankly, don't let anybody lie to you,</i> 1613 01:00:46,226 --> 01:00:48,079 wouldn't eat anything green until he went away to college. 1614 01:00:48,103 --> 01:00:50,689 Zachary is asleep in the other room. 1615 01:00:51,273 --> 01:00:52,941 He's spending the night. 1616 01:00:54,192 --> 01:00:55,795 <i>[Clark]And you're an unfortunate little boy</i> 1617 01:00:55,819 --> 01:00:58,405 <i>because you're more than likely to grow up without...</i> 1618 01:00:58,488 --> 01:01:00,407 <i>your biological father...</i> 1619 01:01:00,490 --> 01:01:02,576 <i>or your biological mother.</i> 1620 01:01:03,493 --> 01:01:05,245 <i>But with a little bit of luck...</i> 1621 01:01:05,871 --> 01:01:08,206 <i>you'll get to grow up with Andrew's parents.</i> 1622 01:01:09,291 --> 01:01:11,334 <i>And let me tell you this:</i> 1623 01:01:11,418 --> 01:01:13,753 <i>they did the most amazíng job.</i> 1624 01:01:15,130 --> 01:01:17,340 <i>You couldn't ask for two better people.</i> 1625 01:01:17,424 --> 01:01:19,759 <i>[Kate] [singing] Grandma loves you, yes she does.</i> 1626 01:01:19,843 --> 01:01:22,470 <i>Granddad loves you, yes he does.</i> 1627 01:01:22,554 --> 01:01:24,764 <i>Daddy love you, yes he does.</i> 1628 01:01:24,848 --> 01:01:27,350 <i>Uncle Kurt's here and he loves you too.</i> 1629 01:01:27,434 --> 01:01:30,061 <i>We all love you all we can.</i> 1630 01:01:30,395 --> 01:01:32,689 <i>Darling, darling little man.</i> 1631 01:01:32,772 --> 01:01:33,958 <i>[Clark] And so from that perspective,</i> 1632 01:01:33,982 --> 01:01:35,742 <i>you're the luckiest little boy in the world.</i> 1633 01:01:35,817 --> 01:01:38,069 They love you more than life itself. 1634 01:01:38,153 --> 01:01:40,113 <i>And íf you ever need anything,</i> 1635 01:01:40,197 --> 01:01:41,531 I'm not far away, either. 1636 01:01:41,615 --> 01:01:43,742 <i>And know we'll be there for you</i> 1637 01:01:43,825 --> 01:01:46,328 in every way that he can't be. 1638 01:01:46,411 --> 01:01:48,663 <i>Zach, when you're old enough and you watch this,</i> 1639 01:01:48,747 --> 01:01:51,333 if you ever want to talk to me personally, 1640 01:01:51,416 --> 01:01:52,709 or you want to come and see me 1641 01:01:52,792 --> 01:01:54,878 <i>you have an open invitation and you should know that.</i> 1642 01:01:54,961 --> 01:01:56,713 <i>And you're loved and I love you and</i> 1643 01:01:56,796 --> 01:01:58,566 <i>I care about the person you're going to become.</i> 1644 01:01:58,590 --> 01:02:00,133 We love him and we do simple things 1645 01:02:00,217 --> 01:02:02,510 - like send him books. - Happy Birthday. 1646 01:02:02,594 --> 01:02:04,930 - We can't wait to meet him. - I hope to get the chance... 1647 01:02:05,013 --> 01:02:06,056 to meet you. 1648 01:02:06,139 --> 01:02:07,641 I hope, uh, I'm Uncle Ken to Zachary. 1649 01:02:07,724 --> 01:02:10,185 <i>[man] If you're anything like Andrew...</i> 1650 01:02:10,268 --> 01:02:11,144 it's going to be good. 1651 01:02:11,228 --> 01:02:12,663 I think that you'll turn out just great. 1652 01:02:12,687 --> 01:02:13,831 [man] This is student affairs. 1653 01:02:13,855 --> 01:02:14,981 Are you-are you a student? 1654 01:02:15,065 --> 01:02:16,399 Who knows? Maybe someday, 1655 01:02:16,483 --> 01:02:18,485 you'll be applying here to the faculty of medicine. 1656 01:02:18,568 --> 01:02:19,768 [man] Does this look exciting? 1657 01:02:20,612 --> 01:02:21,905 We are going to do an interview. 1658 01:02:21,988 --> 01:02:24,157 <i>[woman] Even though things started tragically,</i> 1659 01:02:24,241 --> 01:02:26,785 <i>you know, he's the blessing Andrew left behind.</i> 1660 01:02:28,954 --> 01:02:30,264 <i>[Kurt] I parked the van two blocks away</i> 1661 01:02:30,288 --> 01:02:31,849 <i>because it was the only vehicle for miles</i> 1662 01:02:31,873 --> 01:02:33,392 <i>with California plates that would give away to Shirley</i> 1663 01:02:33,416 --> 01:02:34,584 <i>that I was in town.</i> 1664 01:02:34,668 --> 01:02:36,795 - Sort of a stealth van. - [Kurt] Exactly. 1665 01:02:36,878 --> 01:02:38,689 <i>[Kurt] If she knew, I was afraid she would find excuses</i> 1666 01:02:38,713 --> 01:02:40,066 <i>to withhold you so that I couldn't see you.</i> 1667 01:02:40,090 --> 01:02:40,882 [doorbell rings] 1668 01:02:40,966 --> 01:02:41,800 <i>Every time the doorbell rang,</i> 1669 01:02:41,883 --> 01:02:42,634 <i>I hid in the back bedroom</i> 1670 01:02:42,717 --> 01:02:43,635 <i>as it could have been her</i> 1671 01:02:43,718 --> 01:02:45,095 <i>just dropping by unannounced.</i> 1672 01:02:45,178 --> 01:02:46,906 <i>[over phone] Hi, Dave. Hi, Kate. This is Shirley.</i> 1673 01:02:46,930 --> 01:02:47,990 <i>[Kurt] On the days we didn’t have you</i> 1674 01:02:48,014 --> 01:02:49,742 <i>I discovered your dad's medical school world,</i> 1675 01:02:49,766 --> 01:02:51,226 <i>met his classmates,</i> 1676 01:02:51,309 --> 01:02:52,894 <i>found more footage of him for you...</i> 1677 01:02:54,062 --> 01:02:55,397 <i>And finally,</i> 1678 01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:57,482 <i>I found myself face-to-face</i> 1679 01:02:57,565 --> 01:02:59,252 <i>with the thing that had set me on this journey</i> 1680 01:02:59,276 --> 01:03:00,193 <i>in the first place.</i> 1681 01:03:00,277 --> 01:03:01,462 One of the major things that Andrew and I 1682 01:03:01,486 --> 01:03:02,862 did together, though, uh, 1683 01:03:02,946 --> 01:03:05,490 or that we had in common was, uh, 1684 01:03:05,573 --> 01:03:06,700 photography. 1685 01:03:06,783 --> 01:03:09,077 <i>Sometimes, we'd bring the cameras out</i> 1686 01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,871 <i>and go around the lake and around the pond</i> 1687 01:03:11,955 --> 01:03:13,581 <i>and take some pictures around there.</i> 1688 01:03:13,665 --> 01:03:15,559 <i>I told Andrew, I'd say, "Listen, you're gonna have to, like,</i>" 1689 01:03:15,583 --> 01:03:17,294 <i>show me a few tricks or whatever</i> 1690 01:03:17,377 --> 01:03:18,771 <i>"and show me some of your pictures" and then-</i> 1691 01:03:18,795 --> 01:03:21,131 I'd still love to see some of the pictures that he took 1692 01:03:21,214 --> 01:03:22,608 through medical school and I've never seen 1693 01:03:22,632 --> 01:03:23,633 any of them. 1694 01:03:23,758 --> 01:03:26,011 <i>♪ Gentle piano ♪</i> 1695 01:03:44,571 --> 01:03:45,756 <i>[Anthony] Him and his dad had done quite a bit</i> 1696 01:03:45,780 --> 01:03:47,324 <i>of photography together, and, uh,</i> 1697 01:03:47,407 --> 01:03:49,200 <i>right after this happened,</i> 1698 01:03:49,284 --> 01:03:51,494 <i>fired out an email saying we should try to think of some</i> 1699 01:03:51,578 --> 01:03:53,705 <i>sort of memorial award.</i> 1700 01:03:53,788 --> 01:03:55,558 <i>And I felt like that would be something also that</i> 1701 01:03:55,582 --> 01:03:58,293 <i>his dad would really feel honored by</i> 1702 01:03:58,376 --> 01:04:00,879 <i>and then have a wall in the medical school</i> 1703 01:04:00,962 --> 01:04:02,762 <i>to be able to say, you know, year after year,</i> 1704 01:04:02,797 --> 01:04:03,983 <i>"you know, "These are the winners</i> 1705 01:04:04,007 --> 01:04:05,651 <i>and people could sit there and look and be like,</i> 1706 01:04:05,675 --> 01:04:06,736 <i>"Wow, " you know, "look at this."</i> 1707 01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:08,428 <i>I think I have a meeting tomorrow morning</i> 1708 01:04:08,511 --> 01:04:10,311 to, uh, participate in the judging tomorrow. 1709 01:04:10,847 --> 01:04:12,557 <i>I find it interesting that you say that</i> 1710 01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:14,392 <i>you hadn't heard that.</i> 1711 01:04:14,476 --> 01:04:16,519 <i>I wonder if part of it was eventually maybe</i> 1712 01:04:16,603 --> 01:04:18,188 <i>have his dad independently say,</i> 1713 01:04:18,271 --> 01:04:19,731 <i>"Oh, who took this picture?</i> 1714 01:04:19,814 --> 01:04:21,149 <i>It's a really nice picture."</i> 1715 01:04:21,232 --> 01:04:22,734 <i>And have him say, "Oh, me."</i> 1716 01:04:22,817 --> 01:04:23,818 <i>I don't know.</i> 1717 01:04:24,235 --> 01:04:25,403 <i>But ít's something he did.</i> 1718 01:04:25,487 --> 01:04:26,488 [camera bulb flash] 1719 01:04:27,197 --> 01:04:29,157 <i>[Kurt] On July 18, 2003,</i> 1720 01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:30,241 <i>you turned one.</i> 1721 01:04:34,412 --> 01:04:36,182 <i>[Kurt] Shirley decided to hold a birthday party for you</i> 1722 01:04:36,206 --> 01:04:37,248 <i>at McDonald's.</i> 1723 01:04:37,332 --> 01:04:39,417 <i>[Kate] She started to open presents.</i> 1724 01:04:39,501 --> 01:04:40,603 <i>Well, he wasn't interested in presents.</i> 1725 01:04:40,627 --> 01:04:42,337 <i>He wanted to get down.</i> 1726 01:04:42,420 --> 01:04:44,464 <i>So when he got down,</i> 1727 01:04:44,547 --> 01:04:45,840 <i>he made for me.</i> 1728 01:04:46,508 --> 01:04:48,593 <i>Shirley was very, very angry.</i> 1729 01:04:48,676 --> 01:04:50,387 <i>So she said,</i> 1730 01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:51,388 <i>"He loves you more than me.</i> 1731 01:04:51,471 --> 01:04:52,555 <i>Why don't you take him?"</i> 1732 01:05:03,191 --> 01:05:04,734 Zachary always... 1733 01:05:05,276 --> 01:05:06,778 from the time he could choose... 1734 01:05:07,695 --> 01:05:08,988 would choose Kate over her. 1735 01:05:09,072 --> 01:05:10,532 <i>[woman] That was obvious and...</i> 1736 01:05:11,116 --> 01:05:12,367 <i>other people talked about it.</i> 1737 01:05:12,450 --> 01:05:13,993 <i>[David] Kate is a</i> 1738 01:05:14,077 --> 01:05:15,870 <i>warm and loving mother.</i> 1739 01:05:16,162 --> 01:05:18,206 She was a phony mother. 1740 01:05:18,289 --> 01:05:19,332 <i>[Shirley] I love you.</i> 1741 01:05:19,707 --> 01:05:20,875 <i>Mommy loves you.</i> 1742 01:05:20,959 --> 01:05:21,793 <i>Yes, I do.</i> 1743 01:05:21,876 --> 01:05:23,002 She knew the motions, 1744 01:05:23,086 --> 01:05:24,246 but there's no warmth in her. 1745 01:05:24,295 --> 01:05:26,005 <i>[Shirley] Zachary, love you baby.</i> 1746 01:05:26,089 --> 01:05:27,382 <i>Mommy loves you.</i> 1747 01:05:27,465 --> 01:05:28,258 <i>Mommy loves you.</i> 1748 01:05:28,341 --> 01:05:29,175 She said that she had kids 1749 01:05:29,259 --> 01:05:31,195 and that she wasn't interested in living with them either. 1750 01:05:31,219 --> 01:05:32,655 Andrew said she kind of went off to medical school 1751 01:05:32,679 --> 01:05:33,697 - and left them. - [woman] And she said 1752 01:05:33,721 --> 01:05:35,223 <i>that they lived with their fathers</i> 1753 01:05:35,306 --> 01:05:36,700 <i>and she said that children were more</i> 1754 01:05:36,724 --> 01:05:38,059 <i>trouble than they were worth.</i> 1755 01:05:38,143 --> 01:05:40,063 <i>[Vero] I believe she's using her own children now</i> 1756 01:05:40,103 --> 01:05:42,021 <i>to manipulate the system</i> 1757 01:05:42,105 --> 01:05:44,524 <i>and to make Kate and David suffer.</i> 1758 01:05:44,607 --> 01:05:45,942 <i>Even if she goes to jail.</i> 1759 01:05:46,192 --> 01:05:47,832 Fortunately, there are enough people here 1760 01:05:47,902 --> 01:05:50,071 who are in the, uh, in the system, 1761 01:05:50,155 --> 01:05:52,699 the justice system, the child protection system... 1762 01:05:52,782 --> 01:05:54,701 that I know personally who... 1763 01:05:55,034 --> 01:05:56,453 have told me 1764 01:05:56,536 --> 01:05:57,787 that that will not happen. 1765 01:05:58,204 --> 01:05:59,765 <i>[Kurt] The next hearing in the extradition process</i> 1766 01:05:59,789 --> 01:06:01,499 <i>was set for September 25th,</i> 1767 01:06:01,583 --> 01:06:03,376 <i>your dad's 30th birthday,</i> 1768 01:06:03,460 --> 01:06:04,979 <i>where she would likely be re-incarcerated</i> 1769 01:06:05,003 --> 01:06:07,172 <i>and at last, returned to the U. S. for trial.</i> 1770 01:06:07,881 --> 01:06:08,756 <i>But for now,</i> 1771 01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:10,633 <i>it was time for me to go home.</i> 1772 01:06:10,717 --> 01:06:12,010 <i>I have to say bye-by now?</i> 1773 01:06:12,093 --> 01:06:12,969 Gonna say bye-bye? 1774 01:06:13,052 --> 01:06:14,387 Bye-bye to your Uncle Kurt. 1775 01:06:14,471 --> 01:06:15,680 Can you give him a hug? 1776 01:06:15,763 --> 01:06:16,848 Can I have a hug? 1777 01:06:16,931 --> 01:06:17,950 [David] Grab him and take it. 1778 01:06:17,974 --> 01:06:19,601 [blows raspberries] 1779 01:06:20,977 --> 01:06:21,978 Was that funny? 1780 01:06:22,061 --> 01:06:22,812 Was that funny? 1781 01:06:22,896 --> 01:06:23,980 Bye-bye, sweet pea. 1782 01:06:24,063 --> 01:06:24,981 Bye-bye, sweet pea. 1783 01:06:25,064 --> 01:06:26,566 I'll see you later, buddy. 1784 01:06:26,649 --> 01:06:28,489 You'll be a little bigger next time I see you. 1785 01:06:28,568 --> 01:06:29,753 [Danette] He had just completed 1786 01:06:29,777 --> 01:06:31,779 the child health checks that they do. 1787 01:06:31,863 --> 01:06:33,531 He's head of his time, he's doing great. 1788 01:06:33,615 --> 01:06:34,991 He's up to par on everything, 1789 01:06:35,074 --> 01:06:37,368 but, err, he doesn't like to wave goodbye. 1790 01:06:37,452 --> 01:06:38,452 [Kurt] Bye-bye. 1791 01:06:38,661 --> 01:06:39,412 Bye-bye. 1792 01:06:39,496 --> 01:06:40,413 Bye-bye-bye, bye-bye- 1793 01:06:40,497 --> 01:06:41,331 <i>[Danette] One of them said,</i> 1794 01:06:41,414 --> 01:06:42,790 <i>"That's fine because, you know,</i> 1795 01:06:42,874 --> 01:06:44,351 <i>he's got lots of time to I earn that."</i> 1796 01:06:44,375 --> 01:06:45,811 <i>[Kurt] Is there anything you'd like to say to Zachary?</i> 1797 01:06:45,835 --> 01:06:46,854 <i>[man] I'm hoping that I'm gong to have</i> 1798 01:06:46,878 --> 01:06:49,255 <i>all the opportunity to say those things to Zachary.</i> 1799 01:06:53,176 --> 01:06:55,720 <i>[Kate] We had been out, we came back here,</i> 1800 01:06:55,803 --> 01:06:57,889 <i>there was a little card in the door</i> 1801 01:06:57,972 --> 01:06:59,933 <i>from Constable Walsh</i> 1802 01:07:00,016 --> 01:07:01,976 saying that would we contact him. 1803 01:07:02,060 --> 01:07:02,810 I was here. 1804 01:07:02,894 --> 01:07:03,645 Mark and I were here. 1805 01:07:03,728 --> 01:07:04,562 I was at my house. 1806 01:07:04,646 --> 01:07:05,396 I was home 1807 01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:08,024 watching the six o'clock NTV News 1808 01:07:08,107 --> 01:07:08,858 and... 1809 01:07:08,942 --> 01:07:10,222 the next thing, I saw a picture 1810 01:07:10,276 --> 01:07:11,277 <i>of Shirley and Zachary</i> 1811 01:07:11,361 --> 01:07:12,445 <i>and saying that-</i> 1812 01:07:13,071 --> 01:07:13,863 <i>They were missing</i> 1813 01:07:13,947 --> 01:07:15,448 and I was just screaming 1814 01:07:15,532 --> 01:07:16,616 at the top of my lungs. 1815 01:07:16,699 --> 01:07:18,368 And I immediately fell to the floor. 1816 01:07:18,451 --> 01:07:20,620 I immediately went over to their apartment. 1817 01:07:20,703 --> 01:07:21,579 - And we came here. - So we just left 1818 01:07:21,663 --> 01:07:22,848 and got in the car and went over there. 1819 01:07:22,872 --> 01:07:24,225 <i>[Kate] Our vicar came by because he'd heard-</i> 1820 01:07:24,249 --> 01:07:25,434 I'll never forget that moment. 1821 01:07:25,458 --> 01:07:26,376 They're gonna find them, they're gonna be okay. 1822 01:07:26,459 --> 01:07:27,377 You're overreacting. 1823 01:07:27,460 --> 01:07:28,378 You're gonna think the worst. 1824 01:07:28,461 --> 01:07:29,813 You know, she's probably gone for a- 1825 01:07:29,837 --> 01:07:31,548 My first thought was that she had left. 1826 01:07:31,631 --> 01:07:32,840 <i>She had taken him and run.</i> 1827 01:07:32,924 --> 01:07:33,758 <i>[Jackie] She wouldn't do that.</i> 1828 01:07:33,841 --> 01:07:34,717 She couldn't possibly do that. 1829 01:07:34,801 --> 01:07:36,111 There was about two or three hours of 1830 01:07:36,135 --> 01:07:37,135 uncertainty or- 1831 01:07:37,178 --> 01:07:38,763 Emotion was overwhelming. 1832 01:07:43,101 --> 01:07:43,851 <i>They called us and told us</i> 1833 01:07:43,935 --> 01:07:45,287 <i>that they were doing a search of the beach</i> 1834 01:07:45,311 --> 01:07:46,604 <i>out in Conception Bay South.</i> 1835 01:07:46,688 --> 01:07:47,998 I thought, "They doing that for a reason ." 1836 01:07:48,022 --> 01:07:49,302 <i>[Danette] I had received a call.</i> 1837 01:07:49,357 --> 01:07:50,877 They were having a press conference on 1838 01:07:50,942 --> 01:07:51,859 <i>the Turner case.</i> 1839 01:07:51,943 --> 01:07:52,777 I went to Father Chris. 1840 01:07:52,860 --> 01:07:53,736 <i>I just whispered to him,</i> 1841 01:07:53,820 --> 01:07:54,904 <i>"I think you better stay,"</i> 1842 01:07:55,196 --> 01:07:56,632 <i>because I think I'm gonna be coming back here</i> 1843 01:07:56,656 --> 01:07:57,740 <i>"with some really bad news."</i> 1844 01:07:57,824 --> 01:07:59,742 He told me that they had found a baby. 1845 01:08:01,619 --> 01:08:02,620 <i>Along with an adult.</i> 1846 01:08:02,704 --> 01:08:04,098 <i>I knew then that it was two bodies.</i> 1847 01:08:04,122 --> 01:08:05,766 They were working to identify the bodies and- 1848 01:08:05,790 --> 01:08:07,458 [unintelligible] [doorbell rings] 1849 01:08:07,542 --> 01:08:08,918 <i>[Kate] We came to the door</i> 1850 01:08:09,002 --> 01:08:10,920 <i>and it was Jackie and Constable Walsh.</i> 1851 01:08:11,004 --> 01:08:12,204 <i>And I was saying, "Oh my gosh,</i> 1852 01:08:12,255 --> 01:08:14,299 somebody's with them now trying to tell them ." 1853 01:08:14,382 --> 01:08:15,717 They went in and I told them. 1854 01:08:17,510 --> 01:08:18,510 <i>And...</i> 1855 01:08:18,553 --> 01:08:19,637 what I saw after that, 1856 01:08:19,721 --> 01:08:21,347 I will never forget in my life. 1857 01:08:26,102 --> 01:08:28,062 [screaming] 1858 01:08:28,730 --> 01:08:30,732 <i>[David] Great absolute vicious rage.</i> 1859 01:08:30,815 --> 01:08:32,293 Someone has done that to someone you love. 1860 01:08:32,317 --> 01:08:33,877 If the person who did this had been here, 1861 01:08:33,901 --> 01:08:34,902 I'd kill them. 1862 01:08:37,113 --> 01:08:38,382 Period, no questions, kill them. 1863 01:08:38,406 --> 01:08:39,466 Strangle that fucking bitch 1864 01:08:39,490 --> 01:08:40,491 <i>right here, right now,</i> 1865 01:08:40,575 --> 01:08:41,815 <i>period, no question, kill them.</i> 1866 01:08:41,951 --> 01:08:43,703 [disorienting noises] 1867 01:08:50,627 --> 01:08:52,545 <i>[Kate] And then, we went to have to identify him</i> 1868 01:08:52,629 --> 01:08:54,088 <i>and we couldn't touch him...</i> 1869 01:08:54,839 --> 01:08:56,924 <i>because they said he was forensic.</i> 1870 01:08:57,008 --> 01:08:59,302 <i>[David] He hadn't been through the autopsy yet.</i> 1871 01:08:59,385 --> 01:09:01,721 There was this table and... 1872 01:09:01,804 --> 01:09:03,931 saw the white sheets up all around him but 1873 01:09:04,015 --> 01:09:05,391 with a white sheet over a body, 1874 01:09:05,475 --> 01:09:06,392 you could see over sheets. 1875 01:09:06,476 --> 01:09:07,644 Clearly, it was his- 1876 01:09:07,727 --> 01:09:08,519 <i>it was him.</i> 1877 01:09:08,603 --> 01:09:09,854 It's really him. 1878 01:09:12,357 --> 01:09:13,441 [soft crying] 1879 01:09:13,524 --> 01:09:15,610 <i>And then Kate's legs quit.</i> 1880 01:09:15,693 --> 01:09:17,171 <i>She just went straight to the floor and-</i> 1881 01:09:17,195 --> 01:09:18,446 <i>David was...</i> 1882 01:09:18,529 --> 01:09:20,239 <i>lying on top of Kate on the floor</i> 1883 01:09:20,323 --> 01:09:21,425 and we managed to get him out. 1884 01:09:21,449 --> 01:09:22,909 I don't know how we did it, Kurt. 1885 01:09:23,618 --> 01:09:25,328 I don't know how I got out myself. 1886 01:09:27,121 --> 01:09:28,289 Their poor little baby. 1887 01:09:29,457 --> 01:09:31,417 The summary of the evidence 1888 01:09:31,501 --> 01:09:33,211 against Shirley Turner. 1889 01:09:33,294 --> 01:09:34,128 <i>[Kurt] Part two.</i> 1890 01:09:34,212 --> 01:09:35,588 <i>In July of 2003,</i> 1891 01:09:35,672 --> 01:09:36,923 <i>Shirley met a man at a bar</i> 1892 01:09:37,006 --> 01:09:38,341 <i>in downtown St. John 's.</i> 1893 01:09:38,424 --> 01:09:39,175 <i>They went out twice</i> 1894 01:09:39,258 --> 01:09:41,028 <i>until his friends showed him articles on the web</i> 1895 01:09:41,052 --> 01:09:43,137 <i>saying she was accused of killing her last boyfriend.</i> 1896 01:09:43,221 --> 01:09:45,098 <i>He told her he didn’t want to see her anymore.</i> 1897 01:09:45,431 --> 01:09:47,725 <i>She then called and left over 200 messages on his phone</i> 1898 01:09:47,809 --> 01:09:49,370 <i>including one saying that she was pregnant</i> 1899 01:09:49,394 --> 01:09:50,770 <i>and that he needed to-</i> 1900 01:09:50,853 --> 01:09:52,706 <i>[David] Step up to the plate and be a fucking man.</i> 1901 01:09:52,730 --> 01:09:54,565 <i>[Kurt] She wasn't, as her autopsy showed.</i> 1902 01:09:54,649 --> 01:09:55,817 <i>The night she killed you,</i> 1903 01:09:55,900 --> 01:09:57,252 <i>she made a phony phone call from her apartment</i> 1904 01:09:57,276 --> 01:09:58,504 <i>to a friend’s answering machine</i> 1905 01:09:58,528 --> 01:10:00,655 <i>claiming to be at this man's house with you.</i> 1906 01:10:00,738 --> 01:10:03,533 <i>She took your brother TJ's car at about 11:38 that night</i> 1907 01:10:03,616 --> 01:10:05,034 <i>and drove to the man's house.</i> 1908 01:10:05,284 --> 01:10:07,596 <i>She got lost along the way and asked a woman for directions</i> 1909 01:10:07,620 --> 01:10:09,706 <i>along this road around 12:45 AM.</i> 1910 01:10:09,789 --> 01:10:11,040 <i>She parked behind his house,</i> 1911 01:10:11,124 --> 01:10:12,810 <i>left a used tampon and photos of the two of you</i> 1912 01:10:12,834 --> 01:10:14,585 <i>on his property, completing her attempt</i> 1913 01:10:14,669 --> 01:10:16,838 <i>to frame this man for what she was about to do,</i> 1914 01:10:16,921 --> 01:10:18,965 <i>then took you down to the ocean behind his home.</i> 1915 01:10:19,048 --> 01:10:21,193 <i>A night watchman the area thought he heard a baby crying</i> 1916 01:10:21,217 --> 01:10:23,010 <i>in the distance around 2:30 AM.</i> 1917 01:10:23,094 --> 01:10:24,971 <i>Shirley took her prescription for Ativan</i> 1918 01:10:25,054 --> 01:10:27,140 <i>prescribed to her by psychiatrist Jean Do us set,</i> 1919 01:10:27,223 --> 01:10:29,767 <i>mixed it into your formula, then took some herself.</i> 1920 01:10:29,851 --> 01:10:31,203 <i>The only good thing we know about this</i> 1921 01:10:31,227 --> 01:10:32,413 <i>is that you were not conscious</i> 1922 01:10:32,437 --> 01:10:33,479 <i>and you did not suffer.</i> 1923 01:10:33,563 --> 01:10:34,564 <i>She then-</i> 1924 01:10:34,856 --> 01:10:36,291 <i>she then walked to the edge of a pier</i> 1925 01:10:36,315 --> 01:10:38,252 <i>and with you strapped to her stomach with a sweater,</i> 1926 01:10:38,276 --> 01:10:39,777 <i>she jumped into the Atlantic Ocean.</i> 1927 01:10:39,861 --> 01:10:41,654 [splash] 1928 01:10:42,447 --> 01:10:43,573 <i>[Shirley] Mommy loves you.</i> 1929 01:10:44,574 --> 01:10:45,491 <i>Yes, I do.</i> 1930 01:10:45,575 --> 01:10:46,701 <i>Mommy loves you.</i> 1931 01:10:46,784 --> 01:10:47,994 <i>Did you have a nice nap?</i> 1932 01:10:48,411 --> 01:10:49,537 <i>What did you dream about?</i> 1933 01:10:49,620 --> 01:10:51,330 <i>Mommy loves you.</i> 1934 01:10:51,414 --> 01:10:52,957 <i>Mommy misses you.</i> 1935 01:10:58,713 --> 01:11:00,381 <i>[Kate] He was found face upwards</i> 1936 01:11:00,465 --> 01:11:02,592 <i>with his eyes wide open</i> 1937 01:11:02,675 --> 01:11:05,094 <i>and the policeman who found him</i> 1938 01:11:05,178 --> 01:11:06,637 <i>said that, um,</i> 1939 01:11:06,721 --> 01:11:07,865 <i>he had wrapped him in a blanket</i> 1940 01:11:07,889 --> 01:11:10,266 <i>rather than a plastic bag and, uh,</i> 1941 01:11:10,349 --> 01:11:12,059 <i>he and another officer</i> 1942 01:11:12,143 --> 01:11:13,853 <i>carried him gently back</i> 1943 01:11:13,936 --> 01:11:16,189 <i>and he made very sure that he kept the body</i> 1944 01:11:16,272 --> 01:11:17,982 <i>very far away from the wicked woman</i> 1945 01:11:18,065 --> 01:11:19,317 <i>who had murdered him.</i> 1946 01:11:25,698 --> 01:11:27,200 <i>When we came here,</i> 1947 01:11:27,283 --> 01:11:29,619 <i>David and I realized what Shirley Turner was.</i> 1948 01:11:29,702 --> 01:11:31,621 <i>She was the devil.</i> 1949 01:11:31,704 --> 01:11:34,081 <i>But people think that you're some kind of</i> 1950 01:11:34,165 --> 01:11:35,666 <i>basic religious nut</i> 1951 01:11:35,750 --> 01:11:37,001 <i>if you believe in the devil.</i> 1952 01:11:37,084 --> 01:11:38,228 <i>[woman] I haven't prayed since Zachary died.</i> 1953 01:11:38,252 --> 01:11:39,504 <i>I haven't-</i> 1954 01:11:39,587 --> 01:11:40,898 I have some issues that I have to deal with, I- 1955 01:11:40,922 --> 01:11:43,132 You know, my faith has been tested by this. 1956 01:11:45,301 --> 01:11:46,719 <i>[woman] It was a beautiful service.</i> 1957 01:11:47,678 --> 01:11:49,472 <i>A real tribute to the little boy.</i> 1958 01:11:49,555 --> 01:11:50,908 Oh, I don't know how many people were here. 1959 01:11:50,932 --> 01:11:52,934 Probably three or 400 people, maybe more. 1960 01:11:53,017 --> 01:11:53,810 I don't-I don't recall. 1961 01:11:53,893 --> 01:11:55,478 I've never seen a coffin... 1962 01:11:55,853 --> 01:11:57,188 so small before. 1963 01:12:00,691 --> 01:12:02,652 They shouldn't have them that size. 1964 01:12:04,612 --> 01:12:06,155 <i>He was in his little suit,</i> 1965 01:12:06,239 --> 01:12:08,407 <i>[unintelligible]</i> 1966 01:12:09,033 --> 01:12:09,909 <i>[Kurt] What went in it?</i> 1967 01:12:09,992 --> 01:12:11,869 <i>[Heather] What went in it? His little ball...</i> 1968 01:12:11,953 --> 01:12:13,704 <i>and...</i> 1969 01:12:13,788 --> 01:12:15,623 <i>I don't remember if she put a truck in.</i> 1970 01:12:16,290 --> 01:12:19,627 <i>Lots of kisses and hugs and tears went in it.</i> 1971 01:12:25,466 --> 01:12:26,843 Lot's of hopes and dreams. 1972 01:12:32,807 --> 01:12:34,847 <i>[Kurt] Your grandma and grandpa went back to England</i> 1973 01:12:34,892 --> 01:12:36,644 <i>and spread your ashes with your dad's.</i> 1974 01:12:37,186 --> 01:12:38,938 <i>They went back to St. Louis</i> 1975 01:12:39,021 --> 01:12:40,898 <i>and spread your ashes with your dad's.</i> 1976 01:12:40,982 --> 01:12:42,650 <i>[Kate] [crying] I didn’t go with him.</i> 1977 01:12:43,484 --> 01:12:44,962 [Kurt] Andrew wanted to be great cremated. 1978 01:12:44,986 --> 01:12:45,987 Oh, yes. 1979 01:12:46,070 --> 01:12:47,572 -Yes, it- -What bothers Kate is 1980 01:12:47,655 --> 01:12:49,115 that she did not go with him 1981 01:12:49,198 --> 01:12:50,074 to the crematorium 1982 01:12:50,157 --> 01:12:51,868 and stay with him right to the end. 1983 01:12:51,951 --> 01:12:53,286 He went from the funeral home 1984 01:12:53,369 --> 01:12:55,454 to the crematorium all alone... 1985 01:12:55,538 --> 01:12:57,623 in plastic bags. 1986 01:12:59,792 --> 01:13:02,879 [crying] With only his head sticking out. 1987 01:13:04,630 --> 01:13:05,798 Come on, Kate. 1988 01:13:08,885 --> 01:13:10,803 He wouldn't care about that. 1989 01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:14,015 [cries] 1990 01:13:15,266 --> 01:13:16,642 That's why we went right up 1991 01:13:16,726 --> 01:13:19,312 to the oven doors with Zachary. 1992 01:13:25,067 --> 01:13:26,485 [cries] 1993 01:13:28,487 --> 01:13:30,990 This is what that fucking bitch didn't know. 1994 01:13:32,033 --> 01:13:33,159 Or maybe she did know 1995 01:13:33,242 --> 01:13:34,493 this is what she's leaving. 1996 01:13:39,832 --> 01:13:41,208 Maybe she did know. 1997 01:13:42,418 --> 01:13:43,645 If she thought about it at all, 1998 01:13:43,669 --> 01:13:45,421 she didn't give a good goddamn. 1999 01:13:48,466 --> 01:13:50,176 And this is what I hate her for. 2000 01:13:52,470 --> 01:13:54,055 I hate her for a lot of things. 2001 01:13:54,639 --> 01:13:55,999 Stealing the rest of Andrew's life 2002 01:13:56,057 --> 01:13:57,600 and virtually all of Zachary's life 2003 01:13:57,683 --> 01:13:58,851 and then this. 2004 01:14:00,227 --> 01:14:01,604 Leaving us like this. 2005 01:14:04,315 --> 01:14:06,901 <i>A couple of times, lying in there in bed at night...</i> 2006 01:14:07,318 --> 01:14:08,945 <i>I considered...</i> 2007 01:14:09,570 --> 01:14:11,739 fixing the problem myself. 2008 01:14:11,822 --> 01:14:14,033 Pick a night when Kate took a sleeping pill, 2009 01:14:14,116 --> 01:14:15,785 so she wouldn't know I was up. 2010 01:14:17,703 --> 01:14:18,889 Get up in the middle of the night 2011 01:14:18,913 --> 01:14:20,831 dream up a pretext, go kill Shirley, 2012 01:14:20,915 --> 01:14:22,416 and come back and go back to bed. 2013 01:14:22,500 --> 01:14:23,668 So Kate would not know. 2014 01:14:24,502 --> 01:14:26,045 That way... 2015 01:14:26,128 --> 01:14:27,880 number one, she could not harm Zachary 2016 01:14:28,923 --> 01:14:30,466 And number two, 2017 01:14:30,549 --> 01:14:32,093 even if they did catch me at it 2018 01:14:32,176 --> 01:14:34,457 I'm-I'm the first one they'd come looking for, of course. 2019 01:14:34,512 --> 01:14:36,013 But Kate could truthfully say 2020 01:14:36,097 --> 01:14:37,324 she didn't know that I was doing it. 2021 01:14:37,348 --> 01:14:39,141 So she might still get to... 2022 01:14:39,934 --> 01:14:41,519 bring up Zachary, get him started 2023 01:14:41,602 --> 01:14:43,688 even if I go to-go to prison in Canada. 2024 01:14:43,771 --> 01:14:45,331 We've worked through the possibilities. 2025 01:14:46,190 --> 01:14:47,190 Ad nauseam. 2026 01:14:47,233 --> 01:14:49,110 <i>Suppose we grab Zachary and run.</i> 2027 01:14:49,193 --> 01:14:50,712 <i>Number one, we got to get off the island</i> 2028 01:14:50,736 --> 01:14:51,862 <i>and into the land.</i> 2029 01:14:51,946 --> 01:14:53,548 The big, uh, drawback against living here 2030 01:14:53,572 --> 01:14:54,782 is getting out of here. 2031 01:14:54,865 --> 01:14:56,426 <i>[David] There's only three ways to do that:</i> 2032 01:14:56,450 --> 01:14:58,077 <i>ferry, boat, airplane.</i> 2033 01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:00,454 <i>The airplane and the ferry would be covered</i> 2034 01:15:00,538 --> 01:15:02,164 as soon as Zachary's missing. 2035 01:15:02,248 --> 01:15:04,583 We'd have to hire a boat somehow 2036 01:15:04,667 --> 01:15:05,852 <i>which means you take in a third party</i> 2037 01:15:05,876 --> 01:15:07,503 <i>to the crime of kidnapping.</i> 2038 01:15:07,586 --> 01:15:08,504 We can't go home. 2039 01:15:08,587 --> 01:15:11,215 <i>We cannot ever identify ourselves</i> 2040 01:15:11,298 --> 01:15:12,341 <i>as ourselves.</i> 2041 01:15:12,425 --> 01:15:15,344 Have cash only stashed all around the country. 2042 01:15:15,428 --> 01:15:18,180 <i>Zachary would never be allowed to know his family,</i> 2043 01:15:18,264 --> 01:15:19,181 <i>our friends.</i> 2044 01:15:19,265 --> 01:15:21,267 <i>So, that path...</i> 2045 01:15:22,018 --> 01:15:24,603 Big, big, big, big risk with a-with a horrible life. 2046 01:15:24,687 --> 01:15:25,688 So that's out. 2047 01:15:25,771 --> 01:15:27,481 Legal approaches we might have taken: 2048 01:15:27,565 --> 01:15:28,566 invent something, 2049 01:15:28,649 --> 01:15:30,317 file affidavits, saying, you know, 2050 01:15:30,401 --> 01:15:32,028 Shirley slipped one night 2051 01:15:32,111 --> 01:15:35,031 and we were around and said a threat of some kind 2052 01:15:35,114 --> 01:15:37,116 that might get her incarcerated. 2053 01:15:37,199 --> 01:15:39,118 But that would just be our word against hers. 2054 01:15:39,201 --> 01:15:41,787 The best shot we had 2055 01:15:41,871 --> 01:15:43,748 at keeping Zachary alive 2056 01:15:43,831 --> 01:15:46,292 was I kill her myself. 2057 01:15:46,375 --> 01:15:47,501 Other than doing that, 2058 01:15:47,585 --> 01:15:49,795 I can think of no other way... 2059 01:15:50,921 --> 01:15:52,673 to save Zachary from that bitch. 2060 01:15:54,216 --> 01:15:55,301 [sighs] 2061 01:15:56,135 --> 01:15:57,344 [laughs] 2062 01:15:59,597 --> 01:16:01,557 There's a logic in it. [laughs] 2063 01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:03,100 But I didn't do it. 2064 01:16:03,517 --> 01:16:05,603 Because I trusted government to do its job. 2065 01:16:05,686 --> 01:16:07,229 Government is supposed to stop that, 2066 01:16:07,313 --> 01:16:09,065 so I don't have to do it personally. 2067 01:16:09,148 --> 01:16:10,834 In this case, they didn't even get her off the street 2068 01:16:10,858 --> 01:16:12,461 and they even gave her a baby to look after. 2069 01:16:12,485 --> 01:16:15,446 My understanding is that the proper protocols were followed. 2070 01:16:15,529 --> 01:16:17,406 I have asked my officials to, uh- 2071 01:16:17,490 --> 01:16:19,408 did ask him some time ago to... 2072 01:16:19,492 --> 01:16:20,844 follow up with the-with the board 2073 01:16:20,868 --> 01:16:22,411 to see, in fact, that, uh, 2074 01:16:22,495 --> 01:16:24,997 everything, uh, all the proper protocols had been adhered to. 2075 01:16:25,081 --> 01:16:27,208 <i>They were gambling Zachary's life,</i> 2076 01:16:27,291 --> 01:16:28,793 <i>they were gambling with the lives of</i> 2077 01:16:28,876 --> 01:16:30,628 <i>anyone in the general population</i> 2078 01:16:30,711 --> 01:16:32,213 <i>that Shirley came in contact with.</i> 2079 01:16:32,296 --> 01:16:35,257 <i>We the-the vast majority of good people</i> 2080 01:16:35,341 --> 01:16:36,675 <i>who don't kill people...</i> 2081 01:16:36,759 --> 01:16:37,635 are stuck. 2082 01:16:37,718 --> 01:16:38,719 We got nowhere to go. 2083 01:16:38,803 --> 01:16:40,429 We figured we'd hold a press conference 2084 01:16:40,513 --> 01:16:42,389 and try to push for... 2085 01:16:42,473 --> 01:16:43,307 changes in law. 2086 01:16:43,390 --> 01:16:44,767 So the morning that we had 2087 01:16:44,850 --> 01:16:46,036 scheduled the press conference, 2088 01:16:46,060 --> 01:16:48,604 I was in the shower and Kate came in with the phone. 2089 01:16:48,687 --> 01:16:49,605 It's Jackie. 2090 01:16:49,688 --> 01:16:51,774 She says, "We can't hold a press conference. 2091 01:16:51,857 --> 01:16:53,651 Technically, there is still a press... 2092 01:16:53,734 --> 01:16:55,402 ban in place." 2093 01:16:55,486 --> 01:16:56,779 I said, "Fuck 'em fuck 'em ." 2094 01:16:56,862 --> 01:16:59,198 If they're willing to lock me up for talking 2095 01:16:59,281 --> 01:17:00,991 while they let murderers walk around free, 2096 01:17:01,075 --> 01:17:02,243 "just fuck 'em ." 2097 01:17:02,326 --> 01:17:04,870 We believe that Shirley Turner bears 100 percent 2098 01:17:04,954 --> 01:17:06,580 of the responsibility 2099 01:17:06,664 --> 01:17:08,290 for the murder of our son, Andrew. 2100 01:17:08,374 --> 01:17:10,292 <i>We believe that the legal system</i> 2101 01:17:10,376 --> 01:17:12,670 <i>helped her to kill our grandson, Zachary,</i> 2102 01:17:12,753 --> 01:17:14,964 <i>When Shirley Turner was formally charged</i> 2103 01:17:15,047 --> 01:17:16,507 <i>and escaped to Canada.</i> 2104 01:17:16,590 --> 01:17:19,051 <i>We naively thought she would be sent back to Pennsylvania</i> 2105 01:17:19,135 --> 01:17:20,928 <i>within a few weeks at the most.</i> 2106 01:17:21,011 --> 01:17:23,055 <i>When we learned that she was out on bail</i> 2107 01:17:23,139 --> 01:17:25,099 <i>under an order from Justice David Russell,</i> 2108 01:17:25,182 --> 01:17:26,809 <i>we were numb!</i> 2109 01:17:26,892 --> 01:17:27,726 <i>Numb!</i> 2110 01:17:27,810 --> 01:17:29,788 <i>[over phone] Good afternoon, Judge Russell's office.</i> 2111 01:17:29,812 --> 01:17:30,997 <i>[Kurt] I'm a, uh, documentary filmmaker.</i> 2112 01:17:31,021 --> 01:17:31,897 And I'm doing a, uh, documentary 2113 01:17:31,981 --> 01:17:33,858 about the Zachary Turner case and was curious- 2114 01:17:33,941 --> 01:17:35,544 <i>[over phone] I think all he might have done one time</i> 2115 01:17:35,568 --> 01:17:36,861 <i>was probably a bail review.</i> 2116 01:17:36,944 --> 01:17:38,130 <i>Is that what you're calling about?</i> 2117 01:17:38,154 --> 01:17:40,074 Yeah, It was December 12, 2001 actually, yeah. 2118 01:17:40,156 --> 01:17:40,990 <i>[over phone] Oh, okay.</i> 2119 01:17:41,073 --> 01:17:42,074 <i>Judge Russell was sorry,</i> 2120 01:17:42,158 --> 01:17:43,678 <i>but he won't be able to be interviewed</i> 2121 01:17:43,742 --> 01:17:45,119 <i>in connection with that matter.</i> 2122 01:17:45,202 --> 01:17:46,429 <i>[Kurt] Crown prosecutor Mike Madden</i> 2123 01:17:46,453 --> 01:17:47,764 <i>didn’t even argue against her release</i> 2124 01:17:47,788 --> 01:17:49,290 <i>on bail that day and instead</i> 2125 01:17:49,373 --> 01:17:50,559 <i>entered the courtroom with an agreement</i> 2126 01:17:50,583 --> 01:17:51,768 <i>already in place for her release.</i> 2127 01:17:51,792 --> 01:17:52,960 <i>[Mike] Mike Madden speaking.</i> 2128 01:17:53,043 --> 01:17:54,229 <i>[Kurt] I'm a, um, documentary filmmaker</i> 2129 01:17:54,253 --> 01:17:55,880 <i>who was, uh, a friend of Andrew Bagby.</i> 2130 01:17:55,963 --> 01:17:58,132 - [Mike] Yes. - Wondering if you would 2131 01:17:58,215 --> 01:18:00,009 be, uh, interested interviewed for my- 2132 01:18:00,092 --> 01:18:00,926 <i>[Mike] No, I don't think so.</i> 2133 01:18:01,010 --> 01:18:03,196 <i>[Kurt] Not one penny of her bail sureties had to be paid</i> 2134 01:18:03,220 --> 01:18:05,347 <i>by anyone who signed, nor do they have to show proof</i> 2135 01:18:05,431 --> 01:18:06,182 <i>of ability to pay.</i> 2136 01:18:06,265 --> 01:18:07,099 <i>[Kate] No money's put up.</i> 2137 01:18:07,183 --> 01:18:07,975 No money at all. 2138 01:18:08,058 --> 01:18:08,809 It's useless. 2139 01:18:08,893 --> 01:18:10,579 Yeah, they could have put 20 cents or 20 million dollars, 2140 01:18:10,603 --> 01:18:11,621 it wouldn't make any difference. 2141 01:18:11,645 --> 01:18:13,189 Her psychiatrist put up the the 65 2142 01:18:13,272 --> 01:18:14,792 <i>and that's another issue all together.</i> 2143 01:18:15,191 --> 01:18:16,918 <i>[over phone] Hi, you've reached Dr. Doucet's office.</i> 2144 01:18:16,942 --> 01:18:18,986 <i>Please leave your name telephone number</i> 2145 01:18:19,069 --> 01:18:20,404 <i>and a brief message. [beep]</i> 2146 01:18:20,487 --> 01:18:21,989 Hi, I'm calling for Dr. Doucet. 2147 01:18:22,072 --> 01:18:23,199 <i>My call was not returned.</i> 2148 01:18:23,282 --> 01:18:25,618 <i>[David] Time, we thought it was all about time.</i> 2149 01:18:25,701 --> 01:18:27,745 <i>Each step in the extradition process,</i> 2150 01:18:27,828 --> 01:18:29,788 <i>each incomprehensible delay.</i> 2151 01:18:29,872 --> 01:18:31,957 <i>Four weeks, six weeks, over and over again.</i> 2152 01:18:32,041 --> 01:18:33,959 <i>There was another knife in our guts.</i> 2153 01:18:34,043 --> 01:18:36,754 <i>"The law is slow," they told us and it was.</i> 2154 01:18:36,837 --> 01:18:39,673 <i>Our lawyer Jackie went to see Betty Day,</i> 2155 01:18:39,757 --> 01:18:42,009 <i>an administrator somewhere in the hierarchy of</i> 2156 01:18:42,092 --> 01:18:47,014 Child Protective Services and told her that we are concerned 2157 01:18:47,097 --> 01:18:50,392 about the safety of the baby because the mother is accused 2158 01:18:50,476 --> 01:18:53,437 of a premeditated murder and... 2159 01:18:54,188 --> 01:18:55,231 nothing happened. 2160 01:18:55,314 --> 01:18:56,791 <i>[over phone] Hello, Department f Health and Community Services.</i> 2161 01:18:56,815 --> 01:18:59,151 Hi, I'm trying to reach Elizabeth Day. 2162 01:18:59,235 --> 01:19:01,779 <i>[automated] Elizabeth Day is not available.</i> 2163 01:19:01,862 --> 01:19:04,448 <i>Please record your message.</i> 2164 01:19:04,531 --> 01:19:05,991 <i>[Kurt] My call was not returned.</i> 2165 01:19:06,075 --> 01:19:08,410 If you were in the Family Health Services, 2166 01:19:08,494 --> 01:19:10,579 wouldn't you want to know who this accused murderer 2167 01:19:10,663 --> 01:19:12,790 was arranging for her baby to stay with? 2168 01:19:12,873 --> 01:19:14,333 Nobody ever came to see us. 2169 01:19:14,416 --> 01:19:16,728 Even before we left Sunnyvale, we got a police report that said 2170 01:19:16,752 --> 01:19:17,962 <i>that we were good people.</i> 2171 01:19:18,045 --> 01:19:20,339 <i>Friends and my employer were set</i> 2172 01:19:20,422 --> 01:19:23,842 <i>to write letters that we were upright members of the community.</i> 2173 01:19:23,926 --> 01:19:25,427 <i>Nobody asked us for that.</i> 2174 01:19:25,511 --> 01:19:27,554 We could have been convicted child molesters 2175 01:19:27,638 --> 01:19:28,764 in California 2176 01:19:29,348 --> 01:19:30,909 - They didn't care. - Nobody would have known. 2177 01:19:30,933 --> 01:19:32,494 <i>[Kurt] She wrote directly to Judge Derek Greene</i> 2178 01:19:32,518 --> 01:19:34,687 <i>who responded through his secretary with instructions</i> 2179 01:19:34,770 --> 01:19:36,331 <i>on how to write her own appeal of his decision</i> 2180 01:19:36,355 --> 01:19:37,398 <i>to incarcerate her.</i> 2181 01:19:37,481 --> 01:19:38,721 <i>- [Derek] Mr. Kenny? - [Kurt] Yes?</i> 2182 01:19:38,774 --> 01:19:40,085 <i>[Derek] This is Chief Justice Greene.</i> 2183 01:19:40,109 --> 01:19:41,694 <i>What I did is...</i> 2184 01:19:41,777 --> 01:19:44,029 <i>on the record, speaks for itself.</i> 2185 01:19:44,113 --> 01:19:45,239 Okay, okay. 2186 01:19:45,322 --> 01:19:47,908 <i>[David] Under an order from Justice Gail Welsh</i> 2187 01:19:47,992 --> 01:19:51,078 <i>Shirley Turner was released on bail again,</i> 2188 01:19:51,161 --> 01:19:53,706 <i>and we went numb again,</i> 2189 01:19:53,789 --> 01:19:56,292 <i>and we had to give Zachary right back into the hands</i> 2190 01:19:56,375 --> 01:19:57,375 <i>of Andrew’s killer.</i> 2191 01:19:57,418 --> 01:19:59,437 <i>[Kurt] There is no indication of a psychological disorder</i> 2192 01:19:59,461 --> 01:20:01,147 <i>that would give concern about potential harm</i> 2193 01:20:01,171 --> 01:20:02,089 <i>to the public generally.</i> 2194 01:20:02,172 --> 01:20:03,924 <i>Shirley’s last boyfriend before Andrew</i> 2195 01:20:04,008 --> 01:20:06,152 <i>told Pennsylvania police that Shirley attempted suicide</i> 2196 01:20:06,176 --> 01:20:08,056 <i>on his front doorstep after he broke up with her</i> 2197 01:20:08,137 --> 01:20:09,513 <i>and had threatened to kill him.</i> 2198 01:20:09,596 --> 01:20:11,366 <i>There is no indication of a psychological disorder</i> 2199 01:20:11,390 --> 01:20:13,076 <i>that would give concern about potential harm</i> 2200 01:20:13,100 --> 01:20:14,018 <i>to the public generally.</i> 2201 01:20:14,101 --> 01:20:15,787 <i>Eight people had restraining orders against her.</i> 2202 01:20:15,811 --> 01:20:17,855 <i>There is no indication of a psychological disorder</i> 2203 01:20:17,938 --> 01:20:19,582 <i>that would give concern about potential harm</i> 2204 01:20:19,606 --> 01:20:20,524 <i>to the public generally.</i> 2205 01:20:20,607 --> 01:20:22,294 <i>If any one had bothered to check the jail records</i> 2206 01:20:22,318 --> 01:20:24,045 <i>during her two-month stay, the prison psychiatrist</i> 2207 01:20:24,069 --> 01:20:26,030 <i>put her on suicide watch every 15 minutes.</i> 2208 01:20:26,113 --> 01:20:28,300 <i>She was incredibly disruptive and even threatened to stab</i> 2209 01:20:28,324 --> 01:20:29,450 <i>another inmate with a fork.</i> 2210 01:20:29,533 --> 01:20:31,493 <i>There is no indication of a psychological disorder</i> 2211 01:20:31,535 --> 01:20:33,096 <i>that would give concern about potential harm</i> 2212 01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:34,121 <i>to the public generally.</i> 2213 01:20:34,204 --> 01:20:36,957 <i>As her crime, while violent, was specific in nature-</i> 2214 01:20:37,041 --> 01:20:38,768 <i>The man she was terrorizing called the police</i> 2215 01:20:38,792 --> 01:20:40,270 <i>and reported Shirley, but because he didn't</i> 2216 01:20:40,294 --> 01:20:42,046 <i>leave his name, no one took any action.</i> 2217 01:20:42,129 --> 01:20:44,631 <i>As her crime, while violent, was specific in nature-</i> 2218 01:20:44,715 --> 01:20:46,484 <i>[David] Andrew rejected her and she killed him.</i> 2219 01:20:46,508 --> 01:20:48,302 Zachary rejected her. 2220 01:20:48,385 --> 01:20:49,385 Paid the price, too. 2221 01:20:49,428 --> 01:20:51,930 <i>[Kurt] As her crime, while violent, was specific in nature-</i> 2222 01:20:52,014 --> 01:20:53,575 <i>[woman] Of course, the crime was specific.</i> 2223 01:20:53,599 --> 01:20:55,476 <i>She didn’t shoot into a crowd of people.</i> 2224 01:20:55,559 --> 01:20:57,102 <i>[David] We could not conceive how</i> 2225 01:20:57,186 --> 01:21:00,773 <i>they could let a probable premeditated murderer...</i> 2226 01:21:00,856 --> 01:21:04,193 <i>probable premeditated murderer walk the streets.</i> 2227 01:21:04,276 --> 01:21:05,670 <i>[Kurt] Dr. Turner's detention is not</i> 2228 01:21:05,694 --> 01:21:07,029 <i>necessary in the public interest.</i> 2229 01:21:07,112 --> 01:21:08,781 Who the hell is the system protecting? 2230 01:21:08,864 --> 01:21:10,008 <i>[Kurt] Dr. Turner's detention is not</i> 2231 01:21:10,032 --> 01:21:11,492 <i>necessary in the public interest.</i> 2232 01:21:11,575 --> 01:21:13,994 And we waited and we waited and we waited 2233 01:21:14,078 --> 01:21:16,497 for the authorities to do their job 2234 01:21:16,580 --> 01:21:18,374 and lock her up! 2235 01:21:18,457 --> 01:21:20,584 You got a dead body with five holes in it 2236 01:21:20,667 --> 01:21:21,794 and it means nothing. 2237 01:21:21,877 --> 01:21:24,004 <i>Under an order from Justice Gail Welsh.</i> 2238 01:21:24,088 --> 01:21:25,398 <i>[over phone] Good afternoon, Court of Appeals.</i> 2239 01:21:25,422 --> 01:21:26,775 Hi, may please speak to Judge Welsh, please? 2240 01:21:26,799 --> 01:21:28,026 <i>[woman] Is she expecting your call?</i> 2241 01:21:28,050 --> 01:21:29,343 Uh, probably not, no. 2242 01:21:29,426 --> 01:21:30,886 And now, we got a second dead body 2243 01:21:30,969 --> 01:21:32,113 that couldn't breathe through water. 2244 01:21:32,137 --> 01:21:34,157 <i>[woman] I just spoke with Judge Welsh and she said no.</i> 2245 01:21:34,181 --> 01:21:35,533 <i>She said no, so I just wanted to let you know.</i> 2246 01:21:35,557 --> 01:21:37,243 <i>[Kurt] Dr. Turner's detention is not necessary</i> 2247 01:21:37,267 --> 01:21:38,394 <i>in the public interest.</i> 2248 01:21:38,477 --> 01:21:40,396 <i>♪ Dramatic music ♪</i> 2249 01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:41,313 - [gunshot] - [Andrew] [screams] 2250 01:21:41,397 --> 01:21:45,609 [gunshots] 2251 01:21:46,735 --> 01:21:48,320 [car engine starts] 2252 01:21:48,404 --> 01:21:50,656 [car screeches away] 2253 01:21:53,826 --> 01:21:55,661 [birds chirping] 2254 01:21:55,744 --> 01:21:57,329 <i>[David] She had to be stopped,</i> 2255 01:21:57,413 --> 01:21:59,790 <i>the people who were supposed to stop her didn't,</i> 2256 01:22:00,249 --> 01:22:01,583 <i>and she got to kill again.</i> 2257 01:22:03,293 --> 01:22:04,586 <i>And I'm gong to do my damnedest</i> 2258 01:22:04,670 --> 01:22:06,439 <i>to see if I can make them him change the way they-</i> 2259 01:22:06,463 --> 01:22:08,215 <i>they deal with killers.</i> 2260 01:22:08,298 --> 01:22:09,091 <i>[Kurt] And with that,</i> 2261 01:22:09,174 --> 01:22:11,135 <i>your grandma and grandpa became activists.</i> 2262 01:22:11,218 --> 01:22:12,428 We victims- 2263 01:22:12,511 --> 01:22:14,012 <i>[David] We want, number one,</i> 2264 01:22:14,096 --> 01:22:16,348 <i>the whole truth public</i> 2265 01:22:16,432 --> 01:22:17,808 <i>about why Zachary died.</i> 2266 01:22:17,891 --> 01:22:20,060 <i>They've developed a, uh, program,</i> 2267 01:22:20,144 --> 01:22:22,271 a support group for people who've had 2268 01:22:22,354 --> 01:22:23,730 a death through, uh, you know, 2269 01:22:23,814 --> 01:22:24,648 violent death. 2270 01:22:24,731 --> 01:22:26,608 [woman] Welcome to our first, uh, 2271 01:22:26,692 --> 01:22:28,861 <i>Victims of Homicide Annual Vigil.</i> 2272 01:22:28,944 --> 01:22:31,071 <i>[Kate] In this last year, I've just taken training</i> 2273 01:22:31,155 --> 01:22:33,198 <i>to become a child advocate</i> 2274 01:22:33,282 --> 01:22:35,325 <i>in the dependency court system.</i> 2275 01:22:35,409 --> 01:22:37,286 <i>[man] Jean Doucet, the psychiatrist who posted</i> 2276 01:22:37,369 --> 01:22:40,497 <i>$65, 000 bail for Mrs. Turner</i> 2277 01:22:40,581 --> 01:22:42,708 <i>was found guilty of professional misconduct.</i> 2278 01:22:42,791 --> 01:22:44,376 <i>[woman] It was David Bagby and his wife</i> 2279 01:22:44,460 --> 01:22:46,378 <i>who launched the complaint against Doucet</i> 2280 01:22:46,462 --> 01:22:48,380 <i>The three-person panel ordered Doucet</i> 2281 01:22:48,464 --> 01:22:50,340 <i>to undergo psychiatric counseling.</i> 2282 01:22:50,424 --> 01:22:52,610 <i>[Jackie] There was a lot of sympathy for David and Kate.</i> 2283 01:22:52,634 --> 01:22:54,678 I think it got them at least a result 2284 01:22:54,761 --> 01:22:56,614 that did they-that they were hoping to accomplish. 2285 01:22:56,638 --> 01:22:58,307 Mr. Wick, child and youth advocate 2286 01:22:58,390 --> 01:22:59,600 for Newfoundland Labrador 2287 01:22:59,683 --> 01:23:01,435 <i>is doing a child death review,</i> 2288 01:23:01,518 --> 01:23:03,437 <i>which is a formal investigation.</i> 2289 01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:05,647 <i>And the output of it is a report</i> 2290 01:23:05,731 --> 01:23:07,483 <i>saying "Here's why that baby died,"</i> 2291 01:23:07,566 --> 01:23:09,776 <i>and recommendations for changes</i> 2292 01:23:09,860 --> 01:23:11,278 <i>to cut the chance of that happening</i> 2293 01:23:11,361 --> 01:23:12,279 <i>in the future.</i> 2294 01:23:12,362 --> 01:23:13,739 Obviously- [laughs] 2295 01:23:13,822 --> 01:23:15,699 once that's done, then we would like to see 2296 01:23:15,782 --> 01:23:18,327 that go to whatever legislative bodies 2297 01:23:18,410 --> 01:23:20,746 either provincial or fed era I 2298 01:23:20,829 --> 01:23:23,916 can write laws to make these recommendations real. 2299 01:23:27,336 --> 01:23:29,463 <i>[woman] And a report into the death of Zachary Turner</i> 2300 01:23:29,546 --> 01:23:31,340 <i>will be released in Newfoundland.</i> 2301 01:23:31,423 --> 01:23:32,883 <i>He was drowned by his mother.</i> 2302 01:23:32,966 --> 01:23:34,569 <i>[Kurt] Your grandma was temporarily injured in a fall</i> 2303 01:23:34,593 --> 01:23:36,220 <i>and couldn't make the trip.</i> 2304 01:23:36,303 --> 01:23:37,846 <i>So your grandpa and I came alone.</i> 2305 01:23:37,930 --> 01:23:39,782 <i>[Darlene] Dr. Marcus Stein conducted an exhaustive</i> 2306 01:23:39,806 --> 01:23:42,726 <i>investigation over a 15-month period.</i> 2307 01:23:42,809 --> 01:23:44,937 <i>He reached two key conclusions:</i> 2308 01:23:45,020 --> 01:23:47,773 one, Zachary Turner's death was preventable, 2309 01:23:47,856 --> 01:23:50,359 and two, Zachary was in his mother's care 2310 01:23:50,442 --> 01:23:51,602 when he should not have been. 2311 01:23:51,652 --> 01:23:53,612 The government has received a scathing report 2312 01:23:53,695 --> 01:23:56,156 <i>that concluded the child protection system</i> 2313 01:23:56,240 --> 01:23:57,491 <i>failed Zachary Turner.</i> 2314 01:23:57,574 --> 01:23:59,493 A serious lack of judgment 2315 01:23:59,576 --> 01:24:00,827 <i>at the senior management level.</i> 2316 01:24:00,911 --> 01:24:03,539 <i>Substandard child protection practices</i> 2317 01:24:03,622 --> 01:24:04,641 <i>contributed to the outcomes.</i> 2318 01:24:04,665 --> 01:24:05,892 <i>[man] There are 58 recommendations</i> 2319 01:24:05,916 --> 01:24:07,167 <i>- in the report. - I am announcing</i> 2320 01:24:07,251 --> 01:24:08,585 our action plan. 2321 01:24:08,669 --> 01:24:11,004 <i>We will develop policy specific to children</i> 2322 01:24:11,088 --> 01:24:13,423 <i>whose parents are charged with a violent crime.</i> 2323 01:24:13,507 --> 01:24:15,175 The part I was most interested in, 2324 01:24:15,259 --> 01:24:16,802 as I said, is bail. 2325 01:24:16,885 --> 01:24:18,428 Why was Dr. Shirley Turner 2326 01:24:18,512 --> 01:24:20,389 granted judicial interim release 2327 01:24:20,472 --> 01:24:22,057 commonly known as bail? 2328 01:24:22,891 --> 01:24:24,851 This is the one question that Dr. Marcus Stein 2329 01:24:24,935 --> 01:24:26,770 did not and could not answer. 2330 01:24:26,853 --> 01:24:28,540 [man] So that's still an open wound, if you would. 2331 01:24:28,564 --> 01:24:29,314 May I? 2332 01:24:29,398 --> 01:24:30,440 <i>He did say this:</i> 2333 01:24:30,524 --> 01:24:32,526 "Had Dr. Turner not been released on bail 2334 01:24:32,609 --> 01:24:34,820 <i>on 12 December, 2001,</i> 2335 01:24:34,903 --> 01:24:37,739 <i>or on 10 January, 2003,</i> 2336 01:24:37,823 --> 01:24:40,200 <i>my review would have been unnecessary,</i> 2337 01:24:40,284 --> 01:24:42,327 <i>Zachary would be alive today.</i> 2338 01:24:42,411 --> 01:24:44,538 I would like to see parliament pass a law 2339 01:24:44,621 --> 01:24:46,999 denying bail to people accused of murder. 2340 01:24:47,082 --> 01:24:48,959 <i>Put them on the fast track to get to trial</i> 2341 01:24:49,042 --> 01:24:50,627 and get on with it, get to the truth. 2342 01:24:50,711 --> 01:24:52,071 The only way I can see it changing 2343 01:24:52,129 --> 01:24:54,172 is for every citizen cares about this 2344 01:24:54,256 --> 01:24:57,175 to tell his MP that this law is stupid, change it. 2345 01:24:57,259 --> 01:24:59,219 And, of course, such a selfish thing to do. 2346 01:24:59,303 --> 01:25:00,971 She not only killed Andrew, 2347 01:25:01,054 --> 01:25:03,599 but she left three other children without a mother 2348 01:25:03,682 --> 01:25:05,684 <i>which is very sad for them.</i> 2349 01:25:05,767 --> 01:25:07,687 <i>[man] And what kind of regret does that give you?</i> 2350 01:25:08,395 --> 01:25:10,772 Well, if, uh, things were different, I guess... 2351 01:25:10,856 --> 01:25:12,441 it's possible he'd still be alive 2352 01:25:12,524 --> 01:25:14,109 and rather than... 2353 01:25:14,192 --> 01:25:16,445 memories of just one year... 2354 01:25:16,528 --> 01:25:18,739 it would be, um, a lot of years around. 2355 01:25:18,822 --> 01:25:20,091 <i>[man] Tough losing a little brother.</i> 2356 01:25:20,115 --> 01:25:21,450 <i>[TJ] Yeah, yeah definitely.</i> 2357 01:25:21,533 --> 01:25:23,293 <i>[David] Zachary should be right here with me.</i> 2358 01:25:23,702 --> 01:25:25,203 <i>He should be off gong to school now</i> 2359 01:25:25,287 --> 01:25:26,347 <i>getting ready to go to school.</i> 2360 01:25:26,371 --> 01:25:28,206 I'm going to continue to scream long and loud 2361 01:25:28,290 --> 01:25:30,083 about bail... 2362 01:25:30,167 --> 01:25:32,502 for someone accused of... 2363 01:25:32,586 --> 01:25:33,920 what Shirley did to my son. 2364 01:25:34,004 --> 01:25:35,130 [bang] 2365 01:25:44,931 --> 01:25:46,099 <i>♪ Acoustic fingerpicking ♪</i> 2366 01:25:46,183 --> 01:25:47,452 <i>[Kurt] I traveled the world for years</i> 2367 01:25:47,476 --> 01:25:49,144 looking for what was left of your dad. 2368 01:25:49,686 --> 01:25:50,913 <i>I'd made dozens of new friends.</i> 2369 01:25:50,937 --> 01:25:52,356 Dr. DeCucuillo has made the trek 2370 01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:53,607 out to California. 2371 01:25:53,690 --> 01:25:55,650 <i>But here was still one question I couldn't answer.</i> 2372 01:25:56,109 --> 01:25:57,653 <i>How would I know when I was done?</i> 2373 01:25:58,528 --> 01:25:59,797 <i>And what was I really looking for?</i> 2374 01:25:59,821 --> 01:26:02,616 <i>[Rick] Both as spirituality and as grief...</i> 2375 01:26:03,784 --> 01:26:05,827 to relocation of the other person is essential. 2376 01:26:05,911 --> 01:26:06,703 <i>[Janice] It's interesting you should ask that.</i> 2377 01:26:06,787 --> 01:26:08,163 <i>My first response was</i> 2378 01:26:08,246 --> 01:26:09,665 <i>"That's not a person."</i> 2379 01:26:09,748 --> 01:26:11,625 <i>That is simply a mass of...</i> 2380 01:26:11,708 --> 01:26:13,418 tissue and protein and... 2381 01:26:13,502 --> 01:26:15,253 fat and water and- 2382 01:26:15,337 --> 01:26:16,588 something leaves the body... 2383 01:26:17,130 --> 01:26:18,173 when death occurs. 2384 01:26:18,256 --> 01:26:19,132 <i>[Kurt] What was I trying to find?</i> 2385 01:26:19,216 --> 01:26:20,234 <i>[Rick] To resolve our grief,</i> 2386 01:26:20,258 --> 01:26:21,677 <i>we have to be able to</i> 2387 01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:24,096 <i>accept the reality of that loss-</i> 2388 01:26:24,179 --> 01:26:25,239 Who's interviewing you, Kurt? 2389 01:26:25,263 --> 01:26:26,682 <i>Get our questions answered</i> 2390 01:26:26,765 --> 01:26:28,850 to the extent that they can be and to... 2391 01:26:28,934 --> 01:26:31,144 basically surrender to the things 2392 01:26:31,228 --> 01:26:33,188 <i>that we can't have answered.</i> 2393 01:26:33,271 --> 01:26:34,666 <i>[Kurt] And how would I know when I'd found it?</i> 2394 01:26:34,690 --> 01:26:36,692 I appreciate you doing this for him. 2395 01:26:36,775 --> 01:26:38,568 'Cause I know he talked about you a lot. 2396 01:26:38,652 --> 01:26:40,028 He'd talk about you. 2397 01:26:40,112 --> 01:26:41,154 - [Kurt] Really? - Mm-hm. 2398 01:26:42,781 --> 01:26:44,825 Well, then you're not a good movie maker, huh? 2399 01:26:44,908 --> 01:26:46,535 [laughter] 2400 01:26:48,453 --> 01:26:49,555 'Cause hat's what he always told me. 2401 01:26:49,579 --> 01:26:50,914 I know he-I know he loved you. 2402 01:26:50,997 --> 01:26:54,209 <i>[Rick] And then to be able to continue to live...</i> 2403 01:26:54,292 --> 01:26:55,836 <i>remembering the person.</i> 2404 01:26:56,378 --> 01:26:57,738 To be able to remember their life, 2405 01:26:57,796 --> 01:26:58,922 <i>not only their death.</i> 2406 01:26:59,005 --> 01:27:00,090 No, no, no. 2407 01:27:00,173 --> 01:27:01,466 I can feel it, it's not far off. 2408 01:27:02,008 --> 01:27:03,093 It's too late. 2409 01:27:03,593 --> 01:27:05,804 <i>[Kurt] I didn’t want to stop making this movie.</i> 2410 01:27:05,887 --> 01:27:08,087 <i>That would mean I'd learned everything there was to know</i> 2411 01:27:08,140 --> 01:27:09,808 <i>and finished my one last movie with him.</i> 2412 01:27:09,891 --> 01:27:11,518 <i>[Rick] Earl Groneman, again, says</i> 2413 01:27:11,601 --> 01:27:14,813 "Grief is love's unwillingness to let go." 2414 01:27:14,896 --> 01:27:16,082 <i>[Danette] He doesn't like to wave goodbye.</i> 2415 01:27:16,106 --> 01:27:17,232 I'll miss you. 2416 01:27:17,691 --> 01:27:20,068 <i>♪ Sentimental music ♪</i> 2417 01:27:24,406 --> 01:27:25,949 <i>♪ emotional music ♪</i> 2418 01:27:26,032 --> 01:27:27,993 [Kurt] <i>One more time. And action.</i> 2419 01:27:28,076 --> 01:27:30,954 It is my brother that got married here tonight. 2420 01:27:31,037 --> 01:27:32,622 <i>[Kurt] One more time. And action.</i> 2421 01:27:32,706 --> 01:27:34,166 This is your Uncle Kurt. 2422 01:27:34,249 --> 01:27:35,249 [woman] Aww! 2423 01:27:35,709 --> 01:27:36,460 <i>[Kurt] One more time.</i> 2424 01:27:36,543 --> 01:27:37,544 <i>And action.</i> 2425 01:27:38,003 --> 01:27:40,589 <i>[applause]</i> 2426 01:27:42,132 --> 01:27:42,883 <i>[Rick] And the person says,</i> 2427 01:27:42,966 --> 01:27:45,761 <i>"life will never be the same again, will it?"</i> 2428 01:27:46,511 --> 01:27:49,264 They now know where they are 2429 01:27:49,347 --> 01:27:51,475 and what's involved in moving forward. 2430 01:27:51,558 --> 01:27:52,434 <i>[Kurt] There were so many stories</i> 2431 01:27:52,517 --> 01:27:53,643 <i>I wanted to tell you.</i> 2432 01:27:54,686 --> 01:27:56,354 <i>And somewhere, I hope you're watching.</i> 2433 01:27:57,731 --> 01:27:59,891 <i>I almost gave up making this film when you were killed.</i> 2434 01:28:00,650 --> 01:28:02,110 <i>I couldn't see the point anymore.</i> 2435 01:28:03,195 --> 01:28:04,821 <i>But something kept me gong.</i> 2436 01:28:05,655 --> 01:28:07,324 <i>And then one day, I realized what it was.</i> 2437 01:28:09,034 --> 01:28:10,869 <i>This film was no longer a letter to you.</i> 2438 01:28:12,412 --> 01:28:13,806 <i>It was now a letter to someone else.</i> 2439 01:28:13,830 --> 01:28:16,333 <i>[David] We thought we'd go get Andrew and...</i> 2440 01:28:16,416 --> 01:28:17,727 get everything organized, whatever, 2441 01:28:17,751 --> 01:28:19,127 and then kill ourselves, because 2442 01:28:19,211 --> 01:28:20,897 - no point going on. - [Clark] Everybody always says, 2443 01:28:20,921 --> 01:28:21,939 <i>"Well what would be the difference</i> 2444 01:28:21,963 --> 01:28:23,715 <i>if one person weren't alive?"</i> 2445 01:28:23,799 --> 01:28:26,301 You've still got a hell of a lot to live for... 2446 01:28:26,384 --> 01:28:28,470 and you still got a lot of friends 2447 01:28:28,553 --> 01:28:30,263 and a lot of family 2448 01:28:30,347 --> 01:28:32,516 who love you very, very much. 2449 01:28:32,599 --> 01:28:34,935 <i>[Heather] You are the most amazing-</i> 2450 01:28:35,018 --> 01:28:35,894 I love both of you. 2451 01:28:35,977 --> 01:28:38,647 And the strongest people I've ever known. 2452 01:28:38,730 --> 01:28:39,957 - I love you guys. - I love them very much. 2453 01:28:39,981 --> 01:28:41,066 I love them very much. 2454 01:28:41,149 --> 01:28:42,275 I love them very much. 2455 01:28:42,359 --> 01:28:43,902 Now, how am I gonna do this without... 2456 01:28:43,985 --> 01:28:45,028 - weeping? - I admire you 2457 01:28:45,111 --> 01:28:46,231 and respect you so much for- 2458 01:28:46,279 --> 01:28:47,030 for two things: 2459 01:28:47,113 --> 01:28:49,241 <i>one, for such a wonderful young man that you raised-</i> 2460 01:28:49,324 --> 01:28:50,242 <i>[woman] Doesn't matter what happened.</i> 2461 01:28:50,325 --> 01:28:51,952 <i>They raised a wonderful man.</i> 2462 01:28:52,035 --> 01:28:53,513 Thanks for bringing such a wonderful person 2463 01:28:53,537 --> 01:28:55,348 - into the world. - You know, Andrew contributed 2464 01:28:55,372 --> 01:28:57,249 <i>a lot to me as far as</i> 2465 01:28:57,332 --> 01:28:58,333 who I am today. 2466 01:28:58,416 --> 01:28:59,626 We won't forget their son. 2467 01:28:59,709 --> 01:29:01,086 <i>[man] And for having the strength</i> 2468 01:29:01,169 --> 01:29:02,729 <i>to make it through something like this.</i> 2469 01:29:02,796 --> 01:29:04,339 <i>[man] With what you've been through</i> 2470 01:29:04,422 --> 01:29:06,424 <i>to still be carrying on,</i> 2471 01:29:06,508 --> 01:29:09,135 <i>still to hold your heads up and keep gong</i> 2472 01:29:09,219 --> 01:29:12,597 <i>and pushing forward is amazing.</i> 2473 01:29:12,681 --> 01:29:13,825 <i>[man] They've done it in such a way</i> 2474 01:29:13,849 --> 01:29:15,201 <i>that it makes you proud to know them</i> 2475 01:29:15,225 --> 01:29:16,265 <i>and to be related to them.</i> 2476 01:29:16,309 --> 01:29:18,353 I think God put some people down on Earth 2477 01:29:18,436 --> 01:29:20,438 <i>just to be examples for the rest of us.</i> 2478 01:29:20,522 --> 01:29:23,316 You are two very, very special people. 2479 01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:25,735 <i>There's few things in my life that have had an effect on me</i> 2480 01:29:25,819 --> 01:29:26,903 <i>like those two people.</i> 2481 01:29:26,987 --> 01:29:28,989 I don't know how else-I love them. 2482 01:29:29,072 --> 01:29:30,490 -We love you and- -We love them and- 2483 01:29:30,574 --> 01:29:31,449 We're always thinking of you. 2484 01:29:31,533 --> 01:29:33,326 And I think about them daily. 2485 01:29:33,410 --> 01:29:35,137 My thoughts are never far from either of you. 2486 01:29:35,161 --> 01:29:36,371 I love them and pray for them. 2487 01:29:36,454 --> 01:29:38,123 God's blessings on them both. 2488 01:29:38,206 --> 01:29:39,749 Oh, they know I love them. 2489 01:29:39,833 --> 01:29:42,061 I feel very blessed, as I say, to be among their friends. 2490 01:29:42,085 --> 01:29:44,087 Well, I just thank them for being my friends 2491 01:29:44,170 --> 01:29:45,755 <i>for 30-odd years.</i> 2492 01:29:45,839 --> 01:29:48,300 We are very lucky to have them as our neighbors 2493 01:29:48,383 --> 01:29:49,301 <i>and our true friend.</i> 2494 01:29:49,384 --> 01:29:51,219 God bless you guys and call me. 2495 01:29:51,303 --> 01:29:53,346 It does- [laughs] 2496 01:29:53,430 --> 01:29:55,849 as one of Andrew's very good friends told us 2497 01:29:55,932 --> 01:29:57,309 very soon after he was murdered, 2498 01:29:57,392 --> 01:29:58,810 We still have children. 2499 01:30:00,645 --> 01:30:02,230 <i>Kurt, Matt, and Chris...</i> 2500 01:30:02,689 --> 01:30:03,732 <i>on down the list.</i> 2501 01:30:03,815 --> 01:30:05,418 I feel like I got lucky in life because... 2502 01:30:05,442 --> 01:30:06,735 they're another set of parents 2503 01:30:06,818 --> 01:30:09,821 <i>Kate and David were a big reason why I am</i> 2504 01:30:09,905 --> 01:30:11,197 the person that I am today. 2505 01:30:11,281 --> 01:30:12,699 We're all their kids. 2506 01:30:12,782 --> 01:30:14,200 I'll always be there for you guys. 2507 01:30:14,284 --> 01:30:15,535 I love you both dearly. 2508 01:30:15,619 --> 01:30:16,953 We all love you guys so much. 2509 01:30:17,037 --> 01:30:18,681 <i>[man] There's really nothing that I wouldn't do for them.</i> 2510 01:30:18,705 --> 01:30:20,624 <i>[boy] Do you feel better?</i> 2511 01:30:20,874 --> 01:30:22,375 <i>- Do you feel better? - [Jim] [laughs]</i> 2512 01:30:24,002 --> 01:30:25,086 Yeah. 2513 01:30:27,213 --> 01:30:28,441 Yeah, you made me feel better. 2514 01:30:28,465 --> 01:30:30,050 I know that no matter what, 2515 01:30:30,133 --> 01:30:34,763 you're going to find ways to continue to help people, 2516 01:30:34,846 --> 01:30:37,641 <i>because that's the type of people you are.</i> 2517 01:30:37,724 --> 01:30:38,558 <i>That's how good you are.</i> 2518 01:30:38,642 --> 01:30:40,393 I just hope that Dave and Kate 2519 01:30:40,477 --> 01:30:41,937 realize how much he loved them 2520 01:30:42,020 --> 01:30:44,314 <i>because just in the short period of time that I knew him,</i> 2521 01:30:44,397 --> 01:30:46,816 <i>that was the one truth that I knew to be absolute.</i> 2522 01:30:46,900 --> 01:30:49,569 <i>[Andrew] I'm glad I wasn't a rebellious youth,</i> 2523 01:30:49,653 --> 01:30:51,297 <i>because it would have been completely and utterly</i> 2524 01:30:51,321 --> 01:30:53,365 <i>fucking wasted on David and Kate Bagby.</i> 2525 01:30:53,448 --> 01:30:54,491 <i>Let me tell you.</i> 2526 01:30:54,574 --> 01:30:57,827 <i>I had my ear pierced for two weeks.</i> 2527 01:30:58,244 --> 01:30:59,913 <i>They never noticed.</i> 2528 01:30:59,996 --> 01:31:01,223 <i>I was finally sitting at the dinner table</i> 2529 01:31:01,247 --> 01:31:02,516 <i>and I was like- and I actually said to them</i> 2530 01:31:02,540 --> 01:31:04,459 <i>I'm like, "You know, Mom, Dad,</i> 2531 01:31:04,542 --> 01:31:06,628 <i>It's a good thing I'm not looking for attention,</i> 2532 01:31:06,711 --> 01:31:08,171 because hello!" 2533 01:31:08,254 --> 01:31:09,464 And so they have a look at it. 2534 01:31:09,547 --> 01:31:11,549 They're like, "Oh, that's nice." 2535 01:31:11,925 --> 01:31:13,677 <i>And I love you.</i> 2536 01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:16,471 <i>And I know you love me and, uh...</i> 2537 01:31:17,138 --> 01:31:19,975 <i>Yeah, I-I kind of need to move on from that</i> 2538 01:31:20,058 --> 01:31:21,267 <i>because I am a Bagby male.</i> 2539 01:31:21,351 --> 01:31:23,019 <i>We don't-we don't gush very much.</i> 2539 01:31:24,305 --> 01:32:24,741